Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[True Blue Warrior]

Chrom wasn't replaced, he was considered then rejected in favour of Robin.

 

[StormC]

There just isn't really a good candidate for a BOTW character. Why would he add one of the champions over any of the other ones? None of them stand out from each other or even are especially significant to the story once their quest is completed.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

For the record, only Smash 3DS had characters playable that debuted on the same system (Robin, Lucina, Corrin, Dark Pit & Greninja) but all had characters that debuted in the same generation (Pikachu and Jigglypuff in 64, Roy in Melee, Lucario in Brawl)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's exactly why they would take it down. Your argument that "Them removing it validates is" is kind of invalidated by the fact that they've removed actual leaked footage of Super Smash Bros 4.

So of course they would take it down if it was real. Nintendo doesn't care if you believe it or not. What they care about is that people are releasing their content without their permission and they are going to put a stop to it.

Only if they have to. And yes, they do care if it's real or not too. It's not simple anymore.

They aren't dumb. They're well aware of what happened last time. NDA is more important than anything else. Never mind the fact that it looks fake to most, so they can't take it down till they know of it. If they have to do so.

It hasn't been clear-cut anymore. Them taking it down could be for IP reasons instead. Them leaving it up could be for more than one reason. I don't buy whatever happens as a real sign of anything at this point.

 

[Morbi]

Chrom wasn't replaced, he was considered then rejected in favour of Robin.

In other words, he was replaced. Thank you for the insight.

There just isn't really a good candidate for a BOTW character. Why would he add one of the champions over any of the other ones? None of them stand out from each other or even are especially significant to the story once their quest is completed.

Mipha stands out a bit due to her relationship with Link. I still doubt it, as I previously stated; however, if Sakurai wanted to make it happen, he could make it happen. That is not saying much, because if he wanted, we could have some trippy, four-way, amalgam fighter too. That being said, I believe the bigger aspect of the discussion to consider is what Breath of the Wild did for Legend of Zelda as a whole, and that might justify someone such as Impa, who did appear in the game, even if it was as a grandmother.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Roy in Melee

Roy literally debuted in Melee before his own game.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

For the record, only Smash 3DS had characters playable that debuted on the same system (Robin, Lucina, Corrin, Dark Pit & Greninja) but all had characters that debuted in the same generation (Pikachu and Jigglypuff in 64, Roy in Melee, Lucario in Brawl)

Pikachu and Jigglypuff made their debut ~3 years before Smash 64, Roy was a last-minute clone and Lucario made his first appearance in Pokemon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew which was released in July 16, 2005, the same year the Brawl roster was finalised.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

This leak isn't Krabby The Clown. This leak is Cheapy The Cheapskate.

There just isn't really a good candidate for a BOTW character. Why would he add one of the champions over any of the other ones? None of them stand out from each other or even are especially significant to the story once their quest is completed.

It's Ghirahim and Midna all over again.

 

[JamesDNaux]

There just isn't really a good candidate for a BOTW character. Why would he add one of the champions over any of the other ones? None of them stand out from each other or even are especially significant to the story once their quest is completed.

Introducing the newest transformation characters, the Champions.

They each have a unique moveset, and you can swap them out with their down special, Champion Switch.

 

[Opossum]

There just isn't really a good candidate for a BOTW character. Why would he add one of the champions over any of the other ones? None of them stand out from each other or even are especially significant to the story once their quest is completed.

I legitimately do think we'll get a Champion (probably Mipha, but I'd love to see Daruk). It's high time the whole "no one-offs" thing got broken for Zelda, and at the very least you can make the argument that the Champions are emblematic of Hyrule's different races, so at least they're based on recurring elements.

 

[Fenriraga]

Why are we talking BOTW reps? We already have Revali in the game.

 

[StormC]

I legitimately do think we'll get a Champion (probably Mipha, but I'd love to see Daruk). It's high time the whole "no one-offs" thing got broken for Zelda, and at the very least you can make the argument that the Champions are emblematic of Hyrule's different races, so at least they're based on recurring elements.

Why do you think that though besides the fact that BOTW was very successful (which would have been almost a year after the roster was decided)? It seems like people are just (understandably) hungry for a Zelda newcomer and they think this is finally the series' shot, but I just don't see it. I loved the game but its characters aren't really practical for Smash, especially ones that are dead during the actual game. I think we're getting Impa or probably nobody.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

the same year the Brawl roster was finalised.

Where'd you find that out?

 

[Cosmic77]

There just isn't really a good candidate for a BOTW character. Why would he add one of the champions over any of the other ones? None of them stand out from each other or even are especially significant to the story once their quest is completed.

I could technically argue the same thing for a starter Pokémon. All three starters are equal to each other in terms of importance, yet no one really seems to have an issue supporting Decidueye, do they?

I still don't understand the "we can't add one Champion because they're all equally important" argument. It should be as simple as just picking one that's popular.

I legitimately do think we'll get a Champion (probably Mipha, but I'd love to see Daruk). It's high time the whole "no one-offs" thing got broken for Zelda, and at the very least you can make the argument that the Champions are emblematic of Hyrule's different races, so at least they're based on recurring elements.

This.

Even at their peak, every other popular Zelda character has failed us. If we can't get a newcomer after something as massive as BotW, I give up.

 

[MrReyes96]

The best choice for a Zelda newcomer is Impa imo, Considering how prominent the sheikah are in the game. It could be a young Impa based on the breath of the wild style, similar to Paya but in a more stealthy outfit that references her skyward sword appearance and others.

I think the champions are better represented as part of Link or Zelda’s moveset, but maybe someone like Prince Sidon or Riju would be cool.

 

[Morbi]

Why are we talking BOTW reps? We already have Revali in the game.

That ain't Falco!

Why do you think that though besides the fact that BOTW was very successful (which would have been almost a year after the roster was decided)? It seems like people are just (understandably) hungry for a Zelda newcomer and they think this is finally the series' shot, but I just don't see it. I loved the game but its characters aren't really practical for Smash, especially ones that are dead during the actual game. I think we're getting Impa or probably nobody.

To be completely fair, it is not as though dying magically prevents you from joining the roster. As long as the character functions, they can exist in a non-canon form for Smash Brothers. Otherwise, Ganondorf himself would not be very practical. He dies... A lot.

 

[Opossum]

Why do you think that though besides the fact that BOTW was very successful (which would have been almost a year after the roster was decided)? It seems like people are just (understandably) hungry for a Zelda newcomer and they think this is finally the series' shot, but I just don't see it. I loved the game but its characters aren't really practical for Smash, especially ones that are dead during the actual game. I think we're getting Impa or probably nobody.

I can easily see Sakurai wanting a newcomer. Back in Brawl he deliberately added Zero Suit Samus because he wanoted another Metroid character, and she added another female fighter, at that. Zelda has had the same cast since Brawl (Melee depending on how you look at the Young vs Toon Link situation), and considering how MASSIVE Breath of the Wild was, this is the prime time for a new character.

Being dead doesn't really matter honestly. Ganondorf has died several times, and Marth is canonically dead during Awakening. Pretty much all four offer unique playstyles that are perfect for Smash.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I legitimately do think we'll get a Champion (probably Mipha, but I'd love to see Daruk). It's high time the whole "no one-offs" thing got broken for Zelda, and at the very least you can make the argument that the Champions are emblematic of Hyrule's different races, so at least they're based on recurring elements.

You'd still have people shouting "why did Zora's get represented over Gorons and Rito?!"

There's no way to win the situation without adding all four of them.

...

And a series getting four completely new characters isn't entirely out of the question.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Where'd you find that out?

Here.

 

[StormC]

I'd could technically argue the same thing for a starter Pokémon. All three starters are equal to each other in terms of importance, yet no one really seems to have an issue supporting Decidueye, do they?

Starters are way more important to Pokemon than the champions ever were to BOTW. Starters are the closest thing to a "main character" Pokemon for each game. Not only that, but every Pokemon that gets added to its franchise is one that will be in it forever, recurring constantly. Not really comparable to one-off quest characters that take ~5 hours to get to.

I still don't understand the "we can't add one Champion because they're all equally important" argument. It should be as simple as just picking one that's popular.

If the roster was decided by mid-2016 (being generous here), how would Sakurai add a character that didn't even have a chance to be popular until much later? We're not talking Sonic-level popularity here.

 

[Blargg888]

The best choice for a Zelda newcomer is Impa imo, Considering how prominent the sheikah are in the game. It could be a young Impa based on the breath of the wild style, similar to Paya but in a more stealthy outfit that references her skyward sword appearance and others.

Isn't Impa in BotW like, really really old?

I feel like it would be better to use her 'in the past' Skyward Sword design if she were to get in.

 

[StormC]

Being dead doesn't really matter honestly. Ganondorf has died several times, and Marth is canonically dead during Awakening. Pretty much all four offer unique playstyles that are perfect for Smash.

Being dead matters when in the context of the main game, you barely get to interact with them, which is more my point.

 

[Opossum]

There's no way to win the situation without adding all four of them.

When Pokémon Trainer was cut, he didn't take Charizard down with him. At the end of the day Sakurai picked one of the three Pokémon. The same would happen with a Champion.

 

[Staarih]

And a series getting four completely new characters isn't entirely out of the question.

All four Champions as playable would be really unexpected.

But I love it.

 

[MrReyes96]

Isn't Impa in BotW like, really really old?

I feel like it would be better to use her 'in the past' Skyward Sword design if she were to get in.

That’s why they could just make a younger version based on breath of the wild.

Or I would also be okay with a yoda style old lady badass.

But ideally just give her a young appearance like that of her granddaughter with a mix of other appearences.

 

[Morbi]

Being dead matters when in the context of the main game, you barely get to interact with them, which is more my point.

You barely interact with any character in any Legend of Zelda game outside of your companion, I suppose. So it is not really a point exclusively against them. That is just how the series works.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

When Pokémon Trainer was cut, he didn't take Charizard down with him. At the end of the day Sakurai picked one of the three Pokémon. The same would happen with a Champion.

Charizard is severely iconic and prominent in the anime(though not as much anymore, but the most prominent of the regular Gen 1 Starters even then. Only Pikachu edges him out, who technically is a starter now).

It's not the same thing.

I'm not saying a Champion can't get in, but they really aren't like the Gen 1 Starters in importance, popularity, or iconicness. They're lower than that. They're still awesome, don't get me wrong.

 

[Opossum]

Being dead matters when in the context of the main game, you barely get to interact with them, which is more my point.

So you're saying it's a matter of exposure?

If so, I doubt it's an issue. The Champions had their own amiibo made long after Breath of the Wild released. They wouldn't do that if they thought they were unpopular. And then they made an entire DLC scenario based around them, even making a big show of it at The Game Awards.

Nintendo pushes the Champions a lot, much more than they've pushed basically any other secondary Zelda characters.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

There just isn't really a good candidate for a BOTW character. Why would he add one of the champions over any of the other ones? None of them stand out from each other or even are especially significant to the story once their quest is completed.

I think mipha stands out due to her water abilities and her spear, she could very well make a unique fighter. And story wise due to her relationship with link, I could see it tbh.

 

[Opossum]

Charizard is severely iconic and prominent in the anime(though not as much anymore, but the most prominent of the regular Gen 1 Starters even then. Only Pikachu edges him out, who technically is a starter now).

It's not the same thing.

I'm not saying a Champion can't get in, but they really aren't like the Gen 1 Starters in importance, popularity, or iconicness. They're lower than that. They're still awesome, don't get me wrong.

That's not my point.

My point was that all three of the Kanto starters were iconic, but Charizard was the most popular. But importance-wise, they were on the same level. The Champions are all equally important, but one can still be chosen from them.

 

[Hinata]

Tangentially related to the conversation at hand, but I just wanted to share some trivia I learned about Smash 4, so people can really conceptualize how big Smash 4 was, how it deviated from the formula, and what Smash 5 has to live up to.

Smash 4:

• Is tied with the original Smash Bros for the most new universes with playable characters introduced in a single game, with 10 new universes being introduced
• Is the only Smash game so far to completely cut all playable characters within a universe, having removed all playable characters from the Metal Gear and Ice Climbers universe
• Introduces the second highest number of newcomers in a single universe, having introduced 3 Fire Emblem newcomers, beaten out only by Melee's 4 Zelda newcomers
• Is the only Smash game so far to not introduce any newcomers to the Zelda or Star Fox universe

 

[MrReyes96]

I think if we’re going to get champions we should get other one off Zelda characters in first. Darunia, Medli/Makar, Midna, Fi, Ghirahim, etc
Would be weird to have reoccurring characters and then one champion. That’s why I support Impa more than a champion because she will be in future installments as well.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Charizard is severely iconic and prominent in the anime(though not as much anymore, but the most prominent of the regular Gen 1 Starters even then. Only Pikachu edges him out, who technically is a starter now).

It's not the same thing.

I'm not saying a Champion can't get in, but they really aren't like the Gen 1 Starters in importance, popularity, or iconicness. They're lower than that. They're still awesome, don't get me wrong.

He picked greninja over the other starters, there's no rule that says all of the characters belonging to a group have to get in or none of them can

 

[MrReyes96]

I think mipha stands out due to her water abilities and her spear, she could very well make a unique fighter. And story wise due to her relationship with link, I could see it tbh.

I think she would be cool and because her ability is harder to just add to a moveset it would make sense to make her playable, only bad part is her brother is more popular from what I can tell

 

[Bowserlick]

Breath of the Wild is a great opportunity for the Smash team to rework Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf to various degrees utilizing the flavor of the new direction and title of the series.

Link has Classic Link or Toon Link to preserve his current moveset. This would allow Sakurai to go nuts and incorporate multiple mechanics from BotW in century-old Link.

 

[MrReyes96]

Breath of the Wild is a great opportunity for the Smash team to rework Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf to various degrees utilizing the flavor of the new direction and title of the series.

Link has Classic Link or Toon Link to preserve his current moveset. This would allow Sakurai to go nuts and incorporate multiple mechanics from BotW in century-old Link.

Big agree, if Sakurai barely changes them I will be very disappointed

 

[Morbi]

Tangentially related to the conversation at hand, but I just wanted to share some trivia I learned about Smash 4, so people can really conceptualize how big Smash 4 was, how it deviated from the formula, and what Smash 5 has to live up to.

Smash 4:

• Is tied with the original Smash Bros for the most new universes with playable characters introduced in a single game, with 10 new universes being introduced
• Is the only Smash game so far to completely cut all playable characters within a universe, having removed all playable characters from the Metal Gear and Ice Climbers universe
• Introduces the second highest number of newcomers in a single universe, having introduced 3 Fire Emblem newcomers, beaten out only by Melee's 4 Zelda newcomers
• Is the only Smash game so far to not introduce any newcomers to the Zelda or Star Fox universe

I was about to ask who Brawl added from Legend of Zelda. Cheeky.

He picked greninja over the other starters, there's no rule that says all of the characters belonging to a group have to get in or none of them can

Not only that; however, he also picked Pichu and Lucario over a Gen 2 or Gen 4 starter despite starters supposedly being the closest thing to a main character. They really are not and the Champions definitely are. So the comparison falls completely flat, in my opinion.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I think she would be cool and because her ability is harder to just add to a moveset it would make sense to make her playable, only bad part is her brother is more popular from what I can tell

Give Zelda the other champion abilities and make mipha playable, boom, done, send me my money nintendo.

Her brother is only popular cause people wanna **** him...same tho...

 

[MrReyes96]

Give Zelda the other champion abilities and make mipha playable, boom, done, send me my money nintendo.

Her brother is only popular cause people wanna **** him...same tho...

Yeah that’s what I want as well, I think Urbosa or Mipha would be good picks to make playable as well.

Basically we all agree Zelda needs another rep.

 

[StormC]

Not only that; however, he also picked Pichu and Lucario over a Gen 2 or Gen 4 starter despite starters supposedly being the closest thing to a main character. They really are not and the Champions definitely are. So the comparison falls completely flat, in my opinion.

Pichu was a last minute clone and Lucario was the generation 4 mascot, while also getting a movie at the time Sakurai was deciding the roster. When shooting in the dark like he did with Greninja, picking a starter makes sense. Pokemon's character selection is totally different from Zelda overall, especially with one-offs.