Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

It kinda amuses me that Sakurai literally added Snake as a third party first and looked at his plan like ''Yes, this is good." and then someone had to be like ''Uhhh you know people are just going to ask for Sonic right?" to him.

It might be the strangest and most illogical thing this man has done. Imagine a world where Sonic didn't come until Smash Wii U/3DS.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Going along with this, putting in a character from an older game concept, was there ever a character from a more recent game (released at least a year before smash) that was dropped in favor of an older character from that series?

I dont think there is but that has more to do with Nintendo series generally having rotating, reoccurring characters. The only example I could think of is Galaxy but again the main characters were still Mario, Peach and Bowser (Rosalina was added in Wii U because she continued to be reoccurring in the series).

Rosalina was added in wii u cause sakurai wanted her, the project plan was made in 2012, long before rosalina was in anything besides galaxy and mario kart wii

 

[True Blue Warrior]

To be completely fair, that is entirely irrelevant. It has less to do with the individual characters, and more to do with the game they are from. Xenoblade 2 had way more hype and X was largely forgettable. It even comes to the point where I, a Wii U owner that was somewhat interested in X, did not know Elma. Or maybe I did and I just forgot? Who knows, but I was largely not aware of her existence or what she did. I, as someone who bought a Switch solely for Odyssey and future games, such as Smash, and skipped the Xenoblade 2 Direct, knows about Rex.

And not just for speculation. I was aware of him before this game was even announced. I hated him then, for his assless chap, parachute pants and generic anime sensibilities. It is not about Rex's appeal, it is about promoting the Xenoblade franchise in the most competent way, which would not be moving backward toward a largely mediocre game and instead looking forward to a game that had a lot of buzz because it was on the Switch. This is a Smash game made for the SWITCH audience. People keep overlooking this because they are clinging to circumstances surrounding the old game. Those "rules" are just references. Nothing more. This game is completely different and the more apt comparison would be Smash 64 transitioning to Melee. But I was not speculating back then, so I am just relying on common sense here. Rex is a very reasonable choice (even if I hate him). Elma is an outlandish choice (even if I like her).

Beyond that, if they use Pyra, all bets are off. Rex AND Pyra are probably bigger than Shulk, to be honest.

Well it only remains to see how much emphasis there will be on Switch releases in terms of the newcomer roster. That being said, it's important to note that I never said a Xenoblade 2 and an ARMS have no plausible chance, just that I don't think either are close to being the shoo-ins some people think they are. I could see them given the Greninja treatment, though I am not sure if they will.

(It's also interesting you made the 64 to Melee comparison, as I have made a post about it)

 

[Morbi]

But that's clearly not how sakurai operates if this has been true for every game in the series thus far, this game is going to focus on the last generation. Yall are really acting like there's no choices from the last era even though the only actually choices that come from the switch era are springman and rex, those are literally it.

It is not clear to me. And like it or not, the only opinion that matters to me, is mine.

Nah, do not put words in my mouth, homie. I am not acting that way. I am just saying that Rex is much more logical than Elma and that Spring Man is more or less given. Obviously the rest will have to come from elsewhere. It was more of a response to the people who genuinely believe that Smash Switch is going to ignore the Switch.

And regardless, if I am somehow wrong, I am never truly wrong. These will be among the first DLC characters in that event. I just doubt it though, because like or not, despite the fact that they must look to past eras, there is not much left. I am not in the mood to play mental gymnastics about the roster. However, if one thing is obvious, he is going to need to do something relatively unprecedented to make this game work with such limited options.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

It is not clear to me. And like it or not, the only opinion that matters to me, is mine.

Nah, do not put words in my mouth, homie. I am not acting that way. I am just saying that Rex is much more logical than Elma and that Spring Man is more or less given. Obviously the rest will have to come from elsewhere. It was more of a response to the people who genuinely believe that Smash Switch is going to ignore the Switch.

And regardless, if I am somehow wrong, I am never truly wrong. These will be among the first DLC characters in that event. I just doubt it though, because like or not, despite the fact that they must look to past eras, there is not much left. I am not in the mood to play mental gymnastics about the roster. However, if one thing is obvious, he is going to need to do something relatively unprecedented to make this game work with such limited options.

There aren't limited options, there's plenty of games that came out between 2014 and 2016 to make a good selection of newcomers and that's not counting choices made from the ballot.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Said project plan was finalized by May, two months after development started.

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/04/chromsmash4/

There is potential evidence to suggest robin was actually decided in August.

From the link:
"Interviewer: Didn’t you deliver this keynote during a really busy time?

Sakurai: When was it again?

Interviewer: Um…around August 20th, 2012.

Sakurai: Oh, that was a really busy time! (laughs). In terms of “Smash for 3DS/ Wii U” development, that was right when I was explaining character specifics and movesets to the staff. And Robin had just been decided…[2]"

 

[Morbi]

There aren't limited options, there's plenty of games that came out between 2014 and 2016 to make a good selection of newcomers and that's not counting choices made from the ballot.

As a general rule of thumb: Game comes out =/= Viable newcomer. Again, the heaviest hitter that was not blatantly ignored (Ridley/King K. Rool) last time is Waluigi. People used to joke about him and yet, here we are, the star power of Waluigi shines the brightest! Such options, wow.

Do not get me wrong, there are plenty of fish in the sea, so to speak; however, even with how lackluster the roster was last time, this time is going to be egregiously pathetic.

 

[BluePikmin11]

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/04/chromsmash4/

There is potential evidence to suggest robin was actually decided in August.

From the link:
"Interviewer: Didn’t you deliver this keynote during a really busy time?

Sakurai: When was it again?

Interviewer: Um…around August 20th, 2012.

Sakurai: Oh, that was a really busy time! (laughs). In terms of “Smash for 3DS/ Wii U” development, that was right when I was explaining character specifics and movesets to the staff. And Robin had just been decided…[2]"

I wonder if the implementation of Chorus Kids and Ice Climbers were tested heavily around this time.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

As a general rule of thumb: Game comes out =/= Viable newcomer. Again, the heaviest hitter that was not blatantly ignored (Ridley/King K. Rool) last time is Waluigi. People used to joke about him and yet, here we are, the star power of Waluigi shines the brightest! Such options, wow.

Do not get me wrong, there are plenty of fish in the sea, so to speak; however, even with how lackluster the roster was last time, this time is going to be egregiously pathetic.

I mean, there's dixie kong cause tropical freeze, paper mario cause colour splash, elma cause of Xenoblade, Wolf cause of Zero, a pokemon from sun and moon, Bandana Dee cause of all the kirby games that came out in that time, and breath of the wild and obviously inklings. And then they can include others that were popular on the ballot. Springman and Rex are only 2 characters, that's it. And honestly I don't think either of them would be all that interesting as fighters tbh.

 

[Burruni]

Edit: wrong thread so entirely different post instead

Who do you think is more likely for a 3rd party newcomer: Crash or Rayman? With both getting recent resurgences with a strong nintendo tie in, they feel comparable

 

[Morbi]

I mean, there's dixie kong cause tropical freeze, paper mario cause colour splash, elma cause of Xenoblade, Wolf cause of Zero, a pokemon from sun and moon, Bandana Dee cause of all the kirby games that came out in that time, and breath of the wild and obviously inklings. And then they can include others that were popular on the ballot. Springman and Rex are only 2 characters, that's it. And honestly I don't think either of them would be all that interesting as fighters tbh.

I was not really counting Wolf as he is a veteran. I would expect him back, especially after the ballot, without Zero. Ugh... Bandana Dee. Sakurai bias, pls save us! I am not expecting a Breath of the Wild character, we have never had a Zelda one-off. Expecting one now would be like expecting Goku. Oh wait...

The others are fine. I sort of expected at least ten characters on the roster though. Albeit, I am still open for a Gen 8 or the Fire Emblem Switch protagonist myself. They are FAR less likely, but still viable nevertheless.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I was not really counting Wolf as he is a veteran. I would expect him back, especially after the ballot, without Zero. Ugh... Bandana Dee. Sakurai bias, pls save us! I am not expecting a Breath of the Wild character, we have never had a Zelda one-off. Expecting one now would be like expecting Goku. Oh wait...

The others are fine. I sort of expected at least ten characters on the roster though. Albeit, I am still open for a Gen 8 or the Fire Emblem Switch protagonist myself. They are FAR less likely, but still viable nevertheless.

I mean 10 characters could be:
-Dixie
-Elma
-Isabelle (forgot her lol)
-Paper Mario
-Inklings
-Bandana Dee
-Some Pokemon
-Someone from Zelda maybe

Bringing back wolf and Ice Climbers makes 10 characters added. Then there's ballot choices and retro characters. There's enough potential to make a good roster using pre-2017 characters.

 

[StormC]

The problem with most character suggestions is they're mid-tier characters at best in terms of hype/anticipation. Sakurai is gonna need at least a couple of characters that will get everyone talking about the game and generate tons of headlines for it. There's really only a couple of Nintendo characters that could pull that off and I think you know which ones I'm talking about. There's some third party options but none of them would be on the level of characters like Mega Man or Cloud.

I don't see this roster being just a routine upgrade. There will be some big and unexpected stuff.

 

[Garteam]

Edit: wrong thread so entirely different post instead

Who do you think is more likely for a 3rd party newcomer: Crash or Rayman? With both getting recent resurgences with a strong nintendo tie in, they feel comparable

I'd say Rayman, the Crash remake had just been announced in summer 2016 (same time as the final project plan) and at that point it was assumed to be a PS4 exclusive, there was no way to know it would come to the Switch or even if it would be a hit financially. That alone makes Rayman much more viable for a spot on the launch roster.

That being said, Crash seems to have a little more visible hype behind him than Rayman and is generally more well known, so I think Crash has a leg up in terms of DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

I wonder if the implementation of Chorus Kids and Ice Climbers were tested heavily around this time.

I’d say probably so.

 

[Cosmic77]

Honestly, if there was any Smash game that we shouldn't be sticking to old patterns with, it's this one.

I must continue to stress the fact that this game has almost everything Sakurai needs pre-made in Smash Wii U. There's literally no reason why any of us should write a character off just because we're going by the unproven assumption that the roster was decided in it's entirety by 2016 and that Switch games were too late to even be considered. Sakurai is focusing on one game this time, he doesn't have to recreate all the characters, and he has plenty of time to consider his options.

Smash 4 broke a lot of old patterns, and I expect this game to be no different.

I mean, there's dixie kong cause tropical freeze, paper mario cause colour splash, elma cause of Xenoblade, Wolf cause of Zero, a pokemon from sun and moon, Bandana Dee cause of all the kirby games that came out in that time, and breath of the wild and obviously inklings. And then they can include others that were popular on the ballot. Springman and Rex are only 2 characters, that's it. And honestly I don't think either of them would be all that interesting as fighters tbh.

The only problem here is that there isn't much diversity. Without the Switch, Sakurai would have to add a character from just about every notable Wii U/3DS game in that timespan if he wanted to have enough newcomers to warrant a brand new Smash game. Even then, it wouldn't have a very impressive roster.

I am not expecting a Breath of the Wild character, we have never had a Zelda one-off. Expecting one now would be like expecting Goku. Oh wait...

I'll refer you to the top of my post.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

The problem with most character suggestions is they're mid-tier characters at best in terms of hype/anticipation. Sakurai is gonna need at least a couple of characters that will get everyone talking about the game and generate tons of headlines for it. There's really only a couple of Nintendo characters that could pull that off and I think you know which ones I'm talking about. There's some third party options but none of them would be on the level of characters like Mega Man or Cloud.

I don't see this roster being just a routine upgrade. There will be some big and unexpected stuff.

Because there's no one left, they could have k rool cause of the ballot, the only other massive characters I can think of is ridley (haha, massive) and that's not happening cause sakurai hates us. There are some bigger third party options but most are whatever

The only problem here is that there isn't much diversity. Without the Switch, Sakurai would have to add a character from just about every notable Wii U/3DS game in that timespan if he wanted to have enough newcomers to warrant a brand new Smash game. Even then, it wouldn't have a very impressive roster.

The switch has rex and springman, that's literally it.

 

[Staarih]

Springman and Rex are only 2 characters, that's it.

Well yeah, but it kinda works the other way round as well; it wouldn’t hurt adding one or both as it’s ”only two characters”. Anyway, I feel it would also be a smart move to add Switch-era characters in the base roster, anyone not familiar with Spring Man (for example) would see him in Smash, get interested and actually go, get and play ARMS on the same system. Perks of cross-promotion. If a character (or even just a concept) for/from 2017 shows more potential to Sakurai than an older one, I say go for it.

But of course we have no idea how development actually goes down this time so it might not happen... but I still think it’s possible. I’m not sure about drawing any patterns on past development cycles either - in a year or two or whenever, when Sakurai gives interviews about the development of Smash Switch, he could say something completely opposite of what he’s said/done in the past.

 

[Morbi]

I mean 10 characters could be:
-Dixie
-Elma
-Isabelle (forgot her lol)
-Paper Mario
-Inklings
-Bandana Dee
-Some Pokemon
-Someone from Zelda maybe

Bringing back wolf and Ice Climbers makes 10 characters added. Then there's ballot choices and retro characters. There's enough potential to make a good roster using pre-2017 characters.

The one concern, I have, regarding that, is that Ice Climbers and Wolf might be DLC (lmfao) because all of the returning veterans were last time, to my knowledge (outside of Dr. Mario). Beyond that, I was mostly referring to newcomers. There might be even more than ten. The least amount of newcomers we ever received was 12, in the original 64 game, and the number has only been climbing (albeit, I doubt we are going to get as many this time, clearly).

The Zelda character would almost have to be Ganon (or Toon Ganondorf), or a revisited Toon Zelda. I doubt they would add a third Link, but we should find out relatively shortly. None of that seems entirely likely. They usually represent Zelda with stages or assist trophies. Items. Anything but a character, really.

Beyond that, Elma is a stretch. Even if she were likely, if Sakurai confirmed her right now, it would not change that she is a nobody.

And that is, again, why I have no faith in the roster. I am more excited to see what they do with the veterans. If you are excited for that as a newcomer roster. Cool. I am glad, I enjoy all of those characters (and give blanket enthusiasm to any LoZ or Pokemon), in fact, but... I would just be more excited to see how they try to hype it up.

Ooh, look, it is that dog from animal crossing and that generic enemy from Kirby, oh, is that... the female Diddy? Hurry YouTubers, pour water on your heads and tweak your nipples! HYPE LEVELS OVER 9000!!11!1111!!

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

The one concern, I have, regarding that, is that Ice Climbers and Wolf might be DLC (lmfao) because all of the returning veterans were last time, to my knowledge (outside of Dr. Mario). Beyond that, I was mostly referring to newcomers. There might be even more than ten. The least amount of newcomers we ever received was 12, in the original 64 game, and the number has only been climbing (albeit, I doubt we are going to get as many this time, clearly).

The Zelda character would almost have to be Ganon (or Toon Ganondorf), or a revisited Toon Zelda. I doubt they would add a third Link, but we should find out relatively shortly. None of that seems entirely likely. They usually represent Zelda with stages or assist trophies. Items. Anything but a character, really.

Beyond that, Elma is a stretch. Even if she were likely, if Sakurai confirmed her right now, it would not change that she is a nobody.

And that is, again, why I have no faith in the roster. I am more excited to see what they do with the veterans. If you are excited for that as a newcomer roster. Cool. I am glad, I enjoy all of those characters (and give blanket enthusiasm to any LoZ or Pokemon), in fact, but... I would just be more excited to see how they try to hype it up.

Ooh, look, it is that dog from animal crossing and that generic enemy from Kirby, oh, is that... the female Diddy? Hurry YouTubers, pour water on your heads and tweak your nipples! HYPE LEVELS OVER 9000!!11!1111!!

I mean Elma is a nobody in the same way Robin was a nobody, she'd have a cool moveset like robin at least. Also don't do Dixie like that, sis is one of the last few "nintendo all stars"

Also isabelle is massively popular and recognizable, you aint gotta do her like that either

 

[Senselessbreak]

So after watching Omni's video about the leak, I looked into the point about the leaked images being direct screen grabs. His claim is that they were not grabbed using the Switch's snapshot button on the joycon controllers because those images get more compressed than we see in the leak. So then I got thinking, what if I compare the image to the quality taken using the in game snapshot feature in Smash Wii U, and its an EXACT match down to the pixel size. Both are 1280 by 720 pixels and compressed in the same way.

MANY modders including Omni himself feels very confident that this leak was not made using mods, but instead made using 3D rendering software. That could be the case, but would the rendering software also produce images at the EXACT SAME size and quality of those produced using the Smash Bros feature?! If Smash 5 is created off of Smash 4's engine, I think that is a huge sign that this may be legit.

One unanswered question is why the snapshot button is missing from the GUI in this version though.

EDIT: From what it appears, Omni is wrong about the photo compression. The compression is exactly the same between the Switch's internal capture, Smash Wii U's native capture, and the leaked image.

 

[Garteam]

The problem with Zelda one-offs is they're awkward once their relevance passes. How do you justify having say, Skull Kid, over someone like Ghirahim or Midna? Most one-off Zelda characters have the distinction of being dark horses with similar popularity and relevance. It's a little different for Pokemon and Fire Emblem because the cast that makes up each game is constantly changing, but Zelda has a fairly small yet consistent set of characters: Link, Zelda, and Ganon are always there and occasionally Impa or Tingle shows up in a supporting role. This generally makes them better assist trophies, as you can have all the one-offs rather than needing to decide who is most deserving of a roster spot.

The exception to this Shiek, but she had the fortune of being part of Zelda and gaining considerable popularity for her playstyle in Melee and Brawl

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So after watching Omni's video about the leak, I looked into the point about the leaked images being direct screen grabs. His claim is that they were not grabbed using the Switch's snapshot button on the joycon controllers because those images get more compressed than we see in the leak. So then I got thinking, what if I compare the image to the quality taken using the in game snapshot feature in Smash Wii U, and its an EXACT match down to the pixel size. Both are 1280 by 720 pixels and compressed in the same way.

MANY modders including Omni himself feels very confident that this leak was not made using mods, but instead made using 3D rendering software. That could be the case, but would the rendering software also produce images at the EXACT SAME size and quality of those produced using the Smash Bros feature?! If Smash 5 is created off of Smash 4's engine, I think that is a huge sign that this may be legit.

One unanswered question is why the snapshot button is missing from the GUI in this version though.

Those videos are still up though aren't they? I think it's a pretty big signifier that this is fake lol

 

[RodNutTakin]

Edit: wrong thread so entirely different post instead

Who do you think is more likely for a 3rd party newcomer: Crash or Rayman? With both getting recent resurgences with a strong nintendo tie in, they feel comparable

I JUST FLEW IN FROM THE NEW RUINS LEVEL AND BOY ARE MY ARMS TIRED

 

[Morbi]

I mean Elma is a nobody in the same way Robin was a nobody, she'd have a cool moveset like robin at least. Also don't do Dixie like that, sis is one of the last few "nintendo all stars"

Not really.

Honestly, if there was any Smash game that we shouldn't be sticking to old patterns with, it's this one.

I must continue to stress the fact that this game has almost everything Sakurai needs pre-made in Smash Wii U. There's literally no reason why any of us should write a character off just because we're going by the unproven assumption that the roster was decided in it's entirety by 2016 and that Switch games were too late to even be considered. Sakurai is focusing on one game this time, he doesn't have to recreate all the characters, and he has plenty of time to consider his options.

Smash 4 broke a lot of old patterns, and I expect this game to be no different.



The only problem here is that there isn't much diversity. Without the Switch, Sakurai would have to add a character from just about every notable Wii U/3DS game in that timespan if he wanted to have enough newcomers to warrant a brand new Smash game. Even then, it wouldn't have a very impressive roster.



I'll refer you to the top of my post.

I definitely agree with your sentiment; however, it is a bit difficult to imagine that now is when we get a one-off Zelda character merely because we are coming off Breath of the Wild. Not many viable characters outside of the champions. I would love to be surprised and as you stated, if it were to happen anytime, there is no time like the present. Other than that, perhaps an assist trophy upgrade.

To be completely honest with you, I am pretty salty because last time I expected a Zelda character and it did not happen. So now, I am just sulking and hoping that it happens while I have low expectations.

 

[Deleted member]

You'd say that Sonic is probably the only known case of Sakurai adding someone after his plan was set in stone, correct?

Have we got any info that says someone was similar to Sonic in that way?

Technically, Sonic was always part of the original plan.

It's just that Sega had other plans in mind.

A quote from The History of Sonic the Hedgehog, page 210:

“Early on, Nintendo asked SEGA if Sonic could be included in the game, but the Haneda company refused. It was only later, when the development of Super Smash Bros. Brawl was nearly finished,
that SEGA changed its mind. This is why the game’s release was delayed.”

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I wonder if the implementation of Chorus Kids and Ice Climbers were tested heavily around this time.

You do realize the Chorus Kids were never intended to be playable characters right? I mean as far as we know. We know there was a Rhythm Heaven character was planned, but the Gematsu Leak that said it was the Chorus Kids had no source or citation. So there's nothing suggesting Chorus Kids were intended to be playable.

So after watching Omni's video about the leak, I looked into the point about the leaked images being direct screen grabs. His claim is that they were not grabbed using the Switch's snapshot button on the joycon controllers because those images get more compressed than we see in the leak. So then I got thinking, what if I compare the image to the quality taken using the in game snapshot feature in Smash Wii U, and its an EXACT match down to the pixel size. Both are 1280 by 720 pixels and compressed in the same way.

MANY modders including Omni himself feels very confident that this leak was not made using mods, but instead made using 3D rendering software. That could be the case, but would the rendering software also produce images at the EXACT SAME size and quality of those produced using the Smash Bros feature?! If Smash 5 is created off of Smash 4's engine, I think that is a huge sign that this may be legit.

One unanswered question is why the snapshot button is missing from the GUI in this version though.

Probably because the Switch itself takes snapshots so there's no need. It's still fake though.

 

[NintendoKnight]

So after watching Omni's video about the leak, I looked into the point about the leaked images being direct screen grabs. His claim is that they were not grabbed using the Switch's snapshot button on the joycon controllers because those images get more compressed than we see in the leak. So then I got thinking, what if I compare the image to the quality taken using the in game snapshot feature in Smash Wii U, and its an EXACT match down to the pixel size. Both are 1280 by 720 pixels and compressed in the same way.

MANY modders including Omni himself feels very confident that this leak was not made using mods, but instead made using 3D rendering software. That could be the case, but would the rendering software also produce images at the EXACT SAME size and quality of those produced using the Smash Bros feature?! If Smash 5 is created off of Smash 4's engine, I think that is a huge sign that this may be legit.

One unanswered question is why the snapshot button is missing from the GUI in this version though.

An easily answered question. The Switch has a snapshot button and a built-in album for such screen captures. No need for an in-game function when the console does that by itself.

Besides, the Gamecube controllers lack this particular button, anyway. Edit: 'd

 

[Morbi]

So after watching Omni's video about the leak, I looked into the point about the leaked images being direct screen grabs. His claim is that they were not grabbed using the Switch's snapshot button on the joycon controllers because those images get more compressed than we see in the leak. So then I got thinking, what if I compare the image to the quality taken using the in game snapshot feature in Smash Wii U, and its an EXACT match down to the pixel size. Both are 1280 by 720 pixels and compressed in the same way.

MANY modders including Omni himself feels very confident that this leak was not made using mods, but instead made using 3D rendering software. That could be the case, but would the rendering software also produce images at the EXACT SAME size and quality of those produced using the Smash Bros feature?! If Smash 5 is created off of Smash 4's engine, I think that is a huge sign that this may be legit.

One unanswered question is why the snapshot button is missing from the GUI in this version though.

Last time, I thought that official images were fake because they looked "too" good, I am not about to start questioning whether or not something so terrible looks real. The worst part is, I would probably buy into it if the Spring Man animation were not so utterly abhorrent. Oh, and telltale signs of a faker.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The problem with most character suggestions is they're mid-tier characters at best in terms of hype/anticipation. Sakurai is gonna need at least a couple of characters that will get everyone talking about the game and generate tons of headlines for it. There's really only a couple of Nintendo characters that could pull that off and I think you know which ones I'm talking about. There's some third party options but none of them would be on the level of characters like Mega Man or Cloud.

I don't see this roster being just a routine upgrade. There will be some big and unexpected stuff.

While I'd love to see Sakurai dig for more obscure characters to make playable in Super Smash Bros, there's still plenty of high tier characters that would generate much hype and anticipation. Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Isabelle, Dixie Kong, Inkling, Excitebike, Rex & Pyra, Rhythm Heaven, Pokemon Sun/Moon.

There was a rumor that this installment would have a larger focus on Third Party content though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Those videos are still up though aren't they? I think it's a pretty big signifier that this is fake lol

Not exactly. Nintendo removing them also means they give an indicator it's real. Leaving 'em up may be all they can do. It's also possible nobody reported it because it looks fake to them. Unless it's the employees who see it, it won't matter.

It doesn't really mean anything at this time. Maybe if it's still up far later, but even then, why would they take the chance of validating the leak? They're screwed either way. What would matter is if they had no choice but to take it down, but keep in mind stuff like mods can be taken down for IP reasons anyway(not saying it's a mod), which makes the whole "taking it down guarantees it's a leak" to be somewhat dubious.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

The switch has rex and springman, that's literally it.

And? That wouldn't mean that it would only have switch newcomers. Of course they would use other characters from the wii u era/from the ballot/3rd parties.

You do realize the Chorus Kids were never intended to be playable characters right? I mean as far as we know. We know there was a Rhythm Heaven character was planned, but the Gematsu Leak that said it was the Chorus Kids had no source or citation. So there's nothing suggesting Chorus Kids were intended to be playable.

Gematsu guessed a lot of characters right. Some that are incredibly hard to predict. And even the ones they got wrong have something to back up the idea that they were planned. Like chrom, and at least the idea of a rhythm heaven character.
You're absolutely right, there is nothing that 100% proves the gematsu was actually right. It's all speculation. But there is enough evidence I find to justify believing in it. And you don't have to if you don't want to. Thats fine. Like I said nothing confirms it.

And in believing in it, that means the people that do believe the chrous kids were planned.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Does the hatebase really matter that much?

I also don't think comparing them to Inklings is even a fair comparison. Otherwise, why did Shulk even get into smash in the first place?

Because he was really feeling it.

 

[Morbi]

While I'd love to see Sakurai dig for more obscure characters to make playable in Super Smash Bros, there's still plenty of high tier characters that would generate much hype and anticipation. Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Isabelle, Dixie Kong, Inkling, Excitebike, Rex & Pyra, Rhythm Heaven, Pokemon Sun/Moon.

There was a rumor that this installment would have a larger focus on Third Party content though.

Ha ha ha... Excitebike? High profile? See, this is the inherent problem. There are people using one definition of "high tier" and then there is this. So much hype and anticipation for Rhythm Heaven, give me a break, fam.

That "rumor" is really just common sense. Most people would believe that after looking at that line-up you just presented.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Not exactly. Nintendo removing them also means they give an indicator it's real. Leaving 'em up may be all they can do. It's also possible nobody reported it because it looks fake to them. Unless it's the employees who see it, it won't matter.

It doesn't really mean anything at this time. Maybe if it's still up far later, but even then, why would they take the chance of validating the leak? They're screwed either way. What would matter is if they had no choice but to take it down, but keep in mind stuff like mods can be taken down for IP reasons anyway(not saying it's a mod), which makes the whole "taking it down guarantees it's a leak" to be somewhat dubious.

That's exactly why they would take it down. Your argument that "Them removing it validates is" is kind of invalidated by the fact that they've removed actual leaked footage of Super Smash Bros 4.

So of course they would take it down if it was real. Nintendo doesn't care if you believe it or not. What they care about is that people are releasing their content without their permission and they are going to put a stop to it.

 

[Cosmic77]

Not really.


I definitely agree with your sentiment; however, it is a bit difficult to imagine that now is when we get a one-off Zelda character merely because we are coming off Breath of the Wild. Not many viable characters outside of the champions. I would love to be surprised and as you stated, if it were to happen anytime, there is no time like the present. Other than that, perhaps an assist trophy upgrade.

To be completely honest with you, I am pretty salty because last time I expected a Zelda character and it did not happen. So now, I am just sulking and hoping that it happens while I have low expectations.

I can understand the feeling. The only reason why I have so much faith in a BotW character is because the series has never had a game so ground-breaking and so well-received since OoT. More is riding on this game and the future of Zelda in Smash than what people think. Seems like a good chance we could get someone new, but even if Sakurai didn't plan for a Zelda newcomer, there was still PLENTY of time following the release of BotW for him to change his mind and add someone last minute. If Smash Switch rolls around, and we fail to get any Zelda characters on the base roster or even as DLC, then I'd start abandoning hope.

Not to sound utterly pessimistic, but if a monster like BotW isn't enough to get the series a newcomer, what hope does the future Zelda games honestly have? Sad to say, but probably not much.

 

[Garteam]

So after watching Omni's video about the leak, I looked into the point about the leaked images being direct screen grabs. His claim is that they were not grabbed using the Switch's snapshot button on the joycon controllers because those images get more compressed than we see in the leak. So then I got thinking, what if I compare the image to the quality taken using the in game snapshot feature in Smash Wii U, and its an EXACT match down to the pixel size. Both are 1280 by 720 pixels and compressed in the same way.

MANY modders including Omni himself feels very confident that this leak was not made using mods, but instead made using 3D rendering software. That could be the case, but would the rendering software also produce images at the EXACT SAME size and quality of those produced using the Smash Bros feature?! If Smash 5 is created off of Smash 4's engine, I think that is a huge sign that this may be legit.

One unanswered question is why the snapshot button is missing from the GUI in this version though.

Thing that sets this off as fake, at least for me, is just how high Springman jumped.

Springman jumps to the height of about 3 Decidueyes stacked on top of each other. Assuming Decidueye is around Mario's height, this would mean Springman's jump would be slightly below Falco's in Wii U, the highest in that game. Unless Springman is similar to Yoshi and has a fantastic jump to make for an up special with limited ability to recover, that height just feels off. For Falco it makes a little more sense, Falco is a bird and a preference towards aerial combat has been a stable of his character both in Star Fox and Super Smash Bros. ARMS' characters are able to jump high, but thats more the make aerial mobility an option in ARMS rather than a signature aspect of the gameplay.

I know this is far from science, but Sakurai tends to take painstaking efforts to make sure characters in Smash feel like they do in their native series. I just can't see him giving Springman this massive jump for no reason.

 

[Inawordyes]

You do realize the Chorus Kids were never intended to be playable characters right? I mean as far as we know. We know there was a Rhythm Heaven character was planned, but the Gematsu Leak that said it was the Chorus Kids had no source or citation. So there's nothing suggesting Chorus Kids were intended to be playable.


Probably because the Switch itself takes snapshots so there's no need. It's still fake though.

The Gematsu leak was a leak of the original project plan. The only newcomer missing who was revealed before everybody named in the leak was Rosalina (with Shulk, Bowser Jr. and DHD also being absent, as well as of course Lucina and Dark Pit who were alt costumes at the time of course), and everything else - Chrom over Robin (originally on the project plan and was removed and replaced out with Robin), "Pokémon from X & Y" (Sakurai made a placeholder spot for an XY Pokémon and chose Greninja a little while after the project started), and the Chorus Kids (RH being the only non-playable series to have enimies in Smash Run, data in the Wii U files indicating that a Rhythm Heaven character was planned at some point before being scrapped) - was either explained by Sakurai himself in interviews or corroborated by leftover data. It also specifically name the Mii Fighters as such a year before they'd even be revealed and at a time when everybody thought they'd just be Mii's, and the 6 fighters he did reveal ended up being the E3 reveals in back-to-back years.

So you're right, we have no concrete proof that the Chorus Kids were for-sure the RH character, but with everything else that the Gematsu leak got correct, and with basically the only thing it got incorrect of all it claimed that we have absolutely no record of or explanation from Sakurai over is the Chorus Kids, there's no reason to assume that the Rhythm Heaven character worked on was anything other than a fighter who would be known as the Chorus Kids/Chorus Men in-game.

 

[Senselessbreak]

So while I edited my above post, I'd like to clarify that it actually appears Artsy Omni was wrong about the compression quality of the image compared to Switch images. Both are saved at the same quality. As are images from Smash Wii U.

The missing snapshot button would suggest Smash no longer uses a native capture and uses the Switch's internal capture. Another huge attention to detail that seems huge. I mean again, it just seems too spot on that the images were outputted at the same quality if they were created using a 3D render and not an in game engine.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Thing that sets this off as fake, at least for me, is just how high Springman jumped.

Springman jumps to the height of about 3 Decidueyes stacked on top of each other. Assuming Decidueye is around Mario's height. This would mean Springman's jump would be slightly below Falco's in Wii U, the highest in that game. Unless Springman is similar to Yoshi and has a fantastic jump to make for an up special with limited ability to recover, that height just feels off. For Falco it makes a little more sense, Falco is a bird and a preference aerial combat has been a stable of his character both in Star Fox and Super Smash Bros. ARMS' characters are able to jump high, but thats more the make aerial mobility an option in ARMS rather than a signature aspect of the gameplay.

I know this is far from science, but Sakurai tends to take painstaking efforts to make sure characters in Smash feel like they do in their native series. I just can't see him giving Springman this massive jump for no reason.

Just aside from the fact that it's obviously fake just by looking at it. I love how he expects us to believe "Look. I have the game right in front of me and the controller in my hand, but I'm not going to make them fight. I'm just going to make Spring Man lazily jump and punch."

It's like,

"Look guys! It's real!

"Then play it!"

"Well...I could! If I wanted to! But, I'm not gonna. But, look, I can make him jump!"