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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Kirbeh

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The funny thing is, Waluigi only really uses a Tennis racket while playing Tennis, and yet in his Assist Trophy appearances, he uses a Tennis racket to try to clobber anyone in his way.
I mean what else would he use to play tennis? :p

I guess that's a fair point since Sakurai went out of his way to give Waluigi actions reflective of his debut. That said I'm not at all against Krystal with her staff, I'm just open to the possibility that she may not have given that it's something they sort of dropped and never used again. Waluigi at least still regularly makes appearances in Mario Tennis games.

It just feels odd that they chose to drop what is presumed to be her signature weapon. I mean, I get why given that it wouldn't lend itself well to Assault or Command but that's kind of my point. If Krystal returns, I think it's far more likely that she'll continue to use other tools/equipment and not her staff. That's why I compare it more to Jr.'s paintbrush. It's tied to her debut game but it's not really key to her character at this point. And going back to Waluigi, spin-offs are all he's got and with the limited actions that Assist Trophies have I do think it makes more sense for him to have the tennis racquet.

EDIT: I do have to make a correction though. Jr. does actually use his paintbrush again in some of the spin-offs like Mario Sports Mix and Super Sluggers.
 
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FunAtParties

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Gagnetar

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Source? because as far as I know Sakurai only commented on Krystal once
http://sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/
Well I would have bet my left testicle that I read that in an article about an interview on fighter choices where he said but I can't find it so it's no longer a valid point. Rip one of my angles. Either it fell off the face of the earth or I imagined the whole thing. A sad day indeed for me.
 

Luminario

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I mean what else would he use to play tennis? :p

I guess that's a fair point since Sakurai went out of his way to give Waluigi actions reflective of his debut. That said I'm not at all against Krystal with her staff, I'm just open to the possibility that she may not have given that it's something they sort of dropped and never used again. Waluigi at least still regularly makes appearances in Mario Tennis games.

It just feels odd that they chose to drop what is presumed to be her signature weapon. I mean, I get why given that it wouldn't lend itself well to Assault or Command but that's kind of my point. If Krystal returns, I think it's far more likely that she'll continue to use other tools/equipment and not her staff. That's why I compare it more to Jr.'s paintbrush. It's tied to her debut game but it's not really key to her character at this point. And going back to Waluigi, spin-offs are all he's got and with the limited actions that Assist Trophies have I do think it makes more sense for him to have the tennis racquet.

EDIT: I do have to make a correction though. Jr. does actually use his paintbrush again in some of the spin-offs like Mario Sports Mix and Super Sluggers.
I feel like while Jr could have used the paintbrush exclusively he does a remarkable job of being a unique fighter by being in the clown car, and while Krystal could feasibly use Assault weaponry and such she would probably end up being a Fox semi-clone just like the others, while the staff gives her a completely unique moveset all round that no other character can utilize, complete with a potential magic gauge gimmick.
 

Kirbeh

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I feel like while Jr could have used the paintbrush exclusively he does a remarkable job of being a unique fighter by being in the clown car, and while Krystal could feasibly use Assault weaponry and such she would probably end up being a Fox semi-clone just like the others, while the staff gives her a completely unique moveset all round that no other character can utilize, complete with a potential magic gauge gimmick.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree completely and would prefer she keep the staff. It's more a case of what I'd like vs what I think is likely. I want Krystal w/staff, I'm just unsure if that's the direction they'd go for.

Let's say they reintroduce her in the next game and she has a ton of other tools and gadgets and once again not her staff. Depending on what they do with her going forward and the more time that passes, I just see a more traditional "space tech" route being the more likely scenario. I haven't really got anything concrete to base it off mind you, it's just my take given her current situation.

That said, if they did reintroduce her along with lots of new, interesting weapons/equipment, then I'd take that as well so long as she's not another clone.
 
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Gagnetar

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Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree completely and would prefer she keep the staff. It's more a case of what I'd like vs what I think is likely. I want Krystal w/staff, I'm just unsure if that's the direction they'd go for.

Let's say they reintroduce her in the next game and she has a ton of other tools and gadgets and once again not her staff. Depending on what they do with her going forward and the more time that passes, I just see a more traditional "space tech" route being the more likely scenario. I haven't really got anything concrete to base it off mind you, it's just my take given her current situation.
It's hard to imagine that she'd get stuck with that, Though granted she never actually uses the staff ingame even once. I feel as though there wouldn't be a single reason to choose her if she didn't get the staff. He likes to make it accurate to the character, if you know even a bit about Krystal's history you'd know that the staff is hers and that the combat fox does would be what krystal does with the staff. So I think it's either staff Krystal or no Krystal.
 

Kirbeh

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It's hard to imagine that she'd get stuck with that, Though granted she never actually uses the staff ingame even once. I feel as though there wouldn't be a single reason to choose her if she didn't get the staff. He likes to make it accurate to the character, if you know even a bit about Krystal's history you'd know that the staff is hers and that the combat fox does would be what krystal does with the staff. So I think it's either staff Krystal or no Krystal.
That's more or less what I think as well, but given that we don't know what the future holds, I'm open to the possibly that they may make significant changes to her whenever she's finally reintroduced. And whatever new direction they take with the character is what I believe they'll use going forward in both Star Fox and Smash. At least until Miyamoto decides to reboot the series again...

For now, the staff remains the way to go, I'm just curious to see what they do in the next Star Fox and what changes they might make. Though I suppose that's an argument to make once it actually happens. I'm just speculating really.
 
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Gagnetar

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That's more or less what I think as well, but given that we don't know what the future holds, I'm open to the possibly that they may make significant changes to her whenever she's finally reintroduced. And whatever new direction they take with the character is what I believe they'll use going forward in both Star Fox and Smash. At least until Miyamoto decides to reboot the series again...

For now, the staff remains the way to go, I'm just curious to see what they do in the next Star Fox and what changes they might make. Though I suppose that's an argument to make once it actually happens. I'm just speculating really.
we're all speculating really. Though everyone on the net realistically expects her staff for her kit basis. If she was made to advert Star Fox that is the route they would take in regards to a non-staff kit. Though I think Wolf is a better route to take for that personally. Not really sure what "technical modelling knowledge" means for Krystal, but I think it's hard to believe that making her a female versus making a male is really that much of technical challenge so i'd guess it's because of how staunchly different she'd be, ergo her staff.
 

Kirbeh

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we're all speculating really. Though everyone on the net realistically expects her staff for her kit basis. If she was made to advert Star Fox that is the route they would take in regards to a non-staff kit. Though I think Wolf is a better route to take for that personally. Not really sure what "technical modelling knowledge" means for Krystal, but I think it's hard to believe that making her a female versus making a male is really that much of technical challenge so i'd guess it's because of how staunchly different she'd be, ergo her staff.
I believe what was meant by that is that they already had a base model to work with. Wolf was modeled off of Fox, and then most of his animations were taken from other characters albeit altered of course. He was pretty much a Frankenstein's monster mashup of moves.
 
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Arcadenik

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Tbf to Krystal, a lot of people though Bowser Jr's window to make it in into Smash had closed by the time 4 was announced, and he made it. Maybe the same can happen to her?
I don't think Krystal has any hope unless she shows up in future Star Fox games... assuming we do get a new Star Fox game on Switch, that is.

Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings and even the Koopa Clown Car were in latest Mario games between 2008 and 2014.
 

Arcadenik

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Now I have to wonder if there were a timeline split in the Star Fox series.
 

FunAtParties

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I don't think Krystal has any hope unless she shows up in future Star Fox games... assuming we do get a new Star Fox game on Switch, that is.

Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings and even the Koopa Clown Car were in latest Mario games between 2008 and 2014.
I guess I'll concede lol. Time kinda flies by and Command felt like it came out not too long ago. It's crazy to think it's already been a decade. She really hasn't been anywhere lately.

I still believe she'll make a return to the series one day. I think Star Fox Zero's mixed reviews may be the door that needed to open for her to have a chance to return. I'm just gonna be optimistic, I've lost enough characters.

That being said, I now agree, her Smash chances don't look good.

Semi relevant, but how would you feel if they retconned her Star Fox games, and actually made that Dinosaur Planet game?
 
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Arcadenik

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Nintendo really should make Krystal's own spin off game titled Star Fox Adventures: Dinosaur Planet and it stars Krystal and Sabre.
 

Kirbeh

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Nintendo really should make Krystal's own spin off game titled Star Fox Adventures: Dinosaur Planet and it stars Krystal and Sabre.
This is pretty much what I've been asking for as well, minus Sabre. Nothing against him, but I personally don't have any interest in the character. And if Miyu and Faye still haven't gotten into the series even with Zero taking a few things from Star Fox 2, then I don't see his chances being very high. Funny how this went from talking about the chances of Star Fox characters getting into Smash Bros. to talking about the chances of scrapped characters getting back into Star Fox.

Anyway, back to Krystal, I think a fresh start with a re imagining of Adventures/Dinosaur Planet with her as the actual protagonist would be a nice way to reintroduce her. At some point in the story, team Star Fox shows up and they come into contact with each other, maybe work together at certain points, etc, etc. And at the end of the game they ask her to join their crew which she accepts, and then they move on to the next proper Star Fox game with her now on the team. After that they continue the series and hopefully don't end up making a new equivalent to Star Fox Command.
 

N3ON

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Lots to unpack here.

Looking at sales is a better angle than how iconic the series is.
I agree, because iconography is subjective, but sales from a bygone generation of gaming, let alone three gens ago, aren't going to hold a great deal of sway when there's little current success to be had. At least in terms of Smash.

And I say that as a Krystal supporter and an Isaac supporter.

Wolf taking her chance in Brawl doesn't persay prevent either of them from returning. Starfox itself seems like a special case in itself seeing as Wolf is a veteran of smash and people wanting him to return seems quite global and Krystal for seperate reasons all together, but no one expected him not to return and no one expected him not to be DLC for smash 4.
That really has little to do with StarFox specifically and more with just how Smash handles its veterans. Also I'm not arguing against Wolf returning, I think he will at some point in Smash's future.

She may have missed the standard opportunity to be fighter but with the ballot the next form of smash is likely to be anything from conventional and Miyamoto being interested in putting more passion into SF sounds like a good time to put something into a 25th sequel.
There's two separate points here, one is the ballot, and one is Miyamoto's dedication to Star Fox. As for the former, Krystal probably did decently... but decently isn't good enough when even characters like K. Rool are getting omitted. Also this doesn't really set Krystal apart or overshadow her shortcomings, as one can imagine a plethora of characters did decently on that ballot.

And as for the latter, I'd say Miyamoto doubling down on Star Fox is a bane to Krystal's chances, not a boon. Firstly, he tends to exclude characters that weren't created internally. You can see this with SF0. Or Diddy's absence in DK Jungle Beat. Second, we don't even know how faithful Nintendo is to these words considering they allegedly canned Tecmo's Starfox Warriors idea, which presumably would've had Krystal in it.

Krystal already "dancing" in Sakurai's head means she very well might appear. The relevance card is a strong card indeed but it's not omnipotent. If the character can sell on it's own merits it doesn't need to be an advertisement.
It's not omnipotent but if characters more popular and more generally important within their series can't make it I don't hold out much hope for one of diminishing presence in both those categories, such as Krystal.

And there's not too much reason to not expect a Starfox title on the switch.
Well how about the fact that the last iteration, which itself was clearly a budget title, probably didn't recoup its costs? I mean that's the reason we haven't got an F-Zero in forever.

I hate to be a raincloud because I'd be elated if we got another, and it could happen, but I'd caution no one be surprised if it doesn't.

I don't think the team really thought Roy should return for Fire Emblem but he reappeared as a vet anyway because melee fans loved him.
Ask the team if they can give us any leaks for any upcoming Smash games since you seem to have correspondence with them~

Wolf is arguably the most requested veteran from around the net aswell so that comparison does work. I'd be willing to wager clones don't affect series in a representation sense and they come in simply due to current popularity of said series.
I think at this point he's probably third, but yeah, that doesn't preclude him from returning. And I'd argue that every character affects series in a representation sense, but clones may count for less because they typically eschew the standard process of inclusion as well as being a more minor drain on resources. Which, incidentally, is the main reason for their inclusion, not series popularity.

Krystal would come in because of her potential as an interesting fighter and wolf would return because of ease of development and popularity. Though that would likely mean they won't look hard for more fighters for them. Either way ignoring a good and popular fighter choice for a simple reasons seems like bad design philosophy to me.
And therein lies the double standard. You choose any character and you're "ignoring" countless "good and popular fighter choices" since that category exists so plentifully. The truth of the matter is not every character can make it in, so if you're going to play the popularity game, logically you take the candidate from as close to the top as makes sense. And Krystal doesn't reside at the top anymore. If popularity is the main tune you're singing, it can be sung about any number of characters to the same effect.

It's as Sakurai said in the quote Zebei posted, "it’s not that I don’t understand how that feels, but if you start saying that, it becomes “Why isn’t Waddle Dee playable?” or Dry Bones, or Baby Peach. There’d be no end to it." There's always the next good and popular fighter; it's not like Krystal is some outstanding outlier to the current roster. She's one of dozens that resides somewhere in the upper-middle-class of feasible, popular requests.

And I don't have it out for Krystal like some. I don't think she's some trash character, nor does she deserve to be the scapegoat for all of the SF series' woes. I'm still torn up that SF Warriors was almost a thing and then wasn't. She's actually my third most-wanted character, but I'm not going to dupe myself when regarding her actual odds at inclusion as it stands now.
 
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#HBC | Red Ryu

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This is pretty much what I've been asking for as well, minus Sabre. Nothing against him, but I personally don't have any interest in the character. And if Miyu and Faye still haven't gotten into the series even with Zero taking a few things from Star Fox 2, then I don't see his chances being very high. Funny how this went from talking about the chances of Star Fox characters getting into Smash Bros. to talking about the chances of scrapped characters getting back into Star Fox.

Anyway, back to Krystal, I think a fresh start with a re imagining of Adventures/Dinosaur Planet with her as the actual protagonist would be a nice way to reintroduce her. At some point in the story, team Star Fox shows up and they come into contact with each other, maybe work together at certain points, etc, etc. And at the end of the game they ask her to join their crew which she accepts, and then they move on to the next proper Star Fox game with her now on the team. After that they continue the series and hopefully don't end up making a new equivalent to Star Fox Command.
I honestly think shoe horning fox into that game made it worse.

Dinosaur planet should have stayed as it's standalone game, would have helped with one of my biggest story problems with the game.
 

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I honestly think shoe horning fox into that game made it worse.

Dinosaur planet should have stayed as it's standalone game, would have helped with one of my biggest story problems with the game.
Now that you mention it, had Dinosaur Planet remained true to it's original vision, I don't think we'd even be having this conversation. Not in terms of Krystal as a Star Fox representative, but in terms of Krystal as a Nintendo character in general. Had it remained an original Rare property, it would've gone to Mircosoft when they bought out Rare. Maybe she would've been in Killer Instinct by now if that were the case? I never really considered that before.
 
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Luminario

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I honestly think shoe horning fox into that game made it worse.

Dinosaur planet should have stayed as it's standalone game, would have helped with one of my biggest story problems with the game.
Though if they left it out of the Starfox universe completely then Krystal might have been a one-off character never to be seen again and Starfox would likely have never gotten any female main characters to this day.
It was a terrible choice but it had at least 1 good effect, Krystal as a main Starfox character.
 

Gagnetar

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Lots to unpack here.


I agree, because iconography is subjective, but sales from a bygone generation of gaming, let alone three gens ago, aren't going to hold a great deal of sway when there's little current success to be had. At least in terms of Smash.

And I say that as a Krystal supporter and an Isaac supporter.


That really has little to do with StarFox specifically and more with just how Smash handles its veterans. Also I'm not arguing against Wolf returning, I think he will at some point in Smash's future.


There's two separate points here, one is the ballot, and one is Miyamoto's dedication to Star Fox. As for the former, Krystal probably did decently... but decently isn't good enough when even characters like K. Rool are getting omitted. Also this doesn't really set Krystal apart or overshadow her shortcomings, as one can imagine a plethora of characters did decently on that ballot.

And as for the latter, I'd say Miyamoto doubling down on Star Fox is a bane to Krystal's chances, not a boon. Firstly, he tends to exclude characters that weren't created internally. You can see this with SF0. Or Diddy's absence in DK Jungle Beat. Second, we don't even know how faithful Nintendo is to these words considering they allegedly canned Tecmo's Starfox Warriors idea, which presumably would've had Krystal in it.


It's not omnipotent but if characters more popular and more generally important within their series can't make it I don't hold out much hope for one of diminishing presence in both those categories, such as Krystal.


Well how about the fact that the last iteration, which itself was clearly a budget title, probably didn't recoup its costs? I mean that's the reason we haven't got an F-Zero in forever.

I hate to be a raincloud because I'd be elated if we got another, and it could happen, but I'd caution no one be surprised if it doesn't.


Ask the team if they can give us any leaks for any upcoming Smash games since you seem to have correspondence with them~


I think at this point he's probably third, but yeah, that doesn't preclude him from returning. And I'd argue that every character affects series in a representation sense, but clones may count for less because they typically eschew the standard process of inclusion as well as being a more minor drain on resources. Which, incidentally, is the main reason for their inclusion, not series popularity.


And therein lies the double standard. You choose any character and you're "ignoring" countless "good and popular fighter choices" since that category exists so plentifully. The truth of the matter is not every character can make it in, so if you're going to play the popularity game, logically you take the candidate from as close to the top as makes sense. And Krystal doesn't reside at the top anymore. If popularity is the main tune you're singing, it can be sung about any number of characters to the same effect.

It's as Sakurai said in the quote Zebei posted, "it’s not that I don’t understand how that feels, but if you start saying that, it becomes “Why isn’t Waddle Dee playable?” or Dry Bones, or Baby Peach. There’d be no end to it." There's always the next good and popular fighter; it's not like Krystal is some outstanding outlier to the current roster. She's one of dozens that resides somewhere in the upper-middle-class of feasible, popular requests.

And I don't have it out for Krystal like some. I don't think she's some trash character, nor does she deserve to be the scapegoat for all of the SF series' woes. I'm still torn up that SF Warriors was almost a thing and then wasn't. She's actually my third most-wanted character, but I'm not going to dupe myself when regarding her actual odds at inclusion as it stands now.
Christ this post hurt my resolve more than any hate against Krystal i've ever seen, You're saying you're a supporter? I'm saying that Krystal's popularity and kit uniqueness are potent reasons to include her. Why would Miyamoto just throw her out? her being there in the first place was his idea. That comparison that sakurai made on her I feel as a disservice to her. But I feel alone in that line of thought now.
 

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I honestly think shoe horning fox into that game made it worse.

Dinosaur planet should have stayed as it's standalone game, would have helped with one of my biggest story problems with the game.
I read that Dinosaur Planet only became Adventures was because if Nintendo didn't put a preexisting IP in it, there'd be nothing preventing Microsoft releasing it on the Xbox (since Dinosaur Planet was Rare developed, and Rare was now owned by Microsoft).

The solution was to make it a Star Fox game, seeing that the styles of the characters were so similar, it seemed like it would be a seamless transistion.

The one thing I'm not sure of is if there's anything preventing Nintendo from making that kind of game now. Who knows, maybe Microsoft would come after them for using one of "their" properties if they did.

Edit: I can't find the source, I really gotta stop doing this.
 
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N3ON

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Christ this post hurt my resolve more than any hate against Krystal i've ever seen, You're saying you're a supporter? I'm saying that Krystal's popularity and kit uniqueness are potent reasons to include her. Why would Miyamoto just throw her out? her being there in the first place was his idea.
Well I'm certainly not trying to hate or anything. I am indeed a Krystal supporter, she's been in my sig... twice I believe, and is one of the only characters I have vocally supported. I also usually try to stick up for her when she's getting **** on. That said, just because I like the character (and agree she'd be neat in Smash) doesn't mean I believe she's likely. Because at this juncture, I just don't. I wish she was. But her time to get in seems to have peaked with Brawl. I'm just trying to look at things as free from bias as I can.

Now she does have popularity, but a lot less than how much she used to have, and the SF series is again looking precarious. It seems unlikely there'd be a great impetus to even include a new SF character currently, Wolf notwithstanding. Not to mention, Krystal hasn't even shown up within the series for over a decade at this point. So the popularity isn't enough to set her apart right now... and the uniqueness, while certainly there, is not something exclusive to Krystal. There are hundreds of characters that could provide a unique moveset.

I do believe she can go back to being likely with relative ease, however. That would require a new SF title in which she had a presence, ideally being well received commercially. At that point, again Wolf notwithstanding, I believe she'd be a lot likelier, and the next in line from the SF series.

Also I can't speak for Miyamoto (or EPD in general), that's just what I've noticed. And I mean... they could've included her in SF0 if they wanted to. There's nothing that would've stopped them from rebooting the story with Krystal involved - she's a popular character - yet they didn't. It stands to reason they won't include her in future titles if they are the ones helming it. They seem to disregard a lot of what Nintendo themselves didn't do, which some might argue is to the detriment of the series. I'd agree with that, as while titles like Assault and Command have been far from perfect, they've provided some ideas that would help elevate the series past its relatively dated core, should they be more deeply embraced and polished.

That comparison that sakurai made on her I feel as a disservice to her. But I feel alone in that line of thought now.
Fwiw, it wasn't really about her any more than it would be for any other character. He was just saying that there will always be characters that don't make it, and thus asking why one specifically didn't make it is relatively arbitrary and would prove endless. Even if Krystal was included, there'd be the K. Rool fans, or the Ridley fans, or the Isaac fans, or whoever that would still feel shortchanged. There's always someone who won't get "their" character included. That's basically the gist.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Edit: I can't find the source, I really gotta stop doing this.
There are a lot it strange Rare buy out rumors circulating out there that have been corroborated by a few employees but those are all in random interviews and are quite old. I've heard the same thing before.

There's also the fact that Miyamoto insisted on it having the Star Fox license which may be a byproduct of the inevitable buy out.
 

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So I got an idea for a commercial for the next Smash Bros. Pretty similar to the 3DS ones last time around in that it advertises portability, local wireless play, and people as characters, only this time it's a little more on the nose and more silly. Hope the format isn't too bad, and I'll try to be a descriptive as possible.

No music yet

-Commercial starts with a guy wearing a hoodie, and some green gloves, he's beating up on a punching bag (as a giveaway punching bag will kinda look like it has eyes like Sandbag)

-We then see another guy wearing white wristbands, giving his all on a treadmill.

-The Hoodie guy is now taking a breather in a locker room, playing his Switch while he relaxes.

-Next shot shows he's playing Smash, and has Little Mac chosen, at this moment he gets a play request, camera quickly focuses on the background where runner guy also has a Switch and signals for hoodie guy to play

-Hoodie guy nods back. Music starts playing.

-Quick shot of Little Mac playing Sonic


-Next scene shows a guy playing his Switch at the kitchen table. The doors under the kitchen sink are wide open and wrenches and other tools are laying around on the floor; out of scene his wife yells "did you fix the sink yet?", he yells back "almost there, honey", she then screams in terror at the top of her lungs.

-He runs into the living room, she points to the window

-A creepy man wearing a red jersey with the number "1" on it is staring dead face back at them, after a moments hesitation he raises his arm to reveal that he too has a Switch and has sent a play request

-Husband guy says "oh, ok" as if this is a normal thing, and begins to play, as the wife stares on in befuddlement

-Quick shot of creepy man sitting outside their house playing as Villager vs Mario


-Next scene reveals two 'actors' one man, one woman. They're kind of sweaty, and in robes, they walk towards a couple of chairs and pick up their respective Switch's, and sit down.

-Quick look at the screen reveals someone is playing DK, you hear the man's voice saying "you ready?"

-Quick shot of the actors, man is waiting for the woman's answer; she nonchalantly wipes her mouth, presses a button, you hear the Smash announcer say "Kirby". She responds with a smirk, "Yep."



-Final scene shows a close-up of a security guard. It's dark around him, except for the bright light illuminating in front of his face. You can hear he's playing Smash Bros. He then mouths the words "What the h..." with an inquisitive look on his face as he starts to get up.

-He walks out of the security room shining a flashlight back and forth looking around. Unbeknownst to him, directly to his side there's a cardboard box emitting light from underneath it. It slowly creeps away.

After that comes the tagline, something corny like "Who will you choose" or whatever. Directly after shows the release date, and the 'only for Switch' thing. Commercial ends




Sorry if that sucked, anyway does anyone wanna guess what character the last guy was facing?
 

Kirbeh

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So I got an idea for a commercial for the next Smash Bros. Pretty similar to the 3DS ones last time around in that it advertises portability, local wireless play, and people as characters, only this time it's a little more on the nose and more silly. Hope the format isn't too bad, and I'll try to be a descriptive as possible.

No music yet

-Commercial starts with a guy wearing a hoodie, and some green gloves, he's beating up on a punching bag (as a giveaway punching bag will kinda look like it has eyes like Sandbag)

-We then see another guy wearing white wristbands, giving his all on a treadmill.

-The Hoodie guy is now taking a breather in a locker room, playing his Switch while he relaxes.

-Next shot shows he's playing Smash, and has Little Mac chosen, at this moment he gets a play request, camera quickly focuses on the background where runner guy also has a Switch and signals for hoodie guy to play

-Hoodie guy nods back. Music starts playing.

-Quick shot of Little Mac playing Sonic


-Next scene shows a guy playing his Switch at the kitchen table. The doors under the kitchen sink are wide open and wrenches and other tools are laying around on the floor; out of scene his wife yells "did you fix the sink yet?", he yells back "almost there, honey", she then screams in terror at the top of her lungs.

-He runs into the living room, she points to the window

-A creepy man wearing a red jersey with the number "1" on it is staring dead face back at them, after a moments hesitation he raises his arm to reveal that he too has a Switch and has sent a play request

-Husband guy says "oh, ok" as if this is a normal thing, and begins to play, as the wife stares on in befuddlement

-Quick shot of creepy man sitting outside their house playing as Villager vs Mario


-Next scene reveals two 'actors' one man, one woman. They're kind of sweaty, and in robes, they walk towards a couple of chairs and pick up their respective Switch's, and sit down.

-Quick look at the screen reveals someone is playing DK, you hear the man's voice saying "you ready?"

-Quick shot of the actors, man is waiting for the woman's answer; she nonchalantly wipes her mouth, presses a button, you hear the Smash announcer say "Kirby". She responds with a smirk, "Yep."



-Final scene shows a close-up of a security guard. It's dark around him, except for the bright light illuminating in front of his face. You can hear he's playing Smash Bros. He then mouths the words "What the h..." with an inquisitive look on his face as he starts to get up.

-He walks out of the security room shining a flashlight back and forth looking around. Unbeknownst to him, directly to his side there's a cardboard box emitting light from underneath it. It slowly creeps away.

After that comes the tagline, something corny like "Who will you choose" or whatever. Directly after shows the release date, and the 'only for Switch' thing. Commercial ends




Sorry if that sucked, anyway does anyone wanna guess what character the last guy was facing?
Yeah but Solid Snake?

It seemed like a believable Nintendo commercial up until the Villager guy at the window, though that was pretty funny. :p
Everything else seems pretty good, with my only other criticism being "What the h..." Not because I take issue with it myself, but because it's Nintendo were talking about. It'd probably just be a quick "What the...?!" I don't see them asking for a cut off at "h", when it could easily be assumed to be hell. Gotta stay squeaky clean right?
 
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I guess it has been spoken earlier, but what if there was a specific final results theme for every character instead of only one, much like :4cloud:'s own fanfare?


Some ideas so far:
:4bayonetta:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIdu9l55UyQ

:4bowser:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjkGGMxyxiA

:4bowserjr:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWnuojPSXTM

:4falcon:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss4nRi3EhAM

:4charizard:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_czEUlMh3zs

:4darkpit:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_Lwf6uaYOs

:4diddy:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSwbr0voBtM

Dixie Kong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3edFLXSf1eo

:4dk:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaG5HiwxPjM

:4fox:/:4falco:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuB1S_avUWw

:4ganondorf:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkOBvPZhy7A

:4greninja:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVEqey_lDDc

Inkling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBzWCawaSmg

:4jigglypuff:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkCzlg6-xEQ

:4larry::4roy::4wendy::4iggy::4morton::4lemmy::4ludwig:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9BmzL-_wMk

:4littlemac:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEG5dkJNd50

:4link:/:4tlink:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rA_u3CCPa4

:4lucario:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eHoQITEo2M

:4lucas:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFn77x-U5Io

:4lucina:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4QEPTCamPo

:4luigi:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9JWZ0mlX94

:4mario:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_FCUrxESJs

:4megaman:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_1IgParl80

:4mewtwo:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2swessXfCCs&t

:4ness:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8HVmNnUJvA

:4olimar:/:4alph:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnBhzdj17IM

:4palutena:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6hO8Ey5B74

:4peach:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L--J9KfHfgY

:4pikachu:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2oipTPjpW8

:4pit:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhbHpf1wecM

:4robinm:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaEu4kAWhQQ

:rosalina:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY_qs-ra_88

:4samus:/:4zss:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wixXi9NmlT0

:4sheik:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRKAZrMXm4c

:4shulk:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlJ5mRifhH4

:4sonic:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3rQFdGY2Hw

:4villager:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KAFTh5zqF4

:4wario2:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOBYuPylPy8

:4yoshi:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiqwnAI9Yoc

:4zelda:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j68QmOjUpE
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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Rosalina and Dark Pit did have their own unique victory themes, despite not having their own series symbols. Of course, it does baffle the mind how Dr. Mario never received his own victory theme, or his own series symbol.

The following would've probably worked for Dr. Mario's victory theme.

 
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Swamp Sensei

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Rosalina and Dark Pit did have their own unique victory themes, despite not having their own series symbols. Of course, it does baffle the mind how Dr. Mario never received his own victory theme, or his own series symbol.

The following would've probably worked for Dr. Mario's victory theme.

Victory Theme =/= Final Results Theme.
 

Kirbeh

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Rosalina and Dark Pit did have their own unique victory themes, despite not having their own series symbols. Of course, it does baffle the mind how Dr. Mario never received his own victory theme, or his own series symbol.

The following would've probably worked for Dr. Mario's victory theme.

Dr. Mario likely keeps the same series symbol because the Dr. Mario games are still considered as spin-offs that are part of the Mario franchise as opposed to having branched off into it's own series like DK, Yoshi, and Wario.

His lack of a unique victory fanfare, is likely due to be being a low priority clone, and really a lot of fans question why "x" doesn't have unique victory fanfare.

Meta Knight having his own in Brawl always felt like an odd choice to me in the first place. I'm likely in the minority here, but I'd prefer if characters from the same series shared the same fanfare as was the case originally. Not really a fan of MK or Bowser and Bowser Jr.'s arrangements. It just feels inconsistent to me.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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If you mean the results screen for Classic and All-Star, it was probably less time consuming if everyone used a remix of the game's theme song.
Okay...

You know how Cloud's Victory theme keeps playing.

He's saying each character should have a theme like that.

Hence why he linked themes that were long.
 

wedl!!

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Samus shouldn't be playable in the Power Suit. It makes sense, but it's not like the character is reliant on her being inside the suit. They could just have Power Suit Samus be SAX instead, and have Zero Suit Samus be the only playable Samus. Both ideas can coexist, and Samus can do her own thing.
it'd be neat but, like, the majority of people playing Smash aren't familiar with Metroid characters other than Samus

plus there's no real reason to alter a character after twenty years when having two iterations of the same character hasn't impacted them in a mechanical sense
 

Kirbeh

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it'd be neat but, like, the majority of people playing Smash aren't familiar with Metroid characters other than Samus

plus there's no real reason to alter a character after twenty years when having two iterations of the same character hasn't impacted them in a mechanical sense
I don't believe Doggo Gojira was actually being serious, but rather trying to make a point regarding an earlier argument about changing Bowser Jr. into his own character with the paintbrush from Sunshine, while leaving all the Koopalings to handle the Koopa Clown Kart design they all currently share.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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Dr. Mario likely keeps the same series symbol because the Dr. Mario games are still considered as spin-offs that are part of the Mario franchise as opposed to having branched off into it's own series like DK, Yoshi, and Wario.

His lack of a unique victory fanfare, is likely due to be being a low priority clone, and really a lot of fans question why "x" doesn't have unique victory fanfare.
Another thing that seems quite odd is that in Smash Wii U, the Viruses trophy was placed in the Other category, despite being highly affiliated with the Super Mario franchise; they were the primary antagonists that Dr. Mario had to stop after all.

Meta Knight having his own in Brawl always felt like an odd choice to me in the first place. I'm likely in the minority here, but I'd prefer if characters from the same series shared the same fanfare as was the case originally. Not really a fan of MK or Bowser and Bowser Jr.'s arrangements. It just feels inconsistent to me.
My best guess as to why Meta Knight received a rock-themed variation of Kirby's victory theme was because he was too serious of a character to be using a relaxed victory theme; Kirby and Dedede were far more humorous in nature.

Similarly, Bowser and Bowser Jr. received a rock-themed variation of the Super Mario victory theme, presumably because they needed a victory theme that sounded more diabolic than the usual upbeat victory theme that Mario, Luigi, and Peach use.

However, Ganondorf did pretty much use the exact same victory theme as the other Legend of Zelda fighters, despite being a highly notable villain in the franchise.

Okay...

You know how Cloud's Victory theme keeps playing.

He's saying each character should have a theme like that.

Hence why he linked themes that were long.
So in a way, my victory theme BGM input for Dr. Mario was on-topic, as it does loop.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Now that you mention it, had Dinosaur Planet remained true to it's original vision, I don't think we'd even be having this conversation. Not in terms of Krystal as a Star Fox representative, but in terms of Krystal as a Nintendo character in general. Had it remained an original Rare property, it would've gone to Mircosoft when they bought out Rare. Maybe she would've been in Killer Instinct by now if that were the case? I never really considered that before.
While true, I'm not as big into her as a lot of people have told me with star fox characters. I just find Fox, Falco and Wolf a lot more interesting and while she would bring a different character into the mix if I liked the game she was from more I might see the appeal.

If what one of the above told me in a quote is true, they I get why they put star fox into it if that was the case. I just don't like the game personally because it feels nothing like what a Star Fox game is contradictory to what happens in assault where they shoot the planet up. Yeah there was an alien threat at the time but wasn't the stuff General Scales doing worth whooping out his blaster for? I never really liked the game much, even more so when I do love The Legend of Zelda.

That's where my hang up with her is, I liked one of the games she did appear in, Assault, but no so much the other one, command.

Maybe if I liked the more of the games she was from, I might like her more but as is, ehh I'm just not there like I am with Wolf.
 

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Okay...

You know how Cloud's Victory theme keeps playing.

He's saying each character should have a theme like that.

Hence why he linked themes that were long.
I'd love that, it gives each character their own appeal when finishing a match. While I'm not sure if they can do that for every character in the game. It would be nice to see for those characters who do have lasting victory themes in their own games, such as Dr. Mario, Ness, Lucas etc. It's pretty much what I also did for my Smash 4 mods too.... )
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Okay...

You know how Cloud's Victory theme keeps playing.

He's saying each character should have a theme like that.

Hence why he linked themes that were long.
I've always liked the idea that, in the event Snake came back, he'd have this:
Followed by this:
But looped, of course.

I've thought a lot about this, just like @Final Smash Gamer, and I'd really like for each character to have their own individual victory themes and final results themes. Makes winning with those specific characters more personal.
 
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Kirbeh

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Another thing that seems quite odd is that in Smash Wii U, the Viruses trophy was placed in the Other category, despite being highly affiliated with the Super Mario franchise; they were the primary antagonists that Dr. Mario had to stop after all.

My best guess as to why Meta Knight received a rock-themed variation of Kirby's victory theme was because he was too serious of a character to be using a relaxed victory theme; Kirby and Dedede were far more humorous in nature.

Similarly, Bowser and Bowser Jr. received a rock-themed variation of the Super Mario victory theme, presumably because they needed a victory theme that sounded more diabolic than the usual upbeat victory theme that Mario, Luigi, and Peach use.

However, Ganondorf did pretty much use the exact same victory theme as the other Legend of Zelda fighters, despite being a highly notable villain in the franchise.
Perhaps it was deliberate, or it could have been a mistake, we don't really have a way of knowing. That is pretty odd though.

Back to the fanfare, sure it can be said the rock renditions fit their personality, but I'd argue the normal themes fit just as well. Plus it's still really inconsistent. Why does Rosalina have unique fanfare, while Bowser and Bowser Jr. only get rock versions of the regular Mario fanfare?

Why doesn't Luigi have fanfare based off of Luigi's Mansion then? Rosalina was featured in Galaxy but Luigi was the actual star of both LM games (Plus being around for far, far longer in multiple prominent roles across several games.)? Why did she get priority?

Why don't the Pokemon and Fire Emblem characters each have fanfare relating to their particular games?

And while I'm at it, I was actually totally off on Dr. Mario. You're question still stands. Why didn't he get a unique theme when another last minute clone like Dark Pit did?

And as you pointed out why doesn't Ganondorf have fanfare more fitting to him?

My big issue with it is, as I said, how inconsistent it is. I like the idea of giving each character something unique, but I just prefer the shared victory fanfares. I think the series symbol and victory fanfare should be consistent so as
to properly show who is representing what series. Perhaps that seems a bit silly, and unnecessary especially for longtime Nintendo fans who usually know who everyone is, but it's just something that I'm personally fond of.

I guess I just like the idea of characters from the same series having an actual common trait showing where they hail from, and the way Sakurai handled it with series icons and fanfare works really well imo.

While true, I'm not as big into her as a lot of people have told me with star fox characters. I just find Fox, Falco and Wolf a lot more interesting and while she would bring a different character into the mix if I liked the game she was from more I might see the appeal.

If what one of the above told me in a quote is true, they I get why they put star fox into it if that was the case. I just don't like the game personally because it feels nothing like what a Star Fox game is contradictory to what happens in assault where they shoot the planet up. Yeah there was an alien threat at the time but wasn't the stuff General Scales doing worth whooping out his blaster for? I never really liked the game much, even more so when I do love The Legend of Zelda.

That's where my hang up with her is, I liked one of the games she did appear in, Assault, but no so much the other one, command.

Maybe if I liked the more of the games she was from, I might like her more but as is, ehh I'm just not there like I am with Wolf.
That's understandable. I mostly support her as I like the idea of what she could bring via a spear/magic moveset. I don't actually like Adventures as a game (and of course don't think it fit very well as Star Fox game), and the less said about Command the better. On top of that I haven't even played the Star Fox games myself. My experience with the series has been watching others play through them.

At first I actually wasn't a fan of the idea of her joining either, but I guess she grew on me over the years from seeing all her dedicated fans and finally seeing the games in action. She's not among my most wanted characters, but I can see the appeal, and do like her as a character now (Command notwithstanding.)

I'd love that, it gives each character their own appeal when finishing a match. While I'm not sure if they can do that for every character in the game. It would be nice to see for those characters who do have lasting victory themes in their own games, such as Dr. Mario, Ness, Lucas etc. It's pretty much what I also did for my Smash 4 mods too.... )
I think this could be a good compromise. Each series has a fanfare jingle shared across it's characters, but all characters could have unique themes that play for the remainder of the results screen.
 
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