Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MrReyes96]

Outside of Melee with Marth and Roy, have we ever gotten more than 1 rep for a new series introduced in that same game? I don't think we have, but I'm trying to rattle my brain.

I can’t think of any no, but not since then have had a nintendo series blow up in popularity like this
Which is even more impressive considering splatoon was only on the Wii U.

How many other characters people are requesting have their own amiibo?

Their own plush?

Their own story mode where they are heavily involved?

I think they have a much better chance the more I think about it.

 

[Bowserlick]

There's a large middle ground between "having the dog and duck work together" and "give Mach Rider random superpowers he never had as his defining characteristic."

The dog and duck didn't team up with each other. The dog collected the duck's dead body. And now best friends they have summoning powers of other video games.

Let us talk about another racing character. Did Captain Falcon ignite his body parts on fire in his original game, because he has pyromancy in Smash.

 

[ErenJager]

So far i've only seen the Inklings as the appeared in Splatoon, not Splatoon 2.
Going just on that little information, and making the assumption they won't have their Splatoon 2 designs. (Which they technically could in reality, but like I said i'm assuming)
I don't really think it's likely the Octolings will be playable since they were more of staple in Splatoon 2 rather then Splatoon 1.

I do think it's not outside the realm of possibility for Octoling costumes to be DLC for the Inklings... sort of like an Alph and Olimar deal.

 

[Opossum]

The dog and duck didn't team up with each other. The dog collected the duck's dead body. And now best friends they have summoning powers of other video games.

Let us talk about another racing character. Did Captain Falcon ignite his body parts on fire in his original game, because he has pyromancy in Smash.

Captain Falcon also didn't have obvious moveset potential so his fighting style was based around his vehicle's movement. Fire is associated with high speed, due to friction and heat and whatnot.

Imbuing one's punches with fire to denote their speed is a far cry from "make a character into an inorganic shape shifting Tin Man."

Mach Rider has more than enough to work with without having to resort to nonsensical departures.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I just don't see what Callie & Marie can add. They're REALLY popular, but...what is their moveset and how does it relate to Splatoon, because the two main things they are known for are hosting and for music.

You can't make ''hosting" a thing a moveset is about and music seems like something Sakurai would use for another more fitting series.

That's the problem with Splatoon as important it's success is to modern Nintendo. Legit, much of it's core gameplay at this time and it's themes are represented in Inklings alone.

I honestly see Sakurai using Callie and Marie as the new codecs.

 

[Hinata]

Outside of Melee with Marth and Roy, have we ever gotten more than 1 rep for a new series introduced in that same game? I don't think we have, but I'm trying to rattle my brain.

I just looked it up to be certain, and unless you count Mario, Luigi, Pikachu, and Jigglypuff in 64, then no, we haven't had more than 1 rep for a new series introduced in the same game.

 

[Deleted member]

The only "power" Mach Rider should have is the power to explode and reform. Just like what happens when they run into an obstacle.

Other than that, all Mach Rider really needs are things like a machine gun, a knife, and a chain (no in-game basis, but come on...you know using a chain like Ghost Rider would be badass), as well as the Mach Bike itself.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I just don't see what Callie & Marie can add. They're REALLY popular, but...what is their moveset and how does it relate to Splatoon, because the two main things they are known for are hosting and for music.

You can't make ''hosting" a thing a moveset is about and music seems like something Sakurai would use for another more fitting series.

That's the problem with Splatoon as important it's success is to modern Nintendo. Legit, much of it's core gameplay at this time and it's themes are represented in Inklings alone.

I honestly see Sakurai using Callie and Marie as the new codecs.

they're also like secret agents right? I'd assume they'd have weapons training, maybe they could use physical attacks too like punches and kicks.

 

[Ridel]

When considering more characters for a franchise you have to consider what moveset they could use and how it can coincide with their franchise/character. Obviously there are some exceptions to this rule but I think it's very important thing to consider with Callie and Marie. The base Inkling can represent everything in Splatoon so well that you almost do not need C&M to be playable cause you cover all the grounds with one character.

 

[MrReyes96]

I just don't see what Callie & Marie can add. They're REALLY popular, but...what is their moveset and how does it relate to Splatoon, because the two main things they are known for are hosting and for music.

You can't make ''hosting" a thing a moveset is about and music seems like something Sakurai would use for another more fitting series.

That's the problem with Splatoon as important it's success is to modern Nintendo. Legit, much of it's core gameplay at this time and it's themes are represented in Inklings alone.

I honestly see Sakurai using Callie and Marie as the new codecs.

Well like I mentioned we don’t know if inkling will use ALL of the splatoon weapons. I could see them being semi-clones as far as turning into squids. But they could have movesets based on whatever inkling doesn’t
Marie could use a sniper like she does in the splatoon 2 story mode for example.
And yes I could see them being new codecs but like I said with the other things pearl and marina can do whatever they do as far as other smash appearances other than playable.
Hell they could even be a tag team like Ice Climbers. I just can’t think of more iconic Nintendo characters from the past couple years that compare to them.

 

[Bowserlick]

Captain Falcon also didn't have obvious moveset potential so his fighting style was based around his vehicle's movement. Fire is associated with high speed, due to friction and heat and whatnot.

Imbuing one's punches with fire to denote their speed is a far cry from "make a character into an inorganic shape shifting Tin Man."

Mach Rider has more than enough to work with without having to resort to nonsensical departures.

I clearly demonstrated that my idea is not outside of what Sakurai has done in the past.

Mach Rider's essential trait is gear shift in his/her toy and game. A gear shift changes how the machine functions.

Therefore, Mach Rider also shifting body armor to make contraptions is a nice update that fits with the theme. Just like the fire theme created for Captain Falcon because of 'friction whether from high speed or a nipple chafing against tight fabric.'

 

[Tree Gelbman]

they're also like secret agents right? I'd assume they'd have weapons training, maybe they could use physical attacks too like punches and kicks.

Yes, but that's not exactly what they're known for in their series.

Fashionistas, comic hosting, and singing. That's what they're all about. We see other sides occasionally, but that's what their popularity is based off of those three things.

One isn't moveset potential, the other is perfect for the new codecs, fashion if given a moveset would most likely go to Style Savy, and singing and music is more Rhythm Heaven or a similar IP.

 

[Staarih]

The Octolings aren’t really a staple in either game yet (besides the Octarians in the single player campaign) since the DLC for them for Splatoon 2 hasn’t come out yet. Maybe after that they’ll become a staple of Splatoon... but at that point they would make for a good unique rep for Splatoon.

 

[MrReyes96]

All of this depends on how Inklings will work or what weapons they use. But like I said they could easily represent other weapon types like the roller and sniper. Along with some psychical moves like dancing that represent their idol side as well as their agent side.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I just can’t think of more iconic Nintendo characters from the past couple years that compare to them.

Isabelle says hello. Even as popular as Callie and Marie are? I'd wager more popularity for her and more merch and more merch sold has been sold about Isabelle from Animal Crossing.

Isabelle's turn to fame was so fast. I'm pretty sure she was a big hit before New Leaf was already out.

She was and still is a huge deal. In no time she was the face of Animal Crossing, she was in Mario Kart, had plushes, statutes and other toys, was used in Japanese advertisements.

Again not knocking Callie and Marie because I can't deny people really really really like them and Nintendo knows that, but I just don't think they're important enough to Splatoon to be anything more than assist trophy/codec. Because that's where the things that made them so likable truly shine.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Yes, but that's not exactly what they're known for in their series.

Fashionistas, comic hosting, and singing. That's what they're all about. We see other sides occasionally, but that's what their popularity is based off of those three things.

One isn't moveset potential, the other is perfect for the new codecs, fashion if given a moveset would most likely go to Style Savy, and singing and music is more Rhythm Heaven or a similar IP.

I mean I guess but smash is full of characters that aren't known for fighting yet they're still in the game fighting.

 

[MrReyes96]

Isabelle says hello. Even as popular as Callie and Marie are? I'd wager more popularity for her and more merch and more merch sold has been sold about Isabelle from Animal Crossing.

Isabelle's turn to fame was so fast. I'm pretty sure she was a big hit before New Leaf was already out.

She was and still is a huge deal. In no time she was the face of Animal Crossing, she was in Mario Kart, had plushes, statutes and other toys, was used in Japanese advertisements.

Again not knocking Callie and Marie because I can't deny people really really really like them and Nintendo knows that, but I just don't think they're important enough to Splatoon to be anything more than assist trophy/codec. Because that's where the things that made them so likable truly shine.

Yes obviously Isabelle but I didn’t count her because she’s already an assist trophy and I already expect her to be a newcomer. Which is what led me to thinking of Callie and Marie considering it’s a similar situation.

 

[ErenJager]

The Octolings aren’t really a staple in either game yet (besides the Octarians in the single player campaign) since the DLC for them for Splatoon 2 hasn’t come out yet. Maybe after that they’ll become a staple of Splatoon... but at that point they would make for a good unique rep for Splatoon.

The Octo Expansion... will be a staple of Splatoon 2, if it hasn't become one yet.

 

[Lyndis_]

I honestly just don't see the point of Callie and Marie.

They're absolutely no different from general Inklings in any way but appearance. Yes, they're agents, but so is the protagonist/the player character of both Splatoon games.

I understand why people like the characters (I like the characters!) but they don't really serve any purpose in Smash as playable characters that the Inklings don't already. I think codec style cameos on a Splatoon stage and/or Assist Trophies would be most fitting.

We could even have a K.K Slider thing with them on a Splatoon stage, where they have a Splatfest show in the background on certain days.

 

[Ridel]

I honestly just don't see the point of Callie and Marie.

They're absolutely no different from general Inklings in any way but appearance. Yes, they're agents, but so is the protagonist/the player character of both Splatoon games.

I understand why people like the characters (I like the characters!) but they don't really serve anay purpose in Smash that the Inklings don't already. I think codec style cameos on a Splatoon stage or as Assist Trophies would be most fitting.

This a million. You can compare Splatoon to Pikmin in this matter. Sure you could add another Pikmin character, but you already have all you need with Olimar, he just covers the franchise as a whole on his own. I feel the Inklings are the same thing.

 

[MrReyes96]

I honestly just don't see the point of Callie and Marie.

They're absolutely no different from general Inklings in any way but appearance. Yes, they're agents, but so is the protagonist/the player character of both Splatoon games.

I understand why people like the characters (I like the characters!) but they don't really serve anay purpose in Smash that the Inklings don't already. I think codec style cameos on a Splatoon stage or as Assist Trophies would be most fitting.

I don’t see the point of Roy and Lucina when we already have Marth
But I recognize they have fans and people like their series being represented
And splatoon is more popular and relevant than more than half of the franchises already in smash, I think Sakurai knows that and inkling being the first reveal shows that.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yeah, Callie and Marie are some of my favorite Nintendo characters of recent years. I love the cut of their jib, but ultimately they're pretty redundant.

And nothing says you have to get EVERY Splatoon weapon represented either. As long as the core mechanics and gameplay is represented well that's all that important.

I mean lord knows Bayonetta's got a ton of weapons at her disposal, none of which are in her moveset except for her guns and gun heels. And yet the core gameplay of Bayonetta is all there.

 

[MrReyes96]

Yeah, Callie and Marie are some of my favorite Nintendo characters of recent years. I love the cut of their jib, but ultimately they're pretty redundant.

And nothing says you have to get EVERY Splatoon weapon represented either. As long as the core mechanics and gameplay is represented well that's all that important.

I mean lord knows Bayonetta's got a ton of weapons at her disposal, none of which are in her moveset except for her guns and gun heels. And yet the core gameplay of Bayonetta is all there.

As far as representing weapons we just have to wait and see how inklings play. But even if we had 3 characters with different weapons there are still tons more they can do.

Bayonetta is different it’s not a Nintendo franchise so yeah her moveset is enough. More than enough going by the tier list.

 

[Lyndis_]

I don’t see the point of Roy and Lucina when we already have Marth
But I recognize they have fans and people like their series being represented
And splatoon is more popular and relevant than more than half of the franchises already in smash, I think Sakurai knows that and inkling being the first reveal shows that.

Lucina and Roy were added as clones, if that happened again why would it be Callie/Marie over a character like the Octolings, which are actually seen/fought in both of the games and are going to be playable in Splatoon 2?

That about Splatoon (at least the popularity) simply isn't true at all as far as I know, and even if it were it means absolutely nothing for Callie & Marie as characters since we're already getting representation for the series in Smash and it doesn't fix the redundancy issue.

They exist as primarily background entertainment to the games and I don't see the purpose of making them playable instead of representing them more truly to their actual appearance & purpose in Splatoon.

If we need a second Splatoon character for whatever reason, the Octolings work perfectly fine for now if you ask me. They'd even cover over the antagonist category fairly easily.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Bayonetta is not different.

Just because she's third party (practically second party since literally only one game of hers is allowed to be multi-plat) doesn't change the way Sakurai works on a moveset.

I mean there's also a lot that can be said about Street Fighter that Ryu can't say. Are we gonna add Chun Li, Guile, Blanka, Cammy, Zangief, Bison and the rest of the Street Fighter II cast?

There's literally no reason to cram EVERYTHING about Splatoon in just for the sake of another rep, when you can simply wait for the series to age and at some point? I'm sure someone or something will come up that makes it get that second representative.

But simply adding in another popular character/characters from the series and throwing weapons belonging to the Inklings on them is lazy and does a disservice to them and who they are.

 

[MrReyes96]

Lucina and Roy were added as clones, if that happened again why would it be Callie/Marie over a character like the Octolings, which are actually seen/fought in both of the games and are going to be playable in Splatoon 2?

That about Splatoon (at least the popularity) simply isn't true at all, and even if it were it means absolutely nothing for Callie & Marie as characters since we're already getting representation for the series in Smash and it doesn't fix the redundancy issue.

Because Callie and Marie are much more important than octolings and are actual characters. Octoloings can easily be a costume.

So you don’t think it’s extremely popular I don’t understand, it’s the most popular new character IP from Nintendo in over a decade, it’s been relevant consistently since it launched.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Callie and Marie will be an AT or stage element. They won't be playable,

 

[Morbi]

Yeah, Callie and Marie are some of my favorite Nintendo characters of recent years. I love the cut of their jib, but ultimately they're pretty redundant.

And nothing says you have to get EVERY Splatoon weapon represented either. As long as the core mechanics and gameplay is represented well that's all that important.

I mean lord knows Bayonetta's got a ton of weapons at her disposal, none of which are in her moveset except for her guns and gun heels. And yet the core gameplay of Bayonetta is all there.

The development team does not just go through a checklist to "represent" moves, they are trying to determine what would make a unique play-style and like it or not, Splatoon has plenty to make up a second move-set... EASILY. Not even close to a problem. There is nothing redundant about their concept relative to any other similar character archetype in Smash.

What does Greninja offer that Sheik (or anyone else) does not? He cannot hold his shuriken and he has that sick d-air that bounces him. Other than that, almost everything is the same as what some other character offers. Not only that, but Sakurai had free reign to do what he wanted and still played it safe. To that end, Callie and Marie make a lot of sense ESPECIALLY if "Arms is too young" or whatever nonsense.

 

[MrReyes96]

Bayonetta is not different.

Just because she's third party (practically second party since literally only one game of hers is allowed to be multi-plat) doesn't change the way Sakurai works on a moveset.

I mean there's also a lot that can be said about Street Fighter that Ryu can't say. Are we gonna add Chun Li, Guile, Blanka, Cammy, Zangief, Bison and the rest of the Street Fighter II cast?

There's literally no reason to cram EVERYTHING about Splatoon in just for the sake of another rep, when you can simply wait for the series to age and at some point? I'm sure someone or something will come up that makes it get that second representative.

But simply adding in another popular character/characters from the series and throwing weapons belonging to the Inklings on them is lazy and does a disservice to them and who they are.

Well they’re not going to add another bayonetta character is my point, same with street fighter. It’s a Nintendo first game

And again you wouldn’t be cramming everything, splatoon has way too many weapons to do that.

And they are shown to be fighters it’s not a disservice to their characters at all.

 

[Superyoshiom]

If I had to make one of those 30 character rosters:







Rationale:
These are the characters I feel best represent Nintendo in the current era(given what we have so far in Smash, because otherwise I'd add Inkling onto the roster as well). Out of curiosity I wanted to see how many characters came from each game, so here it is:

64: 11 (I omitted Jigglypuff as while she was popular when the game came out but not as much today)

Melee: 8

Brawl: 8

Wii U: 4

 

[Deleted member]

What does Greninja offer that Sheik (or anyone else) does not? He cannot hold his shuriken

For starters, Greninja actually has shuriken. :V

Sheik uses needles.

lrn2ninja

 

[Tree Gelbman]

What do the other weapons even matter for though?

They all ultimately in the end do the same thing in the game. They cover turf and take out your enemies so you can win a match.

And that's what's important to represent with Splatoon. The mess you make to win and how the weapons react to your enemies.

Adding more weapons to another character is only gonna do the same thing Inklings do.

 

[Morbi]

If I had to make one of those 30 character rosters:







Rationale:
These are the characters I feel best represent Nintendo in the current era(given what we have so far in Smash, because otherwise I'd add Inkling onto the roster as well). Out of curiosity I wanted to see how many characters came from each game, so here it is:

64: 11 (I omitted Jigglypuff as while she was popular when the game came out but not as much today)

Melee: 8 (I omitted Shiek since while she's a popular Zelda character, she only appeared in one game. Ice

Ha ha ha, Game and Watch best represents Nintendo in the current era? Fam, there are opinions, and then there are delusions. Game and Watch did not best represent Nintendo when he was actually relevant.

 

[MrReyes96]

What do the other weapons even matter for though?

They all ultimately in the end do the same thing in the game. They cover turf and take out your enemies so you can win a match.

And that's what's important to represent with Splatoon. The mess you make to win and how the weapons react to your enemies.

Adding more weapons to another character is only gonna do the same thing Inklings do.

With a sniper you get a character that can play from a distance and prevent the opponent from getting close.
With a roller you play aggressively and close.

The weapon completely change splatoon and they would play completely differently in smash as well

 

[Ridel]

Ha ha ha, Game and Watch best represents Nintendo in the current era? Fam, there are opinions, and then there are delusions. Game and Watch did not best represent Nintendo when he was actually relevant.

Ok then...replace him with someone else.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

What do the other weapons even matter for though?

They all ultimately in the end do the same thing in the game. They cover turf and take out your enemies so you can win a match.

And that's what's important to represent with Splatoon. The mess you make to win and how the weapons react to your enemies.

Adding more weapons to another character is only gonna do the same thing Inklings do.

Not to mention it's a disservice to Marie and Callie's main role in the story of Splatoon 1. Funny hosts and music idols. That is why they're popular. They made people laugh and gave them joy. No one liked Callie and Marie because they were secret agents.

But sure let's throw some guns on them because we can't leave out that sniper rile, or that slosher. God forbid.

 

[MrReyes96]

Not to mention it's a disservice to Marie and Callie's main role in the story of Splatoon 1. Funny hosts and music idols. That is why they're popular. They made people laughed and gave them joy. No one liked Callie and Marie because they were secret agents.

But sure let's throw some guns on them because we can't leave out that sniper rile, or that slosher. God forbid.

I mean if you didn’t play the story mode I guess?? They are shown to be using weapons, they are agents. No one is doing any disservice to their characters by giving the secre agents weapons they use.
And like I said they could also have elements of them being idols is a moveset like that such as flashy dancing aerial attacks

 

[Morbi]

Not to mention it's a disservice to Marie and Callie's main role in the story of Splatoon 1. Funny hosts and music idols. That is why they're popular. They made people laughed and gave them joy. No one liked Callie and Marie because they were secret agents.

But sure let's throw some guns on them because we can't leave out that sniper rile, or that slosher. God forbid.

That is bull****. It is not a disservice to them to make them playable. That is about the most backwards logic I have ever heard. "It is a disservice to include Fox, his main role is as a pilot, nobody likes him for being a mercenary." First of all, to address the generalization, I liked them because they were secret agents. Without that, I do not care for them and prefer Splatoon 2's hosts. Furthermore, it would not matter. Nobody liked Rosalina for anything combat related and yet here we are. It is not a disservice to have Mario, a platforming plumber, as a brawler. GTFO with that counter-intuitive notion.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean if you didn’t play the story mode I guess?? They are shown to be using weapons, they are agents. No one is doing any disservice to their characters by giving the secre agents weapons they use.
And like I said they could also have elements of them being idols is a moveset like that such as flashy dancing aerial attacks

And then you literally just have a very very very awkward character who feels completely mish mashed and two characters in one instead of a coherent character.

You want them to be dancing one moment, then pull an R. Kelly on South Park the next?

Yeah, no thanks. Again even if you played the story mode (which I did thank you), most people on the internet didn't love Callie and Marie because they were secret agent bad asses. Callie and Marie were loved because of them being music idols and the hosts of the Splatfests where they said funny ****.

And THAT is why it's completely a dis-service to these characters to throw some extra guns on them they might have lying around that the Inklings don't use.

 

[Deleted member]

Couldn't weapons that the Inklings don't use in Smash simply be items instead?

I don't really see any point in forcing someone like the Squid Sisters or Octolings into the game for the sake of representing different weapons in order to make them "different" from the Inklings themselves.