Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ultomato]

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I don't know this. Should I be afraid?

 

[Deleted member]

I don't, and that's why I hate getting caught in the crossfire.

If you get emotionally distressed over an inoffensive videogame character being confirmed for a videogame, you are taking things too seriously.

 

[Deleted member]

My DLC?
Pack 1:
Joker with a casino stage
Erdrick with Alefgard
Banjo with Spiral Mountain
Doomguy with a mars facility
Ryu Hayabusa, not super sure for stage
Pack 2:
Geno with Star Hill
Heihachi, plenty of good stage choices
Lloyd, not sure for stage
Sylux, see above
Rayman with Glade of Dreams

 

[Wademan94]

Ryu Hayabusa, not super sure for stage

I’m personally hoping for Basilik Mine Field myself, the stage that plays this theme:

 

[Iko MattOrr]

My dream fighter pass:

-Adeleine & Ribbon
-Karate Joe
-Ganon (classic design)
-Captain Syrup
-Geno

Obviously it will never happen.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

If you get emotionally distressed over an inoffensive videogame character being confirmed for a videogame, you are taking things too seriously.

I don't. Hence why I said what I said. I don't want him in, but I don't get emotionally distressed over it. I don't approve of people supporting him only for the salt and their behavior bothers me to no end.

 

[Dee Dude]

When the hell did Jova ever say that?

You’re putting words in his mouth cause god forbid anyone is allowed to have negative emotions over a character they don’t like.

I know people can be extreme but come on.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Lots of opinions and assumptions.

Considering Rayman has more titles and has sold more... I don't know if Doom is bigger.

Doom is an early 90's IP too. It's not like NES or arcade tier.

Plus why Doom? There are other western IP much bigger then Doom.

Your points are pretty subjective, and depend heavily on a likely faked rumor.

"Ubisoftich smaller company" ..lol

Are you really trying to argue that the biggest pusher of FPS games, one of the most prominent genres for the last 2 decades, isn't as big of a deal as Rayman? I like Rayman but come on man

Also Celeste talk? A stage would be great, but I don't really like the thought of Madeline being playable, her story is about dealing with her mental health struggles. It doesn't sit well with me to be able to fight someone who's been a suicidal alcoholic (See her full heart to heart with Theo and the Mirror Cavern audio easter egg)

 

[DarthEnderX]

If I had complete control over this DLC, the remaining 4 would be:

DLC #2: Octolings
DLC #3: Crono
DLC #4: Yuri Lowell
DLC #5: Dr. Eggman

1. Joker [Persona]
1e. Shadow [Sonic echo]

2. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2e. Impa [Sheik echo]

3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
3e. Bass [Mega Man echo]

4. Kunio [River City Ransom]
4e. Riki [Kunio echo]

5. Erdrick [Dragon Quest]
5e. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon echo]

The e's are echoes released for free at the same time as each DLC pack.

 

[PeridotGX]

I thought about this a lot. Off course, we're going with Mystery Dungeon Grovyle.
Normal/smash attacks: his Leaf Blades van replace the Water Blades, easy.

Now, specials, all pulled from his various PMD2 movesets :
Neutral: Bullet Seed, Just Ivysaurs, but forward.
Side: In PMD2, he actually uses Shadow Sneak, but you can use dig for variety.
Up: Quick Attack. Just like Pikachu's, so Hydropump with a hitbox and no windbox.
Down: Again, his PMD2 set uses Substitute

So yeah. Easy

Okay, he works as an echo, but why not make him unique? Plants are still an underused element, so he should make full use of them. And then you could use all of the PMD exclusive stuff, like the Trap Tiles and some items.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Off topic but I hadn't realized at Sakurai REALLY loves Minecraft. There is even article of him expressing his full enjoyment on Minecraft!

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/...mple-actions-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-535/

Spoiler: If you dont want to go on the website, here is his thoughts

Yoiko’s Minecraft Survival was an interesting show, so I decided to start playing Minecraft. I don’t usually go back to games after I’ve completed them, but when something piques my interest, it can’t be helped. Wait a second. This time I’m going to be playing on the Nintendo Switch, so I’ll be starting with a fresh slate, without my previous save data. I’m also going to go through Survival Mode instead of Creative Mode because it puts an exciting spin on the game.

This isn’t a mode where you can relax and take a carefree approach. You have to hurry to chop down trees, hurry to build a shelter, and hurry to start digging. Survival Mode is more intense than even a lot of action games. There’s no time to get lost! I have to hurry!!

Build a base. Build a house. Set up a farm to gather resources. The main focus though is to advance further by digging your way deeper and deeper underground.

The action itself is pretty simple. It’s kind of like having to do manual labor. You just take your pickaxe and start breaking down the rocks in front of you, and when it gets too dark to see, you start placing torches. Then it’s back to digging. When you reach a cave, it’s time to do some exploring and placing torches. Then it’s back to digging. When your inventory gets full, you go back to the surface to store and organize your materials. That’s the Minecraft life.

The digging itself is a simple action and there isn’t much in terms of strategy, but it makes for an interesting and very satisfying game. What makes it feel this way?

I think it’s the, ‘I bet I can use this later,’ feeling. It’s an element that’s important to any game, right? In Minecraft, if you dig up something good, you can use it to build all kinds of tools and contraptions. Even a plain old rock can be used as a building material so you want to grab those for crafting, too.

You can build to your heart’s content, which makes gathering the resources you need to actually do that building, fun. The simple action of digging has a payoff in the future. This is a type of fun that can’t be had in Creative Mode.

On top of that, there are ravines, enemies, encounters with spewing magma, and other moments that feel like special events. They don’t always go your way, but they spice things up.

If someone tried to build a resource gathering game like Minecraft, it wouldn’t necessarily have the same kind of fun. Having plenty of ways to use the resources you’ve gathered is what adds the fun. If there isn’t a good balance between the two, I think the game would start to lose what makes it interesting.

Suppose you tried to make a game in the crafting genre. What would the focus of it be? If you simply made a game in the same genre but tried make the combat more interesting, it probably wouldn’t be satisfactory. When what you’re doing now is a factor later on, it makes the future more interesting and the game deeper. I think this is applicable in a lot of games.

If a game is made up of simple actions, as long they mesh well with some other type of enjoyment, like gathering experience points, advancing to the next stage, or moving the story forward, then they’ll work just fine. In the case of crafting games, being able to make many types of things carries a lot of weight.

At the start, I wrote that starting with a clean slate is fun.

Seeing your resource-gathering pay off is one thing, but with a fresh start, there are endless possibilities, countless things you can do to move forward.

Plus, if the actions are simple, I can do them while riding my exercise bike. That’s all I’ve got!

I bet Sakurai would be really suprised and happy if Nintendo chose Steve as a character, wonder what new unique moveset Steve will have since Sakurai had his own experience towards the game!

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

If I had complete control over this DLC, the remaining 4 would be:

DLC #2: Octolings
DLC #3: Crono
DLC #4: Yuri Lowell
DLC #5: Dr. Eggman

That'd get a nice 11/10 for me with Joker and included.

Let me try....

DLC #2: Rhythm Girl
DLC #3: Steve
DLC #4: Min Min
DLC #5: Phoenix Wright

 

[Ultomato]

Okay, he works as an echo, but why not make him unique? Plants are still an underused element, so he should make full use of them. And then you could use all of the PMD exclusive stuff, like the Trap Tiles and some items.

That would be epic...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

1. Joker [Persona]
1e. Shadow [Sonic echo]

2. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2e. Impa [Sheik echo]

3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
3e. Bass [Mega Man echo]

4. Kunio [River City Ransom]
4e. Riki [Kunio echo]

5. Erdrick [Dragon Quest]
5e. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon echo]

The e's are echoes released for free at the same time as each DLC pack.

May I ask something? Why Bass as an echo instead of, y'know, Proto Man, who's pretty much identical in terms of play style of classic Mega Man in Mega Man 9 and 10

 

[Deleted member]

Did somebody say
C E L E S T E M U S I C

Spoiler

Honestly though I would like any indie game music. Most indie games have amazing music, and now that they're such a huge part of the industry it would be nice to see them represented beyond Shovel Knight and possibly Minecraft (which is barely even an indie game anymore but whatever).

 

[Wademan94]

Also Celeste talk? A stage would be great, but I don't really like the thought of Madeline being playable, her story is about dealing with her mental health struggles. It doesn't sit well with me to be able to fight someone who's been a suicidal alcoholic (See her full heart to heart with Theo and the Mirror Cavern audio easter egg)

Well I wouldn’t say she was suicidal moreso she was dealing with depression, but yeah there’s also that. I think a spirit of her and potentially Badeline would be fine as well.

 

[Ultomato]

Also Celeste talk? A stage would be great, but I don't really like the thought of Madeline being playable, her story is about dealing with her mental health struggles. It doesn't sit well with me to be able to fight someone who's been a suicidal alcoholic (See her full heart to heart with Theo and the Mirror Cavern audio easter egg)

That's a very good point and I completely agree.
HOWEVER I'd like to point out that Isabelle is cannonically pacifist.

 

[dezeray112]

If I had complete control over this DLC, the remaining 4 would be:

DLC #2: Octolings
DLC #3: Crono
DLC #4: Yuri Lowell
DLC #5: Dr. Eggman

That'd get a nice 11/10 for me with Joker and included.

I'll give this a go:

DLC2: Elma
DLC3: Heihachi Mishima
DLC4: ARMS Rep
DLC5: Tecmo Koei Rep.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I'll go ahead and give my own DLC ~~pipe dream~~ wish list

No Pass (bonus characters): Piranha Plant, Ninten (Ness Echo), Black Shadow (Captain Falcon Echo)

Pass 1, the third party pack: Joker, Ryu Hayabusa, Erdrick, Doom Guy, Travis Touchdown

Pass 2, the old school pack: Excitebiker, Muddy Mole, Rick, Lip

Pass 3, the HYPE pack: Banjo, Geno, Isaac, Waluigi

(for the record, I don't think any of this will happen or that we'll even get this much, but dammit this is SPECULATION, which means WISHLISTS)

 

[DarthEnderX]

May I ask something? Why Bass as an echo instead of, y'know, Proto Man, who's pretty much identical in terms of play style of classic Mega Man in Mega Man 9 and 10

Mainly because the MM series could use a villain rep.

And Bass is also pretty much the same as Mega Man in MM10. The only real differences is are his gun rapid fires instead of charges, and the animation on his slide.

And, honestly, I think Proto Man would work better as an Assist Trophy. Teleporting in, shooting up the place, then teleporting away is perfectly in line with how he operates in most games. They can even play his whistle when he drops in.

 

[Deleted member]

Are you really trying to argue that the biggest pusher of FPS games, one of the most prominent genres for the last 2 decades, isn't as big of a deal as Rayman? I like Rayman but come on man

Also Celeste talk? A stage would be great, but I don't really like the thought of Madeline being playable, her story is about dealing with her mental health struggles. It doesn't sit well with me to be able to fight someone who's been a suicidal alcoholic (See her full heart to heart with Theo and the Mirror Cavern audio easter egg)

I thought Celeste was just a cute game about climbing mountains, this is like if someone told me "Nana is actually Popo's deceased sister he believes to still be alive but in truth no one but him can see her becayse he can't accept his sister is truly gone"

 

[ErenJager]

If

Are you really trying to argue that the biggest pusher of FPS games, one of the most prominent genres for the last 2 decades, isn't as big of a deal as Rayman? I like Rayman but come on man

Also Celeste talk? A stage would be great, but I don't really like the thought of Madeline being playable, her story is about dealing with her mental health struggles. It doesn't sit well with me to be able to fight someone who's been a suicidal alcoholic (See her full heart to heart with Theo and the Mirror Cavern audio easter egg)

If you run the numbers, it's compelling.
Number of games, plus how many each sold. Impact and significance on the industry as a whole. Sure. But you get into something far more subjective at that point.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

If


If you run the numbers, it's compelling.
Number of games, plus how many each sold. Impact and significance on the industry as a whole. Sure. But you get into something far more subjective at that point.

Sales and the amount of games don't always matter...

Pretty sure Doom is a more iconic name in gaming, compared to Rayman

 

[Wademan94]

I thought Celeste was just a cute game about climbing mountains, this is like if someone told me "Nana is actually Popo's deceased sister he believes to still be alive but in truth no one but him can see her becayse he can't accept his sister is truly gone"

Have you had the chance to actually play the game or at least seen some gameplay of it?

 

[Deleted member]

Side-note, but Valhalla 2, the biggest European Ultimate tournament. Major props to Glutonny, those reversal 3-0s were absolutely insane. Credit to Vreyvus too, his first big tournament, a WiFi warrior, maining Ridley but he still got second place. Great play all around.

 

[Deleted member]

I generally like to see the other way around of these things. Like, people kept saying "I don't want to beat up Isabelle!" but I 100% wanted to have Isabelle kill a international martial artist, god and an eldritch abomination.

 

[PeridotGX]

My ideal DLC packs:

Pack 1: 3rd parties

Joker (can't change that)
Maxwell (Scribblenauts)
Knuckles
Megaman X
Some fan favorite to make people happy

Pack 2: 1st Parties

Bandana Dee
Kamek
Grovyle
Fawful
Octoling

Pack 3: Echoes

Ninten ()
Something ()
Galacta Knight ()
Lily (Maxwell)
Blaziken ()

Pack 4: Bias picks who don't deserve top get in

Marx
Arcade Rabbit
Hoopa
Chill Penguin (Mega Man X)
Peridot (Steven Universe)

 

[Yellowlord]

I guess I’ll tag DaybreakHorizon here, but I believe you were the one who said that there may be evidence Yuri and Lloyd were discussed?

 

[Deleted member]

Have you had the chance to actually play the game?

Unfortunately no. The game wouldn't recognize my XBox controller and I tried to play it with a keyboard but not only was I unable to play properly, my hands would hurt constantly.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well I wouldn’t say she was suicidal moreso she was dealing with depression, but yeah there’s also that. I think a spirit of her and potentially Badeline would be fine as well.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh...

This really does give off heavy implications Madeline has thought about ending her life

That's a very good point and I completely agree.
HOWEVER I'd like to point out that Isabelle is cannonically pacifist.

That's a different argument, being a cheery pacifist isn't the same as being someone who's spiraled into depression and struggles to find a way out. The idea of punching someone like Madeline down just REALLY doesn't sit well with me. Isabelle's incredibly cheery demeanor isn't really the same

Mainly because the MM series could use a villain rep.

And Bass is also pretty much the same as Mega Man in MM10. The only real differences is are his gun rapid fires instead of charges, and the animation on his slide.

And, honestly, I think Proto Man would work better as an Assist Trophy. Teleporting in, shooting up the place, then teleporting away is perfectly in line with how he operates in most games. They can even play his whistle when he drops in.

I disagree but your points are pretty clear, I getcha

 

[Wademan94]

Unfortunately no. The game wouldn't recognize my XBox controller and I tried to play it with a keyboard but not only was I unable to play properly, my hands would hurt constantly.

Okay, sorry about all the spoilers, a lot of the stuff we’re talking about is very prominent pass the first level.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If


If you run the numbers, it's compelling.
Number of games, plus how many each sold. Impact and significance on the industry as a whole. Sure. But you get into something far more subjective at that point.

Can you give me the numbers then? Also how the hell is impact and significance to the industry subjective? It's a FACT that it took a looooong time for people to stop calling FPS games Doom clones

 

[Deleted member]

How long is Celeste anyway? I think last I played I had just beat the hotel level.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

I guess I’ll tag DaybreakHorizon here, but I believe you were the one who said that there may be evidence Yuri and Lloyd were discussed?

Eh? What's this about?

 

[Yellowlord]

Eh? What's this about?

This was something I found that was posted here back in December, so that’s why I’m asking.

 

[Ultomato]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh...

This really does give off heavy implications Madeline has thought about ending her life

That's a different argument, being a cheery pacifist isn't the same as being someone who's spiraled into depression and struggles to find a way out. The idea of punching someone like Madeline down just REALLY doesn't sit well with me. Isabelle's incredibly cheery demeanor isn't really the same

I disagree but your points are pretty clear, I getcha

To be honest, I was blinded by the "But great games deserve to get in smash" feel and now I'm trying to clean up my mess. In reality I'm on your side of the argument

 

[Deleted member]

That's a different argument, being a cheery pacifist isn't the same as being someone who's spiraled into depression and struggles to find a way out. The idea of punching someone like Madeline down just REALLY doesn't sit well with me. Isabelle's incredibly cheery demeanor isn't really the same

Does she manage to get better by the end of the game though?
Besides, I always saw Smash as a friendly competition but I understand the concerns of beating up a character like her.

Okay, sorry about all the spoilers, a lot of the stuff we’re talking about is very prominent pass the first level.

No problem, I don't mind it considering I won't have a chance to play it anywhere in the near future.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Here is a video of a moveset prediction of Joker from GameXplain

What is your prediction towards Joker's moveset in ultimate?

 

[YoshiandToad]

Oh, we're doing dream DLCs?

NGL, not all of them are dream picks for me personally(Joker and currently not on the Geno train), but with that most the Nintendo characters I feel most deserving make it.
You can swap Tingle out for Midna, Impa or Ghirahim if you really must(as I have many Zelda characters I like) but with that every slightly significant Nintendo character I could think of has been included...except maybe Paper Mario if you count him as a seperate entity and not just Mario from a different dimension.

I really wish I cared more for third parties. I just don't. Sigh. Tails, Crash and Spyro I guess would be neat, but very few third parties personally appeal.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty sure it was Spawnwave who was claiming Sora, not Verg

Ah thanks. I thought I heard that somewhere.