Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[rat.jpg]

It's not racist, Mr Sandman is not black.

He is actually of Puerto Rican descent

I didn't need to mention his ethnicity for you to make the connection so that's the proof right there

I guess I'm the only person on here who doesn't get into fan fiction!!

Doesn't your avatar count as fan fiction

 

[Iridium]

Okay...

Ultimate's glitch game is strong right now.

 

[SlickWylde]

I didn't need to mention his ethnicity for you to make the connection so that's the proof right there



Doesn't your avatar count as fan fiction

You better watch your mouth! >: ()

(I lost a bet, normally I have myself portraying the character Slick Wylde as an avatar)

 

[Luigifan18]

You're not being entirely fair to both the context and narrative of Naoto though. First off, we have the obligatory Western values applied on to a Japanese frame of mind. That doesn't make how it handles gender and sexuality all that much better, but you do have to keep in mind the particular stereotype that Naoto is specifically attacking is the male domination of certain careers. Naoto in no way was ever supposed to be a trans character in the game. She dresses up as male to avoid the stigma of a female in the detective world, which is the crux of her entire story line. It's not Naoto entirely wants to transition to male, she's more interested in the perks and struggling to come to terms with the fact she is female in a world that favors male individuals. She is struggling for identity, yes, but her character never gets framed as actively wanting to transition. Coming to grips with her femininity is her ultimate end goal as a character and that relationship. It always was. The trans label is something certain communities applied to her after the fact. She's discovering her identity, and that ends up as a woman. A role she is very comfortable with by the end of the game. That's the way the story is told and her character is developed.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and argue that Persona is a paragon of LGBT representation. It most certainly is not and the more LGBT related storylines are not particularly well written or handled well for the Western context of identity. But that's just it, we're applying a western lens to a Japanese made video game where the context and meaning vastly differ from our understanding. Japan has some big problems with those regards to, but Naoto (And Kanji as well for that matter) just weren't ever meant to be adopted by the LGBT community as they were. Again, I think that speaks to a quality of writing that those ideas were left on the table like that, but their character arcs were always about coming to grips with their identities in a world that didn't allow for that. Kanji has feminine qualities and doesn't know how to reconcile those, so he acts hyper masculine. Naoto uses masculinity because she feels insecure with her femininity.

As someone in the LGBT community, I took a moment at these as well. But then I realized why this was happening and just how much of my own ideology I had been projecting on to those characters. Again, their not masterfully or tactfully written, but they're also nowhere near as toxic as your displaying them with regards to at least Naoto and Kanji from Persona 4. The other games may have bigger issues with specific characters, so I can't really speak to those.




Anyway, as for Geno. Seems like the past couple days have been rough on the fan base. I think when you factor in that we might not have any new information about DLC characters until well after February and I think it makes sense to take a bit of a break from speculation. We know the first two post-release characters already and the game just came out, so new information is going to be hard to come by for the immediate future. Joker doesn't specifically really do much to inspire confidence in his chances either.

I also think, for those throwing in the towel, this has been a cycle that should have been it. To have supported a character through thick and thin for a decade, and then have all the factors begin lining up in his favor in a way previously thought impossible (Geno recognized, fan requests getting in, Square on board) and then him missing the boat on the base roster just stings. I've mentioned it before, but it feels kind of like now or never for Geno given everything going in favor of him and the situation... But each time an announcement is made the faith wavers more and more. People pushed so hard for the base game and believed in him so much, and the same for DLC 1. Neither of those coming true hurts a lot.

I don't blame anyone for bowing out now. But I will say, despite a more grim outlook we've got four more chances (or however many until we get a Square rep) to see Geno show up DLC wise. That might be actually forever from now, but it's not over quite yet. A second season of DLC would also significantly give us a better shot, so we as Smash communities generally need to push for that as well.

Agreed, there's a difference between "wanting to change one's biological gender because it doesn't match one's mental gender" and "wanting to conceal one's biological gender to avoid glass ceilings and other harsh gender-role negativity".

Yikes. Unfortunate implications much?

It's not racist, Mr Sandman is not black.


He is actually of Puerto Rican descent

Try explaining that to an SJW (pro tip: many of them are as ignorant as the racist trash they (claim to) detest).

I didn't need to mention his ethnicity for you to make the connection so that's the proof right there

Case in point... (No, I'm not saying that rat.jpg is a brain-dead virtue signaler; I'm saying that he's saying what I'm saying (that Mr. Sandman looks black enough that people who can't be bothered to do any research before ranting online are going to assume that he's black).)

 

[ClaTheBae]

After what he did with Paz, I don't know what's on his mind when it comes to spirits, overall.

>Paz's spirit starts you off with a Bob-Omb

Sakurai what the **** is wrong with you

 

[Cutie Gwen]

>Paz's spirit starts you off with a Bob-Omb

Sakurai what the **** is wrong with you

I really hope it's just because she tried to cause a nuke launch

 

[Icedragonadam]

I think that's the point with some of the spirit battles like Paz. It's so offensive and crosses the line multiple times that it revolves back to being funny.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Try explaining that to an SJW (pro tip: many of them are as ignorant as the racist trash they (claim to) detest).

I didn't need to mention his ethnicity for you to make the connection so that's the proof right there

I was making a dunkey reference guys.



For clarity, I am in the party of disagreeing with portraying black people as any sort of ape. It's got like, historical context, man

 

[Noipoi]

Who's Paz?
What's wrong with her Spirit Battle?

 

[Idon]

Man you guys take these Spirits things so seriously lol. I thought it was a throwaway thing, I guess I'm the only person on here who doesn't get into fan fiction!!

Nah, I think it's super dumb too.

At the same time though, I'm pretty damn bored when I don't have Smash to play.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Who's Paz?
What's wrong with her Spirit Battle?

Paz is a MGS character, her spirit battle is supposed to reference her secretly being a bad guy and trying to launch a nuke in Peace Walker but it can be seen as a reference to her death in MGSV GZ, in which she died due to a bomb that was planted in her vagina

 

[staindgrey]

Guys.

...

I think I'm becoming a Corrin main.

Help.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Who's Paz?
What's wrong with her Spirit Battle?

Idk if it's spoilers since it happens at the beginning of the game but she's a girl that you rescue at the beginning of MGSV. She's pretty young and numerous audio clips you can obtain in-game imply that she had suffered sexual abuse while imprisoned. When you finally rescue her, it is revealed that the people who imprisoned her put a bomb inside of her womb (or vagina), and then she jumps off the chopper and explodes (kinda)

Pretty dark for sakurai to reference that whole thing

 

[Noipoi]

Paz is a MGS character, her spirit battle is supposed to reference her secretly being a bad guy and trying to launch a nuke in Peace Walker but it can be seen as a reference to her death in MGSV GZ, in which she died due to a bomb that was planted in her vagina

Vagina bombs, huh? Metal Gear gets crazy...

Guys.

...

I think I'm becoming a Corrin main.

Help.

Embrace It.

 

[SlickWylde]

Nah, I think it's super dumb too.

At the same time though, I'm pretty damn bored when I don't have Smash to play.

Oh, I don't mean it's dumb. I'm just surprised with how much detail this community looks into stuff. I would never look at a spirit and go "Well does this fit thematically with their universe?" (Then again I stopped playing WOL after about 20 minutes due to boredom so I'm obviously not the audience)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Idk if it's spoilers since it happens at the beginning of the game but she's a girl that you rescue at the beginning of MGSV. She's pretty young and numerous audio clips you can obtain in-game imply that she had suffered sexual abuse while imprisoned. When you finally rescue her, it is revealed that the people who imprisoned her put a bomb inside of her womb (or vagina), and then she jumps off the chopper and explodes (kinda)

Pretty dark for sakurai to reference that whole thing

**** man I just remembered it's implied Paz was sexually abused in Peace Walker and there's an easter egg where you can knock her out and then eat her out. At least your comrades call you out if you do it I suppose?

 

[KarneraMythos]

>Paz's spirit starts you off with a Bob-Omb

Sakurai what the **** is wrong with you

From now on, I'm going to bring up Paz whenever detractors try to downplay Saber for coming from an eroge novel, just in case Bayonetta alone can't supply enough "ammo" to shut down the sexualization argument.

 

[staindgrey]

in which she died due to a bomb that was planted in her vagina

What.

 

[War Anvil]

I really hope it's just because she tried to cause a nuke launch

It's lighting a fire up everyone's butt, IIRC, thanks to Paz having one or two bombs surgically implanted in her.

 

[staindgrey]

Emrace It.

But I don't want to. I like all the other FE characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What.

When people say Kojima is mad, we're not always saying that because of the smart things he did. Cause Paz's death feels like a 'gotcha' moment cause there was already a bomb in her stomach before getting surgery to remove it only for Kojima to pop in and talk about his weird fetishes

 

[rat.jpg]

Can we not talk about Paz's vagina

Has anyone cleared WoL yet
I'm only halfway through

 

[ClaTheBae]

there's an easter egg where you can knock her out and then eat her out

what the absolute **** I didn't know this

Kojima what happened during your childhood

 

[Idon]

What.

MGSV's villain is all kinds of ****ed up.
Though, I suppose all of them are, but MGSV is a special case of being uncomfortably close to reality.

 

[Noipoi]

But I don't want to. I like all the other FE characters.

That may be true, but this isn't FE. This is Smash. In Smash Corrin is pretty cool, in Fire Emblem Corrin sucks.

That's how I rationalize my love/hate relationship with the character at least.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Because Mr Sandman was the final boss of Punch-Out Wii, and Donkey Kong was the true final boss of title defense.

Also Donkey Kong is a heavyweight with a lot of punching moves.

and like how Tac is with the Villager because they Tac steals and Villager pockets everyones ****.

The dark skinned villagers were light skinned like the rest too in an early build too before they were changed sooo lol

 

[ClaTheBae]

**** man I just remembered it's implied Paz was sexually abused in Peace Walker

There's also the audio recordings where it sounds like Skull is forcing chico and her to-

. . .why is this series in smash holy mother of God

 

[KingBroly]

Can we not talk about Paz's vagina

Has anyone cleared WoL yet
I'm only halfway through

I have cleared it.

 

[staindgrey]

That may be true, but this isn't FE. This is Smash. In Smash Corrin is pretty cool, in Fire Emblem Corrin sucks.

That's how I rationalize my love/hate relationship with the character at least.

Fair point.

It's just... in a game where I *finally* get Daisy, and Chrom/Lucina/Female Robin are all somehow in the game, and Zelda is finally not a trash character, and Young Link is the BEST Link we've ever had, and we have Inklings...

I find so far that Corrin is easily my best character.

God. Damn. It.

 

[rat.jpg]

I have cleared it.

Did you mix up characters or just use one when playing it

 

[Bee Card]

just a test


edit : it works !

 

[Idon]

There's also the audio recordings where it sounds like Skull is forcing chico and her to-

. . .why is this series in smash holy mother of God

Because Kojima and Sakurai are buds.

**** man I just remembered it's implied Paz was sexually abused in Peace Walker and there's an easter egg where you can knock her out and then eat her out. At least your comrades call you out if you do it I suppose?

I... don't remember this. The only thing I do remember regarding Paz and easter eggs is like, her humming to Chiko.

 

[KingBroly]

Did you mix up characters or just use one when playing it

I stuck with 4-5 characters throughout. Certain situations require a switch off, or better spirits, IMO.

 

[RyuhoFox]

I didn't need to mention his ethnicity for you to make the connection so that's the proof right there



Doesn't your avatar count as fan fiction

You didn't need to mention it because it was blatantly obvious what you were hinting at.

 

[Luigi The President]

Hype 4

1. Geno
2. Dovahkiin
3. Banjo-Kazooie/Steve/Master Chief
4. Katalina

 

[ClaTheBae]

From now on, I'm going to bring up Paz whenever detractors try to downplay Saber for coming from an eroge novel, just in case Bayonetta alone can't supply enough "ammo" to shut down the sexualization argument.

Well, Paz's situation isn't quite porn

 

[alemerltoucanet]

But I don't want to. I like all the other FE characters.

Use them all then! :D

 

[Deleted member]

I'm pretty sure the Mr. Sandman thing is just an unfortunate implication but man, whoever was doing these Spirit Battles really needs to stop, take a deep breath, look at what they've done and ask themselves "is this acceptable?"

 

[Zeox]

My first character to unlock was Ness, the nemesis of the character I want more in Smash.
The last character to unlock was Bowser Jr., my new main in Smash 4.

I thought it was curious.

 

[RyuhoFox]

Well, Paz's situation isn't quite porn

To be fair tmk there actually isn't that much sex in the main route of Fate/Stay Night. It's not so much an eroge as it is a story that contains a bit of it.