Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tailisu10]

I say still have unlockable characters, but perhaps in-game cheats to easily unlock them right away. Same with stages and if applicable, items for multiplayer.Stuff like that. It's nice for tourneys.

With Pokken and Arms having this kind of feature, I hope that they'll consider it. it would be nice for when someone brings an unusable setup to tournaments due to essential stuff being locked.

...unless Sakurai still thinks that it will make the game be like Pokken and Arms. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Personally, I like unlocking stuff so I wouldn't use it.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Legitimate serious question to those saying unlockables can be secret and surprising? How did you play smash Wii u (or 3DS) did you just play blindly not knowing even how to unlock the characters?

I seriously mean this, because if you followed any Nintendo new or even YouTube that characters would have been spoiled. Also I can't phatom how you unlocked characters without knowing how.

Not arguing btw literally asking.

For the 3DS version, since it's primarily a single player game, I just played some different single player modes I think after a round or two in VS mode since completing single player modes always unlocked more stuff in general. I also worked my way through the challenge panels mostly.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Legitimate serious question to those saying unlockables can be secret and surprising? How did you play smash Wii u (or 3DS) did you just play blindly not knowing even how to unlock the characters?

I seriously mean this, because if you followed any Nintendo new or even YouTube that characters would have been spoiled. Also I can't phatom how you unlocked characters without knowing how.

Not arguing btw literally asking.

Every character can be unlocked by playing a certain number of Versus Matches.

I saw the leak for the 3DS Roster because I was curious if it was real and I wanted to know what characters WOULDN'T be in the game. I was okay with it and the surprise factor was still there, in a similar vein to when my brother brought home Action Replay and I got to see the full roster for Melee after first unlocking half the characters.

I'm going to avoid leaks this time if it's possible. Even if I have to make an alternate YouTube account. I'm just going to look up veterans separately to see if they return.

But, my expectations have become much more reasonable. I really had to know ahead of time if Dixie Kong and Mewtwo weren't going to be in Smash 4, instead of being told I unlocked all the characters without them ever appearing. But, now, I'm keeping it realistic. There's a lot of characters I don't expect to be guaranteed.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Every character can be unlocked by playing a certain number of Versus Matches.

I saw the leak for the 3DS Roster because I was curious if it was real and I wanted to know what characters WOULDN'T be in the game. I was okay with it and the surprise factor was still there, in a similar vein to when my brother brought home Action Replay and I got to see the full roster for Melee after first unlocking half the characters.

I'm going to avoid leaks this time if it's possible. Even if I have to make an alternate YouTube account. I'm just going to look up veterans separately to see if they return.

But, my expectations have become much more reasonable. I really had to know ahead of time if Dixie Kong and Mewtwo weren't going to be in Smash 4, instead of being told I unlocked all the characters without them ever appearing. But, now, I'm keeping it realistic. There's a lot of characters I don't expect to be guaranteed.

With the severe lack of news at the moment for Smash 5, I'm actually now going to try to avoid most leaks and stuff like that when the game is much closer to releasing/when it's already released and I haven't gotten my hands on it yet. I'm actually enjoying this silence at the moment as it's really helping to build up anticipation and hype for when we get more info.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm not playing games like Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, etc to unlock things. I'm playing them to sit down with some friends, goof off and have a good time.

There is legit no reason for a multi-player game to have characters as unlockables in this day and age. The reason to play a multi-player game is already stated in it's game type. You're playing it to play with multiple people. You don't need any extra incentive really.

Even though everyone is available right off the bat, you still have to unlock vehicle parts in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, which especially includes most of Mario Kart 8's DLC parts (all of which were available to use right away upon purchasing the DLC).

 

[Roberk]

Unlockable has never meant low priority. Wario was planned to be in Melee, but didn't quite make the cut because of time constraints, and was one of the first revealed newcomers in Brawl. That does not say low priority in the slightest. Besides, why would Wario of all characters be considered low priority? He's a very well known character in general and is one of the "main 8" of Mario characters (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Toad, Bowser, Wario and DK) that's in every multiplayer Mario spin-off game since Mario Kart 64. It'd be outright shocking to see him not in Smash Bros.

Low priority in Smash 4. If you look at the list of character bins in Smash 4 it shows the various bins of data for characters. These are mainly sorted in order of importance with some of the last slots including clones, Jigglypuff, and unfortunately Wario. Sakurai said clones were a “last-minute thing”, putting them last. He also said that Jigglypuff has been considered to be cut for every new installment past 64, hence her being next to last to the clones.

Wario wasn’t a “quick, we have some time throw in this character/this character is an important veteran so keep them” low priority, and as you said was considered for Melee and marketed for Brawl. He was a “we’re bringing back veterans but we are bringing back most everybody else first” low priority.

If Wario is being considered as a part of the Mario series here, he has to compete with the mascots of other franchises who have much more priority as MCs compared to Wario who’s a side character in Mario. However, he’s not intended as a Mario rep, he’s a Warioware rep. Warioware is probably less prioritized than the likes of Pokemon, just a hunch. Both options don’t play out well for Wario.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

With the severe lack of news at the moment for Smash 5, I'm actually now going to try to avoid most leaks and stuff like that when the game is much closer to releasing/when it's already released and I haven't gotten my hands on it yet. I'm actually enjoying this silence at the moment as it's really helping to build up anticipation and hype for when we get more info.

Yeah the fact that it's coming out THIS YEAR and nobody's leaked anything yet gives me confidence that I can make it to release date before something sneaks up on me and turns me to a pillar of salt.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Even though everyone is available right off the bat, you still have to unlock vehicle parts in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, which especially includes most of Mario Kart 8's DLC parts (all of which were available to use right away upon purchasing the DLC).

That's not characters though. That's the type of stuff that should be lock in modern day multiplayer games.

Not characters, but I've said my piece. And not even just from my own perspective but from the prespective of multiple people I've encountered online and off.

No one wants to have to work for a character in a fighting game or multiplayer game, especially if they end up not enjoying playing as that person. It just feels like you wasted your time.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Not characters, but I've said my piece. And not even just from my own perspective but from the prespective of multiple people I've encountered online and off.

Okay, just because you find a bunch of people who agree with you, doesn't mean you're right. It just makes you a vocal minority. And if you're the majority, good for you. But, we don't have any concrete statistics here so maybe the best course of action is compromise. Which is exactly what Super Smash Bros. for Wii U is. It compromises for people who don't wanna unlock EVERY single character when they know they are in the game, and people who don't spoil themselves with leaks and actually want to discover things.

Game designers don't just listen to people who complain, just because there are a lot of them. They have to take into consideration that people actually LIKE what they are doing.

No one wants to have to work for a character in a fighting game or multiplayer game

I mean you just talked to several people here that do. This is what I'm talking about when people come on here and act like their own preferences should take priority over everyone else, and think if anyone agrees with them then that means its justified. Just like the guy who hates Bayonetta, you're only seeing things from YOUR perspective.

Some people don't have your perspective. That's why you're here having this discussion in the first place.

especially if they end up not enjoying playing as that person. It just feels like you wasted your time.

Again. Did it ever occur to you that other people don't feel the same way?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That's not characters though. That's the type of stuff that should be lock in modern day multiplayer games.

Not characters, but I've said my piece. And not even just from my own perspective but from the prespective of multiple people I've encountered online and off.

No one wants to have to work for a character in a fighting game or multiplayer game, especially if they end up not enjoying playing as that person. It just feels like you wasted your time.

If there are no unlockable characters though, then there's practically no purpose of having a solo mode. Super Smash Bros. is not all just about multiplayer madness, and some treats actually do require you to complete the solo game modes (such as Xerneas, whom will never appear unless you've completed a Trophy Rush challenge in Smash Wii U).

 

[Chandeelure]

No one wants to have to work for a character in a fighting game or multiplayer game, especially if they end up not enjoying playing as that person. It just feels like you wasted your time.

I want :^ )

I like unlocking things.
Makes the characters feel special, idk.

 

[CAUP]

Okay I'm calling it now. I think a character from Mario Kart is going to get in, like Shy Guy or Lakitu. The character will ride a kart and throw shells and bananas and stuff like that. I think this is going to be Sakurai's wacky character, or one of them.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Low priority in Smash 4. If you look at the list of character bins in Smash 4 it shows the various bins of data for characters. These are mainly sorted in order of importance with some of the last slots including clones, Jigglypuff, and unfortunately Wario. Sakurai said clones were a “last-minute thing”, putting them last. He also said that Jigglypuff has been considered to be cut for every new installment past 64, hence her being next to last to the clones.

Wario wasn’t a “quick, we have some time throw in this character/this character is an important veteran so keep them” low priority, and as you said was considered for Melee and marketed for Brawl. He was a “we’re bringing back veterans but we are bringing back most everybody else first” low priority.

If Wario is being considered as a part of the Mario series here, he has to compete with the mascots of other franchises who have much more priority as MCs compared to Wario who’s a side character in Mario. However, he’s not intended as a Mario rep, he’s a Warioware rep. Warioware is probably less prioritized than the likes of Pokemon, just a hunch. Both options don’t play out well for Wario.

The order of the characters in Smash 4's files aren't in order of importance/priority. It's obviously in the order of what Smash Bros. games they debuted in, then clones, then 3DS unlockables, then DLC.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If there are no unlockable characters though, then there's practically no purpose of having a solo mode. Super Smash Bros. is not all just about multiplayer madness, and some treats actually do require you to complete the solo game modes (such as Xerneas, whom will never appear unless you've completed a Trophy Rush challenge in Smash Wii U).

I hate to say it because I love what Sakurai has given us with Super Smash Bros for Wii U, but dang, Super Smash Bros is pretty boring when there's no decent single player modes. I mean some people don't have friends to play with and online matches lose their appeal.

When all you have is Free-for-All against CPU's, there's just really no point other than the appeal of "Yeah, I'm playing as my favorite Nintendo character".

 

[Cosmic77]

Reading this thread makes me realize how desperate we are for more Smash news.

Oh, what I would do get a picture of Smash Switch Luigi's nose right now...

 

[-crump-]

Okay I'm calling it now. I think a character from Mario Kart is going to get in, like Shy Guy or Lakitu. The character will ride a kart and throw shells and bananas and stuff like that. I think this is going to be Sakurai's wacky character, or one of them.

Only problem is, most of the items from Mario Kart already appear as standard items in Smash. This isn’t a completely outlandish idea, but I doubt Sakurai would want to base a moveset around things that are already capable of being used by every character on the roster; uniqueness is kind of his MO, after all.

Personally, I’d rather just see all of the elements from Mario spin-offs combine into one perfect being...

That being will be called Waluigi.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Okay I'm calling it now. I think a character from Mario Kart is going to get in, like Shy Guy or Lakitu. The character will ride a kart and throw shells and bananas and stuff like that. I think this is going to be Sakurai's wacky character, or one of them.

Poor Sakurai. Please don't sell him short like that. He's much more creative and strategic than that. He doesn't just pick an obsolete character out of a hat and put them in a Go Kart. I wouldn't worry about "calling" that.

But, Lakitu would be a cool Mario Kart rep. Hmm... If you gave his cloud the ability to spawn wheels, engines, and a steering wheel, that would be a really neat idea.

 

[monadoboy]

And you have to think of kids of this generation growing up with these games.

If Mr. Game & Watch is available from the start, the reaction is gonna be "What the **** is this guy, I don't know who that is."

When you unlock him and the silhouette appears it's like "Ooo! Who's this guy?"

Unlocking a character along with their stage, music, content, etc, serves as a way to educate the player of that character's history, and intrigue them enough to read the trophy description and game appearances.

The fact that the character is unlockable implies there is something obscure about them that differentiates them from the commonly known characters. The same goes for clones, where making them unlockable establishes that they are extras.

I will NEVER forget unlocking Marth for the first time. Back in those days I was just a simple kid obsessed with Link and Future Trunks, thinking how cool swords where, and then comes this mysterious fast swordsman with nice hair and a cool cape. I was awestruck. Then comes one with a fire sword and I lost my mind. I think to this day that surprise is part of why I love FE so much.

 

[92MilesPrower]

A Kart driving character wouldn't be too outlandish with Bowser Jr. piloting the Junior Clown Car around. He even has a move that turns the Car into a Kart to ram into opponents. Plus, as mentioned before, you've got a bunch of the items from MK already in Smash as items: Lightning, Green and Blue Shells, Bananas, etc.

 

[Chandeelure]

I remember I won 15 Minutes Multi Man Melee to unlock Falco and then I lost the fight against him lol.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I hate to say it because I love what Sakurai has given us with Super Smash Bros for Wii U, but dang, Super Smash Bros is pretty boring when there's no decent single player modes. I mean some people don't have friends to play with and online matches lose their appeal.

When all you have is Free-for-All against CPU's, there's just really no point other than the appeal of "Yeah, I'm playing as my favorite Nintendo character".

I was pretty disappointed with the single player options for 3DS and Wii U. Smash Tour was a joke, and the Orders honestly felt like filler to me. The only passable single modes were Classic mode (which they botched pretty bad in these games, moreso in the Wii U), and All-Star mode. I personally felt Smash Run was a good step in the right direction, but I'd like to see that expanded.

Everyone has different experiences. And the single player aspect was something I grew up in that was lost for me in Smash 4. I felt that this past game tried to just add in so many little single player experiences without fleshing them out appropriately. Quantity =/= Quality, I guess.

Give us a stronger Classic Mode, Break the Targets again as well as those other contests, some kind of single/co-op mode like an Adventure Mode or even a better Smash Run, tie it up with All-Star and call it a day.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I was pretty disappointed with the single player options for 3DS and Wii U. Smash Tour was a joke, and the Orders honestly felt like filler to me. The only passable single modes were Classic mode (which they botched pretty bad in these games, moreso in the Wii U), and All-Star mode. I personally felt Smash Run was a good step in the right direction, but I'd like to see that expanded.

Everyone has different experiences. And the single player aspect was something I grew up in that was lost for me in Smash 4. I felt that this past game tried to just add in so many little single player experiences without fleshing them out appropriately. Quantity =/= Quality, I guess.

Give us a stronger Classic Mode, Break the Targets again as well as those other contests, some kind of single/co-op mode like an Adventure Mode or even a better Smash Run, tie it up with All-Star and call it a day.

Adventure Mode is an important one too. Smash is known for being a fighter that is also a platformer. That's where Break The Targets and Board The PLATFORMS comes in.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I remember I won 15 Minutes Multi Man Melee to unlock Falco and then I lost the fight against him lol.

DK's down special with the 100-man melee. That's how I always got Falco when I was 7 and playing Melee.

Adventure Mode is an important one too. Smash is known for being a fighter that is also a platformer.

Totally! But I do think they need to just buckle down on just a few things to add single player-wise in this game that are fleshed out and not a total chore. I felt Melee and Brawl excelled in that department, and should just be looked at for reference.

 

[Chandeelure]

DK's down special with the 100-man melee. That's how I always got Falco when I was 7 and playing Melee.

Yep, I did the same thing, and 9/10 times I lost because a Bob-omb exploded near me.

 

[CAUP]

You don't have to go through fifteen minutes of multi man melee to unlock falco lol

 

[TheLastJinjo]

DK's down special with the 100-man melee. That's how I always got Falco when I was 7 and playing Melee.

When you tryna use DK's Down Special to beat 100-man Melee:

 

[92MilesPrower]

I will NEVER forget unlocking Marth for the first time. Back in those days I was just a simple kid obsessed with Link and Future Trunks, thinking how cool swords where, and then comes this mysterious fast swordsman with nice hair and a cool cape. I was awestruck. Then comes one with a fire sword and I lost my mind. I think to this day that surprise is part of why I love FE so much.

Reminds me of how my friends and I sort of thought that Marth was a girl at first when Brawl first came out after unlocking him. We were like 10 or 11 years old. Thinking about it now, I kinda feel like I've come full circle with it with Lucina being in Smash Bros.

 

[Wyoming]

Yep, I did the same thing, and 9/10 times I lost because a Bob-omb exploded near me.

Aaargh how annoying that was. The only way to lose using that tactic.

 

[Chandeelure]

You don't have to go through fifteen minutes of multi man melee to unlock falco lol

Yeah, it was 100 Man Melee, the other was for Kongo Jungle 64, I think.

 

[RouffWestie]

I'd rather not have unlockable characters, but it's clear there still will be. I guess it's not awful since I can just do 1-stock suicides, but not having to waste that time would be nice. I will happily get my surprises from watching directs and following whatever updates come on the website.

Melee got the most surprises out of me because there were five with ?-icons on the screen, but then several more that didn't have any icons. It always made me suspect that there were still more characters I hadn't gotten yet.

 

[Chandeelure]

Yeah... I think I already had this conversation like 10 times already hahaha.

Give me news, Massive Hero Sack O' Rice!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

But I do think they need to just buckle down on just a few things to add single player-wise in this game that are fleshed out and not a total chore. I felt Melee and Brawl excelled in that department, and should just be looked at for reference.

Honestly, Melee's Classic was better than Brawl's, simply because of the randomness factor. Brawl was a step back, because it was not random; for example, you always had to face a Legend of Zelda fighter in stage 1.

Smash 3DS brought back the randomness factor that Melee was known for, but added difficulty routes so that you had the option to buff up or tone down the difficulty for the next stage if you feel that the set intensity is starting to get the better of you.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Just like the guy who hates Bayonetta, you're only seeing things from YOUR perspective.

Wait, am I "Guy who hates Bayonetta"?? I have so much more to offer than that

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Reading this thread makes me realize how desperate we are for more Smash news.

Oh, what I would do get a picture of Smash Switch Luigi's nose right now...

Naah, no thanks. Don't see a difference there with that and usual newsdroughts... such "jokey" posts were bit funny for a while, but later on felt more just extending the droughts for the sake of memes only.

Which reminds me, I rather really have Brawl Dojo-updates make a return to form instead. All of the news or updates were more comprehensible and focused kind of updates back than, rather than bits of information we had to go on deciphering from screenshots alone.

 

[Deleted member]

Unlockable characters? I have no problem with those.

Especially since they've been becoming more and more easier to obtain.
Like, remember when the VS. Match method was every 100 matches with 1000 being the highest (for Mr. Game & Watch)?

Now we're at our lowest with a 10th of that.

If playing 100 matches is such a big hassle despite there being challenges that require playing a certain number with a certain character that helps go toward that total and you'll be testing out the base roster anyway which can easily cover more than that, then I don't know what to say. :V

That being said, anyone who was a starter at any point shouldn't be made unlockable anymore.
Stop switching Ness around all the damn time and don't randomly make characters like Wario unlockable when it makes no sense.

 

[92MilesPrower]

On the topic of single player modes, even though it's very unlikely to happen, if a story mode were to be made again, there's plenty of characters that were in Smash 4 that I'd love to see interact with the veterans in different ways. For example, I'd love to see Lucario and Shulk fighting off a large horde of enemies, backing each other up perfectly with their Aura and Vision abilities respectively, only for Fox or Falco to fly in, gunning down a large chunk of enemies in their Arwing, and ejecting to help finish off the remaining crowd.

Any other pairings and groups you guys wanna see?

 

[Arcanir]

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New leak people, and it's from a person that I know pretty well on YouTube. It should be an interesting ride.

I'm not sure on him, but provided what he says is true, then as said before it's nothing to write home about. It's three characters everyone expects and a stage that everyone knows will be back in some form. Regardless of whether it's true or not, we don't get much out of it to really get excited for it.

Really, the most interesting part about what he's stating isn't Smash, but rather Pokémon. Between the general consensus being 'it's 2019' and Pokémon having a more limited presence at E3, I don't think anyone was expecting much from the franchise at the event. So if he's right, then that not only implies that they are aiming for a 2018 release as one of their big titles, but also that Nintendo/TCPi/GF are giving a lot more attention to it at the event then they have any other Pokémon game before it. It honestly gets me curious what they have in mind for that game if they're pushing it in that way.

 

[Freduardo]

After viewing some of the Zelda posts written last night, I remembered something that I've been meaning to ask this thread. So a lot of people are apparently pessimistic about the chances of a Zelda newcomer, right? I want to see where everyone's mindset is.

Order the following 10 characters from most likely to least likely, then give your rationale:

• Pig Ganon
• Young Link
• Impa
• Tingle
• Skull Kid
• Toon Zelda
• Midna (with or without Wolf Link)
• Girahim
• Lana
• Champions (Daruk/Revali/Mipha/Urbosa)

I know it's probably hard to order these characters, but just do your best and explain your order. You can be super vague with your answer and say something like "This is just what I expect," or you can get straight to the point and say "I think Sakurai would add Midna over everyone else". All that matters is that you explain your reasoning and rank the characters from the perspective of who you would expect to see, not who you would want.

None of us can really agree on who the next Zelda newcomer should be, so I want to see if we can at least create a general idea of which characters would be the most likely and who would be a pipe dream at best.

In case you're wondering, here's mine (biased as it is).

Champions > Midna > Toon Zelda > Impa > Tingle > Skull Kid > Young Link > Girahim > Lana > Pig Ganon

Mine’s going to be so biased I’m going to make it among 11 characters.

Midna > Skull Kid > Impa > Toon Zelda > Vaati > Pig Ganon > Champions > Tingle > Young Link > Ghirahim > Lana

 

[Danpal65]

On the topic of single player modes, even though it's very unlikely to happen, if a story mode were to be made again, there's plenty of characters that were in Smash 4 that I'd love to see interact with the veterans in different ways. For example, I'd love to see Lucario and Shulk fighting off a large horde of enemies, backing each other up perfectly with their Aura and Vision abilities respectively, only for Fox or Falco to fly in, gunning down a large chunk of enemies in their Arwing, and ejecting to help finish off the remaining crowd.

Any other pairings and groups you guys wanna see?

Pikachu and Samus have to team up again, they worked so well together!

Other than that it would be funny for Wii Fit and Wario to be paired up, mostly because Wii Fit would be disgusted by how unfit Wario is and just be attempting to get him to do some stretches or exercises across the campaign

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Pikachu and Samus have to team up again, they worked so well together!

Other than that it would be funny for Wii Fit and Wario to be paired up, mostly because Wii Fit would be disgusted by how unfit Wario is and just be attempting to get him to do some stretches or exercises across the campaign

Zero Suit Samus needs to team up with Bayonetta and roll her eyes at Bayonetta's cheekiness of the situation.