Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chrono.]

That's a little presumptuous. 7 gen is over, with the reveal of Zeraora.

Why people think Smash is going to promote a pokemon generation that will soon be outdated upon the games is beyond me. That has never happened as far as I know.

It only never happened because the development of Smash games and certain Pokemon eras completely clashed with each other.

Which doesn't seem to be the case with Smash Switch and the Sun/Moon-era.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That's a little presumptuous. 7 gen is over, with the reveal of Zeraora.

Why people think Smash is going to promote a pokemon generation that will soon be outdated upon the games is beyond me. That has never happened as far as I know.

Counter-argument:, who got in Melee despite the fact Gold and Silver already existed by 1999. That game only got because he was a last-minute addition.

Also, Sun and Moon was the "hot" new upcoming generation when the roster was likely finalised in 2016

Given there’s over 600 Pokemon, it isn’t feasible to include everyone single one in Super Smash Bros, for obvious reasons.

So how are Pokemon selected for inclusion in the series?

“Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company,” explained designer Masahiro Sakurai when we put the question to him. “What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front.

“For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward.

“But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things.”

 

[Deleted member]

They have very different proportions though. Zard's wings are much smaller in comparison to Ridley's wing span. I'm not talking like in actual size but proportion to the rest of each of their bodies. There are other attributes like Zard having thicker legs and Ridley having very lanky ones. Zard having a smaller head but a much longer neck while Ridley has the inverse ect.

es, but I can make Ridley's tail not that big and I can make his body a bit small while Ridley's wings can be a little bigger than Charizard's yet they work.

Then again, it would be weird to see Ridley small. IDK.

 

[Pakky]

It only never happened because the development of Smash games and certain Pokemon eras completely clashed with each other.

Which doesn't seem to be the case with Smash Switch and the Sun/Moon-era.

Though my point still stands. Why?

 

[Hinata]

Spring Man vs Shulk: The Battle of the Photoshopped Little Macs

"Shulk is just a photoshopped Little Mac!"
"Spring Man is just a modded Little Mac!"

History repeats itself.

 

[Pakky]

Counter-argument:, who got in Melee despite the fact Gold and Silver already existed by 1999. That game only got because he was a last-minute addition.

Still promotes the newest gen at the time.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Well if its fake or not, this is what Smash Switch is going to look like. Its not like theres a graphic leap from the Wii U to Switch. Springman does look pretty well done if fake and the animation seems pretty decent. However the modding community is pretty solid at the moment. What does get me about this is how they ripped Decidueye and Springman models if fake. Theres no known way to rip Switch models at the moment, and Decidueye doesn't exist in Pokken for Wii U... meaning these were made from the ground up.

Also is that Little Macs side aerial?

 

[Chrono.]

Though my point still stands. Why?

Because the roster was likely finalized in 2016 where Gen 8 was probably in only extremely early stages?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Though my point still stands. Why?

Because smash isn't a billboard for advertisement.

 

[Ridel]

es, but I can make Ridley's tail not that big and I can make his body a bit small while Ridley's wings can be a little bigger than Charizard's yet they work.

Then again, it would be weird to see Ridley small. IDK.

Yea you start to get to a point where you alter the characters design too much and they start to look very different from what their core is supposed to be.

 

[Pakky]

Because the roster was likely finalized in 2016 where Gen 8 was probably in only extremely early stages?

Like X&Y?

 

[Jubileus57]

That's a little presumptuous. 7 gen is over, with the reveal of Zeraora.

Why people think Smash is going to promote a pokemon generation that will soon be outdated upon the games is beyond me. That has never happened as far as I know.

Zeraora doesn't signify the end of Gen 7 by any mean. He even was hidden within the files of USUM. He is more akin to the late mythicals like Hoopa or Volcanion in Gen 6...

 

[Pakky]

Because smash isn't a billboard for advertisement.

Mmmm, don't know about that.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Getting a Gen 8 Pokemon (outside of last-minute clones) in Smash Switch would be equivalent of getting a FE10 character in Brawl as it released in the same year Brawl was originally intended to. But we ultimately got Ike based off Path of Radiance, a game that was released the same year Brawl's roster was finalized. Unless we're getting clones, I don't expect any Gen 8 characters.

I mean, Gen 7 was the upcoming game at the time the roster was finalized.

 

[Pakky]

Zeraora doesn't signify the end of Gen 7 by any mean. He even was hidden within the files of USUM. He is more akin to the late mythicals like Hoopa or Volcanion in Gen 6...

So what's left to cover in gen 7?

 

[CommanderZaktan]

And Omni curbstomped this.

Nice

Always be wary of allegedly “leaked" images that almost exclusively feature assets that are recycled. These Spring Stadium assets are ripped right out of ARMS. And obviously the Yoshi stage is also an old asset. And all of the character models. https://t.co/6lFw9Xz69x

— Omni Jacala @☁️ (@artsyomni) April 14, 2018

He got us again.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ZmI0oJCzg4N32/giphy.gif

 

[Ridel]

Mmmm, don't know about that.

Pit was hardly an advertisement. Uprising came out 2 years before Smash 4.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Mmmm, don't know about that.

Corrin is literally the only one that makes sense there.

Roy was a last minute clone.

Robin wasn't an advertisement.

Pit didn't have a ****ing game in like a decade when he was added.

 

[Jubileus57]

So what's left to cover in gen 7?

The point was that Zeraora didn't mark the sudden beginning of gen 8.
We know nothing of Pokémon Switch after all. Even if a gen8 is likely, Zeraora doesn't signify that gen 7 is over.
Or maybe I misunderstood your post.

 

[Chrono.]

Getting a Gen 8 Pokemon (outside of last-minute clones) in Smash Switch would be equivalent of getting a FE10 character in Brawl as it released in the same year Brawl was originally intended to. But we ultimately got Ike based off Path of Radiance, a game that was released the same year Brawl's roster was finalized. Unless we're getting clones, I don't expect any Gen 8 characters.

I mean, Gen 7 was the upcoming game at the time the roster was finalized.

Yeah plus... We don't even know any Gen 8 Pokemon.

We don't even know if Gen 8 is out this year.

At least with Greninja, XY had already been out and they likely knew it'd be out before Smash 4.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yeah plus... We don't even know any Gen 8 Pokemon.

We don't even know if Gen 8 is out this year.

At least with Greninja, XY had already been out and they likely knew it'd be out before Smash 4.

And Gen 5 was two years old when the roster for Smash 4 was finalised.

Corrin is literally the only one that makes sense there.

Roy was a last minute clone.

Robin wasn't an advertisement.

Pit didn't have a ****ing game in like a decade when he was added.

To add to the points made:

• Roy's game was intended to be released before Melee (and he did get a ton of hate for being perceived as nothing more than an walking ad)
• Corrin was one of the most controversial DLC additions partially because he was seen by detractors as "a shallow advertisement character nobody asked for"

 

[TumblrFamous]

There's still a good chance the Pokemon game comes out in 2019. No one ever mentions that. Having a character come out potentially a few months after Smash would be weird.

Getting a Gen 8 Pokemon (outside of last-minute clones) in Smash Switch would be equivalent of getting a FE10 character in Brawl as it released in the same year Brawl was originally intended to. But we ultimately got Ike based off Path of Radiance, a game that was released the same year Brawl's roster was finalized. Unless we're getting clones, I don't expect any Gen 8 characters.

I mean, Gen 7 was the upcoming game at the time the roster was finalized.

This. Exactly this. It's all about the time when the roster was finalized.

So what's left to cover in gen 7?

Gen 7 may be over, but there's a lot from this line of games. Gen 7 was a huge generation, Sun and Moon were highly anticipated and critically acclaimed, and were super important games, much like how Awakening was huge for Fire Emblem (granted this Gen 8 will probably be bigger, but because of the time of the roster finaliztion, that's besides the point).

As for Pokemon to cover it, Decidueye and Incineroar are popular starters, Lycanroc for the anime and its dusk form, and Mimikyu for its massive popularity. There's a lot to take from this generation.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@BluePikmin11 Sorry, I can't think of any examples off the top of my head.

Still promotes the newest gen at the time.

But wasn't added to do so. There's actually nothing suggesting it was purely a New Gen thing. Meanwhile his movie appearances and ease to make a clone were a lot more important. Sakurai mostly chooses Pokemon with the Anime and Movies taken into account to make it easier to figure out who's "hot or not", as noted before.

The only time he's explicitly chosen a Pokemon due to the Gen itself was Greninja. There is nothing to suggest he chose a Pokemon due to a specific Gen beyond that from what I've read so far(and remember). Anybody is obviously free to bring up an article on someone, like, say, Lucario that shows there's more examples, though.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Spring man's legs seem far too stiff in the "leaked" video. Compare his idle animation to Little Mac, and they're leagues apart. Someone on GameFaqs also mentioned that Decidueye would be shown in 3/4 view rather than profile to showcase his face better.

 

[Cosmic77]

Regarding Pokémon newcomers, I think there's more pointing to a Gen VII Pokémon.

This Smash game started development somewhere in 2016. Since we still don't know anything about the next Pokémon game aside from, "Hey, it exists!" I doubt it had much work completed back then. Designs are subject to change, the popularity of the Pokémon is uncertain, and representing the character in Smash with such little info would be difficult; picking a Pokémon would be a huge gamble. Even if Sakurai held off until 2017, choosing a rep from Gen VIII that early seems so much more complicated than just settling for a popular and obvious Pokémon from Gen VII.

Besides, does Pokémon really need that Gen VIII promotion? If anything, Nintendo should be asking GameFreak to advertise Smash in Pokémon.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

There's still a good chance the Pokemon game comes out in 2019. No one ever mentions that.

Given that there's always been at least ~ a 3-year gap between the Gens, you're on to something.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I don't want to make some sort of arbitrary pattern from the last Smash game, but I want to draw some sort of conclusion. (So here I go making some kind of arbitrary pattern)

At this point 4 years ago, Greninja was very recently revealed to be a fighter for Smash Bros, which released in September 2014 in Japan for 3DS. By April 2014, XY was already out for about 6 months.

Smash Bros will probably release anywhere between September-November (I can see September to maybe coincide with Switch Online?). So we're roughly at the same time now as we were 4 years ago, where Smash was about to release, and Greninja was just revealed to represent XY, which came out about 5-6 months prior. We had experience with the games and the Pokemon. We know absolutely NOTHING right now about Gen VIII.

BUT Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon have been out for 5 months now. So, using that logic on when rosters are decided and which games to add from, USUM, and by extension, S&M, would be the games Sakurai is looking at for Pokemon.

 

[_Sheik]

Spring man's legs seem far too stiff in the "leaked" video. Compare his idle animation to Little Mac, and they're leagues apart. Someone on GameFaqs also mentioned that Decidueye would be shown in 3/4 view rather than profile to showcase his face better.

You can hardly see his face in most games unless you look really hard anyway.

Also I'm pretty sure Sakurai's team can rip the ARMS stage off from the game itself and that would be a problem how exactly?

 

[Wyoming]

Fake or not, let's not get into that same bull**** that was used to "discredit" the ESRB leak.

Nah man, it's beautiful. Let it happen naturally.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Corrin is literally the only one that makes sense there.

Roy was a last minute clone.

Robin wasn't an advertisement.

Pit didn't have a ****ing game in like a decade when he was added.

The argument for Pit is that Sakurai knew Uprising was his next project after Brawl, hence the redesign. You can easily make an argument Pit was redesigned and updated for that alone.

What better way to get people hyped for Uprising than by reminding them Kid Icarus was a thing?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

That leak while most certainly fake brings back so many memories.

The dude was probably hoping to get an Omini style ''Yes it was I all along!" chair spin or something.

 

[Senselessbreak]

So upon further analysis, heres what I determined:

It is modified Smash 4's engine and not Brawl. However the official game is very likely going to use a modified Smash 4 engine and should look very close to this, so I'd say this is more in favor of being not fake.

Springman's idle animation appears to be original. No other character hops side to side like that. My first suspicion was Little Mac, but you can tell they are clearly different. Also not a costume for Ryu either. Animations are completely original and pretty faithful to his game.

Next up is Springman's side aerial. Looks like Little Macs right? Its very similar, but appears to be slightly modified. Also the stage seems accurate to the actual stage from Arms

Decidueye doesn't exist on Pokken for Wii U and as far as I know the game hasn't been ripped. That still didn't stop the modding community from making a Decidueye skin on gamebanana. (Springman doesn't exist there).
https://gamebanana.com/skins/159939
Note that Decidueye is pretty different both color, and body structure in from this skin than the supposed leaks.
And its not a direct rip from Sun/Moon either, although the color pallet is more in line.
https://gamebanana.com/requests/7382

Then theres Ice Climbers...and yes they look like a direct Brawl rip, so I don't see much defense for them.


.....

So to sum everything up. Springman has original animations, potentially an original model, and potentially uses Little Mac's side aerial, but I might need a second opinion on that move.

Decidueye's model is not the ones from gamebanana, Sun/Moon or Pokken. Body structure is different, but stance is similar to Pokken. Color pallet matches Sun/Moon and much lighter than Pokken.

Ice Climbers are pretty much from Brawl. But then again so was Wario from brawl into Smash 4 so who knows anymore.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Cappy is honestly the thing that throws me off.

I don't even see Mario getting Cappy.

And you know why? They made it a point to show ''AND NOW LINK IS THE INFAMOUS NINTENDO SWITCH VERSION" in the Inklings trailer.

I'd think if Mario was getting Cappy? He'd have had Cappy on in that trailer as well, but nope. Just his normal old hat.

 

[CroonerMike]

And Omni curbstomped this.

Nice

Always be wary of allegedly “leaked" images that almost exclusively feature assets that are recycled. These Spring Stadium assets are ripped right out of ARMS. And obviously the Yoshi stage is also an old asset. And all of the character models. https://t.co/6lFw9Xz69x

— Omni Jacala @☁️ (@artsyomni) April 14, 2018

He's just jealous because people forgot about him and he wants to be in the lime light again.

 

[PF9]

Mario and its affiliates as Nintendo's flagship franchise will always combine to have more reps than other franchises in Smash. Here are my wishes for new Mario characters:

Main series: Birdo, Daisy, Paper Mario, Odyessy Mario (as separate from classic Mario), Captain Toad, Petey Pirhana, King Boo
DK sub series: Candy Kong, Dixie Kong, King K. Rool
Wario sub series: Classic Wario (as separate from "biker Wario"), Ashley, Waluigi (as a way of putting him in future Wario titles)
Yoshi sub series: Kamek

 

[viewtifulduck82]

If the spring stadium were ripped, how would you explain the animated crowd? Is that really something that would carry over from a rip? Assuming it could even be ripped seeing as multiple people have mentioned that ripping isn't possible from switch atm.

 

[Deleted member]

The argument for Pit is that Sakurai knew Uprising was his next project after Brawl, hence the redesign. You can easily make an argument Pit was redesigned and updated for that alone.

What better way to get people hyped for Uprising than by reminding them Kid Icarus was a thing?

Except he didn't.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Except he didn't.

Not intentionally maybe, but it still worked as advertisement to pump up Kid Icarus.

No ****, think of how many more people became aware of Kid Icarus due to Pit's inclusion.

 

[Icedragonadam]

It feels just like the ESRB leak. Looking through details and comparing them to previous games.

Smash Switch won't be a big difference graphically compared to Wii U. It'll look something similar to that picture with Mario. Although one thing throwing me off is the person not bothering to unpause and sow the Ice Climber's and Marios portrait at the bottom.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It feels just like the ESRB leak. Looking through details and comparing them to previous games.

Smash Switch won't be a big difference graphically compared to Wii U. It'll look something similar to that picture with Mario. Although one thing throwing me off is the lack of Mario's portrait at the bottom.

This is why I think the pictures could be fake, but the video isn't. But good point, too.