Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

well the difference is that kirby is my favorite franchise ever and i don't like fire emblem at all

I'm sorry, how could I forget you, of all people, feel.

 

[Bionichute]

I'm sorry, how could I forget you, of all people, feel.

its almost like we have completely different opinions and everyone will complain about different things

 

[Impa4Smash]

E. Gadd to promote Luigi’s Mansion 3 is best shill pick. Change my mind

 

[Bionichute]

E. Gadd to promote Luigi’s Mansion 3 is best shill pick. Change my mind

poochy to advertise crafted world, there you go

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

tibby from rhythm heaven megamix

Actually, that is incorrect...

Rhythm Heaven Megamix came out in Japan in 2015...
If we're going by the whole "only characters up to 2014" thing, Tibby wouldn't qualify

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I mean...

Elma was probably created before 2014.

Yeah, let's just go with that. At least it's something...

 

[Impa4Smash]

its almost like we have completely different opinions and everyone will complain about different things

If you say *insert series here* keeps getting **** it doesn’t need and don’t expect an arguement you’re gonna have a bad time

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

A game released in 2004. For the Gamecube.

Still playable on the Wii no less though.

First of all, how Snake got in isn't really relevant to the point.

I mean, it pretty much is, since it contributes to the fact that there are and were different circumstances between then and now.

Yuji Naka asked Sakurai to put in Sonic during Melee so isn't he in the same boat?

Not really. Especially considering how Sonic didn't make it into Melee, semantics aside. Back to the main topic at hand.

You're denying the fact that Snake and Cloud were in a similar situation at the time of their inclusion but in turn refuse to acknowledge that the same thing COULD happen for Leon.

Except, I've never said that Leon didn't have a shot. But in light of you claiming Phoenix Wright wouldn't be more likely than say, him or Dante, I simply stated the reasonig factors for why that might not be the case and the points Phoenix has in his favor. No harm about it, and not denying Leon's chances, but it goes both ways. And really, Snake and Cloud were not really in the same position as Dante and Leon, all things considered.

It was never stated that Cloud came from the ballot. Ever. Sakurai stated he was the FF character with the most requests, yes, but Cloud was never confirmed as a ballot choice. As a matter of fact, due to digging through the update code by the community, there was no way Cloud could have been a Ballot choice.

That's the thing though. I never claimed he got in because of the ballot. I just said that his entrance was garnered by the ballot. Sakurai already had the right idea in mind of getting Cloud. And as said before, it wasn't like the remake was coming out anytime soon so Nintendo wouldn't even have to worry about the supposed competition from said remake anyway. Especially considering how the Smash 4 Wii U's run was gonna come to an end soon.

So, since Cloud's game didn't have a release date he was fine to be added?

Again, as far as all parties knew, that game was no where close to release. In the case with Dante and Leon, I'll submit to the idea of Leon, since he does have RE4 coming to the Switch, however Nintendo might still be wary, advertising a game that's coming to all platforms but theirs still. Dante doesn't even have that though.

Nintendo calling the shots is a very good point. Very. In the same way it could also work against Phoenix though. If they really are maximizing profits then we're only getting 1st Party characters.

Not necessarily. 3rd Party DLC in and of itself has just as much potential, and with a strategically picked character can maximize profits beyond even some 1st party picks. Granted, by that logic, it would work against Leon and Dante as well.

Now, yeah you could say that Phoenix is more popular with Nintendo fans so adding him would make sense right? Well, what about fans who get their hands on RE2 or DMC5 next year and see that Leon or Dante is coming to Smash too? Which do you think would make a bigger splash? Which would drive sales of the game, the DLC, and the Switch itself. Leon and Dante because now people who are a fan of those two games are more likely to take the dive into the game because of their love of the character.

The problem with that line of thinking is that it lingers dangerously in the fields of assumption. Sure, you have some people who might buy the game for just one character, but there's no guarantee that they'll always buy a new system just to get the game that includes said character. You're kind of assuming that people geared towards different types of games on different systems would flock to a different system just for that. Not always the best idea.

So, you think they might could go with Chris? Ok, fine I'll bite. If they go with Chris they do three things. They choose the lesser popular character, they don't capitalize on the release of RE2, and they don't add the character that has been synonymous with Nintendo characters. I doubt they go with Chris but if they do? Cool.

I mean, Chris is likely. Given that he's seen as the face of the Resident Evil franchise by Capcom, and faces are often the first to get into Smash, with what past history has shown us.

Granted, you could aruge that's assumptive, but it's based on actual past trends that has gone into Smash.

But, dude, neither is Phoenix. Not enough to be palpable anyways. Phoenix isn't a K. Rool, a Ridley, a Geno, or even an Isaac. He's not a very popular character, and neither is Dante, and neither is Leon, and that's totally ok.

Ehhh, obviously I'd never say Phoenix is as high as King K. Rool or Ridley. But Geno, in the mainstream, outside of the Smash fanbase, I could argue more people know who Phoenix is. Same for Issac. Also, in terms of being a popular pick, Phoenix has shown up quite often in online ballots, and he's had notable fan outcrys. Heck, he's gotten into crossovers off of fan demand too.

The point is that, while not as hard-pressed asked for as say Geno and Issac, we shouldn't pretend that he doesn't have quite a support base for him to join Smash, compared to Capcom rivals even including Leon and Dante, given his presence and placements in polls, Obviously not a concrete metric, but he definitely shows up more there than Leon and Dante.

If I'm to be honest, in terms of moveset potential, sure Leon's got some...stuff, and all the more power to him, but not much that isn't covered well and more flashy by other characters like Snake. Dante's already has the Bayonetta elephant in the room.

During his explanation for why he included Incineroar, Sakurai did go on record to state that he prefers the variety of characters and playstyles not yet covered before in Smash. Hence why he chose Incineroar, a wrestler over the archer, Decidueye. Which brings us back to the point that Sakurai did actually select the 5 characters from the list that Nintendo picked.

Out of say, Phoenix Wright, Leon, and Dante, it's likely to say Phoenix Wright, literally a lawyer with insane moveset potential going off of his previous crossover rodeos, would be the one that scratches Sakurai's itch for variety the best.

It was meant as a little joke towards the straw grasping side of the Smash fanbase. It was not at all meant to be taken seriously. But thanks.

Don't mean anything harsh by it. Sorry If I come offf too strong at times. And hey, at the end of the day, I'm sure we'll be having fun with this game either way.

 

[MSmariosonic]

that still doesn't change the fact that kirby has been neglected in smash since brawl while fire emblem keeps getting more and more new **** that it doesn't need

This is entirely opinion based and isn't backed up by any facts

 

[Deleted member]

Real talk, why is it that most of the people leaking early footage of Ultimate so hilariously bad at it? Seriously, I saw one guy play through Link's Classic Mode, and all he just did was spam forward smash.

 

[Zeox]

I kinda wish Rayquaza and Porky came back as bosses, at least to have more that don't originate from Smash.

I'm down for playable Porky though, too. If he ends up being the shill character for like, a Mother 3 remake, I'd lose my mind with joy.

Yes, this, this a lot, thank you.

 

[Bionichute]

Actually, that is incorrect...

Rhythm Heaven Megamix came out in Japan in 2015...
If we're going by the whole "only characters up to 2014" thing, Tibby wouldn't qualify

you dont need to rub it in

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Real talk, why is it that most of the people leaking early footage of Ultimate so hilariously bad at it? Seriously, I saw one guy play through Link's Classic Mode, and all he just did was spam forward smash.

But that's my strategy, he can't just go and steal it like that! ;p

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The FE series is very varied in that there’s so many characters I mean. Which is why it’s repped less in stages and items and more in fighters as opposed to other series

Might just be me who classifies ATs as under the item category, but FE isn't doing too bad in that regard with Killing Edge + Lyn, Tiki and Black Knight. It has 3 stages as well, which is the same as series like Star Fox and Animal Crossing, so it's par the course really.

Fire Emblem is extremely well represented all around really, I'm not one to moan about it, but let's not try to spin it any other way.

 

[blackghost]

It'll be weird if Bayo is the only one who doesn't get an actual boss fight. Almost makes me wonder if there's plans to add a Bayonetta boss in an update.

Also, Pikachu/PT facing off against Mewtwo before Master Hand is fantastic.

its pretty bad her , snake, and cloud should have thier real bosses. especially considering Bayonetta raid boss is an assist trophy. i mean palutena is a decent stand-in but it could have been better.

 

[Gentlepanda]

I mean...

Elma was probably created before 2014.

i appreciate your optimism

 

[MSmariosonic]

Real talk, why is it that most of the people leaking early footage of Ultimate so hilariously bad at it? Seriously, I saw one guy play through Link's Classic Mode, and all he just did was spam forward smash.

You weren't here when that one guy who kept only using up B and couldn't figure out how to beat Ganon streamed footage of Smash, eh?

Bless your eyes and vision

 

[Zeox]

Real talk, why is it that most of the people leaking early footage of Ultimate so hilariously bad at it? Seriously, I saw one guy play through Link's Classic Mode, and all he just did was spam forward smash.

Because they are running away from Nintendo Ninjas and they have to hide and dodge shurikens and stuff.

 

[Kuon]

Real talk, why is it that most of the people leaking early footage of Ultimate so hilariously bad at it? Seriously, I saw one guy play through Link's Classic Mode, and all he just did was spam forward smash.

Probably because they're not Smash fans. They're just hackers and dataminers who probably don't play Smash all that often. They just datamine games. That's my guess

 

[Impa4Smash]

Might just be me who classifies ATs as under the item category, but FE isn't doing too bad in that regard with Killing Edge + Lyn, Tiki and Black Knight. It has 3 stages as well, which is the same as series like Star Fox and Animal Crossing, so it's par the course really.

Fire Emblem is extremely well represented all around really, I'm not one to moan about it, but let's not try to spin it any other way.

FE is very well repped. What other way was I trying to spin it?

 

[Deleted member]

You weren't here when that one guy who kept only using up B and couldn't figure out how to beat Ganon streamed footage of Smash, eh?

Bless your eyes and vision

I guess not. Who were they?

 

[Deleted member]

Aperently ive been hearing rumors from polar panda that Lloyd will be dlc?

Is this true?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

you dont need to rub it in

My apologies... My Rhythm Heaven fanboy inside me wanted to correct that... and I didn't realize that someone did it before me...

Sorry about that...

Real talk, why is it that most of the people leaking early footage of Ultimate so hilariously bad at it? Seriously, I saw one guy play through Link's Classic Mode, and all he just did was spam forward smash.

I'd assume because they never really played Smash that much...

 

[Flyboy]

the stages are more creative and lively than any stage in smash bros history, the characters are portrayed as accurately as possible, and the level of fanservice is generally way better than smash is. the devs of psabr cared more about the individual franchises they had to work with more than sakurai does, at least more obviously. ultimate is the first time we're even getting shown that the devs care for things other than fire emblem, kid icarus, and metal gear


tibby from rhythm heaven megamix

I say this as a fan of PSASBR and wishes they'd make a sequel with a better roster and more care:

Donte and MGR Raiden were purely promotional picks as were people like Emmett Graves and while they did well in a lot of regards it was stuff like that that soured a lot of perceptions about the game. It also felt super clunky. Ultimate has a ton of love put into the series it represents, but it's hilarious you say that Fire Emblem is well-receved when a lot of FE fans have complaints that the stage selection absolutely sucks in terms of accurately representing locations from the games.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Aperently ive been hearing rumors from polar panda that Lloyd will be dlc?

Is this true?

Possibly. There’s a rumor but that’s it

 

[---]

Basically, there is rumours floating around in the insiders circles, that so far, no DLC rumoured characters are Characters past 2014.

Makes sense with what Sakurai has told us so far. It's hard to think of any potential characters after that date but before the general cutoff aside from Xenoblade X content, which was far into development at the time (not that I'm saying anything in regards to Elma's chances).

In hindsight this does make things more fun/frustrating going forward. Having more breathing room between each game means more potential new content to draw from and speculate upon.

 

[Bionichute]

all kirby got for smash 4 was two really terrible stages, barely any remixes worth noting (most of them were remixes of things that ALREADY HAD REMIXES), and one viable character while the other two sank to bottom tier. even with dedede looking slightly better in ultimate, there's still only two remixes and a new item (and also you know what but shh on that)

i don't exactly appreciate my favorite series being neglected like that for a decade

 

[Nekoo]

Aperently ive been hearing rumors from polar panda that Lloyd will be dlc?

Is this true?

There no "Will be DLC"
It's just that if there was a Namco rep discussed for DLC, it appears that only Yuri and LLyod's name were brought up, or pop-up in this periods so far.
It's all hypothetical, but sources seems to have only heard those names for a Namco rep.

The only things close to "will be DLC" is the Square-Enix rep. With the sheer numbers of credible people who have heard of it.

 

[Zeox]

all kirby got for smash 4 was two really terrible stages, barely any remixes worth noting (most of them were remixes of things that ALREADY HAD REMIXES), and one viable character while the other two sank to bottom tier. even with dedede looking slightly better in ultimate, there's still only two remixes and a new item (and also you know what but shh on that)

i don't exactly appreciate my favorite series being neglected like that for a decade

Hey, Kirby at least got a boss and a new assist trophy now.

 

[Impa4Smash]

all kirby got for smash 4 was two really terrible stages, barely any remixes worth noting (most of them were remixes of things that ALREADY HAD REMIXES), and one viable character while the other two sank to bottom tier. even with dedede looking slightly better in ultimate, there's still only two remixes and a new item (and also you know what but shh on that)

i don't exactly appreciate my favorite series being neglected like that for a decade

Maybe we’ll be blessed with bandanna boi as Dee-LC

 

[MasterOfKnees]

FE is very well repped. What other way was I trying to spin it?

My point was about its representation across the board, your post made it out that because it's a character focused franchise it isn't as well represented in areas other than characters as some other series, when it's really doing perfectly fine in that regard. It's not like it's just frontloaded in the character department.

 

[Pakky]

all kirby got for smash 4 was two really terrible stages, barely any remixes worth noting (most of them were remixes of things that ALREADY HAD REMIXES), and one viable character while the other two sank to bottom tier. even with dedede looking slightly better in ultimate, there's still only two remixes and a new item (and also you know what but shh on that)

i don't exactly appreciate my favorite series being neglected like that for a decade

I wonder if Susie is going to be a main stay now. She's on the Kriby Twitter a bunch now right?

 

[Bionichute]

oh yeah i guess nightmare was an assist in 4

that motionless sprite of nightmare that did generic effects sure was fun

 

[osby]

all kirby got for smash 4 was two really terrible stages, barely any remixes worth noting (most of them were remixes of things that ALREADY HAD REMIXES), and one viable character while the other two sank to bottom tier. even with dedede looking slightly better in ultimate, there's still only two remixes and a new item (and also you know what but shh on that)

i don't exactly appreciate my favorite series being neglected like that for a decade

You count tiers as representation? I thought that was a Zelda fandom thing.

 

[Zeox]

oh yeah i guess nightmare was an assist in 4

that motionless sprite of nightmare that did generic effects sure was fun

I love Kirby too so I can felt you, I wasn't really a big fan of Smash 4 roster anyways.

 

[Impa4Smash]

My point was about its representation across the board, your post made it out that because it's a character focused franchise it isn't as well represented in areas other than characters as some other series, when it's really doing perfectly fine in that regard.

Oh no my point was because it was a character focused franchise it got more characters than, say, Zelda. Which has a core cast (so most popular one-off characters are ATs) and a lot of diverse locations (hence the stages)

 

[Bionichute]

You count tiers as representation? I thought that was a Zelda fandom thing.

finding out that dedede was pushed from bottom to low tier is what made me change my mind on ultimate being bad, i care immensely about how these characters are portrayed

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Apparently all DLC fighters are originated from before 2014

So you are saying Layton has a chance?

 

[Dyllybirdy]

I feel I'm one of the few people, who thinks that Zelda, has a good enough amount of representation.

 

[Impa4Smash]

finding out that dedede was pushed from bottom to low tier is what made me change my mind on ultimate being bad, i care immensely about how these characters are portrayed

Zelda was bottom tier in 4, I still loved and played the hell out of her. And occasionally kicked ass (I’m not that good)