Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PsySmasher]

Early DBS? The entirety of DBS looks like fan animation until a few specific parts of the Tournament of Power.

I am one of like three people that actually thinks GT was better.

Fight me.

I mean... I know Super has its flaws but...
When I see someone say that GT is better than Super.
I get like this:

 

[Deleted member]

Kai is literally the biggest improvement/remake to any anime I've ever seen.
The voice acting is better, the writing is better, the animation is better, the pacing is better, the dialogue is better.

But comparing Z to DB is a little odd anyways cause Z is much more stereotypically shonen.

I do agree that Kai is better than og DBZ, but man the original Dragon Ball just felt so much more fun. It felt like all the characters mattered at least a bit. It could still get dramatic and tense when it need to be, but there was a good balance.
And hey, in the manga there’s no divide between Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball z

 

[ClaTheBae]

I mean... I know Super has its flaws but...
When I see someone say that GT is better than Super.
I get like this:
View attachment 180613

"has its flaws"? bro that show is bad. Some of the most inconsistent writing in the series.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I've enjoyed all the DB-related seasons I've seen, which includes all dubs(and only dubs), even the eh ones.

Anyway, in a week I'm not just going to pick up the game, but I'm grabbing a Wolf amiibo(or pre-ordering it to my house) as well as figuring out which guide to get. Either the jumbo size or the small size. The price difference is Ridley-sized. 40 dollars for hardcover or 15 dollar for the softcover... yeish.

 

[KMDP]

Jumping on the DBS discussion real quick. Im not a fan of how the DBS anime went (and heavily disliked GT; only like designs), but I have to say that the manga for DBS is going a lot better (with a new arc beginning after the tournament of power in the latest issue). They treated characters like Roshi a lot better than the anime did.

DB Super manga better than the anime?

The anime Tournament of Power was way, way better than the manga's version.

"They treated Roshi better" isn't a good reason that the manga is better, there's a reason "Ultra Instinct Roshi" is a meme in the community (it's stupid).

 

[GoeGoe]

Welp. Thanks for the correction.

As far as I know MM doesn't have any consistent way to warp out of a stage. He only does so when he beats a Robot Master or a level was already beat and reaches the end of it. Unless he has some whack Rush ability and/or I'm missing on some vital Mega Man lore, he probably wouldn't survive.

Proto Man's shield would probably handle it if Link's can, that's as much as I can guess for Mega Man characters in general.

You're most welcome.
Although Mega Man can beam out anytime he wants and not necessarily after stage or boss clear, yet the games made it seem so. In some games however (like Mega Man 7 for example), there was an Exit item that can be equipped to exit anytime. In 11 he does that whenever he wish. BUT, that's not the reason (although that was a good one), it's a whole different one. Can you guess? :D

 

[staindgrey]

GT is utter trash and only reason why people like it is nostalgia.

Disagree, because I don't have nostalgia for it. It came out when I was in my "I hate everything kiddy" phase and I didn't watch it in full until about three years ago.

It has flaws (no legitimate drama through the Black Star arc because Goku's overpowered, too much time spent on side stories, Super 17's arc coming and going before you realize it) but it's much more focused once Baby comes into the picture and feels like a natural continuation of DBZ with quality animation and creative character design.

But for Super fans, let's just compare GT and Super for a sec:

• New dragonballs that are "even stronger" than previous dragonballs to superficially up the stakes.
• Start the series with a ****ton of filler that no one asked for before getting to the actual interesting parts.
• Have your major villain take the body of Vegeta/Goku to make up for the huge power gap between them and everyone else.
• Make Goku almost too much of a centralized character at the expense of other character arcs.
• Make Gohan a ***** and Piccolo irrelevant. Also make Trunks important and forget Goten exists half the time.
• Bring 17 back and make him way stronger through very poorly explained means so he's important again because recycling him is easier than making someone new.
• Have a final main villain with no background or interesting character traits so Goku has something really strong to punch.

They're like the same thing and GT did it twenty years earlier.

 

[PsySmasher]

Smash news flash guys.

Apparently the fastest newcomer in Smash Ultimate is actually Ridley, who's tied with Charizard for the 9th fastest character period.

Piranha Plant is officially the slowest character in the game, even slower than Incineroar.

I might make a thread on ground/air speed changes (like I did w/ weights) later if I feel like it.

You may resume your non-Smash related discussion.

 

[MainJPW]

This became the anime discussion thread real quick.

DB Super manga better than the anime?

The anime Tournament of Power was way, way better than the manga's version.

"They treated Roshi better" isn't a good reason that the manga is better, there's a reason "Ultra Instinct Roshi" is a meme in the community (it's stupid).

To this day I still hate the decision of one-shotting Kuririn and Tenshinhan in the manga yet giving Roshi these amazing feats when in Dragon Ball this guy had retired and admitted that he couldn’t keep up with the new generation. Roshi’s great and I like his fighting style, but...really?

 

[Deleted member]

Disagree, because I don't have nostalgia for it. It came out when I was in my "I hate everything kiddy" phase and I didn't watch it in full until about three years ago.

It has flaws (no legitimate drama through the Black Star arc because Goku's overpowered, too much time spent on side stories, Super 17's arc coming and going before you realize it) but it's much more focused once Baby comes into the picture and feels like a natural continuation of DBZ with quality animation and creative character design.

But for Super fans, let's just compare GT and Super for a sec:

• New dragonballs that are "even stronger" than previous dragonballs to superficially up the stakes.
• Start the series with a ****ton of filler that no one asked for before getting to the actual interesting parts.
• Have your major villain take the body of Vegeta/Goku to make up for the huge power gap between them and everyone else.
• Make Goku almost too much of a centralized character at the expense of other character arcs.
• Make Gohan a ***** and Piccolo irrelevant. Also make Trunks important and forget Goten exists half the time.
• Bring 17 back and make him way stronger through very poorly explained means so he's important again because recycling him is easier than making someone new.
• Have a final main villain with no background or interesting character traits so Goku has something really strong to punch.

They're like the same thing and GT did it twenty years earlier.

Oh, you’re post reminded me that Jiren... exists. I guess that goes to show just how boring, one-note and forgetttable he is. At least Omega Shenron had an ok design.

 

[ClaTheBae]

I've enjoyed all the DB-related seasons I've seen, which includes all dubs(and only dubs), even the eh ones.

Anyway, in a week I'm not just going to pick up the game, but I'm grabbing a Wolf amiibo(or pre-ordering it to my house) as well as figuring out which guide to get. Either the jumbo size or the small size. The price difference is Ridley-sized. 40 dollars for hardcover or 15 dollar for the softcover... yeish.

The gamestop near me is doing a midnight release with snacks and drinks and a small tourney of sorts. ****'s cash.

Speaking of, a guy I play smash with at school got to play the full version of ultimate at some local tournament thing (they got a rom) and he told me some stuff about a few characters if you guys are interested.

 

[PeridotGX]

1. WFT tried that invincibility tactic and got clapped.
2. Maxwell has never summoned a Warp Star (to my knowledge, let alone an exact replica) before. Not saying he can't do it. But for the sake of what the character has been shown to do, he wouldn't be able to summon a Warp Star.
3. NLF. It's like saying Ganondorf can only die to holy weapons (and therefore, him getting ******* atomized won't kill him) or that Saitama can literally one punch anything. Since Maxwell has never fought Galeem itself (or even Mario, Link, Kirby, etc, canonically), we can only use consistent feats or statements to determine whether he could've actually done that.

1. WFT's Invinciblility attack (if that's even what they intended) only lasts a few frames. Maxwell's invincible adjective lasts until he wants it to end and makes him invulnerable to everything (such as Black Holes, and even God).
2. For most characters I would agree with you on that. But Scribblenauts's whole gimmick is that you can make anything, and unlimited's Object Editor made it bossible for Maxwell to make literally anything. So he could make a warp star, or a simmilar thing using adjectives (Flying Supersonic Teleporting Rideable Car or something)
3. In Unlimited, gone is capable of destroying literally any interactible object, including God. I assume Galeem isn't immune to that. (Also in the Wii U version of Unlimited there are actually Mario and Zelda characters present by default so he can battle Mario and Link).

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Smash news flash guys.

Apparently the fastest newcomer in Smash Ultimate is actually Ridley, who's tied with Charizard for the 9th fastest character period.

Piranha Plant is officially the slowest character in the game, even slower than Incineroar.

I might make a thread on ground/air speed changes (like I did w/ weights) later if I feel like it.

You may resume your non-Smash related discussion.

Wait. How the feck is PP slow?

He looked fast in his trailer?

Yikes.

 

[RandomAce]

How do people have information on Pirahna Plant?

Is it in the files after all or what?

 

[PsySmasher]

How do people have information on Pirahna Plant?

Is it in the files after all or what?

Yeah. Piranha Plant's stats are in the files, along with all the other characters.

 

[KMDP]

I've enjoyed all the DB-related seasons I've seen, which includes all dubs(and only dubs), even the eh ones.

I'd need to see Dragon Ball GT again to form an honest, informed opinion of it. Because all I saw of it were... early 2000s era fansubs... *shudder*

Many years ago, my sister bought a set of bootleg CDs off of Ebay which had all of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT and the movies on them (all in Japanese, and very few of them were good quality), and this is how I watched Dragon Ball, the movies and DBGT.

*memories of Vegeta's f-bomb laden rant in Movie 13's fansub*

The final four episodes of GT weren't even subbed.

That aside, I actually own two of the Big Green dub DVDs (Lord Slug and Tree of Might).

My sister and I were among the unfortunate people who never got to see anything beyond the Trunks VS Cell fight (and even then, she missed the last episode of it) in an official capacity when it was originally airing. I think it had something to do with Cartoon Network changing how it was broadcast to the UK, meaning we lost access to it.

Oh lord, memories...

After the Trunks VS Cell fight, the only things Dragon Ball I experienced beyond that was a snippet of Gohan VS Cell (in a bar), Vegeta's Majin transformation (a clip downloaded from a site, I believe it was Pojo.com?), and the video games.

I first experienced the Buu Saga through Budokai 2 and 3 (technically also Final Bout, I guess).

 

[Deleted member]

The gamestop near me is doing a midnight release with snacks and drinks and a small tourney of sorts. ****'s cash.

Speaking of, a guy I play smash with at school got to play the full version of ultimate at some local tournament thing (they got a rom) and he told me some stuff about a few characters if you guys are interested.

Well we need to get back to discussing smash so do tell what he said.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Also for this GT vs Super debate.

GT didn't introduce a single character or characters that comes close to the greatness that is Beerus and Whis.

Thus GT is poopy mcpoop fartface.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Smash news flash guys.

Apparently the fastest newcomer in Smash Ultimate is actually Ridley, who's tied with Charizard for the 9th fastest character period.

Piranha Plant is officially the slowest character in the game, even slower than Incineroar.

I might make a thread on ground/air speed changes (like I did w/ weights) later if I feel like it.

You may resume your non-Smash related discussion.

This is ungodly amounts of sad. I really wanted him to be good. Hopefully he has something stupid to make up for it.

 

[KiwiK]

You're most welcome.
Although Mega Man can beam out anytime he wants and not necessarily after stage or boss clear, yet the games made it seem so. In some games however (like Mega Man 7 for example), there was an Exit item that can be equipped to exit anytime. In 11 he does that whenever he wish. BUT, that's not the reason (although that was a good one), it's a whole different one. Can you guess? :D

I distinctively remember the Exit in MM7 only making you leave the stage when you've already beat the boss. Otherwise I'm clueless about other games since I've pretty much stopped after 7.

Edit: Actually Mega Man X8 is the last overall Mega Man game I've played (was pretty good), and apparently that one also lets you exit regardless of clearing the stage. Since I haven't played that in like, 5 years, my lack of memory should be justified.

 

[Deleted member]

Also for this GT vs Super debate.

GT didn't introduce a single character or characters that comes close to the greatness that is Beerus and Whis.

Thus GT is poopy mcpoop fartface.

Technically Beerus and Whis were introduced before super. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re really cool characters though.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Technically Beerus and Whis were introduced before super. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re really cool characters though.

Were they? Maybe I'm forgetting where but I just remember them from Super?

 

[SonicMario]

Disagree, because I don't have nostalgia for it. It came out when I was in my "I hate everything kiddy" phase and I didn't watch it in full until about three years ago.

It has flaws (no legitimate drama through the Black Star arc because Goku's overpowered, too much time spent on side stories, Super 17's arc coming and going before you realize it) but it's much more focused once Baby comes into the picture and feels like a natural continuation of DBZ with quality animation and creative character design.

But for Super fans, let's just compare GT and Super for a sec:

• New dragonballs that are "even stronger" than previous dragonballs to superficially up the stakes.
• Start the series with a ****ton of filler that no one asked for before getting to the actual interesting parts.
• Have your major villain take the body of Vegeta/Goku to make up for the huge power gap between them and everyone else.
• Make Goku almost too much of a centralized character at the expense of other character arcs.
• Make Gohan a ***** and Piccolo irrelevant. Also make Trunks important and forget Goten exists half the time.
• Bring 17 back and make him way stronger through very poorly explained means so he's important again because recycling him is easier than making someone new.
• Have a final main villain with no background or interesting character traits so Goku has something really strong to punch.

They're like the same thing and GT did it twenty years earlier.

One thing I didn't quite get with Super/Resurrection F is it's brought up Frieza never trained apparently?

Which is odd to me. Frieza just born with the power and fighting skills he had? And suddenly a good amount of training and he's stronger then Majin Buu and gains a new "Golden" form? Feels more just like they had to grasp for straws for reasons to bring Frieza back and for him to put up more then a fight then one episode of "AHAHAHA FILTHY SAIYANS I HAVE RETURNED TO HAVE MY REV-" *disintegrated immediately by either Goku or Vegeta*

 

[Deleted member]

Were they? Maybe I'm forgetting where but I just remember them from Super?

They were introduced in Battle of Gods. 2013, 2 years prior to super.

 

[RandomAce]

Yeah. Piranha Plant's stats are in the files, along with all the other characters.

Pirahna Plant seems a lot more done than I thought.

Like, to have what seems to be it’s finalized stats be in the game means that PP is already done and their just waiting to release him.

 

[MainJPW]

Were they? Maybe I'm forgetting where but I just remember them from Super?

Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. Those were Z movies.

 

[Wyoming]

Disagree, because I don't have nostalgia for it. It came out when I was in my "I hate everything kiddy" phase and I didn't watch it in full until about three years ago.

It has flaws (no legitimate drama through the Black Star arc because Goku's overpowered, too much time spent on side stories, Super 17's arc coming and going before you realize it) but it's much more focused once Baby comes into the picture and feels like a natural continuation of DBZ with quality animation and creative character design.

But for Super fans, let's just compare GT and Super for a sec:

• New dragonballs that are "even stronger" than previous dragonballs to superficially up the stakes.
• Start the series with a ****ton of filler that no one asked for before getting to the actual interesting parts.
• Have your major villain take the body of Vegeta/Goku to make up for the huge power gap between them and everyone else.
• Make Goku almost too much of a centralized character at the expense of other character arcs.
• Make Gohan a ***** and Piccolo irrelevant. Also make Trunks important and forget Goten exists half the time.
• Bring 17 back and make him way stronger through very poorly explained means so he's important again because recycling him is easier than making someone new.
• Have a final main villain with no background or interesting character traits so Goku has something really strong to punch.

They're like the same thing and GT did it twenty years earlier.

The introduction of power levels really ruined Dragon Ball's growth. It collapsed at the Buu arc when nobody but Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan could keep up at the time.

FighterZ' idea of their full power being suppressed is cool. It means characters like Piccolo, Tien, and Krillin could actually win by their knowledge and strategies. Sadly it still focused mostly on Goku and Vegeta in terms of story.

 

[PsySmasher]

Were they? Maybe I'm forgetting where but I just remember them from Super?

Technically, they were introduced in Battle of the Gods, which is a Dragon Ball Z movie.

But that along with Resurrection F, were later adapted into Super.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I forget that Super sort of wasted time retelling a movie as a Saga.

So welp. I guess they're technically Z characters, so lol.

I guess Super and GT are pretty equal in the ''I don't care about any of these newbies." for me at least.

 

[Ura]

Disagree, because I don't have nostalgia for it. It came out when I was in my "I hate everything kiddy" phase and I didn't watch it in full until about three years ago.

It has flaws (no legitimate drama through the Black Star arc because Goku's overpowered, too much time spent on side stories, Super 17's arc coming and going before you realize it) but it's much more focused once Baby comes into the picture and feels like a natural continuation of DBZ with quality animation and creative character design.

But for Super fans, let's just compare GT and Super for a sec:

• New dragonballs that are "even stronger" than previous dragonballs to superficially up the stakes.
• Start the series with a ****ton of filler that no one asked for before getting to the actual interesting parts.
• Have your major villain take the body of Vegeta/Goku to make up for the huge power gap between them and everyone else.
• Make Goku almost too much of a centralized character at the expense of other character arcs.
• Make Gohan a ***** and Piccolo irrelevant. Also make Trunks important and forget Goten exists half the time.
• Bring 17 back and make him way stronger through very poorly explained means so he's important again because recycling him is easier than making someone new.
• Have a final main villain with no background or interesting character traits so Goku has something really strong to punch.

They're like the same thing and GT did it twenty years earlier.

I couldn't agree more with this. Really dumb how people praise Super while bashing GT for things they liked about the former.

That being said, I think both weren't that great but GT had Bebi and the Shadow Dragons which is why I like it better. That and Omega looked the part for a final villain.

 

[ClaTheBae]

Well we need to get back to discussing smash so do tell what he said.

Well, the dude I know who entered got 4th. They had some pretty good Louisiana Smash players there as far as I know.
Firstly, I know the tournament was won by a K. Rool. No shockers, but he's amazing. Everything about him feels right and the only disadvantage he seem to have is his size.
Also the guy that I know picked DK and said that if you liked him in smash 4, he's gonna feel a lot better now. Ding dong isn't a kill confirm but it does still work for racking up damage.
Mewtwo is also still really good, and still a top 10 character like he was in sm4sh.
Also, there's a lot of combos in this game. People were worried that with balloon knockback that we wouldn't have combos, but the speed of the character's allows numerous follow ups.
Most of this is stuff we already know but now you heard it from some dude in the thread

 

[Royalty1702]

1. WFT's Invinciblility attack (if that's even what they intended) only lasts a few frames. Maxwell's invincible adjective lasts until he wants it to end and makes him invulnerable to everything (such as Black Holes, and even God).
2. For most characters I would agree with you on that. But Scribblenauts's whole gimmick is that you can make anything, and unlimited's Object Editor made it possible for Maxwell to make literally anything. So he could make a warp star, or a simmilar thing using adjectives (Flying Supersonic Teleporting Rideable Car or something)
3. In Unlimited, gone is capable of destroying literally any interactible object, including God. I assume Galeem isn't immune to that. (Also in the Wii U version of Unlimited there are actually Mario and Zelda characters present by default so he can battle Mario and Zelda).

1. Irrelevant. Invincibility is invincibility. Take the example, say there are two people, Person A and Person B. Person A can make himself invincible for a few seconds, while Person B can be invincible for as long as he wants. Now, let's say, I punch both of them and both of them activated their ability, who gets hurt the most? Neither of them because invincibility is invincibility, no matter what the time length is. Same thing applies here.
2. "For most characters I would agree with you on that. But Scribblenauts's whole gimmick is that you can make anything, and unlimited's Object Editor made it possible for Maxwell to make literally anything." So, he made a Warp Star in this game? If not, why are you saying "anything"?
3. "In Unlimited, gone is capable of destroying literally any interactible object, including God." What does "God" mean here? How powerful is "God"? "(Also in the Wii U version of Unlimited there are actually Mario and Zelda characters present by default so he can battle Mario and Zelda)" But they are just the Scribblenauts version of some characters. Also, what makes this crossover canon?

 

[Deleted member]

One thing I don’t like about a lot of later Dragon Ball stuff is that they just don’t explain how these new characters are so strong. Like, how is Jiren so powerful? How is Hit so powerful?
also I guess were DragonBallboards now

 

[T3Z3R1]

Yeah. Piranha Plant's stats are in the files, along with all the other characters.

Why am I not surprised? Dataminers did really found the piranha plant's reference in the files. after all.

 

[praline]

Smash news flash guys.

Apparently the fastest newcomer in Smash Ultimate is actually Ridley, who's tied with Charizard for the 9th fastest character period.

Piranha Plant is officially the slowest character in the game, even slower than Incineroar.

I might make a thread on ground/air speed changes (like I did w/ weights) later if I feel like it.

You may resume your non-Smash related discussion.

How do they even know Pirahna Plant’s stats when it won’t even be playable until like February?

 

[Deleted member]

Wait what!? What's this about, Scott?

Either DaybreakHorizon or Nekoo might know possibly, but from all I've heard was that

Spoiler: UH I THINK SPOILER?

Nobody is going to be 100% satisfied with the ending, or some **** like that.

 

[PsySmasher]

How do they even know Pirahna Plant’s stats when it won’t even be playable until like February?

Piranha Plant was pretty far in development when he was revealed. That might explain why his stats are finalized already.

 

[Deleted member]

Smash news flash guys.

Apparently the fastest newcomer in Smash Ultimate is actually Ridley, who's tied with Charizard for the 9th fastest character period.

Piranha Plant is officially the slowest character in the game, even slower than Incineroar.

I might make a thread on ground/air speed changes (like I did w/ weights) later if I feel like it.

You may resume your non-Smash related discussion.

Ridley is a fast killer.
He needs the speed to hunt his prey.

 

[staindgrey]

One thing I didn't quite get with Super/Resurrection F is it's brought up Frieza never trained apparently?

Which is odd to me. Frieza just born with the power and fighting skills he had? And suddenly a good amount of training and he's stronger then Majin Buu and gains a new "Golden" form? Feels more just like they had to grasp for straws for reasons to bring Frieza back and for him to put up more then a fight then one episode of "AHAHAHA FILTHY SAIYANS I HAVE RETURNED TO HAVE MY REV-" *disintegrated immediately by either Goku or Vegeta*

This is what bothers me about Super that I feel isn't brought up enough, and it's why I prefer GT as my post-Z canon.

GT, despite its flaws, had creators that seemed to think like fans do in terms of how power scaling should work, and they told a story grounded in the Saiyan and Dragonball lore already presented in DB and DBZ.

Super gave us some great new concepts to expand the lore, but it also justified the new divine ki thing by giving everyone the ability, apparently, and really belittling the process of gaining strength that used to be the story's whole appeal.

Frieza needs to fight SSB? He trains for four months and becomes gold.
Gohan needs to be relevant for the ToP? He trains for a night with Piccolo.
17? He's on an island somewhere training by himself and has scaled appropriately with the people who fought Majin Buu despite, uh. Being an android.
Trunks? Well, we just really wanted him to be a character and didn't have any creative ways of doing that. So. "Super Saiyan Rage" or whatever and a spirit bomb sword thing with all the power of about fifty starving people.

There are many times in the show when it reads like fan fiction, honestly. Which is unfortunate considering there's so much to like when you force yourself past the stupid stuff.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Either DaybreakHorizon or Nekoo might know possibly, but from all I've heard was that

Spoiler: UH I THINK SPOILER?

Nobody is going to be 100% satisfied with the ending, or some **** like that.

Oh boy. Here we go again on Nomura's wild ride if true.