Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TumblrFamous]

I have no idea what you mean. I'd be glad for MOST *glares at tingle* any Zelda newcomer. I don't anticipate it since TP was wildly successful (for Zelda) and didn't get one. But I suppose they didn't know that when the Brawl roster was decided much like how they wouldn't have know that about Breath when this roster was decided, so maybe dlc can change that.

Honestly, I'm hoping that the rerelease of WW and TP, and the positive reception of Hyrule Warriors makes an opening in Smash for characters like Midna, Tetra, or even Toon Zelda. (Hyrule Warriors likely won't affect their chances, but rather show development who the popular characters are)

I'm not going to lie, I have supreme bias as those two games (before BoTW) were my two favorite Zelda games, so I would definitely want some of my favorite characters from those games.

 

[92MilesPrower]

1. Ice Climbers: They were planned for Smash 4, but were cut only because of system limitations. Switch can definitely handle them.

2. Takamaru: Originally planned as a newcomer, he was made an Assist Trophy instead because of how everyone outside of Japan was unfamiliar with him. His game being released on the eShop and the Nintendoland game based off of said game definitely help, however, and he'll likely get in this time.

3. Gen 7 Pokémon: Decidueye, Mimikyu, Incineroar, Lycanroc, or freaking Stakataka for all I care. We're bound to get a new Pokémon, and with basically no dirt on gen 8 whatsoever at the moment, I highly doubt we'll see a Pokémon from gen 8 in Smash's base roster. Either way, we're getting a gen 7 Pokémon.

4. Rex (& Pyra) and/or Elma (or another XCX rep): Xenoblade is VERY popular now and it'd be shocking to see a rep from neither game get into Smash 5.

5. Rayman: A few other 3rd parties can go here instead, but I feel Rayman is more likely. The 3 trophies in Smash Wii U, and the good relationship between Nintendo and Ubisoft that resulted in Mario + Rabbids boost his chances over others.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

everyone talking about the champions yet no one wants another wind waker character...

I'm still a hard Tetra fan. Or we could get Toon Zelda possessing the Phantom. That would be fun.

Spirit/Phantom Toon Zelda and Tetra would make the most sense. Toon Zelda and Tetra are not only the most recurring characters with a major role, but they are both incarnations of Zelda, the most important character after Link.

Makes more sense to have other descendants of Link/Zelda/Ganon since there are so many unique incarnations that different people are attached to, instead of trying to dig for another character who's nowhere near as significant as them.

 

[Zippo]

Insiders have hinted at it, and most people seem to be convinced that there's a Pokemon Switch announcement coming within the next 72 hours, so I recommend for all Smash fans to keep your expectations in check this week. We might get news. We might not. Looks like Pokemon might come first, though.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Going off expected newcomers, who are people's most expected (including past cut veterans)? Let's say 5 most expected (no bias, just who you think will be in the game). Mine:

Bandana Dee
Ice Climbers
Ray Man
Isabelle
A Gen 7 Pokemon (idk who)

Ice Climbers and Wolf are locks for sure. Then Dixie, Bandana Dee and a pokemon I'd say are very likely

Those are the 5 I'm pretty sure of, I'm also thinking we'll get a Xenoblade rep and bias aside I wanna say Elma.

I might be late to this.


I honestly only see 10 newcomers to be getting in, excluding veterans. Mainly for two reasons:

1. The roster is getting very large, which will be difficult to balance or even implement on its own.

2. There aren’t really any Nintendo characters left to add.

I know that people are going to say that we have already started reaching into the bottom of the barrel by Smash 4, but I believe that we NOW started reaching really deep into bottom of the barrel. The only newcomers that most will interest the casual audience or make the most sense are:

Inklings (Confirmed)
A New Xenoblade Character
ARMS Character
Gen 7 Pokemon
Any Popular Ballot Character

But thats really it. Most other characters that I have seen mentioned here are either obsure that the most people dont even know, or characters people wont care, want, or would even backlash against Nintendo for including them. IMO unlike Smash 4 which had a lot of characters I was hyped for the newcomers that were added in like Megaman, Pacman, Palutena, Greninja, and even WFT and Duck Hunt. This might be the Smash game with the most underwhelming newcomers aside from the five I mentioned above.

EDIT: This is just my opinion, so I just wanted to share my thoughts. Let me know your thoughts if you disagree.

Dixie, Bandana Dee and Isabelle too, all majorly popular characters

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ice Climbers and Wolf are locks for sure. Then Dixie, Bandana Dee and a pokemon.

Those are the 5 I'm certain of, I'm also certain we'll get a Xenoblade rep and bias aside I wanna say Elma.


Dixie, Bandana Dee and Isabelle too, all majorly popular characters

I woudn't describe Wolf, Dixie, or Waddle Dee as locks. Wolf makes sense if all the DLC characters are returning, but it's not guaranteed. Waddle Dee I don't even see as particularly likely. And I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get any DK newcomers. I think Wolf and Dixie are very likely given recent circumstances, but they are definitely not locks.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Insiders have hinted at It, and most people seem to be convinced that there's a Pokemon Switch announcement coming within the next 72 hours, so i recommend for all Smash fans to keep your expectations in check this week. We might get news. We might not. Looks like Pokemon might come first, though.

If there is a Pokemon Direct coming this week (we don't even know yet), it'll just be Pokemon. Gamefreak will be sure they take the stage for what is arguably the biggest shift and movement for the Pokemon series.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Kind of weird to describe Waddle Dee as a guarantee. He's just as likely as he was last time. At least Dixie Kong has the benefit of making a comeback in a really popular Wii U game.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Kind of weird to describe any potential newcomer as a guarantee at this point.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I woudn't describe Wolf, Dixie, or Waddle Dee as locks. Wolf makes sense if all the DLC characters are returning, but it's not guaranteed. Waddle Dee I don't even see as particularly likely. And I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get any DK newcomers. I think Wolf and Dixie are very likely given recent circumstances, but they are definitely not locks.

I mean icies and wolf are, not the other 3...and I'll be baffled if Wolf doesn't come back cause Zero was released at literally the perfect time.

Idk why I said certain lol, I didn't mean certain, I'm tired lol

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I mean icies and wolf are, not the other 3...and I'll be baffled if Wolf doesn't come back cause Zero was released at literally the perfect time.

Idk why I said certain lol, I didn't mean certain, I'm tired lol

I'll be extremely disappointed if Wolf doesn't come back, assuming the rest of the Wii U cast is. Especially now that he has a bad ass new design and voice.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I'll be extremely disappointed if Wolf doesn't come back, assuming the rest of the Wii U cast is. Especially now that he has a bad *** new design and voice.

True, and star fox being stuck at 2 reps despite having a new game out would be disappointing and weird

 

[Pacack]

Kind of weird to describe Waddle Dee as a guarantee. He's just as likely as he was last time. At least Dixie Kong has the benefit of making a comeback in a really popular Wii U game.

Since Smash 4's character selection ended, we've had Kirby Triple Deluxe, Kirby Planet Robobot, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, and Kirby Star Allies as mainline titles, with an additional 5 spinoff games.

Not even remotely similar to Dixie's situation, as the DK series has had one title and a port since the selection process ended for Smash 4.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Since Smash 4's character selection ended, we've had Kirby Triple Deluxe, Kirby Planet Robobot, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, and Kirby Star Allies as mainline titles, with an additional 5 spinoff games.

Not even remotely similar to Dixie's situation, as she has only appeared in one title and a port since the selection process ended for Smash 4.

I'd argue though that Dixie played a bigger role in her game (the only dk game that released in that timeframe) than bandana dee did in all of those except rainbow curse.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Since Smash 4's character selection ended, we've had Kirby Triple Deluxe, Kirby Planet Robobot, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, and Kirby Star Allies as mainline titles, with an additional 5 spinoff games.

Not even remotely similar to Dixie's situation, as she has only appeared in one title and a port since the selection process ended for Smash 4.

That's the whole point of what I said. It's NOT remotely similar to Dixie's situation. Dixie was actually a playable protagonist in a mainstream installment.

If anything Waddle Dee is LESS likely than before. He served no significant roles in any of the mainstream platforming titles until Star Allies which was released well after Smash 2018 started development. At least before Smash 4 he was in Return to Dreamland.

I love Waddle Dee, but he is very far from a shoo in. Even further than last time.

 

[Pacack]

I'd argue though that Dixie played a bigger role in her game (the only dk game that released in that timeframe) than bandana dee did in all of those except rainbow curse.

Yet, Bandana Dee has had a game where he was at least as prominent in one game, was still playable in Star Allies, and was less prominent, but still important, in all others.

That's still more than Dixie has.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Yet, Bandana Dee has had a game where he was at least as prominent in one game, was still playable in Star Allies, and was less prominent, but still important, in all others.

That's still more than Dixie has.

But only one DK game has come out within that time, it's not exactly a fair comparison, regardless both are deserving and likely

 

[Chandeelure]

Well, Bandana Dee was player 2 in Rainbow Curse and even if it's not a "main" Kirby game, it's the only Wii U Kirby game, so I think it counts for something lol.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

5 most likely new characters.
A Pokémon
A Mario character
A retro character
A 3rd party character
A character with a sword

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Little off-topic though I think the fact that there are no more solid locks aside from Inkling (which we have) makes speculation a lot more interesting. It's all just "possibilities" from here on out.

 

[Troykv]

Kind of weird to describe any potential newcomer as a guarantee at this point.

Yeah, at least before the Smash Switch Revelation we would take the inklings as a guarantee... but they were already revealed... so yeah.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Little off-topic though I think the fact that there are no more solid locks aside from Inkling (which we have) makes speculation a lot more interesting. It's all just "possibilities" from here on out.

Mario and Link are basically confirmed, and from what we could make out of the silhouettes in the trailer, DK, Samus and Bowser definitely are in.

If anything I think we should list off who's universally agreed to be "locks" for Smash 5 with no biases. Basically everyone that is 100% safe and gonna be returning for sure. This is my take:

Some veterans are constantly debated about here and are too controversial to put on here ( etc.), DLC doesn't guarantee they'll be on the main roster this time around, and most newcomers can definitely be said to be up in the air. (I wanna put on the list but for all we know he could end up getting cut and replaced entirely by a new Xenoblade rep from X or 2)

 

[SuperMii3D]

Mario and Link are basically confirmed, and from what we could make out of the silhouettes in the trailer, DK, Samus and Bowser definitely are in.

If anything I think we should list off who's universally agreed to be "locks" for Smash 5 with no biases. Basically everyone that is 100% safe and gonna be returning for sure. This is my take:

Some veterans are constantly debated about here and are too controversial to put on here ( etc.), DLC doesn't guarantee they'll be on the main roster this time around, and most newcomers can definitely be said to be up in the air. (I wanna put on the list but for all we know he could end up getting cut and replaced entirely by a new Xenoblade rep from X or 2)

But why .
Sheik has been in since Melee, and Toon Link and Lucario have stuck around since Brawl, despite their past "controversies". Shulk getting cut for another Xenoblade rep is like Marth getting cut for Ike. It makes no sense to do it.

 

[92MilesPrower]

But why .
Sheik has been in since Melee, and Toon Link and Lucario have stuck around since Brawl, despite their past "controversies". Shulk getting cut for another Xenoblade rep is like Marth getting cut for Ike. It makes no sense to do it.

These veterans from the Smash 4 base roster:
Are constantly debated about and such on here. There's at least a few people who have said they're not 100% sure about all of these characters. (Toon Link potentially getting replaced by another Link clone, Sheik being cut or replaced by Impa because of her not being in any main Zelda games since OoT, Doc has always been controversial, Lucario is still believed by some to be in danger of being cut, I do know a few people on here who think ROB shouldn't be in Smash because of him being a toy, Charizard could end up being part of PT again if they bring transformations back.)

It's like 3am where I am and I'm half asleep so I'm just gonna now act like I didn't say that about Shulk and that he was always in my list originally. Plus, I forgot

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

If anything I think we should list off who's universally agreed to be "locks" for Smash 5 with no biases. Basically everyone that is 100% safe and gonna be returning for sure. This is my take:

Honestly arguments could be made for each and every one of the characters.
If this game is reusing assets a la Splatoon 2 or Mario Tennis Aces then it makes zero since to cut already-made characters for the sake of it, just saying.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Going off expected newcomers, who are people's most expected (including past cut veterans)? Let's say 5 most expected (no bias, just who you think will be in the game). Mine:

Bandana Dee
Ice Climbers
Ray Man
Isabelle
A Gen 7 Pokemon (idk who)

Isabelle, Captain Toad, Ice Climbers, Gen 7 Pokemon, Elma or Rex

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The thing about Smash Switch speculation is now that the Inklings are in, we've not got a lot of locks.

Plus we've all grown cynical and believe if an older character hasn't been added to Smash there must be something preventing it altogether.

All that said, the most likley characters IMO are Waluigi, Isabelle & DK finally getting more reps.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Ice Climbers, Wolf, Rayman and Captain Toad would be the ones I choose if I had a gun pointed on my head.
Maybe even Takamaru. But before any character I'd like to see some gameplay lol

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Kind of weird to describe any potential newcomer as a guarantee at this point.

Rexactly, there are no shoo-ins at this point.

 

[TechPowah]

The Inklings were the only quote-unquote "guaranteed shoo-in", honestly
but now that they're in
it's basically an ultimate-showdown-ultimate-destiny level fight for the roster

 

[FlareHabanero]

Rexactly, there are no shoo-ins at this point.

"Rexactly"? Really?

 

[Freduardo]

The Inklings were the only quote-unquote "guaranteed shoo-in", honestly
but now that they're in
it's basically an ultimate-showdown-ultimate-destiny level fight for the roster

Mr Rogers for Smash?

Not going to lie, maining him.

 

[Cosmic77]

Going to say it again...just because a character is new doesn’t mean that they MUST be added.

This isn't really directed at you or your argument. Just wanted add something to the "new characters aren't required" point you brought up.


Now people aren't wrong when they say newer characters aren't necessary. If anything, they're absolutely right. Compared to older characters, they're not nearly as iconic, and they have a lot more to prove in their future before they feel like they truly deserve a spot on the roster. Plus, there's plenty of other characters Sakurai could add over them. Wanting a character solely because they're new, fit within a certain timeframe, or fill some imaginary quota is a pretty lame reason to support them when we could easily get someone who's far more unique.

However, it seems like a lot of people are picking and choosing which franchises they apply this rule to. I haven't seen anyone object to Decidueye and Elma being too new and "not needed", despite both characters being less than three years old. Heck, people are already expecting a Gen VIII Pokemon and a FE16 character, and we literally have no idea what any of those characters even look like, let alone not knowing what skills they possess and what they could even do in Smash. Yet for some reason, Mario and Zelda characters get the short end of the stick, while newb characters from other franchises like Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade are met with open arms.

Here's something we all need to remember. We're WAY past the point of only adding characters that are "needed". As far as I'm concerned, Brawl took care of the last few remaining characters that seemed like they truly deserved to be on the roster. Right now, we're dipping our hands deep in the barrel trying to scrape up whatever characters we think could work in Smash. It's fair game for all, and arguing against a character just because they're new or not as iconic as other characters from the same franchise doesn't work anymore, especially when you look at Smash 4's roster of Rosalina, Greninja, Shulk, Corrin, and Bayonetta.

Basically, what I'm trying to get at here is that people should be more open to new characters and judge them based off their moveset potential and likability, rather than their age. It's pretty silly to write off a decent character just because you feel like they "aren't needed" or "haven't earned" their spot in Smash.

 

[Freduardo]

This isn't really directed at you or your argument. Just wanted add something to the "new characters aren't required" point you brought up.


Now people aren't wrong when they say newer characters aren't necessary. If anything, they're absolutely right. Compared to older characters, they're not nearly as iconic, and they have a lot more to prove in their future before they feel like they truly deserve a spot on the roster. Plus, there's plenty of other characters Sakurai could add over them. Wanting a character solely because they're new, fit within a certain timeframe, or fill some imaginary quota is a pretty lame reason to support them when we could easily get someone who's far more unique.

However, it seems like a lot of people are picking and choosing which franchises they apply this rule to. I haven't seen anyone object to Decidueye and Elma being too new and "not needed", despite both characters being less than three years old. Heck, people are already expecting a Gen VIII Pokemon and a FE16 character, and we literally have no idea what any of those characters even look like, let alone not knowing what skills they possess and what they could even do in Smash. Yet for some reason, Mario and Zelda characters get the short end of the stick, while newb characters from other franchises like Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade are met with open arms.

Here's something we all need to remember. We're WAY past the point of only adding characters that are "needed". As far as I'm concerned, Brawl took care of the last few remaining characters that seemed like they truly deserved to be on the roster. Right now, we're dipping our hands deep in the barrel trying to scrape up whatever characters we think could work in Smash. It's fair game for all, and arguing against a character just because they're new or not as iconic as other characters from the same franchise doesn't work anymore, especially when you look at Smash 4's roster of Rosalina, Greninja, Shulk, Corrin, and Bayonetta.

Basically, what I'm trying to get at here is that people should be more open to new characters and judge them based off their moveset potential and likability, rather than their age. It's pretty silly to write off a decent character just because you feel like they "aren't needed" or "haven't earned" their spot in Smash.

I feel like this could also be used for characters dismissed as “too old” or “irrelevant”.

My avatar may project my bias.

 

[TheMagic1]

(Actually nvm I got them to work lmao)

I think these Daisy fanbrats might be the worst the entire Nintendo fanbase has ever seen. People constantly tell them that Daisy is irrelevant and that she's done nothing notable in the Mario franchise, and they respond with some dumb claims about how a phone game means that Daisy is cared about, how her first appearance where she did absolutely nothing somehow created Wario, how they claim that she appears in spin-offs even though she does nothing notable in them, and how they insist that everyone who disagrees with them is a "delusional hater". What a bunch of *******.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

"Rexactly"? Really?

I'm sorry that the pun didn't set the world on pyra.

 

[Danpal65]

I'm sorry that the pun didn't set the world on pyra.

Well what pun are you going to make Niaow?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Let's take a think on what characters were popular last time around and didn't get their chance

From Brawl Times

King K. Rool (The dream won't die, got mii costume)
Ridley (The dream somehow still clings to life against all known medical knowledge)
Krystal (Had the closest fan to hater ratio)
Geno (got a mii costume, more than any of us were expecting)

From 4

Chrom & Chorus Kids (thanks to that leak, At least Chrom got a costume)
Zoroark (alas, the curse of release timing)

Any more?

 

[Jubileus57]

People constantly tell them that Daisy is irrelevant and that she's done nothing notable in the Mario franchise,

Neither did Waluigi and people still support him

What a bunch of *******.

Now that's just plain mean. Besides not all Daisy supporters are as extreme as Mem(e)oryman and his brethrens. Some of them (like me for example) just wish for her to be playable because they like the character in the Mario Spinoff without making any fuss about it.

 

[TheMagic1]

Oh hey! A Daisy supporter that didn't claim some nonsense. I swear this never happens lol.

In the past, I thought that Waluigi was just as irrelevant as Daisy and also doesn't deserve a spot, but after looking deeper into it, it seems like his appearances do make sense. We all know that Waluigi was added to be a partner for Wario and a rival for Luigi right? However, that's what Nintendo wanted. Camelot, the people who made him, wanted an original character that they could mess around with and develop themselves. Waluigi in MT64 was made out to be this new villain character and was given a lot of attention in these games because of it. Sometimes he gets these hilarious cutscenes, other times he's the main villain of all things. And many people started to love Waluigi at this point and many people started to support him, but because Nintendo only sees him as a partner character and nothing else, they haven't done anything with him. I would say that he needs to appear in the brand new Wario Land title where he has a huge role for him to be in smash. I don't think giving him the spot is really doing him justice, but at least Waluigi joining smash is a bit reasonable and I could see why people would want him.

I can't say the same for Daisy. In pretty much all of the games she's been in, she either doesn't matter at all, she brings nothing to them, or she's simply there. Nintendo still keeps her around, but for what reason? Not because they care, but because they think she's normal to add into games now. If they really cared about her, then they would've mae her a huge part of the game's she's in, but they haven't done any of that stuff. Even in her first appearance, the devs didn't even care about her at all and she was just Peach, and they dropped her afterwards while still keeping Tatanga in the sequel because they felt that the princess formula in unoriginal. Imo she's just dragged on at this point and I feel like they should focus on someone else.

But those Daisy fans are certainly obsessive though. In case you were wondering, I actually like the video, I was referring to the comment section, and good god are these people terrible. All of them are constantly using groundless arguments, and whenever people show that they are, they get called a hater and they call them delusional. One of these people said that all of the people who think Daisy shouldn't be in smash are just as bad as the people who support slavery. Maybe I shouldn't have been too harsh but with people like these, it's close to impossible.