Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Iridium]

Another thing I just learned is that on the website, if you click on the fighter when you're on their page, you get a different alt now (desktop). Even for Piranha Plant. Or shake the screen instead (mobile). Nice addition.

 

[Deleted member]

Use Dedede.

Two good hits and they're out, that's how I unlocked everybody.

Good advice, I'll try it. Thanks!

...Although the stubborn part of me wants to do it with Inklings or K. Rool, 'cause it's really satisfying it do with your mains, lol.

 

[WaxPython]

Doesn't matter.
You'll still get thrown into a 4 player Free for all with items.

Legit tho

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dang, I am losing all of these Challenger Approaching matches. Sakurai really beefed 'em up this time. Only complaint I have is the cool down timer; that is kinda dumb. Just let me rematch them 'till I win, please.

Still not done, lol. I keep thinking "This is the night I do it!" and then I end up still missing some, lol. I like the lengthy process, though; gives me a lot to do for single player shenanigans, and I haven't even started WoL yet! This game will keep me busy for months, and I love that.

Yeah the AI is very inconsistent this time around, sometimes we have an even match, sometimes the AI absolutely bodies me and sometimes I just go big brain and spam dash attack and win in 2 hits

 

[Shroob]

It isn't a "Do it with Zelda" challenge, it just unlocks a Zelda related picture

Welp, actually just checked.

It says:


Zelda


"Clear intensity 9.9"

 

[Idon]

Here's a tip.
If there's a walkoff... just stand over there and backthrow them when they approach you.

 

[Blargg888]

So, I remember people saying that Dr. Mario's Sheet reflects projectiles upwards, but in practice, it hasn't done that for me once.

So what's the deal there?

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah the AI is very inconsistent this time around, sometimes we have an even match, sometimes the AI absolutely bodies me and sometimes I just go big brain and spam dash attack and win in 2 hits

K. Rool pummel to dash attack is a pretty consistent strategy on walk-off stages.

Then there's A.I. like Cloud, Olimar, and Palutena where they straight up go Ultra Instinct and destroy you. I was able to beat Cloud second try with Inkling, and dang it was satisfying. I'm really hoping patches don't change the CPUs, honestly; I like them the way they are right now.

 

[Iridium]

So, I remember people saying that Dr. Mario's Sheet reflects projectiles upwards, but in practice, it hasn't done that for me once.

So what's the deal there?

I don't think it does that. It's just the animation that has him fling his cape upwards, so that's probably why.

Not sure why the animation had to be changed, honestly.

 

[osby]

K. Rool pummel to dash attack is a pretty consistent strategy on walk-off stages.

Then there's A.I. like Cloud, Olimar, and Palutena where they straight up go Ultra Instinct and destroy you. I was able to beat Cloud second try with Inkling, and dang it was satisfying. I'm really hoping patches don't change the CPUs, honestly; I like them the way they are right now.

I'm honestly surprised so many people are having trouble with Palutena. Her AI was pretty mediocre in the last game.

 

[N3ON]

Welp, actually just checked.

It says:


Zelda


"Clear intensity 9.9"

I've beat it, you don't need Zelda.

The name corresponds to the picture.

But yeah, you won't be able to use continues if you want to end on 9.9.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm honestly surprised so many people are having trouble with Palutena. Her AI was pretty mediocre in the last game.

She likes spamming her counter and fire orb thingy. Makes it hard to approach. I almost got her, but unfortunately rolled into her forward-smash.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Considering the staggeringly-low amount of my Most-Wanted in lists that contain Namco characters, I know how you feel. It sucks not being considered. Here's to hoping you guys get Geno, be it in this Fighter's Pass, or another if we get more beyond the 5 that Reggie solidified.



Oh boy! [rubs palms together with excitement] So glad we're back to THIS discussion ever since Joker dropped, because everyone loves talking about Stingy Square-Enix's Second fighter!
View attachment 182413

All jokes aside, let's see what you have to say...


I'm juggling ideas in my head where the most likely candidates for Smash right now can follow up on two principles if need be: How they would receive invitations in their universe, and which genres/milestones we have yet to cover in Smash. There's still a few out there that Sakurai may want to explore. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the Fighter's Pass is made up of Joker, two Square-Enix reps, and two Namco reps. Bam, 3 characters per 3rd-party franchise in Smash so far. Sure, that means no Doomguy, Travis, or Banjo, but the sheer popularity of the choices can warrant a Fighter's Pass 2. There's still room for icons out there.



Personally, I have high doubts about another Square rep until I'm proven otherwise, but assuming Square would like to stick a different guest character in each crossover, we can probably check off characters like Noctis and 2B. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if either are considered anyway, and that's if the whole leaked list is a bunch of bogus.



I wonder what would have happened if the series never had Toriyama's influence over the character designs. It's still interesting how a rep is possible, and how it would be the closest thing to having Goku in Smash, but that's if Erdrick is even considered over Slime and Luminary. DM me some stuff these guys can do. I'm interested in what we might get if we do get a Dragon Quest rep.



A case for the "western relevancy" argument: A character shouldn't be considered for Smash just because they're well-known in a region of the world. I feel it's enough that we have Mario and Pikachu in the roster to sway most of the casual fanbase. Deeper down in the iceberg are the actual fans of the Smash series, and by that, I mean people who stick to the games and not give up on them in a week or so like casual console owners do. I'm indifferent to Dragon Quest itself, but I don't think its low presence in the West is a mark against it. That goes for any franchise so long as it's popular enough in one region.



As someone who's been following the franchise's growth from afar, I feel like I'd be going full circle with Sora's inclusion in Smash. He's also memed as a suggestion as much as Cloud used to be, and we got him. There's another disadvantage he has though, and it's Kingdom Hearts III being Sony-exclusive. It's possible that the port could be a timed-exclusive, otherwise why promote a game the Switch won't have? With Joker included in Ultimate, Persona 5 is all but confirmed on the Switch (eventually). It's reasonable to believe that Sora's latest game will follow suit.



I'll say it one last time, so assume that all arguments toward a character's recognizability world-wide applies to any candidates below: A character should not be denied consideration for Smash just because Tiny Terry, Grandma Smith, and Rambunctious Randal from the grocery store at the corner haven't heard of them. We have all of the heavy-hitters with casuals and most fan-favorites are already in the game (if we're still talking about world-wide popularity here). Geno has no issue with the general userbase because it's the nature of Smash to promote characters that people haven't heard of.

My only counter-argument toward Geno's inclusion is what promoting him even means. He could be playable and that would certainly put him on people's radar, but what exactly would he even promote? I feel like Square would need something major planned for him that would warrant his inclusion. Perhaps another Triple AAA Mario game that features Geno as an important character? There needs to be some incentive for buyers getting Geno. Like with Joker, there's the game tie-ins, so as long as Square does something about that, he's fair game. Otherwise, it's my only argument against his inclusion, but I wouldn't oppose his inclusion overall.



I think the most likely outcome if we get a Final Fantasy character is one that evokes more of the classic vibes from the originals. Sephiroth just seems the least likely out of all of them, since he would be the first unique character repping as a second newcomer from the same game. I have nothing against the idea of it since I support character choices like Chun-Li for the same reasons, but Sephiroth feels a tad redundant. Bartz, Onion Knight, and Terra just seem more interesting in comparison, and this is coming from someone with no history with the franchise.



Lara Craft feels weird, from an aesthetic point of view. She feels like a movie character first, and her toolkit is pretty basic outside of spy movie tier acrobatics. I honestly dunno what I'd feel about having her in Smash, but I am not going to count her out of it.



I know a Gexaholic since the Brawl days. Still friends with that rascal. It'd be funny if he ends up getting him for real though.



Very true. If Square Enix wants to promote both/either Crono and Geno, they would need to tie in a game that will grab people's interests in the characters so that their presence is justifiable. Otherwise, how could you possibly learn about them if their games aren't (going to be) available as well? Promotional stuff should work for the developer and the userbase.



Neku is a Dark Horse pick, personally. I know a few friends who would be jazzed to have him playable. He's honestly the next best thing if Sora doesn't make it in.



So you're saying Agnès still has a chance then. I don't see why relevance is an issue when Bravely Default 3 could still happen. Hell, the first two games can see a port in the Switch if they want to advertise her. If Joker's entrance is any indication, accompanying ports just make a lot of sense.



Uhhh, no? Where the hell did you get that from? If anything, Joker's inclusion changed the tides of speculation. It opened the gateway to the idea that 3rd-party reps can get into Smash even if they're seemingly absent on Nintendo systems, so long as there are plans to promote that character's game within the Switch's life cycle. Like Joker, 2B's inclusion would imply a NieR: Automata port to the Switch.

Keep in mind, I am aware that Joker isn't this miracle, "RULE BREAKAHHH" that some people are harping on, but his announcement raises questions about which characters are fair game. At the moment, anything like Master Chief and Kratos are out of the question because they're the Samus and Link of Microsoft and Sony in particular. 2B isn't necessarily restricted by Sony nor is she held away from becoming a multiplat protagonist.



Controversial Opinion:

Spoiler

There is no Square-Enix rep. No one from the company is getting in. They all have 0 chances for other, larger reasons than what was written.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't welcome another one, so long as we don't run into another Cloud dilemma :L

EDIT: Christ almighty, do these brackets **** things up for me. Finally organized everything :L

Gee willikers this is a mess of formatting.

That being said, you do raise some good points.

On 2B, I'd agree with you if Joker hadn't had a known Nintendo appearance for over a year with Persona Q2. Similar to Cloud and Snake, Joker has tangential Nintendo appearances, but he still has one. 2B does not.

Your argument about Geno's popularity would hold true if this weren't Square Enix, a third party company. They've only got so many shots to get a character in Smash, and adding Geno over another character actually means something. If he were first party I would agree, but he isn't.

Your point on Agnes is good though, and if the Octopath team is indeed currently working on a Bravely Default 1 & 2 Port or Bravely Default 3, then I give Agnes good chances.

 

[Idon]

I honestly don't know where this praise on the AI difficulty comes from.
It's not... hard to make hard AI. It just means they read your inputs and parry/dodge/counter whenever you try to hit.

The objective is making AI that's fun to fight.

 

[Blargg888]

I don't think it does that. It's just the animation that has him fling his cape upwards, so that's probably why.

Not sure why the animation had to be changed, honestly.

TBH, I think they did it because it looks more like Dr. Mario lifting a sheet off a bed.

I do like the new look, personally.

 

[Iridium]

Given the fact that Earth, Ranai, aMSa, 9B and even Kakera were all testers for Ultimate, I wonder what specific stuff with the game did they get involved with. Not sure we'll ever know, but I want to.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Sorry guys, you may not like this but..

Fortnite boy is coming to Smash

 

[Deleted member]

I honestly don't know where this praise on the AI difficulty comes from.
It's not... hard to make hard AI. It just means they read your inputs and parry/dodge/counter whenever you try to hit.

The objective is making AI that's fun to fight.

I think they're fun. They seem pretty decently designed this go around IMO.

 

[Iridium]

Sorry guys, you may not like this but..
View attachment 182475
Fortnite boy is coming to Smash

Uh...huh. Never get tired of seeing things like this...

Not sure I want to imagine myself saying Fortnite snuck its way into EVO, if you know what I mean.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sorry guys, you may not like this but..
View attachment 182475
Fortnite boy is coming to Smash

I think a lot of people went from "Haha funny meme" to "Oh god this is a possibility" about this after Joker

 

[Folax]

Hoping Kid Dracula makes it in as a left side dlc lol

 

[Will]

I was mad because I had cleared Richter's Classic mode with a 9.8 and I was just sitting there seething for a solid 20 minutes. How the hell are your increased points determined because I would've had it if it weren't for that one .4 increase.

Sorry guys, you may not like this but..
View attachment 182475
Fortnite boy is coming to Smash

If this was on the Switch version I'm dumping this pic in the garbage.

 

[Sari]

So, I remember people saying that Dr. Mario's Sheet reflects projectiles upwards, but in practice, it hasn't done that for me once.

So what's the deal there?

In one of the only pre-release footages of Doc, he used his cape when a launch star was thrown. The launch star automatically moves up when thrown so people thought it was like that for all projectiles.

 

[Will]

So, I remember people saying that Dr. Mario's Sheet reflects projectiles upwards, but in practice, it hasn't done that for me once.

So what's the deal there?

He meant that he literally throws his cape/diploma/idk up, not the item.

 

[DarthEnderX]

*whew*

Just finished unlocking my last character. Was having trouble winning the unlock fights after awhile till I just started spamming the fights with Ike's side-B.

Now I can just relax and enjoy the rest of WoL and Classic Mode.

 

[Will]

So is Pit the only person who knows that TP Link got ****ing exiled or something from Smash lore

 

[Deleted member]

Lol, Palutena was my last unlock, I guess. Got everyone now! Gonna finally start work on WoL tomorrow and also join in on the poor match making pain train online.

This game is so much fun. :D

 

[Idon]

So is Pit the only person who knows that TP Link got ****ing exiled or something from Smash lore

Yeah, becaues Pit's the only character that has achieved self-awareness as a videogame character.

 

[Will]

Yeah, becaues Pit's the only character that has achieved self-awareness as a videogame character.

Now that I think about it, the entire cast of TP got nuked.

RIP Twilight Princess universe, got killed by Galeem

 

[ClaTheBae]

Man I am super disappointed by WoL. I gave it a chance and I'm gonna beat it because I want to see what you get at the end but good Lord the actual fights range from kinda boring to literally almost impossible. There are so many frustrating spirits that are completely lacking in fun or enjoyment.
my most recent run-in with one was with the Dr. Wily spirit.
In case you don't know, it's a stamina match in which you have 120 hp while every opponent has 100. You have to fight eight Metal Megamans, two at a time, and then Dr Mario without losing 120 hp. Even with spirits this fight is ridiculous. It's not challenging, it's stupid. And there are plenty of other ones like that in the game. It is greatly discouraging.

 

[WaxPython]

Best Pokemon for Blue DLC imo

 

[Condenir]

Using Zelda is a pretty good way to clear 9.9 classic difficulty.
A lot of the opponents she fights have walk offs, so throwing them off the stage quickly will get you high points.
Also in her fight against Ganon, she can just teleport to his tail and up/side smash him for good damage.

Lol I wasn’t even aiming to clear 9.9...it just kinda happened by doing this LOL

 

[WaxPython]

Man I am super disappointed by WoL. I gave it a chance and I'm gonna beat it because I want to see what you get at the end but good Lord the actual fights range from kinda boring to literally almost impossible. There are so many frustrating spirits that are completely lacking in fun or enjoyment.
my most recent run-in with one was with the Dr. Wily spirit.
In case you don't know, it's a stamina match in which you have 120 hp while every opponent has 100. You have to fight eight Metal Megamans, two at a time, and then Dr Mario without losing 120 hp. Even with spirits this fight is ridiculous. It's not challenging, it's stupid. And there are plenty of other ones like that in the game. It is greatly discouraging.

Yeah agreed, it is incredibly boring.

 

[Idon]

When your singleplayer is WoL and your multiplayer is "preferred matchmaking" your motivation for playing kinda drains itself.

 

[lizard1929]

I have had one game crash so far after collecting a spirit in WoL. Nothing was lost but it was a little bit discouraging.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So far my favorite classic mode was Ryu's.

I loved the battle with Master Hand and Crazy Hand where Ken is helping you that was awesome.

 

[WaxPython]

So far my favorite classic mode was Ryu's.

I loved the battle with Master Hand and Crazy Hand where Ken is helping you that was awesome.

Have you played any of the Belmonts classic modes?

 

[Will]

Have you played any of the Belmonts classic modes?

Simon's is just "beat evil demon man", Richter's is Smash Echo themed. I mean they both end in Dracula, but it ain't groundbreaking.

Ryu is probably the king of Classic Mode routes IMO, it doesn't get that much complex.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Have you played any of the Belmonts classic modes?

I played Richter's it was alright. Dracula is kind of frustrating considering his only hit box is his head, but I just really liked the Street Fighter HP feel he had going on, then teaming up with Ken was a nice bonus.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Yeah agreed, it is incredibly boring.

It could've been cool if they just had better designed battles and something to break up the monotony of just fight after fight after fight.
At least SSE had levels. And they were fun. Although I will give credit where credit is due. Some of the concepts for who represents the spirits are pretty cool and some fights are rather inventive. But they are completely overshadowed by how FRUSTRATING some of the fights are.