Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[kirbsmash]

there's no way to handle the next smash bros game in a way that's good for business or for fan appeal, that's what's bothering me the most

nothing can top ultimate, this is just a fact.

has you see the sales of this game? I don't think it will go away in a year.

 

[Deleted member]

there's no way to handle the next smash bros game in a way that's good for business or for fan appeal, that's what's bothering me the most

nothing can top ultimate, this is just a fact.

Oh, you could easily top it. The only people who will care and get angry about the roster are core fans, and they'll buy the game anyway.

There are plenty of aspects to Smash that could be improved in future iterations that could make a better game than Ultimate. A fighting game is not only about its characters, gameplay still takes top billing and there's always new things to try with that.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Oh, you could easily top it. The only people who will care and get angry about the roster are core fans, and they'll buy the game anyway.

There are plenty of aspects to Smash that could be improved in future iterations that could make a better game than Ultimate. A fighting game is not only about its characters, gameplay still takes top billing and there's always new things to try with that.

While I agree with you on some points, Smash is a crossover game. It's literally all ABOUT the characters.
Also Smash is not a fighting game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oh, you could easily top it. The only people who will care and get angry about the roster are core fans, and they'll buy the game anyway.

There are plenty of aspects to Smash that could be improved in future iterations that could make a better game than Ultimate. A fighting game is not only about its characters, gameplay still takes top billing and there's always new things to try with that.

I dunno. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite seems to say its the opposite.

Casual fans care about the roster more then the hardcore fans.

 

[KarneraMythos]

has you see the sales of this game? I don't think it will go away in a year.

What he means is that Ultimate is Sakurai's Magnum Opus, and it's definitely a tough act to follow now. Unless his magic (and his health) stays strong a decade from now, getting back everyone and adding more characters for the sequel is a pipe dream wish.

 

[staindgrey]

Barry is more on par with Rebecca. RE1, cameo in 3, Gaiden and Rev2

Sheerly by the numbers. But Barry wasn't the star of any of his games (you could try to make a case for Rev2, but it's pretty clearly Claire's/Moira's game), and Rebecca got to be a playable character in a mainline numbered game rather than a spinoff. Plus she starred in the Vendetta movie, putting her in company with Leon, Chris and Claire as the only canonical RE characters to star in the CGI movie trilogy.

It's a slim margin, but I'd put Rebecca just barely in the "main character" circle and Barry just barely out of it.

 

[LetterO]

Pretty sure Cuphead has no chance. If indie characters on Nintendo consoles aren’t gonna be playable then an xbox exclusive indie character is never happening.

No chance isn't even a statement that should be made anymore, unless they're explictly deconfirmed like Master Chief and Travis were.

 

[Deleted member]

While I agree with you on some points, Smash is a crossover game. It's literally all ABOUT the characters.
Also Smash is not a fighting game.

Characters are important, but not having a few of the more niche characters in future iterations won't kill sales potential. There's new characters to replace old ones, new modes, new mechanics, etc.

Also, yes, Smash is a fighting game. That's like saying Mario Kart isn't a racing game because it isn't exactly like Gran Turismo or Forza.

 

[staindgrey]

The thing about the FE characters is that:

a) Fire Emblem is a first party property.
b) besides Marth, all of them got in due to fortuitous happenstance (by which I mean "the timing was right for them").

If Smash Bros. was a Capcom fighting game, you can be damn sure we'd get all of Chris, Jill, Leon, Claire, Rebecca, Wesker and Nemesis, but since Smash is a Nintendo Fighting game, we can only get one (two if we stretch it), and it's more than likely going to be a protag (i.e. not Wesker or Nemesis).

Right. We're agreeing. I think we're agreeing.

Also, interestingly enough, Leon has yet to star in any of Capcom's many crossover fighting games. Jill's been in three, Chris three, Wesker 2, Nemesis 2. And yet Leon was the poster boy for all three Capcom-produced CGI movies, RE's only Gameboy game and three numbered mainline titles. It's partially why I feel like if Resident Evil is in Smash, it's going to be Leon.

 

[LetterO]

there's no way to handle the next smash bros game in a way that's good for business or for fan appeal, that's what's bothering me the most

nothing can top ultimate, this is just a fact.

They can just port the game for the next system.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Why is it that Nintendo vs. Capcom hasn't happened yet? Especially considering Capcom's history of crossovers.

I mean one would argue that besides Nintendo. Capcom is probably the only other gaming company that has variable versatile franchises.

Still much prefer Super Smash Bros. vs. Jump Stars.

 

[staindgrey]

No chance isn't even a statement that should be made anymore, unless they're explictly deconfirmed like Master Chief and Travis were.

Wait, Chief and Travis were explicitly deconfirmed? I missed that.

Source, anyone?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Who cares about Smash 6 when Ultimate came out 20 days ago.

I know, right? I'm not happy with all of the decisions that have been made, but 'Everyone is here' is magical and just can't be topped. Plus the CPUs even got a big bump so I can see this being supported for a while.

As below...

there's no way to handle the next smash bros game in a way that's good for business or for fan appeal, that's what's bothering me the most

nothing can top ultimate, this is just a fact.

has you see the sales of this game? I don't think it will go away in a year.

This is one of the things that weirds me out about having such a short round of DLC. This game sold unbelievably well already, and they know that people will want it supported for a long time. It makes literally zero sense for them to throw all of this away and get started on "Super Smash Brothers: Nobody is Here Edition" for a while, so the team can work on this exclusively. Nintendo knows that they'll be able to make bank with more DLC, so only 6 characters total (when Sm4sh got 7 with a less promising reception) is weird.

But it's Nintendo. Sometimes their decisions make you ask if they actually don't like money.

And yeah, Sakurai wants a break. Fine, take one. Let someone else handle the DLC. If I were Nintendo here, I'd fully commit to this as a "Games as Service" model - Overwatch is still coming out with new characters - since they would all sell. If Sakurai wants to take a break, he's perfectly at liberty to hand the reins for DLC to someone else so we can keep going. I know I'd like to see more instead of this dying within a year.

 

[LetterO]

Wait, Chief and Travis were explicitly deconfirmed? I missed that.

Source, anyone?

I don't have the links on hand, but Travis was deconfirmed in a livestream, and Chief was deconfirmed on Twitter.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite seems to say its the opposite.

Casual fans care about the roster more then the hardcore fans.

That's because major characters were cut and left the game very empty.

Cuts wouldn't be that drastic. TBH you can't keep porting Ultimate forever; complications would inevitably crop up, especially with rights for 3rd parties.

 

[Wademan94]

To be clear, I'm not arguing it has to be a Nintendo-specific choice. I simply feel that, if the goal is to get a Resident Evil character in, picking a design that has ties to Nintendo when so much of the series already has strong ties to Nintendo makes sense. For instance, putting in RE6/CGI movies Leon in over the RPD uniform Leon or RE4 Leon wouldn't make much sense. Or MvC3 Battlesuit Jill over the original REmake Jill.

Unless they decide one character in the series is far and away the most popular one despite no Nintendo ties (a la Cloud), I feel as though catering to Nintendo nostalgia is something they'll want to do. And I don't feel like anyone from RE fits that bill. Nintendo already has some of the most iconic and recognizable designs in the series on their consoles.

I mean they could be alternate costumes.

 

[KMDP]

Right. We're agreeing. I think we're agreeing.

Also, interestingly enough, Leon has yet to star in any of Capcom's many crossover fighting games. Jill's been in three, Chris three, Wesker 2, Nemesis 2. And yet Leon was the poster boy for all three Capcom-produced CGI movies, RE's only Gameboy game and three numbered mainline titles. It's partially why I feel like if Resident Evil is in Smash, it's going to be Leon.

Staind, I barely even know what I'm talking about with Resident Evil.

Someone in the company doesn't like Leon.

 

[Bionichute]

They can just port the game for the next system.

a port would still require getting all the rights to the characters, because this won't be happening after over half a decade and you can bet your ass that whatever agreements have been made won't be there then

hell in the time the next nintendo console comes out some of the companies here might go out of business, or we could all be dead, for all we know

 

[Deleted member]

yeah and like 20 other characters

Eh, **** them

Yeah and with 1/3 of the roster completely cut along the way.

As long as My Mains™ stay I don't care.

Sakurai is an EO fan, so we could get EO music with Joker.

God I hope so but 3rd Party DLC content was severely limited last time(SF only got remixes of two songs and Cloud happened while Bayo had the only thing resembling a proper music selection that got shamed this time around).
I'm pretty sure Joker's content wipp be solely Persona focused and we'd be lucky to even get non-P5 tracks.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

As long as My Mains™ stay I don't care.

True.

I'd feel the same if my boi stays. Considering the high demand and among the most requested characters ever I'm doubtful of his cut in the next game.

 

[staindgrey]

Staind, I barely even know what I'm talking about with Resident Evil.

Someone in the company doesn't like Leon.

Don't mind me. RE is my single favorite series. I nerd out when given the opportunity.

As much as I clamored for Daisy the last ten years, and as much as I love Fire Emblem, and as perfect as Young Link is, and as wonderful as it is for Zelda to finally be viable... if Chris or Jill got in as DLC, I will switch mains at the drop of a hat. Forever.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I think because Sakurai said the team for DLC is already smaller than the base game and will continue to shrink as the DLC progresses.

He said “The DLC” not “The Fighter Pass”. Not calling this pass something like “Fighter Pass 1” keeps us guessing and unsure. If they just up and revealed the second one before we knew the entire first one, it would loose hype. It’s the same reason they didn’t reveal the first one until the last direct.

 

[Wyoming]

Talking about cuts three weeks after release.

Never change, Smashboards.

Why are we discussing about a hypothetical sequel on an unknown system is beyond me. Everything they do depends om budget,, console power, scheduling, and brainstorming. These are factors not even Sakurai knows.

 

[staindgrey]

Slightly off topic, but since we're debating the nuance between saying "DLC" and "Fighters Pass":

Anyone else disappointed that SFV apparently doesn't have a fourth season and slashed their fight money output? Feels like the game's actually winding down.

I'm not ready for it to end. I love this game so much.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I dunno. Marvel vs Capcom Infinite seems to say its the opposite.

Casual fans care about the roster more then the hardcore fans.

Marvel vs Capcom 3 kind of pulled it off. While it lost some cool characters from 2, it got plenty of cool additions. Conversely, some cuts like the original characters probably didn't matter and it also managed to keep the damn X-Men.

Infinite lost a lot of core characters and more out there but still popular picks from 3 while only having a few new, hype characters to match.

 

[kirbsmash]

Slightly off topic, but since we're debating the nuance between saying "DLC" and "Fighters Pass":

Anyone else disappointed that SFV apparently doesn't have a fourth season and slashed their fight money output? Feels like the game's actually winding down.

I'm not ready for it to end. I love this game so much.

Kage is on fire tho

 

[Idon]

The problem with Capcom is that they're the only videogame company that even comes close to being as genre defining as Nintendo.

Like there's a reason why they and pretty much they alone can do the "Vs. Capcom" shtick.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

So they are adding more spirits in limited time events.
I'm pretty sure that all the missing spirits will be added this way, I'm sure that an Adeleine & Ribbon spirit (along with Taranza) will be added as soon as they will do a Kirby-themed event, I just hope I'll get a switch in time so I can get it.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys severely underestimate how much people care about Smash veterans considering Mewtwo was the single most requested character back in Smash 4 and the veterans completely destroyed any possible newcomers in the ballot.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'd do Resident Evil in Smash by having a base moveset that fits Leon, Chris, Jill, and Claire and just have a Koopaling situation.

 

[praline]

I’m sure Nintendo will make a season 2 of dlc with how well this game is selling. It might not be confirmed immediately after the fighter pass is done but I’m like 95% certain it will happen eventually.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The problem with Capcom is that they're the only videogame company that even comes close to being as genre defining as Nintendo.

Like there's a reason why they and pretty much they alone can do the "Vs. Capcom" shtick.

More the reason to why its shocking there hasn't been an Nintendo vs. Capcom considering the latter's history of crossovers.

 

[staindgrey]

Marvel vs Capcom 3 kind of pulled it off. While it lost some cool characters from 2, it got plenty of cool additions. Conversely, some cuts like the original characters probably didn't matter and it also managed to keep the damn X-Men.

Infinite lost a lot of core characters and more out there but still popular picks from 3 while only having a few new, hype characters to match.

Infinite also overhauled the core gameplay to turn it into a 2v2 system that relied less on incredibly long combos and assist choices. I prefer Infinite from a gameplay perspective, but it would be like if the next Smash Bros. eliminated platforms and every stage was now a walk-off. The last-gen-looking graphics, narrowed down roster, total gameplay overhaul and fickleness of the modern gaming community over social media all lead to its downfall.

Which is sad. It's fun to play. So was SFxTK, and that game was killed by its stupid gem system that nobody wanted.

 

[Guynamednelson]

and the veterans completely destroyed any possible newcomers in the ballot.

Shrek and Goku probably took up too many votes as well.

 

[kirbsmash]

You guys severely underestimate how much people care about Smash veterans considering Mewtwo was the single most requested character back in Smash 4 and the veterans completely destroyed any possible newcomers in the ballot.

THIS. Also people want the ice climbers back.

 

[KMDP]

I'd do Resident Evil in Smash by having a base moveset that fits Leon, Chris, Jill, and Claire and just have a Koopaling situation.

Sounds like the best solution to me.

 

[Bionichute]

Marvel vs Capcom 3 kind of pulled it off. While it lost some cool characters from 2, it got plenty of cool additions. Conversely, some cuts like the original characters probably didn't matter and it also managed to keep the damn X-Men.

Infinite lost a lot of core characters and more out there but still popular picks from 3 while only having a few new, hype characters to match.

i mean there is a fundamental difference between the jump from mvc2 to 3 and smash bros sequels. mvc2 was basically a dumping ground of reused assets with a handful of new characters. nobody actually expected it to be as popular as it was. obviously they couldn't translate every character from mvc2 into the third game because that would be absolutely ridiculous

ultimate is different in that it has everything from previous games, outside of a handful of stuff. there's a reason why everyone said that no cuts was impossible before release, because in most cases having every character from a previous game is an impossible task. there's basically nowhere to go from here aside from new characters, while mvc3 still had issues and stuff that people wanted to see fixed or added

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It has sold over 85 million units. Bests TOM CLANCY, Dragon Quest, STAR WARS, Halo, Tomb Raider, Just Dance, Donkey Kong, Crash, Metal Gear, Elder Scrolls, Monster Hunter, Tekken, Pac Man, Street Fighter, Uncharted, HARRY POTTER, DRAGON BALL, Super Smash Bros, Kirby, Mortal Kombat, Fall Out, Megaman, JAMES BOND, etc....

MANY franchises it's outsold including Smash itself and franchises with cross market appeal like Tom Clancy, Star Wars, James Bond, Dragonball, and Harry Potter.

Besides RE outselling Smash (cause that’s to be expected when you’re a game series with one title per generation), I’m shocked that it outsells DK, DBZ, Kirby, and Star Wars

 

[ClaTheBae]

Also Smash is not a fighting game.

What is it then? Literally the main mechanic is fighting. The VERY BASE MECHANIC is fighting. Everything in the game revolves around fighting. In order to win pretty much any mode, you have to fight. It is, for all intents and purposes, a FIGHTING game.

 

[Wyoming]

You guys severely underestimate how much people care about Smash veterans considering Mewtwo was the single most requested character back in Smash 4 and the veterans completely destroyed any possible newcomers in the ballot.

Exactly. Cutting a good chunk of the roster will most likely end up with most of them returning as paid DLC.

They're in a bind, but that's in 8+ years from now. Anything can change.