Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I do not oppose to Opossum's post.

You have no idea how long I wanted to say that.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I probably mentioned this before, but it would be interesting to have a boss where whenever it's down to 1 HP, it will create a barrier that can only be penetrated by Final Smashes. During that phase, you'd basically have to wait for a Smash Ball to spawn, break it, and then make sure that the boss is caught in the Final Smash's crossfire.

As for the transformation Final Smashes, such as Giga Bowser and Wario-Man, attacking the boss's barrier with any attack will damage it.

Once the barrier breaks, you just have to damage the boss one more time to defeat it, but be quick, or else the barrier will regenerate.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

As well, make their fights more varied. Meta Ridley had a time limit and Petey had the cage gimmick, but those were still barely different from the damage sponge status quo. Give them more unique defeat objectives.

One of the reasons Meta Ridley was one of the best fights in the game was because he used his environment to create unique experiences.

You fight him on the Falcon Flyer and Meta Ridley...

• Will fly behind it for protection.
• Will smack the Flyer directly to cause it to bounce around to disorient the player.
• Will drag the Flyer below the blast zone in one of the most creative attacks in the series.

Master Core was a cool boss because he used a lot of those elements.

I'd like more bosses like that.

 

[Megadoomer]

One of the reasons Meta Ridley was one of the best fights in the game was because he used his environment to create unique experiences.

You fight him on the Falcon Flyer and Meta Ridley...

• Will fly behind it for protection.
• Will smack the Flyer directly to cause it to bounce around to disorient the player.
• Will drag the Flyer below the blast zone in one of the most creative attacks in the series.

However, those same qualities (and the time limit) also made him the worst boss in terms of unlocking his trophy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

However, those same qualities (and the time limit) also made him the worst boss in terms of unlocking his trophy.

Yeah, but I don't think that feature will ever come back

 

[Basty]

Here's some fuel for discussion, if say a new smash was revealed at E3 and they revealed 3 newcomers like with Smash 4, who would they be?

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

There was a Third Party, a First Party, and a WTF character at the E3 where 4 was announced. Following that:

First Party: Inkling

Third Party: Simon Belmont (OR Phoenix Wright, OR Bomberman)

WTF: Something REALLY REALLY obscure. Sherrif, maybe? Hell, Sakurai could make the ''characters'' from PONG work.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

WTF: Something REALLY REALLY obscure. Sherrif, maybe? Hell, Sakurai could make the ''characters'' from PONG work.

Now hold on.

Wii Fit Trainer wasn't obscure.

We just never thought about her.

 

[FunAtParties]

Now hold on.

Wii Fit Trainer wasn't obscure.

We just never thought about her.

They didn't say WFT was obscure, they just said it was the wtf character, and that the next one should be really obscure.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They didn't say WFT was obscure, they just said it was the wtf character, and that the next one should be really obscure.

I will continue that point that while Sakurai knew Wii Fit Trainer was unexpected, she still doesn't fit with the traditional unexpected pick.

According to his interviews, its actually the retro trio.


Any successor to them would not be revealed in game's original reveal.

 

[Luminario]

There was a Third Party, a First Party, and a WTF character at the E3 where 4 was announced.

I'd say it's more a heavily requested character, a hype newcomer, left-field pick character that few thought of.
Going by that system: K. Rool/Dixie, Inklings, Isabelle.

 

[Deleted member]

Any successor to them would not be revealed in reveal.

Weh?

I'd say it's more a heavily requested character, a hype newcomer, left-field pick character that few thought of.
Going by that system: K. Rool/Dixie, Inklings, Isabelle.

Very few even thought of Wii Fit Trainer prior to her reveal.
People are expecting Isabelle if there's going to be a 2nd Animal Crossing character.

Not really comparable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Weh?

Fixed it.

I'm tired.

Sue me.

 

[Deleted member]

Fixed it.

I'm tired.

Sue me.

-hands a subpoena-

 

[FunAtParties]

I will continue that point that while Sakurai knew Wii Fit Trainer was unexpected, she still doesn't fit with the traditional unexpected pick.

According to his interviews, its actually the retro trio.


Any successor to them would not be revealed in game's original reveal.

She actually kind of does. (I learned this theory from Azure Warrior I mean Yomi's Biggest fan)

All three of those characters are from games that use a specific type of hardware; Game and Watch, ROB, and the NES Zapper, respectively. Wii Fit Trainer comes from the Wii Fit series, which uses that Wii balancing board thing.

If anyone wants to make an educated guess as to what the next wtf pick is going to be, see if it couples with some hardware or peripherals. It may give it a bit of an advantage.

So with that, who's left on that front?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

theory

The problem with the argument.

It's just a theory.

I'd rather go with what the big guy (not Ridley) himself says.

 

[FunAtParties]

The problem with the argument.

It's just a theory.

I'd rather go with what the big guy (not Ridley) himself says.

You do you.

 

[Deleted member]

The problem with the argument.

It's just a theory.

I'd rather go with what the big guy (not Ridley) himself says.

This.

Duck Hunt was literally stated to be the "surprise character" in Smash 4's project proposal.

And the point of the surprise character is to be a surprise.
A fighter you don't see coming until you unlock them (barring leaks because leaks can't be helped :V).

 

[FunAtParties]

This.

Duck Hunt was literally stated to be the "surprise character" in Smash 4's project proposal.

And the point of the surprise character is to be a surprise.
A fighter you don't see coming until you unlock them (barring leaks because leaks can't be helped :V).

I don't get how what I said stops all this from being a surprise to the vast majority of fans.

If this is how he chooses wtf characters, it's not like it was common knowledge at the time, or that the pattern was obvious anyway.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't get how what I said stops all this from being a surprise to the vast majority of fans.

If this is how he chooses wtf characters, it's not like it was common knowledge at the time, or that the pattern was obvious anyway.

I guess we're saying that surprise characters in Sakurai's eyes need to be retro.

Wii Fit Trainer would be more akin to Pokemon Trainer. Choices that were staring you in the face the whole time but were just so unorthodox we didn't count them.

Not getting on your case bud. Just clarifying a point.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I probably mentioned this before, but it would be interesting to have a boss where whenever it's down to 1 HP, it will create a barrier that can only be penetrated by Final Smashes. During that phase, you'd basically have to wait for a Smash Ball to spawn, break it, and then make sure that the boss is caught in the Final Smash's crossfire.

As for the transformation Final Smashes, such as Giga Bowser and Wario-Man, attacking the boss's barrier with any attack will damage it.

Once the barrier breaks, you just have to damage the boss one more time to defeat it, but be quick, or else the barrier will regenerate.

**** no. Imagine, you beat the boss, but you need to wait for a smash ball. It doesn't appear for a while and you literally can do nothing to stop the boss from attacking you. Or it spawns and you focus on it. The boss just knocked you out because you were too busy trying to get the Smash Ball and got hit
Not to mention why would you need to attack it a final time after that? You just did a Final Smash, known in Japan as 'The final trump card', it's anti-climactic to just do that and finish it off with a generic hit. This idea you have is awful as it only serves to pad out the fight for no good reason

 

[FunAtParties]

I guess we're saying that surprise characters in Sakurai's eyes need to be retro.

Wii Fit Trainer would be more akin to Pokemon Trainer. Choices that were staring you in the face the whole time but were just so unorthodox we didn't count them.

Not getting our your case bud. Just clarifying a point.

Alright I see your point. I still say she's pretty much the definition of a WTF kind of character, but it's true that she may have been chosen without that in mind.

 

[Deleted member]

A thought I have since the ARMS DIrect, I believe it would not be too to see both Spring Man and Ribbon Girl as ARMS reps next Smash.

Yes, if we have to only pick one it would obviously go to Spring Man.
However, with such a diverse cast it would also be kind of a waste to have only one ARMS character in Smash.

So why not putting a new and add Ribbon Girl as well.
They both share the same morphology, thus it would cost less ressources than another character who have a completely different one, but they can still have some key differences to distinguish them, much like and .

Not to mention Nintendo recently stated they intend to make ARMS a recurrent franchise, and I honestly don't see the first ARMS game being a failure sales-wise.

 

[FunAtParties]

A thought I have since the ARMS DIrect, I believe it would not be too to see both Spring Man and Ribbon Girl as ARMS reps next Smash.

Yes, if we have to only pick one it would obviously go to Spring Man.
However, with such a diverse cast it would also be kind of a waste to have only one ARMS character in Smash.

So why not putting a new and add Ribbon Girl as well.
They both share the same morphology, thus it would cost less ressources than another character who have a completely different one, but they can still have some key differences to distinguish them, much like and .

Not to mention Nintendo recently stated they intend to make ARMS a recurrent franchise, and I honestly don't see the first ARMS game being a failure sales-wise.

I'd be fine with just one.

It's not that I wouldn't like to see two, but the long reach gimmick doesn't really need to be done more than once in Smash, and having 2 characters very close in abilities to each other (Spring Man/Ribbon Girl) would just feel repetitive and unnecessary imo like most clones.

I'm more bummed out that if we do get an ARMS rep, it will almost certainly be one of those 2 (and even worse most likely Spring Man ). Characters like Minmin, Helix, Kid Cobra, etc... don't have a chance and that kind of sucks lol.

 

[Luminario]

Very few even thought of Wii Fit Trainer prior to her reveal.
People are expecting Isabelle if there's going to be a 2nd Animal Crossing character.

Not really comparable.

Well, I dunno then, Nikki? A Style Savvy rep? After WFT people are expecting the unexpected.

 

[FunAtParties]

Well, I dunno then, Nikki? A Style Savvy rep? After WFT people are expecting the unexpected.

You gotta go deeper, like the side character of an obscure game. That'll get us.

Seriously though, there's tons of characters out there that'd **** with people. Hakkun, Muddy Mole, Sukapon, Mini Kangaroo, Doshin, the list goes on.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They didn't say WFT was obscure, they just said it was the wtf character, and that the next one should be really obscure.

And the next one was Rosalina.

Obscure indeed.

 

[FunAtParties]

And the next one was Rosalina.

Obscure indeed.

I think you're missing the point of my comment. I was defending the guy the other guy was responding to, not reciting by memory the history of Smash 4 reveals.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think you're missing the point of my comment. I was defending the guy the other guy was responding to, not reciting by memory the history of Smash 4 reveals.

Fair enough.

 

[Bowserlick]

She actually kind of does. (I learned this theory from Azure Warrior I mean Yomi's Biggest fan)

All three of those characters are from games that use a specific type of hardware; Game and Watch, ROB, and the NES Zapper, respectively. Wii Fit Trainer comes from the Wii Fit series, which uses that Wii balancing board thing.

If anyone wants to make an educated guess as to what the next wtf pick is going to be, see if it couples with some hardware or peripherals. It may give it a bit of an advantage.

So with that, who's left on that front?

Mach Rider was a 1972 Nintendo toy car before it was a Nintendo video game.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

You gotta go deeper, like the side character of an obscure game. That'll get us.

Seriously though, there's tons of characters out there that'd **** with people. Hakkun, Muddy Mole, Sukapon, Mini Kangaroo, Doshin, the list goes on.

Not sure i'd put Sukapon up there, seems like every third roster I see has him.

Also, I fully expect Muddy Mole to pop up considering he's a retro Gameboy character that Miyamoto was involved with, but that's just me. I could see why other people wouldn't expect it.

If it reps Hardware again, i'd say Tin Star a Super Scope character from the SNES era that I don't see predicted or expected at all.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

How do people feel about western cartoon-styled game characters being in Smash I know the Smash fanbase has a lot of anime fans, so I'm just wondering if having characters that cater to western cartoon art styles sort of creates a polarizing effect.

The three characters I use are cartoony, so I definitely have no problem with them. If anything, the more cartoonier characters tend to be more aesthetically diverse than the more realistically proportionate characters. (The MvC fanbase, if anything, seems to have a bigger issue with wacky-looking characters given the hate MODOK and Rocket Raccoon got in MvC3 and UMvC3 respectively)

 

[Opossum]

Not sure i'd put Sukapon up there, seems like every third roster I see has him.

Also, I fully expect Muddy Mole to pop up considering he's a retro Gameboy character that Miyamoto was involved with, but that's just me. I could see why other people wouldn't expect it.

If it reps Hardware again, i'd say Tin Star a Super Scope character from the SNES era that I don't see predicted or expected at all.

I've had that line of reasoning for Muddy appearing since the pre-Brawl days. In Smash he only has a Chronicle mention in Brawl.

It sucks too, because Muddy Mole would be an incredible character in Smash.

 

[Curious Villager]

We don't really see that much love for the GameBoy side of games and series in Smash. At least, not anywhere near to the side of the NES. But then again, neither does most other generation's that aren't relevant. The only notable ones I can think of at the moment is Pokemon (for obvious reasons), Sable Prince as an assist trophy and the Kirby stage in Smash 3DS. Though it could be that I forgot some but I can't help but but feel that it's kind of gone unexplored for the most part.

I'd like to see Smash expand a little further when it comes to retro gaming instead of mostly sticking to the NES and Arcade era of gaming...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

We don't really see that much love for the GameBoy side of games and series in Smash. At least, not anywhere near to the side of the NES. But then again, neither does most other generation's that aren't relevant. The only notable ones I can think of at the moment is Pokemon (for obvious reasons), Sable Prince as an assist trophy and the Kirby stage in Smash 3DS. Though it could be that I forgot some but I can't help but but feel that it's kind of gone unexplored for the most part.

I'd like to see Smash expand a little further when it comes to retro gaming instead of mostly sticking to the NES and Arcade era of gaming...

And finally include Isaac as a playable character!.....right?

 

[Deleted member]

I guess we're saying that surprise characters in Sakurai's eyes need to be retro.

That's not necessarily my point, though. :V
My point is just that Wii Fit Trainer doesn't qualify because she was revealed almost instantly after the game had coverage.

Though it it's true that all of the "surprise characters" so far have been "retro". Though I personally feel there's more to it than that. It's not just that they're retro, it's that they have historical significance.

Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B. are self-explanatory, and Sakurai had this to say about Duck Hunt.

Please try to have a look at the sales-numbers. It might be the most-sold shooting-game in the world. It might be because it came bundled with the NES outside of Japan, if you look at worldwide numbers you come up with a huge number. I thought to create a character based on that would be appropriate, so we included that character from the very beginning of the project.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

And finally include Isaac as a playable character!.....right?

Well, he IS a GBA character, but we're talking about retro black and white GB here.

I think Muddy Mole is the best choice, followed by Alice from Balloon Kid, then Sable Prince, maybe an overhauled Wario with Wario Land moves..

Though I agree that Issac needs to be in like now.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I dunno then, Nikki? A Style Savvy rep? After WFT people are expecting the unexpected.

That's precisely the problem.

You can't predict the "unpredictable". Otherwise they wouldn't be unpredictable, you know?
Wii Fit Trainer was that rare case, really. Wii Fit was a high grossing series for Nintendo, yet hardly anyone considered the idea of it getting a character.
It's not that people didn't think it was going to happen, it's that only very few even humored the idea to where it was completely out of the blue.

 

[Staarih]

We don't really see that much love for the GameBoy side of games and series in Smash.

True, and now that I think of it, that actually goes for other handhelds and their game franchises too. I mean, the likes of Pokémon and Kirby (and Game & Watch I guess) are the only born-on-handheld game series' represented with playable characters in Smash - and even they've ventured to home consoles as well (and vice versa). So more representation in that area would be nice. Are there any noteworthy new game series/IP's within GB, GBA, DS and/or 3DS which could be represented?

Golden Sun for sure, Rhythm Heaven maybe too, those for GBA. DS leaves me blank, 3DS may have a shot with Ever Oasis but I'm not sure how popular it'll be to become a franchise.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm sure Ever Oasis is going to be another Codename STEAM in terms of popularity.