Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Also I think the relatively young age of video gaming as a whole (as well as how quickly it developed) plays a part. For example a 15 year old movie or book wouldn't be called a classic but that's because there over a century of media to pull from.

But there are also difference such as the fact that video games have generations to separate them so hm. Just thoughts from someone who doesn't want to think of the Game Cube as retro lol.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

It's more accurate to say he was modeled after Samus.

But otherwise yeah, Sakurai's visualization trumps all.

I don't think Falcon was ever based on Samus. If you are refering to Smash 64 that is.
I won't say that with 100% certanty, but I think he was just the scrapped design of Dragon King. If not, I'd like some sources on that.

 

[MysticKnives]

I don't think Falcon was ever based on Samus. If you are refering to Smash 64 that is.
I won't say that with 100% certanty, but I think he was just the scrapped design of Dragon King. If not, I'd like some sources on that.

Pretty sure it was stated Falcon, Ness, Luigi, and Puff all used assets from existing characters (Mario, Kirby, Samus)

 

[Kirby Dragons]

In Smash's case, I've considered retro characters, characters who didn't have a new game in their series in or after 2000.

This would make sure are all retros, while a character like isn't.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pretty sure it was stated Falcon, Ness, Luigi, and Puff all used assets from existing characters (Mario, Kirby, Samus)

To be honest, it's quite possible Falcon used assets from both anyway. But who knows.

I can't remember the article name, though.

 

[Lyndis_]

I'm super late, but it's always bugged me that people say R.O.B. isn't a video game character. Sure, they were a toy but they were also considered a main character of both Gyromite and Stack Up on the NES.

Stack up was released later, however Gyromite did not so it's basically just another title in the R.O.B. series. Meaning he has appeared in more games than Lucas. They're as much of a video game character as that weird Wii Balance Board in Wii Fit was.

There are no non video game characters in Smash.

 

[Freduardo]

Not gunna like, ever since I first played melee always wondered how this wasn't included as an Easter egg.

I should not have phrased that gameplay speculation and idea as a joke apparently, it got me a warning for the post.

So to make it better:

I think it would be cool if when Ice Climbers is played with twin Joy cons, that you could hit a button not used (or couple at once) to make it so you could hand one of your joy cons to a player not considered in the game and play 1.5 player style. (The nerf comes from how crappy their return is if they’re not together).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Now that I think about it, how would one player be able to properly play Smash Bros. with only one Joy-Con controller? You'd have less buttons to work with than if you were to use both Joy-Con controllers.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm super late, but it's always bugged me that people say R.O.B. isn't a video game character. Sure, they were a toy but they were also considered a main character of both Gyromite and Stack Up on the NES.

Stack up was released later, however Gyromite did not so it's basically just another title in the R.O.B. series. Meaning he has appeared in more games than Lucas. They're as much of a video game character as that weird Wii Balance Board in Wii Fit was.

There are no non video game characters in Smash.

People are talking debuts. R.O.B. definitely debuted as a toy first. But he was made for a game. Lucario debuted in a movie first. But was made for a game.

That's why "originating in a game" isn't really all that notable for Smash in itself. Because that isn't the point of a character option. They need to be essentially a character for a game. It's the reason why game-only characters in games based upon an anime are effectively the same as being an anime character. Licensing would stay the same. R.O.B. did not originate in a game no matter how you slice it. Doesn't mean he isn't overall a game character due to what he was designed to be. "Debuting" and "What they're meant for" is more important overall. There's few cases where they were not meant for a game but still got in one later on. Quan Chi was created for the Mortal Kombat cartoon but became canon to the games later on. In this case, he wasn't really designed to be added to the games, it just happened later. So he's not an example of a proper game character, though people will think he is due to the cartoon being nowhere near as iconic as the games. However, due to Mortal Kombat being a game series anyway, it wouldn't matter(not that he'd get in over Scorpion), but technicalities like that are fairly irrelevant when it comes to getting a character. The point is more their series being a game series or not. Since that's extremely important for representing them well.

 

[Lyndis_]

Now that I think about it, how would one player be able to properly play Smash Bros. with only one Joy-Con controller? You'd have less buttons to work with than if you were to use both Joy-Con controllers.

More effectively than you could with a sideways Wii Remote.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

More effectively than you could with a sideways Wii Remote.

True, but without a Right Control Stick, you have no quick way to execute a smash attack; you'd have to go back to the ways of the first Super Smash Bros..

 

[Lyndis_]

People are talking debuts. R.O.B. definitely debuted as a toy first. But he was made for a game. Lucario debuted in a movie first. But was made for a game.

That's why "originating in a game" isn't really all that notable for Smash in itself. Because that isn't the point of a character option. They need to be essentially a character for a game. It's the reason why game-only characters in games based upon an anime are effectively the same as being an anime character. Licensing would stay the same. R.O.B. did not originate in a game no matter how you slice it. Doesn't mean he isn't overall a game character due to what he was designed to be. "Debuting" and "What they're meant for" is more important overall. There's few cases where they were not meant for a game but still got in one later on. Quan Chi was created for the Mortal Kombat cartoon but became canon to the games later on. In this case, he wasn't really designed to be added to the games, it just happened later. So he's not an example of a proper game character, though people will think he is due to the cartoon being nowhere near as iconic as the games. However, due to Mortal Kombat being a game series anyway, it wouldn't matter(not that he'd get in over Scorpion), but technicalities like that are fairly irrelevant when it comes to getting a character. The point is more their series being a game series or not. Since that's extremely important for representing them well.

The game Stack-Up and him released the same day in Japan. How did he debut as a toy first? I'm fairly certain they were also bundled together.

 

[92MilesPrower]

True, but without a Right Control Stick, you have no quick way to execute a smash attack; you'd have to go back to the ways of the first Super Smash Bros..

The C-Stick was completely optional in Brawl and Smash 4 (nonexistent on 3DS as well).

 

[Deleted member]

Now that I think about it, how would one player be able to properly play Smash Bros. with only one Joy-Con controller? You'd have less buttons to work with than if you were to use both Joy-Con controllers.

A single Joy-Con has a lot of buttons on it, something like a pause button, 4 main ones, 2 triggers on the top and 2 on the side with the ability to press the analog down. The only real disadvantage would be the lack of a second analog stick, but you don't need that to play (source: played with a sideways Wii Remote back in Brawl...).

Edit: It's also kind of awkward to press the 2 triggers that are hidden while docked if you're not used to it because of how small they are coupled with the fact that they're a bit indented so they can attach to the Switch itself.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The game and him released the same day in Japan. How did he debut as a toy first?

Fair point. But he was also specifically advertised as a toy to help sell the games, so him being a toy is very important too.

Anyway, see Lucario for the other example of where this has happened before. Regardless, the point was "debuting" isn't the be-end all of it.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I am so frigging hyped for tomorrow's rating of Sora in the Rate Their Chances thread.

You will finally see why I have been confident of Sora being in Smash when you read my analysis in that thread real soon.

 

[Pazzo.]

People got by on the Wii Remote alone, there was even a competitive Mega Man player who prefered it!

Maybe this time with the "tag in" nature of the Switch we can even get a "hand the Joycon and jump in" mode.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The C-Stick was completely optional in Brawl and Smash 4 (nonexistent on 3DS as well).

Yes it's optional, but sometimes you may accidentally perform an f-tilt, instead of an f-smash. The Right Control Stick would mitigate that dilemma.

Also, only the standard Nintendo 3DS systems lack a C-Stick, as the New Nintendo 3DS models have it.

A single Joy-Con has a lot of buttons on it, something like a pause button, 4 main ones, 2 triggers on the top and 2 on the side with the ability to press the analog down. The only real disadvantage would be the lack of a second analog stick, but you don't need that to play (source: played with a sideways Wii Remote back in Brawl...).

I don't know what it's like to use a single Joy-Con Controller, but I would think that it would feel somewhat uncomfortable (even moreso than holding the Wii Remote sideways); the past times that I've played the Nintendo Switch, I've always used both Joy-Con Controllers.

 

[A Distant Demon]

When I played Brawl I actually liked playing with just the wii mote, or Wii+chuck. That's all I used. They were both. . .passable.

As long as you have buttons for attack, special, shield, and movement, you're fine. Hell I think the joycons are nice enough to let you assign a button for grabbing and jumping too! No L+A grabbing or tap-jumping!

 

[Deleted member]

When I played Brawl I actually liked playing with just the wii mote, or Wii+chuck. That's all I used. They were both. . .passable.

As long as you have buttons for attack, special, shield, and movement, you're fine. Hell I think the joycons are nice enough to let you assign a button for grabbing and jumping too! No L+A grabbing or tap-jumping!

Brawl is fine on a Wii Mote + N' Chuck, but better on a GC controller.
GC Controller has more complex controller and those good angles can be used for precise tilts to start combos.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Have we discussed the idea of all characters having unique victory themes? It really bothers me that characters such as Rosalina, Dark Pit and Meta Knight have completely different victory themes, while everyone else has their generic shared series victory themes. It's something that I've wanted since the Smash 4 speculation period, and it should definitely happen.

 

[Koopaul]

R.O.B. was specifically designed to run with the NES and video games. You can't play with him without a video game. He won't run.

 

[TheMagic1]

I mean, it's not hard to think that when you come here and write walls of texts about how Daisy is irrelevant and should be deleted, even when there are a lot of Mario spin off characters that are in her situation, including Waluigi.

Then also generalize her fanbase thanks to crazy Daisy fans like memoryman.

I don't know, I think you are just exaggerating.

Your post kinda reminded me of a classic gamefaqs topic, a place where hating Daisy is basically a meme.

Also if you cut Daisy out of Mario all together. That's just sad. There's fundamentally nothing wrong with her as a character.

Her fans can be....over zealous, true. But even if she's just regulated to the spin-offs now. She represents a party of Mario's long storied history. She's similar to Geno in a way. She hasn't been in more than one game that one might consider ''mattering." but she's present for said game and to just say ''Hey let's get rid of her all together" is equal to if they did the same thing to Pauline or Rosalina.

Daisy's game might not be as revered or acclaimed as the original DK or Odyssey or even the Galaxy series but it's a part of Mario's history and just to see someone suggest we remove her from Nintendo all together is kind of pathetic and sad and comes across as being mean for the sake of just being mean.

oof I probably should explain this better.

I don't think Daisy should be flat out cut from the entire Mario universe in general, I just think that she shouldn't be this main character anymore. Nintendo could still give her cameos and references, she can appear in Odyssey with Sarasaland, and having her in SMR is fine. It's just that I don't think it's worth it to have her as this main character anymore, and that they should focus on other characters to add in. Daisy wasn't the only character at the time. We have Tatanga and Wart who I think are long overdue for a spot in the Mario spin-offs, Pauline should've been in way before Odyssey because she is literally the whole reason Peach exists and Peach is one of the most iconic video game characters of all time, and there's some outside Mario characters from the Wario, DK, and RPG games as they could be guests who can advertise their franchises. I don't see why Nintendo should spend so much time on this one character, give her animations and everything when she doesn't have a reason to still be in these spin-offs, especially when there's better characters to focus on. I also think this way with Toadette but they could probably make her a female alt for Toad, and Peach could get a Daisy costume in these games too so she's not completely gone.

I think I mentioned this earlier but I'll say it again, Waluigi is different in this case, because the people who made him actually wanted to create a unique character and wanted to do stuff with him. Because in a lot of these games, Waluigi is sometimes the main villain or he teams up with Wario to cheat or do something mischievous, which at least matters in the game he's in and many people praised the cutscenes he starred in. Point is, he's way more notable than Daisy in these games, which is why I think he should be the one representing spin-offs instead. You also have Toad too who is one of the most iconic npcs in gaming. Why represent spin-offs with the character who never mattered in them? It would just be ridiculous.

Plus, I never said that the fans are one of the reasons why she should be gone. I was saying that these people were being a bunch of idiots in the comment section, spouting nonsense and then trying to call people "delusional Waluigi fanboys" because they disagree. And no guys, it wasn't Memoryman, it was this whole group of Daisy fans doing this which is just sad. Maybe we're better off just ignoring these people so I'll stop talking about them.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

R.O.B. was specifically designed to run with the NES and video games. You can't play with him without a video game. He won't run.

He was also still advertised as a toy. That's all I was saying.

Either way, I conceded the main point anyway. Lucario is really the sole example at this time anyway.

 

[Zippo]

My coping mechanism if there is no Smash news this week:

"At least there's Infinity War on Thursday..."

 

[Tree Gelbman]

My coping mechanism if there is no Smash news this week:

At least there's Infinity War on Thursday...

Same. You have no idea how this is a same feel.

 

[Danpal65]

Yes it's optional, but sometimes you may accidentally perform an f-tilt, instead of an f-smash. The Right Control Stick would mitigate that dilemma.

Also, only the standard Nintendo 3DS systems lack a C-Stick, as the New Nintendo 3DS models have it.

I don't know what it's like to use a single Joy-Con Controller, but I would think that it would feel somewhat uncomfortable (even moreso than holding the Wii Remote sideways); the past times that I've played the Nintendo Switch, I've always used both Joy-Con Controllers.

The JoyCon are one of those controllers that are surprisingly comfortable when you go to use them, even individually sideways. I can definitely see them working fine for Smash. You have your joystick, a jump button, standard a attack, special button, pause button, a button for grab and one more for shield. It has everything you need except for a c-stick for easy smashes. Now you probably won't see anyone using it for competitive, but it would work more than fine for casual play.

I am so frigging hyped for tomorrow's rating of Sora in the Rate Their Chances thread.

You will finally see why I have been confident of Sora being in Smash when you read my analysis in that thread real soon.

Looking forward to it. Sora has somehow become my guilty pleasure for newcomer in this Smash game and definitely in my top 5.

 

[Pazzo.]

What character announcement would top your favorite newcomer for Smash 4?

I ask because I'm not sure anything tops Robin, although Inklings came close.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Lara Croft would instantly make me forget Rosalina and Bayonetta were ever announced.

 

[Sage of Ice]

My coping mechanism if there is no Smash news this week:

At least there's Infinity War on Thursday...

i'm not gonna be able to see it right away... ;w;

What character announcement would top your favorite newcomer for Smash 4?

I ask because I'm not sure anything tops Robin, although Inklings came close.

anybody in my signature, really. unless we're counting Mewtwo coming back i wasn't super jazzed about any of the newcomers last time.

anyways i may be casual trash but i always liked the wiimote for smash. but the joycons feel really nice in general, maybe my favorite controller i've ever held, so i'm sure i'll have no trouble adapting.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Obvious both K. Rool and Lloyd(or any Tales Of character in general). Also Lucas being confirmed in the base game.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

True, but without a Right Control Stick, you have no quick way to execute a smash attack; you'd have to go back to the ways of the first Super Smash Bros..

Do a lot of people use the C-stick? I’ve always executed Smash attacks the old-fashioned way.

Have we discussed the idea of all characters having unique victory themes? It really bothers me that characters such as Rosalina, Dark Pit and Meta Knight have completely different victory themes, while everyone else has their generic shared series victory themes. It's something that I've wanted since the Smash 4 speculation period, and it should definitely happen.

THIS. I’ve always wanted each character to have their own victory theme

 

[TheMagic1]

Yes it's optional, but sometimes you may accidentally perform an f-tilt, instead of an f-smash. The Right Control Stick would mitigate that dilemma.

Also, only the standard Nintendo 3DS systems lack a C-Stick, as the New Nintendo 3DS models have it.



I don't know what it's like to use a single Joy-Con Controller, but I would think that it would feel somewhat uncomfortable (even moreso than holding the Wii Remote sideways); the past times that I've played the Nintendo Switch, I've always used both Joy-Con Controllers.

One Joy-Con is going to be passable as the only real disadvantage would be no c-stick which isn't too bad. Wiimote and Nunchcuk is viable though because you have no momentum loss when doing aerials because you can do it on the d-pad. I'll miss it when Smash 5 comes out.

 

[Danpal65]

Not to sound like a broken record, but... SKREEEEEEE! It would have to be Ridley getting into Smash. I'd forget most characters existed if he were to get in. Similar story for Sora, but probably not as extreme.

 

[Koopaul]

He was also still advertised as a toy. That's all I was saying.

Video games were advertised as toys.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Idea: Ice Climbers in 8-player is possible but limits stage selection even further.

Maybe down to "Black Box floating in White Void Land"
Maybe the Omega Version of the Box Boy stage?

16 Ice Climbers in one stage?

How about THE ICE SUMMIT MATCH?

 

[A Distant Demon]

What character announcement would top your favorite newcomer for Smash 4?

I ask because I'm not sure anything tops Robin, although Inklings came close.

Coin toss between Viridi and Ridley

Viridi is absolutely the character I want the most.

But Getting Ridley would fulfill years of need for closure.


I think deep in my heart, the answer is Ridley. Viridi is amazing, but Ridley has a lot of other factors beyond just their character (the other fans, the constant detraction, etc)

 

[JamesDNaux]

What character announcement would top your favorite newcomer for Smash 4?

Considering the only character I wanted that got in Smash For was Pac-Man, and he was at the bottom of my list...

Pretty much anyone in my sig.

Though he's already been topped since Inklings were higher up on my want list.

 

[Hinata]

What character announcement would top your favorite newcomer for Smash 4?

I ask because I'm not sure anything tops Robin, although Inklings came close.

Announcing Phoenix Wright or Ashley would top literally any announcement Smash 4 ever gave us, character or otherwise.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

People got by on the Wii Remote alone, there was even a competitive Mega Man player who prefered it!

Maybe this time with the "tag in" nature of the Switch we can even get a "hand the Joycon and jump in" mode.

Anyone in my signature (which is at the top of the page now I think...)
Extra shout outs to -
Mimikyu for beating out Decideueye, and for being my second/first (depends on the day) favorite Pokemon in general.
Twintelle, because she's my girl! And it would be the first time a character I had no real hopes for got in.
And Ridley, because been waiting since Brawl. Don't disappoint Sakurai