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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Of course. That's because amiibo was created for Smash.

IMO, amiibo should have ended with Smash... but Nintendo wanted to print money so we have many other amiibo even if they are shallowly implemented.
I feel it's just the way they're implemented that makes them bad.

I mean, Animal Crossin amiibo had a very bad first impression since they were introduced in what is basically the worst game Nintendo's ever made.

Splatoon and, seemingly, its sequel, have gear that can only be gotten thanks to scanning the figures.
Splatoon 2's amiibo also allow you to save equipment sets, which can give people more incentive to buy them.

Considering that skills in equipment are 100% RNG, this is a pretty neat feature.
 

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Animal Crossing... ugh... I love the series but the amiibo line was poorly executed.

And now those amiibo are only good for amiibo Festival, Happy Home Designer, and Super Mario Maker.

I really would like Nintendo to make more Animal Crossing spin-off games to justify the existence of the amiibo line.

Maybe Animal Crossing Warriors or something would be nice... and the amiibo saves your stats and equipment.
 

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Animal Crossing... ugh... I love the series but the amiibo line was poorly executed.

And now those amiibo are only good for amiibo Festival, Happy Home Designer, and Super Mario Maker.

I really would like Nintendo to make more Animal Crossing spin-off games to justify the existence of the amiibo line.

Maybe Animal Crossing Warriors or something would be nice... and the amiibo saves your stats and equipment.
Animal Crossing Warriors would definitely never happen. It doesn't fit the brand at all.

That being said, I'll bring this back to Smash.

What types of added amiibo functionality would you all like to see added to a future Smash?
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Animal Crossing... ugh... I love the series but the amiibo line was poorly executed.

And now those amiibo are only good for amiibo Festival, Happy Home Designer, and Super Mario Maker.

I really would like Nintendo to make more Animal Crossing spin-off games to justify the existence of the amiibo line.

Maybe Animal Crossing Warriors or something would be nice... and the amiibo saves your stats and equipment.
I'd like an actual Animal Crossing game first and foremost.
 

Arcadenik

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Animal Crossing Warriors would definitely never happen. It doesn't fit the brand at all.
Never say never. Remember when we thought Villager would never be in Smash because Animal Crossing characters are too peaceful for Smash. ;)

What types of added amiibo functionality would you all like to see added to a future Smash?
Hmm... I don't know yet...

Look at this... http://www.smashbros.com/sp/us/howto/entry8.html

What needs to be added on top of the features the amiibo already have?

How about trading figure fighters?
 

Kirbeh

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That being said, I'll bring this back to Smash.

What types of added amiibo functionality would you all like to see added to a future Smash?
Not related to amiibo fighters at all, but perhaps allowing players to save names/controller settings onto the amiibo which can be scanned onto other systems.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Never say never. Remember when we thought Villager would never be in Smash because Animal Crossing characters are too peaceful for Smash. ;)
Smash is one thing because it represents Nintendo as a whole, or even gaming if we count third parties.

Animal Crossing just doesn't fit the Warriors style because of what the franchise is.

Legend of Zelda and Fire Emblem work because you can make a story that suits the Warriors style, usually two nations at war.

Animal Crossing just doesn't work for something like this and would garner a lot of hate from AC fans because of how it basically is everything the franchise isn't.

Would be nice to have a Kid Icarus Warriors until we're done waiting 25 years for a sequel to Uprising though :p
 
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Megadoomer

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Animal Crossing Warriors would definitely never happen. It doesn't fit the brand at all.

That being said, I'll bring this back to Smash.

What types of added amiibo functionality would you all like to see added to a future Smash?
Maybe make them serve as an alternative to unlock methods for characters? One thing I found disappointing about Smash 4, especially the Wii U version, was the lack of unlockable content; not sure how that would work for DLC characters, but it could make for an alternative method. (having very few unlockable characters kind of sucks, but I don't think anyone would want a repeat of Brawl where major characters like Sonic and Snake have to be unlocked either)
 

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Uh.

There are a lot of assist trophies that were never considered for a fighter.

Need I remind you, several of them simply cannot function as a character?
Got me thinking though, which Assist Trophy characters you guys think where once considered as playable characters? :4littlemac:

With Brawl, I was pretty certain that Lyn, Isaac, Waluigi, Jill Dozer, Starfy and of course Little Mac where considered as playable characters. But the return of most of these characters as Assist Trophies made me think that this wasn't as much the case. Especially Isaac being completely absent was weird, so out of all the Brawl throphies not presented otherwise, I think he was already on the drawing table but somehow never made it.

Samurai Goroh was also considered for Brawl am sure, the way he moves around the battle field suggest that some work was done on him already. I had a similar vibe with Waluigi, who seems to even had jumping animations and the like.

With Smash For, I really thought that characters as Dark Samus and Ghirahim felt far more 'complete' than other Assist Trophies. Ghirahim you can even hit for example. They might've put work on Ghirahim and / or Midna as a new Zelda character, but decided against it for God knows why (I'd really appriciate a new Zelda character).

Actually, am pretty sure there's a lot of characters and stuff they come up with during development that might get saved for a next game.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Got me thinking though, which Assist Trophy characters you guys think where once considered as playable characters? :4littlemac:

With Brawl, I was pretty certain that Lyn, Isaac, Waluigi, Jill Dozer, Starfy and of course Little Mac where considered as playable characters. But the return of most of these characters as Assist Trophies made me think that this wasn't as much the case. Especially Isaac being completely absent was weird, so out of all the Brawl throphies not presented otherwise, I think he was already on the drawing table but somehow never made it.

Samurai Goroh was also considered for Brawl am sure, the way he moves around the battle field suggest that some work was done on him already. I had a similar vibe with Waluigi, who seems to even had jumping animations and the like.

With Smash For, I really thought that characters as Dark Samus and Ghirahim felt far more 'complete' than other Assist Trophies. Ghirahim you can even hit for example. They might've put work on Ghirahim and / or Midna as a new Zelda character, but decided against it for God knows why (I'd really appriciate a new Zelda character).

Actually, am pretty sure there's a lot of characters and stuff they come up with during development that might get saved for a next game.
I don't really think any of the characters that made it into Brawl as Assists were considered for playable characters. Starfy, Samurai Goroh, Jill Dozer, and Lyn I don't think were heavily considered if at all. I don't even think Mac was heavily considered before Wii U. On Dark Samus and Ghirahim, again, I doubt it. Most of the assist trophies can be hit in this game. Takamaru, Waluigi, Starfy, and the two you mentioned can all be attacked and pretty much KO'd. Considering Isaac wasn't in the game at all, and him being one of the more requested characters is weird because most of the others that didn't make it were not all that big of characters.

I dunno maybe some of them were considered at the very beginning of development on the two games but if they were I don't think it was for long.
 

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I don't really think any of the characters that made it into Brawl as Assists were considered for playable characters. Starfy, Samurai Goroh, Jill Dozer, and Lyn I don't think were heavily considered if at all. I don't even think Mac was heavily considered before Wii U. On Dark Samus and Ghirahim, again, I doubt it. Most of the assist trophies can be hit in this game. Takamaru, Waluigi, Starfy, and the two you mentioned can all be attacked and pretty much KO'd. Considering Isaac wasn't in the game at all, and him being one of the more requested characters is weird because most of the others that didn't make it were not all that big of characters.

I dunno maybe some of them were considered at the very beginning of development on the two games but if they were I don't think it was for long.
The Smash roster probably begins as a long list of preliminary candidates which gets narrowed down over time, so to think none of the ATs characters were on there at any point in the game's development history seems short-sighted to me, especially since the ATs house some of the most popular non-playable characters.
 

Cutie Gwen

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StarFox Zero is a retelling, not a remake. The game introduces enough new features.
What's the difference? Metroid Zero Mission was Metroid 1 with more plot, more areas, more bosses and features. Mario 64 DS had the same thing. Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon had a Marth who had a different personality than the original game and I don't feel like mentioning the differences between New Mystery of the Emblem and the original
Miyamoto has made it clear
The same Miyamoto who believes Paper Mario is the experimental Mario franchise and can't be an RPG because Mario & Luigi exists? Not too sure
Animal Crossing Warriors would definitely never happen. It doesn't fit the brand at all.

That being said, I'll bring this back to Smash.

What types of added amiibo functionality would you all like to see added to a future Smash?
I expect in game currency like coins to be added like in Team Kirby Clash Deluxe and fragments.
What I'd like is that Miis return and unlocking costumes and stuff being like Mario Maker. An amiibo can outright give you a specific one and not have to rely on RNG or coins

After playing Specter of Torment, I figured a trip down memory lane could be neat. What's everyone's opinion on Shovel Knight now compared to when the rumours were everywhere? Considering old Butt Butt's game was published by Nintendo in Japan and Specter of Torment was exclusive to the Switch for a while, I think he's more likely, but still not by a long shot
 

Diddy Kong

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The Smash roster probably begins as a long list of preliminary candidates which gets narrowed down over time, so to think none of the ATs characters were on there at any point in the game's development history seems short-sighted to me, especially since the ATs house some of the most popular non-playable characters.
This.

And personally, I think even playable characters where considered as ATs once. The prime example being :4wiifit:, but I also suspect :4duckhunt:.
 
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After playing Specter of Torment, I figured a trip down memory lane could be neat. What's everyone's opinion on Shovel Knight now compared to when the rumours were everywhere? Considering old Butt Butt's game was published by Nintendo in Japan and Specter of Torment was exclusive to the Switch for a while, I think he's more likely, but still not by a long shot
I think he has a chance now that his game has been released in Japan, but I never viewed him as particularly likely. A trophy cameo wouldn't surprise me, though, considering that Nintendo published his game in Japan.
 

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This.

And personally, I think even playable characters where considered as ATs once. The prime example being :4wiifit:, but I also suspect :4duckhunt:.
Ducks, not the Duck Hunt Dog, were considered as Assist Trophy.

I'm glad Sakurai saw it my way instead of listening to the detractors. :smirk:
 

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The Smash roster probably begins as a long list of preliminary candidates which gets narrowed down over time, so to think none of the ATs characters were on there at any point in the game's development history seems short-sighted to me, especially since the ATs house some of the most popular non-playable characters.
That's not what I was inferring. Diddy Kong Diddy Kong had mentioned that he had figured some work had been done on a few of them, like Ghirahim, before they decided to not continue with character development, sidelining them to the Assist Trophies. I don't see that as realistic in the slightest and if they were considered it was so early that they would been developed into assist trophies from the start of development.
This.

And personally, I think even playable characters where considered as ATs once. The prime example being :4wiifit:, but I also suspect :4duckhunt:.
This is actually pretty believable. While I don't agree with your speculation that characters were given up on and sidelined to assist trophies, this is a very interesting assessment and could definitely have happened.
 

PsychoJosh

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How do people feel about western cartoon-styled game characters being in Smash I know the Smash fanbase has a lot of anime fans, so I'm just wondering if having characters that cater to western cartoon art styles sort of creates a polarizing effect.

I mean, I just started thinking about this because of my Earthworm Jim support thread. I have to wonder how fans of the more anime-styled characters like Marth, Cloud and Corrin would react to a character like Jim being in the game.
 

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I feel like quite a few of the Assist Trophies have the potential to be interesting characters just based off their main focuses as assists, even more so this time around than in Brawl. I know it sounds like a stretch, but hear me out:
  • Dark Samus: Her AT uses a rapid-fire multihit move (like Mii Gunner's F-Smash), a large homing energy orb that stuns, and a Phazon tendril attack with a large AoE. That alone sets her up as a defensive turtle type who has plenty of ways to poke and keep distance, but has to play risky and intelligently to kill.
  • Ghirahim: Teleports, sword slashes and his energy daggers give me the vibe of a close-range rushdown character who relies on one-on-one combat up close and personal, maybe utilizing a homing / marking system like he used in Hyrule Warriors (or like Maypul in Rivals of Aether) and a parry / counter to emphasize the narrow style of play.
There are plenty of unique paths to go with most characters that don't necessarily involve pulling everything they do from their games of origin to function exactly as it did there, with little to no creative elbow room. Of course, that isn't to say that kind of design is horrible (It gave us Mega Man, Ryu, Bayonetta...), but I think that with a cast as diverse as Nintendo's, there's a lot of characters who have unique skillsets, it's just that recognition, popularity, marketability, and cast diversity play major roles in the roster as well.

That's not to mention characters who don't do much attack-wise in their Assist Trophies, but still have plenty of potential as characters (Skull Kid, Ashley, Isaac). I would bet money that at least one Assist from SSB4 would make it as a character next time around in a proper Smash 5 (or whatever number it's considered). As for who? Safe guess is Isabelle, considering how much Nintendo pushes her as a Nintendo all-star. Then again, they do the same with Toad, and he's still M.I.A., so what do I know?
 

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How do people feel about western cartoon-styled game characters being in Smash I know the Smash fanbase has a lot of anime fans, so I'm just wondering if having characters that cater to western cartoon art styles sort of creates a polarizing effect.

I mean, I just started thinking about this because of my Earthworm Jim support thread. I have to wonder how fans of the more anime-styled characters like Marth, Cloud and Corrin would react to a character like Jim being in the game.



This is about as Tex Avery as it can get. Duck Hunt is all but a Looney Tunes character trapped in a fighting game.
 
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How do people feel about western cartoon-styled game characters being in Smash I know the Smash fanbase has a lot of anime fans, so I'm just wondering if having characters that cater to western cartoon art styles sort of creates a polarizing effect.

I mean, I just started thinking about this because of my Earthworm Jim support thread. I have to wonder how fans of the more anime-styled characters like Marth, Cloud and Corrin would react to a character like Jim being in the game.
My two most wanted characters are Chrom and Crash Bandicoot. I'd be fine. :p
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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How do people feel about western cartoon-styled game characters being in Smash I know the Smash fanbase has a lot of anime fans, so I'm just wondering if having characters that cater to western cartoon art styles sort of creates a polarizing effect.

I mean, I just started thinking about this because of my Earthworm Jim support thread. I have to wonder how fans of the more anime-styled characters like Marth, Cloud and Corrin would react to a character like Jim being in the game.
I personally prefer to judge what characters can do before judging what they look like.

Whether they look anime or not, it won't matter to me if their moveset doesn't interest me in the slightest.
 
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Parappa fits the bill as far as cartoony characters go, but he's a Sony character so he's impossible.

I guess that honor goes to ARMS characters, Tin Star, Inklings, a Wars character, Chibi Robo, Captain Rainbow, Tingle, and maybe Isabelle.
 

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Your guess is as good as mine
As for who? Safe guess is Isabelle, considering how much Nintendo pushes her as a Nintendo all-star. Then again, they do the same with Toad, and he's still M.I.A., so what do I know?
I think Toad is just missing due to being in Peach's B move and that there are simply other Mario characters who can do more unique things like Rosi and Jr. He's probably always been seen as a candidate but he doesn't really jump out.

I still think Isabelle and Ashley are pretty likely newcomers. They're both ATs and Mii costumes, both fan favourites (and popping up a lot in the Badge Arcade thanks to that), both have clear gimmicks unused in Smash (Public Work Project traps and debuffs respectively), and Isabelle was even chosen as the second AC rep for Mario Kart.
 
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That being said, I'll bring this back to Smash.

What types of added amiibo functionality would you all like to see added to a future Smash?
I was thinking of a "discount" method for certain purchasable items (in Smash coins) for a certain franchises as part of the "Smash Museum" idea I keep talking about. Of course, I would limit the use of Amiibo to like once or twice a day and cannot use the same Amiibo twice.
 

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I would actually like Ghirahim to be the next Zelda rep now. It gets serious when you realize Link, Zelda, Sheik and Ganondorf can be bland characters. I really hope Toon Link remains because he lightens the mood.

I didn't think I would be suddenly sick of Zelda's treatment. Smash NEEDS! Ghirahim.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Not gonna lie, if Ghirahim gets in Smash, I'd main him even if he was low tier because I just have a feeling Sakurai would make him a ton of fun to play.
 

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i'm sick of zelda's treatment in smash because even after three games they still haven't made zelda a fun character to play
 

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^ Could they go through all the trouble to revamp most characters to give them a more dynamic and fun playstyle? I mean Zelda's one thing because sh has an unique playstyle to begin with, but I'm mostly targeting clones such as Ganondorf.
 

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^ Could they go through all the trouble to revamp most characters to give them a more dynamic and fun playstyle? I mean Zelda's one thing because sh has an unique playstyle to begin with, but I'm mostly targeting clones such as Ganondorf.
They don't need to revamp her completely but just make make her better. Zelda's shtick was that she's got some strong killing moves but other than that she's awful so you use Sheik first and finish off with Zelda. But Sheik getting a different character slot removes the entire point as Phantom Slash doesn't make up for Zelda's many weaknesses. Hell, Rivals of Aether has a character using a moveset similar to Zelda iirc and because that game's more balanced, that character's more fun. Zelda in Smash is slow, needs to be very precise if you want to do decent damage and isn't all too heavy, meaning either you have to be very good with her or you lose, regardless of the situation. The devs just need to remember how to balance a character
 

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Ganondork needs a bigger balance boost.

Sure he received some significant ones, but they aren't enough if he's still bottom tier since Brawl.
 

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They don't need to revamp her completely but just make make her better. Zelda's shtick was that she's got some strong killing moves but other than that she's awful so you use Sheik first and finish off with Zelda. But Sheik getting a different character slot removes the entire point as Phantom Slash doesn't make up for Zelda's many weaknesses. Hell, Rivals of Aether has a character using a moveset similar to Zelda iirc and because that game's more balanced, that character's more fun. Zelda in Smash is slow, needs to be very precise if you want to do decent damage and isn't all too heavy, meaning either you have to be very good with her or you lose, regardless of the situation. The devs just need to remember how to balance a character
Indeed, she's balanced as if she's still attached to Sheik. They need to let her fully embrace her playstyle as a magic user and give her more disjoints along with changing up Fair or Bair. They're on the right track they just gotta let her shine.
Ganondork needs a bigger balance boost.

Sure he received some significant ones, but they aren't enough if he's still bottom tier since Brawl.
Is there anything that can be done with Ganny's semi-clone moveset that can be switched up but stays true to the Cap-Falcon-but-slower concept they seem adamant on sticking to (besides actual move changes that we discussed ages ago in this thread)? It feels like they've dug him into a hole here with that moveset.
 
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Zerp

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Is there anything that can be done with Ganny's semi-clone moveset that can be switched up but stays true to the Cap-Falcon-but-slower concept they seem adamant on sticking to? It feels like they've dug him into a hole here with that moveset.
Aside from stat tweaks (which I feel can work, buff his mobility please) they could allow him to float like in Project M and/or alternatively they could give him a projectile over one of his moves and still keep the rest of his moveset as a heavier falcon. Those things alone probably wouldn't make him much better but I think they'd help.
 

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I would not mind if Zelda, Link, and Ganondorf were designed from the bottom up. Toon Link could keep his moveset and Link could be based on Breath of the Wild.
 

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I would not mind if Zelda, Link, and Ganondorf were designed from the bottom up. Toon Link could keep his moveset and Link could be based on Breath of the Wild.
I want to see Ganondorf take his Wind Waker look. It exceeds at the right amount of colorfulness and would basically sum up a new move set.
 

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What about improving Smash in other areas?

Forget about characters, let's fix everything else about it. Due to putting so much focus on adding new characters, this has caused the series to fail to deliver in many other aspects.




1. More robust new game modes

Smash 4 still feels like it didn't do much about this. We still have mostly the same stuff as previous games.

Smash Run had a good idea going, but half of it still felt rather lacking. At least Air Ride's City Trial gave you a Free Run mode and the ability to choose any Stadium match (or in Smash Run's case, final battle) on your own time. Or find a way to work its enemies into the standard multiplayer mode, a fourth type of match where they appear all over the stage and players have to defeat the most to win.

Even Wii U's Special Orders was immediately forgettable, if that random throwaway board game wasn't bad enough (no wonder Smash Tour was announced so late).


2. More diversity in stages

Enough with the "Level 1s" already. When you see this much green in the majority of the Smash stages, you know there's a problem. Take different terrain types into account. More stages should do what Mushroom Kingdom U did, and that was more than just Acorn Plains. Some of the other stages are taking a "whole game/series" approach. Keep that up, too.


3. A single player mode that's actually worth it

I acknowledge that Smash is predominantly a multiplayer series, but this shouldn't stop them from trying to make a better, more interesting 1P mode. Just take all the good ideas from Melee's Adventure, SSE, and Smash Run and put them together.


4. More Stadium mini-games

Heck, Multi-Man and HRC have barely even changed since Melee. And Target Test has gotten progressively worse in every game since.
 
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