Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Shyy_Guy595]

Personally want Spyro, but if I'm honest, I kinda see Tracer getting in before him.

I still think Crash is probably likely and if he's not DLC, then I will actually be surprised.

 

[Idon]

i'd love that if TF2 didn't make me sad these days

i miss 2009. Well... not the year so much as 2009 era TF2.

I don't play it anymore, but I used to a LOT.

Sumpler times, then.

 

[Bionichute]

i'm basically just trying to rationalize a completely insane decision here, i don't really expect porky, but like, no excuse for why he's missing makes any sense

can't be because of spoilers, the earthbound spirits blatantly reveal who the masked man is, and reveal porky's fate at the end of the series. if you want to go farther into the rest of the game, new pork city already exists and has a giant, flashing EMPEROR PORKY sign in the dead center of it. can't get more blatant than that

can't be because he has no artwork. porky has clay artwork, which matches the clay artwork they use for the first two games. even with earthbound, they used sprites for all the mother 3 characters, so they obviously have no qualms with using sprites for earthbound specifically. on top of that porky has artwork from brawl, which they could use if they wanted to

the only reasons i can think of are that the absolutely safe capsule is supposed to represent porky in a bizarre meta joke (which imo is a pretty dumb reason to exclude a main villain) or they just... forgot???

like if the absolutely safe capsule had a fight attached to it and it very clearly showed that it was meant to represent porky, i'd be fine because i would have an actual answer to this question. but it doesn't, you can only get it through fusion

im just confused and need answers

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

“X character is lesbian, so it should be in” isn’t a strong point to support a character.

Tracer should be considered for anything else, and not just for that alone.

You're right, which is why I made it a point to say that she fulfills other roles and that it's simply "cool" that she happens to also be some form of representation

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Rate these characters chances.

Banjo-Kazooie
Dante
Erdrick
Lloyd Irving
Poochy
Sylux

Banjo-Kazooie: 20% (I don't think we're getting more than one Microsoft rep, and I just can't see characters from a dead franchise being prioritized over others with ongoing or upcoming games like Steve, Master Chief, or even a Battletoad. The fan demand is certainly there. The question is, do Microsoft and Nintendo care enough?)

Dante: 15% (Even though Joker opened the door to other potential newcomers not needing significant Nintendo history, Dante would probably have to be toned down a lot and his moveset might be redundant with Bayonetta already being playable.)

Erdrick: 40% (Dragon Quest is huge in Japan, and even though it's much smaller in the West, adding in a DQ rep that looks like Goku with a sword into one of the biggest crossover games of all time would win over a lot of people and be a great way to make the series bigger in the West. However, Dragon Quest is owned by a lot of different parties and Sora from the Kingdom Hearts series is more popular worldwide.)

Lloyd Irving: 30% (Bandai Namco still only has one rep in Smash despite assisting with development. However, Lloyd faces competition with Heihachi, whom Sakurai originally considered to include in Sm4sh, and Yuri Lowell.)

Poochy: 50% (Poochy is very marketable and would give the Yoshi franchise, which only has one rep despite being part of the "Original 8", a unique quadruped fighter. Only his yarn incarnation has a spirit, and the Yoshi's Woolly World stage from Sm4sh was cut in Ultimate without being replaced with a Yoshi's Crafted World stage. He would certainly be an unexpected pick and help promote one of Nintendo's upcoming games for the Switch. However, if Sm4sh's DLC and Joker are anything to go by, I'm not entirely sure if we'll get any first party newcomers aside from another Fire Emblem character.)

Sylux: 25% (Metroid already got a unique newcomer and an echo newcomer despite being an unpopular series in Japan. I couldn't see it getting another. Although, Nintendo probably doesn't care about "reps" anyways and likely just chose characters based on their own merits. Regardless, we still don't have any news on Metroid Prime 4, and Sylux wouldn't really be a hype-inducing character which could appeal to the masses. Just like Poochy, however, he would definitely be unexpected.)

 

[Pyra]

I don't play it anymore, but I used to a LOT.

Sumpler times, then.

I got about 500 hours in on TF2 and 1150 hours in Gmod back in the simpler times.
When OW came out, I suspect TF2 saw the popularity and changed itself around it and now it's just really hard for me to want to play now haha

 

[Deleted member]

You're right, which is why I made it a point to say that she fulfills other roles and that it's simply "cool" that she happens to also be some form of representation

I would also add the possibility of using official alternate costumes from Overwatch events in a similar way to Meta Ridley and the Koopalings as a plus.

 

[osby]

“X character is lesbian, so it should be in” isn’t a strong point to support a character.

Tracer should be considered for anything else, and not just for that alone.

They said it would be cool, not it's a reason why she should be in. They also gave good reasons to support her in the same post.

Why whenever someone even mentions representation some people act like it's the only reason the characters' fans want them?

 

[Pyra]

representation

this is the only part of your post and i am offended!!

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Oh yeah. Has anyone considered us getting Kratos for Smash? Totally impossible, right?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Oh yeah. Has anyone considered us getting Kratos for Smash? Totally impossible, right?

I'd honestly give even Sans better chances of getting before we ever get a Sony rep hell I'd even give Scorpion a better chance too. Unlike Microsoft who are buddy-buddy now with Nintendo. Sony is really redundant to get along with any other companies.

And I'm being generous.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Heihachi was never "planned" to be in. Sakurai only considered him and dismissed him after he couldn't figure out a way to make a working moveset(which is a bit vague, but he likely meant translating the 3D mechanics faithfully. He was able to translate the Attack Commands from Street Fighter over to Ryu faithfully, which is why it worked out). We don't know if anything has changed, so Heihachi may not even be on the table at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

They said it would be cool, not it's a reason why she should be in. They also gave good reasons to support her in the same post.

Why whenever someone even mentions representations some people act like it's the only reason the characters' fans want them?

Don’t take me as someone who hates representation just for making a reply too fast.
Because i am someone who would love to see Tracer in.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Besides Heihachi would be boring since all he'd be is Ryu 2.0. Same with Steve who'd just be Villager 2.0.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

spirits are a massive part of the game though??? saying that they're just images is a pretty dumb thing to say when they have unique fights connected to them, and actually have gameplay reasons to exist

trophies are basically just 3d models, and they didn't forget porky in the last two games there

Wait, you think that Porky's spirit (which is likely inside that capsule anyway, yuk yuk) is visually absent because he's supposedly a fighter?

that really has nothing to do with it? if porky is dlc then obviously they wouldn't want him to have a spirit in the game before release. sakurai literally could just say "don't put in a porky spirit in because we want to make him playable"

So you're suggesting that Sakurai having that connection to the spirits team after all, would order no spirit for Porky but also leave the Kirby spirits well enough alone? Sounds all the more like he doesn't care squat enough to have that bias against them at all, rather than him being conveniently inconsistent.

And by the logic that spirits disconfirm and those without spirits can get in, you do realize this opens to the door for Adeliene with that mindset right? Which contradicts the notion of bias even further.

and that has nothing to do with his biases

Which, regarding this whole Kirby ordeal, haven't even been proven.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah. Has anyone considered us getting Kratos for Smash? Totally impossible, right?

I would choose Jak, Ratchet or Fortesque over him, tbh.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Besides Heihachi would be boring since all he'd be is Ryu 2.0.

You forgot the '/s' part of your post

 

[osby]

Besides Heihachi would be boring since all he'd be is Ryu 2.0. Same with Steve who'd just be Villager 2.0.

I can already hear the intense typing noises of Tekken and Minecraft fans.

 

[Bionichute]

Wait, you think that Porky's spirit (which is likely inside that capsule anyway, yuk yuk) is visually absent because he's supposedly a fighter?

So you're suggesting that Sakurai having that connection to the spirits team after all, would order no spirit for Porky but also leave the Kirby spirits well enough alone? Sounds all the more like he doesn't care squat enough to have that bias against them at all, rather than him being conveniently inconsistent.

And by the logic that spirits disconfirm and those without spirits can get in, you do realize this opens to the door for Adeliene with that mindset right? Which contradicts the notion of bias even further.

Which, regarding this whole Kirby ordeal, haven't even been proven.

i feel like you're misunderstanding what i'm saying

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Same with Steve who'd just be Villager 2.0.

I said this many times before, and I'll say it again...

Calling Steve, Villager 2.0 would be like calling Banjo Kazooie, Duck Hunt 2.0

Basically, it makes no sense. So please, stop saying that.

 

[Deleted member]

Besides Heihachi would be boring since all he'd be is Ryu 2.0. Same with Steve who'd just be Villager 2.0.

Tekken plays different from Street Fighter in many ways, the most important being the 3D movement.

Steve is different from Villager even in the concept: the Villager is just a resident in a town, while Steve is an adventurer who collects minerals and any kind of material to build things.

 

[Bionichute]

I said this many times before, and I'll say it again...

Calling Steve, Villager 2.0 would be like calling Banjo Kazooie, Duck Hunt 2.0

Basically, it makes no sense

calling heihachi ryu 2.0 is both misleading for the character and also... kinda true

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I admit due to playing little of Tekken I cannot imagine how Heihachi would play, or how to make him interesting. That said, he has different mechanics from Ryu as is by being 3D, but we don't know how he could be translated. I don't like the idea of calling him a 2.0 of anyone. That misses the actual point. Likewise, Steve isn't really like Villager other than the fact they both carry random items. While both Ryu and Heihachi come from traditional fighters with a similar kind of controls, Villager and Steve are from vastly more different franchises with little similarities beyond the genre alone(and they can pick up items). Steve's focus is on combining items and creating stuff. This is what makes him different from a lot of other simulators. That's not a common thing. Besides his own design and unique weapons. Pickaxes, Swords... these aren't like anything Villager does.

 

[Deleted member]

calling heihachi ryu 2.0 is both misleading for the character and also... kinda true

The biggest question that i would have regarding him in Smash would be the way to translate the 3D gameplay from Tekken into the 2D one that Smash has.

 

[Schnee117]

PSASBR got Heihachi to work just fine, I don't see making Heihachi work as much of an issue as some make it out to be.

Besides Heihachi would be boring since all he'd be is Ryu 2.0. Same with Steve who'd just be Villager 2.0.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

i feel like you're misunderstanding what i'm saying

Then please elaborate, if you may. I mean, you seem to assume that Sakurai should tell the team "no spirit" for Porky if he's waiting to be revealed as a fighter per Sakurai or whoever's orders.

 

[Bionichute]

i don't really want heihachi in smash bros, like at all, but i'd be lying if i said he wouldn't have the best final smash

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

No, but for real, an RE rep is slept on.

We already have guns and crap in Smash, what's wrong with a little more from an established series full of pretty popular characters?

Dunno what stages or music they'd have tho.

 

[Will]

me no like fighting game

all other fighting game same

unga bunga

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Besides PSASBR already had Heihachi. Let someone else from Namco get in like Lloyd.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

As a longtime Blizzard fan I'd be super disappointed if Tracer was the pick to get into Smash. I know Overwatch is their current golden goose, and aesthetically she'd fit very well, but when we're talking about a company with such a long history, and with several series that innovated and helped change the industry, I'd rather pay homage to those first. Give me anyone out of Arthas, Diablo or Kerrigan before Tracer.

Although given recent events surrounding the company I'm honestly not sure I'd even want a Blizzard rep, their name leaves a bad taste in my mouth atm.

 

[Deleted member]

PSASBR got Heihachi to work just fine, I don't see making Heihachi work as much of an issue as some make it out to be.

Good point there.
Maybe Nintendo would be fine with taking that moveset in the same way they took Megaman’s Shoryuken from MvC.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

No, but for real, an RE rep is slept on.

Not nearly as much as an AA rep.

 

[KingofKoopas]

**** Heihachi, King and Armor King for Smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

**** Heihachi, King and Armor King for Smash.

Besides Heihachi if they were gonna pick someone else from Tekken. It'd be Jin Kazama. That's how I think it should go. PSASBR had Heihachi and Raiden. Smash could have Snake and Jin Kazama.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

They said it would be cool, not it's a reason why she should be in. They also gave good reasons to support her in the same post.

Why whenever someone even mentions representation some people act like it's the only reason the characters' fans want them?

Representation of a group of people shouldn't even be a factor for Smash Bros. characters

Seriously, who cares? Characters get in because they are video game icons, not because they fulfill some arbitrary quota.

Because the last thing I'm thinking about while Little Mac is beating the **** out of Pikachu is who he's horny for.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Deleted member]

No, but for real, an RE rep is slept on.

We already have guns and crap in Smash, what's wrong with a little more from an established series full of pretty popular characters?

Dunno what stages or music they'd have tho.

Trust me.
I’ve seen a lot of vocal demand for Leon Kennedy even outside of Smashboards.

The RE rep demand is huge.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Besides Heihachi would be boring since all he'd be is Ryu 2.0. Same with Steve who'd just be Villager 2.0.

We have a potted plant in the roster now. This argument that a character couldn't have a unique moveset is invalid. There are plenty of ways that Heihachi and Steve could be differentiated from those other characters.

 

[Will]

Besides PSASBR already had Heihachi. Let someone else from Namco get in like Lloyd.

PSASBR is dead. Why should his inclusion in a dead game be a reason to kick him out?

Why do we have Snake and Simon when they appeared in that other crossover game years ago on the GCN?

 

[KingofKoopas]

Besides Heihachi if they were gonna pick someone else from Tekken. It'd be Jin Kazama.

It always lands on the Mishima family... and their crazy drama and devil gene. To heck with that give us Jaguar Bois.