Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bionichute]

THEY BROUGHT BACK THE ABSOLUTE WORST PART OF SMASH 4'S--!!!!!

wait wait wait wait wait, how exactly do you unlock them?


But are all the non-series-specific ones still in? (I know mech suit for Brawlers is still in, but did the others make it as well?)

you can either unlock them randomly or buy them in the shop, and all of the costumes are back aside from 3rd party ones

 

[Zinith]

Classic Mode bosses of every character.

Spoiler

Master Hand:
Peach
Daisy
Dr. Mario
Bowser Jr.
Samus
Dark Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Ridley
Fox
Pikachu (fights Mewtwo first)
Pokemon Trainer (fights Mewtwo first)
Pichu
Lucario
Greninja
Sheik
Ganondorf
Ness
Lucas
Lucina
Robin
Corrin
Mr. Game & Watch
Wario
Olimar
Villager
Isabelle
Wii Fit Trainer
Palutena
Little Mac
Shulk
Cloud

Master Hand & Crazy Hand:
Donkey Kong (on Omega New Donk City instead of Final Destination)
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Meta Knight
Mewtwo
Incineroar
Ice Climbers
Ike
Chrom
Pit
Sonic
Ryu

Note: It's possible that characters who fight Master Hand also fight Crazy Hand on higher difficulties since I had King Dedede on this list as Master Hand/Crazy Hand but the video I saw had him only fighting Master Hand.

Crazy Hand:
Falco
Ken

Galleom:
K. Rool
Wolf
R.O.B
Snake
Dark Pit
Mega Man (as his second to last stage. Mega Man's final stage is against Dr. Mario as a reference to Dr. Wily.)

Dracula:
Luigi
Pac-Man
Simon
Richter

Ganon:
Link
Zelda
Young Link
Toon Link

Giga Bowser:
Mario
Captain Falcon

Marx:
Kirby
Inkling
Rosalina

Rathalos:
Yoshi
Marth
Duck Hunt


Characters that don't fight regular bosses:
Bayonetta (Giant Palutena)
Jigglypuff (Giant DK)
Bowser (Mario who after being KO'd turns into Metal Mario with the theme from 64 playing)

Great!!!

Spoiler

Though you're missing Roy

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Now for my first post, Isabelle's fishing rod gets nerfed into the ground with Pikachu guaranteed.

Is... is that Numbuh 3 I see with a Rainbow Monkey?

...I haven't seen Kids Next Door in years... it was so good though.

 

[Kemasc]

you can either unlock them randomly or buy them in the shop, and all of the costumes are back aside from 3rd party ones

You buy them in the shop by getting coins through the different modes, yeah? Still a little unclear on that myself.

 

[SirCamp]

Whether a game is good or not has nothing to do with whether anybody buys it.

It's the 9th best selling mainline game in the franchise, selling only more than the early NES/SNES ones from before the franchise became the household name it is now. It had a larger budget than VII and failed to sell even half as much.

Like I said, 9 was never as popular as many of the other FF entries, but selling worse than even 8 other FF games is not the same as bombing. Granted I can't say I care to really verify, but wiki is telling me that 9 sold 5.5 million copies. Is that amazing compared to other FF games? No. But I would never, ever say that it bombed either.

 

[DevaAshera]

Well the summons are at least from other games (except Bahamut ZERO who's a variant of the recurring Bahamut) and Ifrit uses his FFVIII design. The chocobo hat is also based on the Chocobo series and not FFVII. So there's some none FFVII content but room for more (room for more anything FF really).

Well, yeah, Bahamut ZERO is the only one exclusive to Final Fantasy VII, but all of the other summons do use their Final Fantasy VII designs...except Ifrit who uses a design similar to his Final Fantasy VIII design, but not exact..its inspired by it for sure though. This may be due to Ifrit's design carrying that type of design with feiry red hair and such following VIII and Sakurai wanting him to be immediately recognized as Ifrit even by non-FFVII players.

That said, while Ifrit and the Chocobo Hat are from non-VII sources, none of them appear as Trophies, making them not count in a strange sort of way since the Trophy Category of 'Final Fantasy VII' still fits when the only trophies are of Cloud for his Default, Alt, and Final Smash.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Just a reminder, Mewtwo is the one character yet to be shown off on the blog, while Piranha Plant is most likely exempt as a result of its status as DLC.

 

[segillav]

Great!!!

Spoiler

Though you're missing Roy

Of course I forgot Roy lol, should be complete now.

 

[FirestormNeos]

all of the costumes are back aside from 3rd party ones

Phew!

you can either unlock them randomly or buy them in the shop

are they all available in the shop at all times, with no stupid "item rotation" like Smash 4's trophy shop?

 

[vaanrose]

Like I said, 9 was never as popular as many of the other FF entries, but selling worse than even 8 other FF games is not the same as bombing. Granted I can't say I care to really verify, but wiki is telling me that 9 sold 5.5 million copies. Is that amazing compared to other FF games? No. But I would never, ever say that it bombed either.

What matters is whether a game does well enough for the company that made it to consider it a success or a failure. IX cost more to make than VII, and made less than half as much in return. That's the reason X, XII, XIII and XV are all in line with the tone set by VII while IX remains the outlier, which is exactly the point I was making. The one time they've tried to not simply remake VII, it failed to attract the same audience.

 

[Bionichute]

Phew!



are they all available in the shop at all times, with no stupid "item rotation" like Smash 4's trophy shop?

item rotation sorry

 

[DevaAshera]

What matters is whether a game does well enough for the company that made it to consider it a success or a failure. IX cost more to make than VII, and made less than half as much in return. That's the reason X, XII, XIII and XV are all in line with the tone set by VII while IX remains the outlier, which is exactly the point I was making. The one time they've tried to not simply remake VII, it failed to attract the same audience.

Well..FFX didn't do too badly and it definitely wasn't in the same tone as FFVII.

 

[Idon]

What matters is whether a game does well enough for the company that made it to consider it a success or a failure. IX cost more to make than VII, and made less than half as much in return. That's the reason X, XII, XIII and XV are all in line with the tone set by VII while IX remains the outlier, which is exactly the point I was making. The one time they've tried to not simply remake VII, it failed to attract the same audience.

You say that, but I can't help but think X, XII, and XV are super different aesthetically and tonally from VII, especially X.
Like XII had that Star Wars aesthetic thing going on and XV (outside of its initial trailer) just generally focused around the road trip aspect.
X especially is like the total opposite. Extremely vibrant colors, a focus on tropical islands and the ocean, and a loud protagonist athlete.

I think SE understands how influential FF7 is, but I don't think they're trying to emulate its success by imitating its style.

 

[SirCamp]

Well..FFX didn't do too badly and it definitely wasn't in the same tone as FFVII.

Neither was XII. Like at all. Which granted, XII got a lot of flack unfortunately, but it redeemed itself a fair amount with the Zodiac age version.

But I'm not trying to imply that FF is going to return to the style of IX or that FFIX content should be expected in Smash or anything of the sort. I just took issue with the idea that the game bombed. It didn't make as much money as the other entries by a wide margin, but it still made them money. And a lot of it. A game bombing, to me, implies that it either lost the company money or got close to it.

But again I don't disagree that FFIX's sales likely steered SE away from it's campier stylings. If you stand to make more money doing it another way, why not? I just don't think that that means the game bombed.

 

[VashTehStampede]

Wow this looks dumb https://twitter.com/_glacey/status/1070168741596618753?s=19

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Wow this looks dumb https://twitter.com/_glacey/status/1070168741596618753?s=19

That's absolute garbage.

I love it.

 

[The Original Robot boy]

We're almost there aw man I can't wait!

 

[BlondeLombax]

Hey, has any art been made referencing Daisy's third eye in Melee? It seems more appropriate than ever now that she's a fighter.

 

[MainJPW]

Wow this looks dumb https://twitter.com/_glacey/status/1070168741596618753?s=19

Trash. I’m going back to Smash 4.

 

[vaanrose]

Well..FFX didn't do too badly and it definitely wasn't in the same tone as FFVII.

You say that, but I can't help but think X, XII, and XV are super different aesthetically and tonally from VII, especially X.
Like XII had that Star Wars aesthetic thing going on and XV (outside of its initial trailer) just generally focused around the road trip aspect.
X especially is like the total opposite. Extremely vibrant colors, a focus on tropical islands and the ocean, and a loud protagonist.

I think SE understands how influential FF7 is, but I don't think they're trying to emulate its success by imitating its style.

I'd argue X is the most like VII. It tilted the series back into dieselpunk after IX turned away from it (and even technically takes place in the same universe, look it up) and its core cast is largely rehashing the VII characters, more aesthetically than writing wise, but even then. Tidus may be loud and obnoxious compared to Cloud, but he's got the same false memories about himself and mid-game twist connection to the big bad. Auron has Vincent's mysterious silent ronin in red shtick. Your token animal teammate is once again a native American inspired cat wolf. Rikku is literally just Yuffie, and Yuna slots nicely into Aeris's quiet, reserved nice girl whose fate is to die to save the planet. And I'm hardly the first person to compare Seymour to Sephiroth. Nomura's gonna Nomura.

As for XII, the game didn't even originally feature Vaan until somebody realized they forgot to add in the pretty blonde boy the franchise had become known for at that point. I haven't played XV so I won't comment on it beyond the fact that aesthetically it looks more like Advent Children than even VII does.

 

[FirestormNeos]

item rotation sorry

Okay, final question; does buying something take it out of the rotation, or are there duplicates?

 

[PLATINUM7]

I'd argue X is the most like VII. It tilted the series back into dieselpunk after IX turned away from it (and even technically takes place in the same universe, look it up) and its core cast is largely rehashing the VII characters, more aesthetically than writing wise, but even then. Tidus may be loud and obnoxious compared to Cloud, but he's got the same false memories about himself and mid-game twist connection to the big bad. Auron has Vincent's mysterious silent ronin in red shtick. Your token animal teammate is once again a native American inspired cat wolf. Rikku is literally just Yuffie, and Yuna slots nicely into Aeris's quiet, reserved nice girl whose fate is to die to save the planet. And I'm hardly the first person to compare Seymour to Sephiroth. Nomura's gonna Nomura.

As for XII, the game didn't even originally feature Vaan until somebody realized they forgot to add in the pretty blonde boy the franchise had become known for at that point. I haven't played XV so I won't comment on it beyond the fact that aesthetically it looks more like Advent Children than even VII does.

Bringing up FFX and VII sharing the same universe is just cheating.

 

[vaanrose]

Bringing up FFX and VII sharing the same universe is just cheating.

You can't deny that was added in just to connect the game to the legacy of the popular one, especially considering the two titles really have no connection at all and no mainline games had ever been in the same universe before.

 

[Zinith]

You can't deny that was added in just to connect the game to the legacy of the popular one, especially considering the two titles really have no connection at all and no mainline games had ever been in the same universe before.

There's also the fact that XII takes place in a pre-established universe introduced in a spin-off, which ALSO has story connections with VII...

Yeah...

 

[PLATINUM7]

You can't deny that was added in just to connect the game to the legacy of the popular one, especially considering the two titles really have no connection at all and no mainline games had ever been in the same universe before.

FF is no stranger to making allusions to other titles. Nomura coming in and saying the two are actually connected just felt really tacked on to me. It's not like Gilgamesh being the same character throughout. The whole Shinra leaves Spira and colonises the world of FFVII is hard to believe.

There's also the fact that XII takes place in a pre-established universe introduced in a spin-off, which ALSO has story connections with VII...

Yeah...

Wasn't that just Cloud somehow ending up in Ivalice? That's sort of passable given that Gilgamesh (and potentially Shinryu and Omega) appears in multiple FF worlds.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Reading all these FF post (is this FFBoards?) makes me super confused.

I thought all FF# are separated and doesn't take place in the same universe.

 

[vaanrose]

FF is no stranger to making allusions to other titles. Nomura coming in and saying the two are actually connected just felt really tacked on to me. It's not like Gilgamesh being the same character throughout. The whole Shinra leaves Spira and colonises the world of FFVII is hard to believe.

It's stupid, is what it is, lol. It's still there.

Reading all these FF post (is this FFBoards?) makes me super confused.

I thought all FF# are separated and doesn't take place in the same universe.

Effectively, they are all separate. Even VII and X aren't really connected beyond a single throwaway line.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Reading all these FF post (is this FFBoards?) makes me super confused.

I thought all FF# are separated and doesn't take place in the same universe.

It's either a multiverse or given the VII and X connection, just different planets. The Dissidia games also loosely connect them, having Cosmos and Chaos being able to bring in competitors from different worlds.

The void, a recurring element, seems to be able to allow people to traverse the different FF worlds. Gilgamesh who was caught in the void pops up in other games and is heavily implied to be same character throughout nearly all of his appearances. Shinryu and Omega may also travel through the void as stated in their flavour texts (can't remember which game but I think the idea was Omega chases Shinryu through to each new world).

Beyond that, the only other shared universe stuff is Ivalice being a shared setting in Tactics, XII and Vagrant Story and the Fabula Nova Crystallis meant to be feature the same gods that created the worlds. Otherwise its just similar elements, characters, etc.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Reading all these FF post (is this FFBoards?) makes me super confused.

I thought all FF# are separated and doesn't take place in the same universe.

No you see it's all made clear in the Kingdom Hearts story


So there's this thing called the darkness....

 

[SoccerStar9001]

No you see it's all made clear in the Kingdom Hearts story


So there's this thing called the darkness....

LOL KINGDOM HEARTS LORE.

I just remember I want a KH collection for Switch.

 

[zeldasmash]

Trash. I’m going back to Smash 4.

You can drop items during any time?

.....well I guess Diddy, Peach, Daisy, Snake and the Link's have combo breakers now.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm glad this means we're probably gonna get constant updates with new Spirits. Love the concept and it can allow us to get some of the ones who missed the base game.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Zeox]

I'm glad this means we're probably gonna get constant updates with new Spirits. Love the concept and it can allow us to get some of the ones who missed the base game.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So that's the whole list of spirits for the patch 1, only 5 new spirits? anyone knows what else has the patch?

 

[Deleted member]

So that's the whole list of spirits for the patch 1, only 5 new spirits? anyone knows what else has the patch?

I'd think so. If anything else comes up, Mizumi should post it but balance changes are gonna be really hard to find.

 

[segillav]

Minor correction to the Classic Mode boss list:

Spoiler: Bowser's Classic Mode

Bowser fights Rathalos but not in the final round.

 

[Luminario]

Classic Mode bosses of every character.

Spoiler

Master Hand:
Peach
Daisy
Dr. Mario
Bowser Jr.
Samus
Dark Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Ridley
Fox
Pikachu (fights Mewtwo first)
Pokemon Trainer (fights Mewtwo first)
Pichu
Lucario
Greninja
Sheik
Ganondorf
Ness
Lucas
Lucina
Roy
Robin
Corrin
Mr. Game & Watch
Wario
Olimar
Villager
Isabelle
Wii Fit Trainer
Palutena
Little Mac
Shulk
Cloud

Master Hand & Crazy Hand:
Donkey Kong (on Omega New Donk City instead of Final Destination)
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Meta Knight
Mewtwo
Incineroar
Ice Climbers
Ike
Chrom
Pit
Sonic
Ryu

Note: It's possible that characters who fight Master Hand also fight Crazy Hand on higher difficulties since I had King Dedede on this list as Master Hand/Crazy Hand but the video I saw had him only fighting Master Hand.

Crazy Hand:
Falco
Ken

Galleom:
K. Rool
Wolf
R.O.B
Snake
Dark Pit
Mega Man (as his second to last stage. Mega Man's final stage is against Dr. Mario as a reference to Dr. Wily.)

Dracula:
Luigi
Pac-Man
Simon
Richter

Ganon:
Link
Zelda
Young Link
Toon Link

Giga Bowser:
Mario
Captain Falcon

Marx:
Kirby
Inkling
Rosalina

Rathalos:
Yoshi
Marth
Duck Hunt
Bowser (not his final round. His final round is Mario who after being KO'd turns into Metal Mario with the theme from 64 playing)


Characters that don't fight regular bosses:
Bayonetta (Giant Palutena)
Jigglypuff (Giant DK)

Spoiler

Why is my girl Peach fighting Master Hand? She should be second in line for beating down Giga Bowser here, right after Mario.

 

[Zinith]

Spoiler

Why is my girl Peach fighting Master Hand? She should be second in line for beating down Giga Bowser here, right after Mario.

Spoiler

Well technically that would be my boi, but him fighting Rathalos is pretty cool too

 

[Deleted member]

I'm actually kinda disappointed

Spoiler: Classic Mode bosses

Only the Zelda characters fight Ganon. They easily could have Pit fighting him, for example.

 

[osby]

I'm actually kinda disappointed

Spoiler: Classic Mode bosses

Only the Zelda characters fight Ganon. They easily could have Pit fighting him, for example.

I'm more disappointed with

Spoiler

only three characters having giant enemies instead of bosses

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'd think so. If anything else comes up, Mizumi should post it but balance changes are gonna be really hard to find.

God, I can see K.Rool mains trying desperately to figure out how much percent K.Rool's armour breaks at every patch