Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MMXZero]

Just dropping a comment to say that Krystal technically exists in the SFZ timeline due to the promotional anime Nintendo/Miyamoto did with Production IG.

I could see a reveal trailer for her being similar to the Palutena trailer produced by Shaft.

 

[Deleted member]

Just dropping a comment to say that Krystal technically exists in the SFZ timeline due to the promotional anime Nintendo/Miyamoto did with Production IG.

We know Sauria exists, but we won't know about Krystal until she actually shows up or is alluded to directly in some form.

But key things to note:

-The team already knows of Sauria's existence, which they didn't prior to Adventures in the previous continuity.
-The name Sauria exists, which wasn't until after the events of Adventures. (It was just the "Dinosaur Planet" before Assault)
-Despite the above, Krystal is not part of the team nor does the team give any reference to her whatsoever.

It could go either way with her.

 

[MMXZero]

We know Sauria exists, but we won't know about Krystal until she actually shows up or is alluded to directly in some form.

But key things to note:

-The team already knows of Sauria's existence, which they didn't prior to Adventures in the previous continuity.
-The name Sauria exists, which wasn't until after the events of Adventures. (It was just the "Dinosaur Planet" before Assault)
-Despite the above, Krystal is not part of the team nor does the team give any reference to her whatsoever.

It could go either way with her.

I would say the existence of Sauria does allude to Krystal's existence since it implies Tricky and other characters from that planet exist as well.

And as far as your other points go that can be said about any reboot. We could be here all day listing all of the reasons why we think Krystal could or could not appear in the next Star Fox game. Interestingly enough the most hate she ever received was from Star Fox 64 fanboys who claimed her addtion to the series made it bad and was leading to poor sales of the games she was in. After SFZ bombed I think her chances of coming back are very high.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Perhaps it was deliberate, or it could have been a mistake, we don't really have a way of knowing. That is pretty odd though.

Yeah, back in Melee, the Viruses trophy was actually sorted properly whenever you organize the trophies by game. Why that very trophy was treated as "Other" in Smash Wii U was rather baffling, since Dr. Mario's trophies were categorized under "Super Mario Bros.".

Back to the fanfare, sure it can be said the rock renditions fit their personality, but I'd argue the normal themes fit just as well. Plus it's still really inconsistent. Why does Rosalina have unique fanfare, while Bowser and Bowser Jr. only get rock versions of the regular Mario fanfare?

Why doesn't Luigi have fanfare based off of Luigi's Mansion then? Rosalina was featured in Galaxy but Luigi was the actual star of both LM games (Plus being around for far, far longer in multiple prominent roles across several games.)? Why did she get priority?

Why don't the Pokemon and Fire Emblem characters each have fanfare relating to their particular games?

And while I'm at it, I was actually totally off on Dr. Mario. You're question still stands. Why didn't he get a unique theme when another last minute clone like Dark Pit did?

And as you pointed out why doesn't Ganondorf have fanfare more fitting to him?

My big issue with it is, as I said, how inconsistent it is. I like the idea of giving each character something unique, but I just prefer the shared victory fanfares. I think the series symbol and victory fanfare should be consistent so as
to properly show who is representing what series. Perhaps that seems a bit silly, and unnecessary especially for longtime Nintendo fans who usually know who everyone is, but it's just something that I'm personally fond of.

I guess I just like the idea of characters from the same series having an actual common trait showing where they hail from, and the way Sakurai handled it with series icons and fanfare works really well imo.

All that I know is that typically, every fighter from the same series uses the exact same victory theme, with a few of them getting alternate remixes, which was the case with Meta Knight, Bowser, and Bowser Jr.. Rosalina and Dark Pit were the only odd ones of the bunch, as their victory themes did not match what their series symbols normally use.

Now, it would've been less of an issue if Rosalina had a Grand Star symbol, while Dark Pit had a mirrored version of the Kid Icarus series symbol. However, Rosalina was only a supporting character in the two Super Mario Galaxy titles, while Dark Pit's role in Kid Icarus Uprising was just playing the anti-hero role (much like how Shadow was the anti-hero when he made his debut in Sonic Adventure 2).

 

[Deleted member]

I would say the existence of Sauria does allude to Krystal's existence since it implies Tricky and other characters from that planet exist as well.

Except Krystal isn't from Sauria. She's from Cerinia.

 

[Kirbeh]

I would say the existence of Sauria does allude to Krystal's existence since it implies Tricky and other characters from that planet exist as well.

And as far as your other points go that can be said about any reboot. We could be here all day listing all of the reasons why we think Krystal could or could not appear in the next Star Fox game. Interestingly enough the most hate she ever received was from Star Fox 64 fanboys who claimed her addtion to the series made it bad and was leading to poor sales of the games she was in. After SFZ bombed I think her chances of coming back are very high.

EDIT: I misread a bit of your post and have edited mine accordingly now that I went back and reread yours. My bad.

The most recent Star Fox bombed. = Krystal now has a high chance of returning.

I don't think that's how that works.

Also, the existence of Sauria doesn't imply the existence of Krystal or Tricky because we don't see any other information regarding the planet. Since Zero is a reboot there's no guarantee they'd return even if Sauria does. It is a possibility that the return of Sauria may hint that elements from Adventures such as the return of Krystal could potentially happen but there's no concrete info. And I don't at all get the logic behind saying she has a very high chance because the most recent game in the series is performed poorly.

As you said, we can go back and forth about whether she may or may not return, but that's exactly my point as well. Zero's failure doesn't necessarily mean they'll return to where they left off with Command in the previous timeline or suddenly decide to add her in the new one.

That aside, I can agree that the hate for Krystal was unwarranted, but it's pretty much a guilt by association thing. Adventures was haphazardly turned into a Star Fox game, despite being nothing like a Star fox, so of course people awaiting the next game were either confused or upset (or both.) They didn't like Adventures, and by extension, didn't like Krystal.

I can understand a lot of the complaints regarding Command though. Story and the portrayal of most of the cast was pretty off, with Krystal getting hit especially hard by the poor direction.

Adventures was received poorly because people many didn't see it as a Star Fox game, not because of Krystal. Command was just kind of bad in certain aspects.

And of course many just don't like Krystal as a character which is understandable.

All that I know is that typically, every fighter from the same series uses the exact same victory theme, with a few of them getting alternate remixes, which was the case with Meta Knight, Bowser, and Bowser Jr.. Rosalina and Dark Pit were the only odd ones of the bunch, as their victory themes did not match what their series symbols normally use.

Now, it would've been less of an issue if Rosalina had a Grand Star symbol, while Dark Pit had a mirrored version of the Kid Icarus series symbol. However, Rosalina was only a supporting character in the two Super Mario Galaxy titles, while Dark Pit's role in Kid Icarus Uprising was just playing the anti-hero role (much like how Shadow was the anti-hero when he made his debut in Sonic Adventure 2).

I think that would've been more of an issue actually. My point wasn't inconsistency among whether they had a unique symbol to match a unique fanfare jingle (that seems like even more of an arbitrary change tbh). I was arguing in favor of keeping the fanfare consistent among all characters of the same series. Giving some characters unique emblems would make things even more inconsistent imo.

The series emblem and fanfare are meant to be representative of the series that a character hails from, which is why I'm more in favor of keeping both those things consistent. If each character had music that followed the fanfare to play over the results screen in a similar fashion to Cloud, then that I'd be in favor of.

And I'm well aware that Cloud's fanfare, the FFVII victory theme, is a single piece of music, but my point is that the it retains the first few notes used throughout fanfare in the entirety of the Final Fantasy series. My suggestion is to do something similar in Smash by retaining the series fanfare, which would then trail off into a track unique to each character.

This keeps the series traits consistent while giving each character something of their own as many have wanted.

 

[Deleted member]

And of course many just don't like Krystal as a character which is understandable.

That's the category I'm in.
I don't "blame" her for anything; I just don't like her.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

it'd be neat but, like, the majority of people playing Smash aren't familiar with Metroid characters other than Samus

plus there's no real reason to alter a character after twenty years when having two iterations of the same character hasn't impacted them in a mechanical sense

It was a flippant remark. I don't want that at all.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I wish they'd just bring Miyu and Fay back from Star Fox 2.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Krystal is like K Rool.

Both made by Rare with the intention to debut in non Nintendo games only to become fan favorites of the Nintendo series they were inevitably put in, and to garner a lot of requests for Super Smash Bros. Unfortunately both characters have been missing in action for many years now, not even getting so much as a reference in their series lastest games. However the demand for their return is still out there.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So Krystal is likely again? I like that! Honestly I always wanted her for Smash cause Adventures was great, and it was the last game Rare ever made for Nintendo outside of ports of DKC and DKR. So am glad she's likely again, and I hope one day she will Ben in Smash one day

 

[PsychoJosh]

I'm indifferent to Krystal being in Smash, but of course, the argument could be made that Nintendo doesn't want her in the game simply because they don't feel she accurately represents the Star Fox series.

To be specific, if fans keep asking for her with a staff and magic based moveset like her debut in Adventures, I can see why Nintendo wouldn't want to put her in the game. She isn't "sci-fi" enough. Star Fox is supposed to be all about futuristic space war with lasers and space battlecruisers and robots and stuff. I can see how Nintendo wouldn't want that to get muddied up with a character who is clearly more based in fantasy than sci-fi. People who aren't familiar with the Star Fox games might get the wrong idea from her.

 

[skywak3r]

If there are less than 7 characters in Smash for Switch than what's the point?

 

[Zerp]

If there are less than 7 characters in Smash for Switch than what's the point?

Balance changes, new stages (preferably legal), new game modes and other things like that.

 

[PsychoJosh]

The mere fact that it's taking so long for them to announce something (the announcement will probably be at E3) probably means that something big is in the works, like potentially a whole new game (but with content from this one).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm indifferent to Krystal being in Smash, but of course, the argument could be made that Nintendo doesn't want her in the game simply because they don't feel she accurately represents the Star Fox series.

To be specific, if fans keep asking for her with a staff and magic based moveset like her debut in Adventures, I can see why Nintendo wouldn't want to put her in the game. She isn't "sci-fi" enough. Star Fox is supposed to be all about futuristic space war with lasers and space battlecruisers and robots and stuff. I can see how Nintendo wouldn't want that to get muddied up with a character who is clearly more based in fantasy than sci-fi. People who aren't familiar with the Star Fox games might get the wrong idea from her.

The funny thing about Star Fox Adventures was that it took a page from The Legend of Zelda with the ground battles. And yet, the final battle took place in outer space with the Arwing. General Scales could've at least been the semi-final boss of the game.

 

[Smokey21]

Yeah that always bugged me how we never got to fight scales in that game. It just felt like they cut the game short when it came down to getting the last Krazoa spirit. I'm sure it was disappointing for many peoole.

 

[FunAtParties]

Yeah but Solid Snake?

It seemed like a believable Nintendo commercial up until the Villager guy at the window, though that was pretty funny.
Everything else seems pretty good, with my only other criticism being "What the h..." Not because I take issue with it myself, but because it's Nintendo were talking about. It'd probably just be a quick "What the...?!" I don't see them asking for a cut off at "h", when it could easily be assumed to be hell. Gotta stay squeaky clean right?

I'm mean, a lot of people like Snake. Could sell people on it.

I'm surprised you're hesitant on the last part when the previous part is so much worse if you get the joke.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Krystal is like K Rool.

Both made by Rare with the intention to debut in non Nintendo games only to become fan favorites of the Nintendo series they were inevitably put in, and to garner a lot of requests for Super Smash Bros. Unfortunately both characters have been missing in action for many years now, not even getting so much as a reference in their series lastest games. However the demand for their return is still out there.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I don't know if that's a good comparison
Krystal's a side character who appeared in a few games with only a single major role iirc and K.Rool was the main villain

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Should Krystal make her playable debut in Smash, let's hope she doesn't get a Landmaster as a Final Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Should Krystal make her playable debut in Smash, let's hope she doesn't get a Landmaster as a Final Smash.

Actually I kinda want this solely for the ****storm

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, it only bothers me that Wolf has one. Krystal at least would logically pilot one if possible. At least the justification makes sense. Why can't they modify a Landmaster anyway? It's not like they're unable to be found/salvaged. Ships/vehicles do get totaled.

I still want Wolf to have a different FS, same with Falco, mainly for variety's sake. Can also apply to any other identical ones.

 

[UserKev]

I'm amazed a debate for crystal went on this long in a thread that's general character speculation.

In the next installment, just give me Mimikyu and I'm sold.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm mean, a lot of people like Snake. Could sell people on it.

I'm surprised you're hesitant on the last part when the previous part is so much worse if you get the joke.

I'm hesitant on both, much more so on the bit with the Villager guy, I still found the imagery I got from it funny though. I will say that if it's a particular reference then I don't get it. My assumption was that it was a general stalker/perhaps serial killer joke. It's definitely a lot worse either way.

And after typing the above, I stopped and checked your original post again. I missed it the first time but now I get that you we're referring to the 'actors'. DK's Expand joke and Kirby's Inhale...Why would you do this?

So now my stance has changed to the only acceptable part being the gym scene and a slightly edited security scene.

I've got nothing against Snake btw, I was referencing a joke from the YT channel, Arlo.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Did something recently happen to make Krystal more likely to be in Smash 5, or is this just speculation?

To me, I still think Wolf would be more likely to return than Krystal being a newcomer.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Did something recently happen to make Krystal more likely to be in Smash 5, or is this just speculation?

Krystal hasn't been heavily discussed in a long time so people decided to talk about her for a change.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Super Ground Quake, or whatever it's called, could be her Final Smash.

 

[Luminario]

To me, I still think Wolf would be more likely to return than Krystal being a newcomer.

Yeah, she's severely unlikely to get in over Wolf. It's likely to be either Wolf and Krystal or just Wolf seeing as he's a dearly missed veteran.

Super Ground Quake, or whatever it's called, could be her Final Smash.

That could work, sorta like a super powered POW Block. It's probably more likely to be a Cloudrunner ZSS styled one or an Assault weaponry one though.

 

[Delzethin]

Did something recently happen to make Krystal more likely to be in Smash 5, or is this just speculation?

To me, I still think Wolf would be more likely to return than Krystal being a newcomer.

Yeah, she's severely unlikely to get in over Wolf. It's likely to be either Wolf and Krystal or just Wolf seeing as he's a dearly missed veteran.

To be honest, I don't think they're competing with each other. Remember, it's not as if the devs put a hard limit on how many characters a given franchise can have. And a character can still have a shot despite any concerns about oversaturation if they have unique enough abilities to be worth the risk. If you ask me, combining both magic and technology into one moveset falls under that just as much as being a half-dragon shapeshifter does.

Wolf could return due to Star Fox being more or less relevant again, while Krystal's odds lie in being a Smash Ballot pick, and potentially one of the more likely ones due to her high moveset potential and seemingly being considered for Brawl, meaning the developers would be aware of her and what she can do. Each of their paths to inclusion are separate and do not directly affect the other.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So what should Krystal's unique gameplay mechanic be?

 

[Luminario]

To be honest, I don't think they're competing with each other. Remember, it's not as if the devs put a hard limit on how many characters a given franchise can have. And a character can still have a shot despite any concerns about oversaturation if they have unique enough abilities to be worth the risk. If you ask me, combining both magic and technology into one moveset falls under that just as much as being a half-dragon shapeshifter does.

Wolf could return due to Star Fox being more or less relevant again, while Krystal's odds lie in being a Smash Ballot pick, and potentially one of the more likely ones due to her high moveset potential and seemingly being considered for Brawl, meaning the developers would be aware of her and what she can do. Each of their paths to inclusion are separate and do not directly affect the other.

Oh I didn't want to make it look like they're competing for a spot at all, just that people might not like it if Krystal is a newcomer but Wolf didn't return.

So what should Krystal's unique gameplay mechanic be?

Probably the magic gauge if she has her staff. All her specials use up a certain amount of the gauge, which recharges over time when not in use. So her specials would be versatile and powerful but you have to be careful with using them otherwise you'll be caught off the stage with no gauge left so no recovery.

 

[Gagnetar]

Yeah, she's severely unlikely to get in over Wolf. It's likely to be either Wolf and Krystal or just Wolf seeing as he's a dearly missed veteran.

That could work, sorta like a super powered POW Block. It's probably more likely to be a Cloudrunner ZSS styled one or an Assault weaponry one though.

The Ground Quake and it's upgrades are actually stun moves, they're more of concussive waves than a powerful knockback wave.
I'd envision something that can be charged as her Down Special and releases a burst that deals moderate damage but deals a very strong freeze frame hit with short end lag for krystal so that she can follow-up.

I didn't even think about including the gauge gimmick, the specials would have to have some compartively stronger abilities in order to be gimpable like that, but it's an interesting idea.

 

[Luminario]

The Ground Quake and it's upgrades are actually stun moves, they're more of concussive waves than a powerful knockback wave.
I'd envision something that can be charged as her Down Special and releases a burst that deals moderate damage but deals a very strong freeze frame hit with short end lag for krystal so that she can follow-up.

I didn't even think about including the gauge gimmick, the specials would have to have some compartively stronger abilities in order to be gimpable like that, but it's an interesting idea.

I've always thought Ground Quake would be implemented as a shield breaker move but a paralyzer effect also works well.
To balance out the magic gauge I thought that the Fire Blaster could be fully aimed in a 180 degree angle overhead and handled similarly to Pit's arrow (you hold B to aim then let it go to fire), Ice Blaster is a mix between IC's Blizzard and Bowser's Fire Breath allowing you to aim the stream of ice, Rocket Boost just shoots you up pretty far, and Ground Quake is strong shield breaker/paralyzer that can be charged.

 

[Gagnetar]

I've always thought Ground Quake would be implemented as a shield breaker move but a paralyzer effect also works well.
To balance out the magic gauge I thought that the Fire Blaster could be fully aimed in a 180 degree angle overhead and handled similarly to Pit's arrow (you hold B to aim then let it go to fire), Ice Blaster is a mix between IC's Blizzard and Bowser's Fire Breath allowing you to aim the stream of ice, Rocket Boost just shoots you up pretty far, and Ground Quake is strong shield breaker/paralyzer that can be charged.

The aiming is a nice nod to the curious anchored aiming mode the game had but I don't feel it'd be very beneficial in a quicker paced game, With my kit I personally enjoyed having a Fire & Ice dichotomy creating a fun combo where after you freeze an opponent you can melt the ice for added damage and a launching hit, Shield breaker is an all right function but tends to be difficult to pull off, it'd be a funny way to punish an opponent with an infatuation with the R button though, Krystal just jumps up randomly and smacks the ground with the charged end of the staff and just breaks it.

 

[Luminario]

The aiming is a nice nod to the curious anchored aiming mode the game had but I don't feel it'd be very beneficial in a quicker paced game, With my kit I personally enjoyed having a Fire & Ice dichotomy creating a fun combo where after you freeze an opponent you can melt the ice for added damage and a launching hit, Shield breaker is an all right function but tends to be difficult to pull off, it'd be a funny way to punish an opponent with an infatuation with the R button though, Krystal just jumps up randomly and smacks the ground with the charged end of the staff and just breaks it.

Well tapping B simply has her shoot a fireball forwards, thought not as fast as Fox or Falco. It's more of a pestering tool from afar but with more coverage since you can aim it. A quick thawing effect like that would be a neat addition to Smash in general, as it gives characters with fire moves incentive to use those moves on frozen opponents with Krystal using it as a major damage combo. I just threw in shield breaking mechanics cause I didn't know what I wanted Ground Quake to do. I think that Ground Quake should also have the effect of spiking if you use it in the air since Krystal shoots straight downwards.

Also, a question to those here with a Switch: how well would you say the joy-cons would hold up against the gamecube controller for a new Smash game? Like, would it feel as comfortable using the joy-cons with the comfort grip as it does to use the GC controller?

 

[Gagnetar]

Well tapping B simply has her shoot a fireball forwards, thought not as fast as Fox or Falco. It's more of a pestering tool from afar but with more coverage since you can aim it. A quick thawing effect like that would be a neat addition to Smash in general, as it gives characters with fire moves incentive to use those moves on frozen opponents with Krystal using it as a major damage combo. I just threw in shield breaking mechanics cause I didn't know what I wanted Ground Quake to do. I think that Ground Quake should also have the effect of spiking if you use it in the air since Krystal shoots straight downwards.

Also, a question to those here with a Switch: how well would you say the joy-cons would hold up against the gamecube controller for a new Smash game? Like, would it feel as comfortable using the joy-cons with the comfort grip as it does to use the GC controller?

I definitely agree with the spike mechanic, though i had it cause an SD, if it hit's an opponent she stops falling, not really something to risk doing but a small nice feature to show off with now and then. Ice as is shoots opponents upwards pretty quickly so she'd need to able to quickly jump up and land the shot pretty quick, it launching upwards even more after would be pretty sweet, it could keep them stuck into a juggle or even KO them. I sincerely hope we get gamecube controllers again, even if the joy-cons are actually good the feel of a gamecube controller is just great in your hands and it's what smash players are used to. The base has two USB ports so there's atleast that possibility.

 

[SmashChu]

Just popping in. Are people still talking about Krystal? The character was always controversial but hasn't been in a game since 2007. It's been a decade. I don't think a side character is going to get in when they've been gone for a decade and the series has had two other games (one was a remake though).

On the topic of StarFox, the characters who would get in would probably be Wolf (veteran) and Slippy (since you can build a unique moveset off of StarFox Guard).

 

[Gagnetar]

Just popping in. Are people still talking about Krystal? The character was always controversial but hasn't been in a game since 2007. It's been a decade. I don't think a side character is going to get in when they've been gone for a decade and the series has had two other games (one was a remake though).

On the topic of StarFox, the characters who would get in would probably be Wolf (veteran) and Slippy (since you can build a unique moveset off of StarFox Guard).

Zero barely distinguishes itself from 64, there was little chance of anything out of 64 being in that game. most people would call it a remake, including myself. She's a distinguished member of the team at this point, especially with Command being considered non-canon by Imamura. Also with Slippy surely you gest, He does have kit potential but does anyone REALLY like him?

 

[Opossum]

Zero barely distinguishes itself from 64, there was little chance of anything out of 64 being in that game. most people would call it a remake, including myself. She's a distinguished member of the team at this point, especially with Command being considered non-canon by Imamura. Also with Slippy surely you gest, He does have kit potential but does anyone REALLY like him?

Slippy and Krystal are both controversial. Just as it may surprise you that Slippy has real fans, it may be a surprise to others that some (non-furries) love Krystal.

Something something glass houses and stones.

 

[SmashChu]

Zero barely distinguishes itself from 64, there was little chance of anything out of 64 being in that game. most people would call it a remake, including myself. She's a distinguished member of the team at this point, especially with Command being considered non-canon by Imamura. Also with Slippy surely you gest, He does have kit potential but does anyone REALLY like him?

Except for the fact that Krystal has been gone for years despite the series continuing. At least a character like K Rool, despite being gone for years, has a sizable audience. Krystal is more of a holdout.

On Slippy, I don't think he has a great shot, but I'd give it a maybe given that he can have a unique move set and he's been around for a while. Most of the hate for him has died off. Krystal's issue is she's not appearing in games.