Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[SnakeFighter64]

It's not just about having them. Having 50 Bayonettas or peach's would be just as bad. It's about a diverse cast of shapes and personalities. With very few exceptions the girls in Smash are all very similar to each other. Compare Mario to Link. Or Snake. Or Ryu. Or Pikachu. They're all very different. Now compare Peach to Zelda. Compare Samus to Lucina. The only one who feels extremely unique personality wise is Bayonetta.

But then there'd be more females than males. If your idea of diversity is way more females than males, then I have to break the news that that isn't diverse at all.

ok but just gender swapping people doesn't create diversity or good female characters. It literally just makes them a male character who is now not male.

I feel like we're missing each other's points.

 

[praline]

It's the "youtube rewind" method of representation. Just have or mention [INSERT MINORITY] a certain amount and then boom, it's proper representation.


On God if someone gave me a ****ing pichu toy i'd slap the **** out of them

What’s wrong with you? Pichu did nothing wrong!

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Look at the male characters, now look at the female characters. Tell me which one is more diverse.

sorry, but making everyone female =/= diverse. You gotta have both sexes/all things to make something diverse

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What's going on here?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Does anyone actually care what gender they are if they're characters people actually like?

Maybe but Ill tell you what I care about, Your icon, where did you get it?

 

[SnakeFighter64]

: all very similar

Please tell me you are joking

I'm talking about personalities. Not looks. Granted I really only know these characters from smash, and I thought Dark Samus was supposed to be an asexual entity. But personality wise it feels like the women draw from a smaller pool than the men.

OK. I'm just gonna lay down my sword and shield and surrender because this fight is just gonna keep going around in circles.

 

[osby]

Does anyone actually care what gender they are if they're characters people actually like?

On a personal level? Yes, because gender is also a part of the character.

In general, it' doesn't matter much, but if you want to have a diverse cast of characters, a few girls wouldn't hurt.

 

[LetterO]

I'm talking about personalities. Not looks. Granted I really only know these characters from smash, and I thought Dark Samus was supposed to be an asexual entity. But personality wise it feels like the women draw from a smaller pool than the men.

If you only really know them from Smash then you shouldn't be going around saying they all have similar personalities.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

If you only really know them from Smash then you shouldn't be going around saying they all have similar personalities.

Well then maybe they should do more to bring out the uniqueness of their personalities in SMASH rather then forcing me to play their games to understand what makes them different.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm talking about personalities. Not looks. Granted I really only know these characters from smash, and I thought Dark Samus was supposed to be an asexual entity. But personality wise it feels like the women draw from a smaller pool than the men.

Similar personalities?

and could hardly be further from each other in terms of personality.

Peach and Lucina may both be princesses but they've got entirely different drives, outlooks and dreams.

I agree that there should be more female representation but selling the current reps short only hurts things.

 

[Double K]

I'm talking about personalities. Not looks. Granted I really only know these characters from smash, and I thought Dark Samus was supposed to be an asexual entity. But personality wise it feels like the women draw from a smaller pool than the men.

>all the girls are similar in personality

taking away characters where gender is a skin (Corrin, Villager, Robin, Inkling) and Nana who is a partner, and D. Samus

Bayonetta: Confident lady in control
Peach: 'Pretty Princess'
Daisy: Turbo Tomboy Princess
Zelda: Wise and calm ruler
Samus/ZSS: Badass military-type lady
Lucina: Light Novel protagonist, but a girl
Palutena: Dorky Goddess nerd
Shiek: Ninja

TOTALLY SIMILAR GUYS

 

[osby]

I'm talking about personalities. Not looks. Granted I really only know these characters from smash, and I thought Dark Samus was supposed to be an asexual entity. But personality wise it feels like the women draw from a smaller pool than the men.

OK. I'm just gonna lay down my sword and shield and surrender because this fight is just gonna keep going around in circles.

Half of the guys have the same serious action hero personalities on surface. Girls still have quite a lot variety, partially thanks to avatar characters.

Also, if you want diverse personalities, Smash isn't the best place.

 

[Idon]

Maybe but Ill tell you what I care about, Your icon, where did you get it?

The darkest depths of pixiv.

You don't know the things I've witnessed down there. I emerge from that place a changed man- a broken man.

 

[ClaTheBae]

I'm talking about personalities. Not looks. Granted I really only know these characters from smash, and I thought Dark Samus was supposed to be an asexual entity. But personality wise it feels like the women draw from a smaller pool than the men.

Look, diversity does not mean proper representation. Adding a bunch of people from an unrepresented group just to meet a quota or to say, "look at all of these girls/minorities we put in" is an extremely shallow form of being represented. Yes, women are underrepresented in not only smash, but media as a whole. But trying to make things like Ghostbusters, i.e. just making male characters have a different gender identity, is not how you create a well written, diverse cast. Just adding more isn't the way to make women more prominent in any cast whatsoever if they're only there to be a token woman

 

[Iridium]

Well then maybe they should do more to bring out the uniqueness of their personalities in SMASH rather then forcing me to play their games to understand what makes them different.

I don't mean to drag on this conversation, but I still don't see how they aren't unique. I mean, you can't say Sheik and Peach are even close to the same person, for example. The female characters still have different movesets, playstyles, taunts, animations, etc. (overall).

Shouldn't that be enough to prove that?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

The darkest depths of pixiv.

You don't know the things I've witnessed down there. I emerge from that place a changed man- a broken man.

How dark is dark because fall into those holes everday when I go treasure hunting on pixiv.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well then maybe they should do more to bring out the uniqueness of their personalities in SMASH rather then forcing me to play their games to understand what makes them different.

How so?

How does Bayonetta's playstyle not bring her personality across? How about Isabelle?

Heck, even Daisy's little animation quirks put across a different personality than the Princess she's copied from.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I don't mean to drag on this conversation, but I still don't see how they aren't unique. I mean, you can't say Sheik and Peach are even close to the same person, for example. The females still have different movesets, playstyles, taunts, etc.

Shouldn't that do enough to prove that?

Whatever. I'll just leave with my own personal hangups in tow and surrender. You win.

 

[Idon]

How dark is dark because fall into those holes everday when I go treasure hunting on pixiv.

Well...

I sorted by old and went up from there.

 

[osby]

How dark is dark because fall into those holes everday when I go treasure hunting on pixiv.

I still have zero idea how people can find anything on pixiv.

 

[KMDP]

I've finally reached...

Spoiler

Darkhon

...in the World of Light.

I'm... 99% sure that I've beaten every Spirit up to this point. I really wish there was like a checklist or something.

 

[Pyra]

I still have zero idea how people can find anything on pixiv.

The site is readable in English so presumably by... uh... using the search function

 

[Lollipopped]

So I take it there was an argument about the female characters, huh... Glad I wasn't here earlier, because I'm waaay too passionate about that particular subject. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Iridium]

Whatever. I'll just leave with my own personal hangups in tow and surrender. You win.

You don't have to take it like that...

It's just that we don't understand why the characters aren't unique to you. I don't want to look cruel or anything, but I'm just curious.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Whatever. I'll just leave with my own personal hangups in tow and surrender. You win.

I mean you're allowed to have your opinion, and you're completely justified in wanting more women in the game. But the fact of the matter is, most video game writers don't know how to write a female character. What we have in the game is as diverse as we're gonna get, and it's pretty damn good as far as most female casts go

 

[Double K]

Well then maybe they should do more to bring out the uniqueness of their personalities in SMASH rather then forcing me to play their games to understand what makes them different.

I mean if you can't see how Bayonetta "If you need to know how to treat a lady, go ask your mother!" is different from Lucina's whole "Reclaim the future" schtick, I think the problem is with you and not Smash

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's a topic, who do you think got the biggest buff in transition?

I'd say Pichu and Ivysaur.

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

The darkest depths of pixiv.

You don't know the things I've witnessed down there. I emerge from that place a changed man- a broken man.

Hm, in my short experience, I’ve never seen anything bad, but then again I only search for Ridley and Mewtwo stuff there or I haven’t gone down to the deepest, darkest depths. Speaking of, that’s where I got my Ben Swolo Ridley pfp.

 

[Wyoming]

OK. I'll say I don't like the gamecube controller and think it's bad compared to the standarised layout I'm used too.
And I've never watched top level Melee. All I know is that this game is way faster that Brawl and Smash4.

Melee's engine is really good for movement and speed. Ultimate has good organic pace and the engine is fairly solid, but Melee's just much faster on a technical level.

Movement is in bold because that's the key word. Due to the techniques and the leniency of the engine, the movement is extremely fluid and, once mastered, feels really good to play.

So far the general early consensus from top Melee players that I've seen is: "I like this game. It's not Melee/won't replace Melee, but it is enjoyable enough".

And that's fine. I think the way Smash is being handled now is the best way to move the series forward as a competitive game. Melee's fun to play and watch, but it also has an high skill ceiling due to its complexity. Ultimate's mechanics make it more accessible and consistent to progress down the line, and are much easier to understand.

Melee will die (everything comes to an end) but it will be due to the meta growing stale or GCN/Wii/CRTs all dying out. A GameCube mini is basically the only way Melee could survive the latter, and even then people wouldn't like the input lag of a modern TV/monitor. Not to mention Nintendo would fail once again to manufacture enough systems for making setups easy to obtain for tournament play/practice.

 

[QrowinSP]

Anyone else here hurting for a boss rush mode? I can't believe that wasn't added in. It would have been so easy.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Anyone else here hurting for a boss rush mode? I can't believe that wasn't added in. It would have been so easy.

Yeah, I'm hoping that they add it in as free DLC somewhere down the line. Maybe with a new page of Challenges.

 

[osby]

Here's a topic, who do you think got the biggest buff in transition?

I'd say Pichu and Ivysaur.

Palutena, thanks to taunt cancelling.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Here's a topic, who do you think got the biggest buff in transition?

I'd say Pichu and Ivysaur.

Pokemon trainer in general and Young Link.

Especially Young Link, cause he's one of the best characters in the game as of now, and he was only a mid tier before

 

[Lollipopped]

Are there any girls/ladies in this forum?

Yep.

 

[Gentlepanda]

heads up guys, screenshots of the second DLC just leaked and, well, let's just say it's looking pretty crisp

Spoiler: massive spoilers

 

[Iridium]

Here's a topic, who do you think got the biggest buff in transition?

I'd say Pichu and Ivysaur.

If I ignored nerfs for all characters, then I'd say perhaps (really wanted to say ).

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Well...

I sorted by old and went up from there.

ooooh

oh boy

 

[LetterO]

About Spirits.

I'm still not sure if they deconfirm or not, and im slightly siding with deconfirm. However, that's not to say the missing Spirits aren't suspicious. There seems to be a main 3 when it comes to missing spirits. Poochy, Sylux, and Porky.

Poochy and Sylux may just be promotional spirits like the Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee Spirits, but Porky baffles me. Porky is not present in the game at all. No spirit, no boss, no online icon, nada. The fact that Ness' Father and the Absolutely Safe Capsule are Spirits but Porky isn't really makes me think something is up. If he was being saved for a DLC boss, that doesn't explain why they couldn't still add an online icon or a Spirit of him in base game. I feel like he may just really be a character. I don't know why Nintendo would choose him, but I got a hunch that we may just see him.

 

[Wademan94]

So how’s everyone doing toda-

“Sees previous arguments”

Later.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I mean if you can't see how Bayonetta "If you need to know how to treat a lady, go ask your mother!" is different from Lucina's whole "Reclaim the future" schtick, I think the problem is with you and not Smash

You don't have to take it like that...

It's just that we don't understand why the characters aren't unique to you. I don't want to look cruel or anything, but I'm just curious.

OK. I've said a couple times that Bayonetta is the exception and people are still using her against me. So....

Secondly, I don't really know. Especially in this game, Zelda, Peach, Daisy and Isabelle all seam very similar. Peppy, cheery, sassy ladies. Then Samus, Sheik, and Lucina both come across as silent stoic warriors. The avatar characters are kind of different (Inkling especially), but they also all have a Male counterpart so it feels like it shouldn't count/ Bayonetta's really different, but she's the only one. Palutena certainly has that kind of nerdy goddess personality, but if you don't know about the Guidances then you don't get any of it. So she just falls in with Samus and co.

So... that. That's where I'm coming from. This is what I got from them JUST from playing Smash. (BTW, previous Zelda's would have been in with Samus and co.)

And along those lines, Fatal Frame's Ouse Kurosawa should join the roster.

About Spirits.

I'm still not sure if they deconfirm or not, and im slightly siding with deconfirm. However, that's not to say the missing Spirits aren't suspicious. There seems to be a main 3 when it comes to missing spirits. Poochy, Sylux, and Porky.

Poochy and Sylux may just be promotional spirits like the Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee Spirits, but Porky baffles me. Porky is not present in the game at all. No spirit, no boss, no online icon, nada. The fact that Ness' Father and the Absolutely Safe Capsule are Spirits but Porky isn't really makes me think something is up. If he was being saved for a DLC boss, that doesn't explain why they couldn't still add an online icon or a Spirit of him in base game. I feel like he may just really be a character. I don't know why Nintendo would choose him, but I got a hunch that we may just see him.

Especially if the DLC characters franchises get spirits of their own, I could totally see new World of Light paths being added with new bosses. I'd love it if they brought back Rayquaza, Porky, and Tabuu as bosses. Maybe Verge's Ender Dragon. Sans! I liked world of light. Had a blast playing it (and I was expecting to hate it). So I'd love to get more.