Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Spatman]

I always questioned how "last minute" Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit actually were. The big hint is that despite being last minute, the animators for the trailers still had the time in advance to produce animation mentioning them, especially for the Robin trailer. Animation takes time, and those specially animated trailers were likely commissioned in advanced.

The big problem is that we have no idea what the production history for those two trailers were.

they as characters were already in the game, and present already in the initial project. Their models were already in the game.
The only thing they didn't have until the last phase of the development was a separate slot (meaning with this also the very little differences in moveset they gave them to justify that separate slot).
But hmm, you're making me think here: since Robin's trailer Lucina was presented as a separate character, not a possible Marth's alt skin. If I don't remember wrong, Marth was already confirmed, and in the dojo he had his own slot. That day Lucina's slot was added too

Transformations could return in a modern Pokemon Trainer.

I just dont see why that feature coming back means will be compromised and return as part of another character. It would make no sense to me.

We could have NEW transformations AND those three seperated, you know.

I'm agree.
Pokémon Trainer is just much more interesting than Charizard alone. But it's absolutely necessary for the 3 pokèmon to have a complete moveset with 4 specials.
I don't see any other possible trasformation character that makes the character more interesting than having it as a single character.
Who could they be?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Would you rather have Lip (Panel De Pon) or Ardle (Puyo Puyo)?

 

[Fenriraga]

@PushDustIn Is a good boy and so are the other Source Gamers. Thank you for piling in the evidence.

I am not against Takamaru. I think he would be a cool edition, but why are people putting them in their prediction rosters? Takamaru was not added in due to not enough fan support, and I do not think Takamaru has enough fan support as of now.

I could be wrong, so please correct me.

Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Pit and arguably Duck Hunt didn't have a raving amount of fan support before they were added, yet here they are.

As it stands, each Smash entry so far has had at least one "Retro" rep added. Should the new game continue that tradition, Takamaru is a very likely candidate.

 

[Blargg888]

Keep in mind they were all going to be alt costumes before they became clones. They may have just had all of that prepared for the costumes.

That actually makes a lot of sense. After all, the Koopalings all showed up in Bowser Jr's trailer. And the reason Alph didn't show up can be explained by Pikmin not getting a newcomer.

And aside from Olimar and Bowser Jr., all other alt costumes were just alternate versions of the characters' self (Robin, WFT, Corrin, Cloud, and Bayonetta).

The only thing it doesn't explain is why Lucina got a splash screen but the others didn't.

Would you rather have Lip (Panel De Pon) or Ardle (Puyo Puyo)?

Arle.

 

[Edgelord_197]

Source Gaming made this during the ballot.

It's obviously not totally accurate, but it can be useful for some speculation.



Look at that tiny Bayonetta, haha.

Also Dee AND Magolor?

Thank you, this does give me a perspective on what they like.

1. Bandanna Dee and King K Rool I feel have a high chance coming in

2. Guess they don't really care about Metroid

3. Listening around you guys made me think Takamaru was a highly requested there, but he isn't?

4, They sure don't like cuts.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The Puzzle League/Panel De Pon series is a big part of Nintendo's History. So I wonder if they would choose Lip as a Nintendo relic character or incorporate Puzzle League/Panel De Pon into Arle Nadja along with Puyo Puyo and Tetris.

 

[Chandeelure]

Thank you, this does give me a perspective on what they like.

1. Bandanna Dee and King K Rool I feel have a high chance coming in

2. Guess they don't really care about Metroid

3. Listening around you guys made me think Takamaru was a highly requested there, but he isn't?

4, They sure don't like cuts.

Ridley is decently wanted in Japan too, it's just that he was disconfirmed when the ballot was announced.

 

[Spatman]

Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Pit and arguably Duck Hunt didn't have a raving amount of fan support before they were added, yet here they are.

As it stands, each Smash entry so far has had at least one "Retro" rep added. Should the new game continue that tradition, Takamaru is a very likely candidate.

I'm all for Excitebiker for that spot.
It would be hilarious and very original (and it's much more recognizable all around the world than Takamaru)

 

[Opossum]

Let's do an exercise and assume that there are only going to be thirty characters in the game. Who do you pick? You have to include Mario, Link, and Inklings since they are confirmed. Transformations, if you choose to include them, counts as one character.

My list would include the following:

Spoiler

• Mario
• Luigi
• Peach
• Bowser
• Donkey Kong
• Diddy Kong
• King K. Rool
• Yoshi
• Wario
• Link
• Zelda
• Ganondorf
• Samus
• Kirby
• Meta-Knight
• King Dedede
• Fox
• Pikachu
• Mewtwo
• Captain Falcon
• Ness
• Lucas
• Marth
• Pit
• Captain Olimar
• Villager
• Inklings
• Sonic
• Mega Man
• Bomberman

A lot of people did not like the Tiki Tak Tribes and it shows when Retro decided not to return them. People liked the Snowmad enemies a lot more although Lord Fredrik wasn't well-received. A lot of people even noted the similarity he has to K. Rool. It's also worth noting that enemies have never returned outside the Kremlings. DK is definitely one of the franchise that could use a consistent villain and enemy group. Also, who's to say that the Snowmads enemy group can't return alongside Kremlings?
Sakurai has not, and will never appropriate a lot of another cut character's move set to a newcomer.

Thirty characters? Hoo boy. Here's my version. Realism went out the window when we were limited to thirty characters.

Spoiler

(Waluigi)
(Daruk)(Celica)(Chrom)
(Decidueye)(Inkling)(Isabelle)

Veterans: 23
Newcomers: 7 (Ink-luding Inkling)

Super Mario: 6 (Yoshi re-branded as a Mario character because why not)
WarioWare: 1
Donkey Kong Country: 1
The Legend of Zelda: 4
Metroid: 1
Kid Icarus: 1
Punch-Out!!: 1
Fire Emblem: 3
Kirby: 2
Star Fox: 1
Pokémon: 4
Animal Crossing: 1
Xenoblade Chronicles: 1
Splatoon: 1

Cuts I regretted somewhat: Palutena, Rosalina, Ike, Meta Knight, Miis, Pac-Man.

 

[Jak_spoon]

@PushDustIn Is a good boy and so are the other Source Gamers. Thank you for piling in the evidence.

I am not against Takamaru. I think he would be a cool edition, but why are people putting them in their prediction rosters? Takamaru was not added in due to not enough fan support, and I do not think Takamaru has enough fan support as of now.

I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am.

some people think his assist trophy, Nintendo land, and virtual console game gave him enough awareness.

Plus he has the most conceivable move set for a retro character.

I don’t think he’s going to happen though. He’s too Japanese.

 

[Blargg888]

some people think his assist trophy, Nintendo land, and virtual console game gave him enough awareness.

Plus he has the most conceivable move set for a retro character.

I don’t think he’s going to happen though. He’s too Japanese.

Uh...
He's too Japanese for a Japanese game?
I do not understand.

 

[Inawordyes]

some people think his assist trophy, Nintendo land, and virtual console game gave him enough awareness.

Plus he has the most conceivable move set for a retro character.

I don’t think he’s going to happen though. He’s too Japanese.

Marth is too Japanese. Little Mac is too western. Wii Fit Trainer is too casual. Rosalina is too new. Greninja is too new. Shulk is too irrelevant. Cloud is too Sony. Bayonetta is too mature.

We've gotten plenty of fighters that are too 'something'. Takamaru was - and still is - a pretty solid fanbase request.

EDIT: Sidepoint, but after writing it so many times, the word "too" no longer looks like a word.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Marth is too Japanese. Little Mac is too western. Wii Fit Trainer is too casual. Rosalina is too new. Greninja is too new. Shulk is too irrelevant. Cloud is too Sony. Bayonetta is too mature.

We've gotten plenty of fighters that are too 'something'. Takamaru was - and still is - a pretty solid fanbase request.

EDIT: Sidepoint, but after writing it so many times, the word "too" no longer looks like a word.

But you forgot that Ridley is too big

 

[Hinata]

Source Gaming made this during the ballot.

It's obviously not totally accurate, but it can be useful for some speculation.

Look at that tiny Bayonetta, haha.

Also Dee AND Magolor?

Jibanyan and Ashley on this chart make me happy.

 

[Lyndis_]

Would you rather have Lip (Panel De Pon) or Ardle (Puyo Puyo)?

Arle from Madou Monogatari.

I just don't enjoy Panel De Pon that much, honestly. Whenever I play it I just get really tired...

Puyo Puyo on the otherhand is very fun, and I like the characters. Even if the source material is pretty gory...

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

@PushDustIn Is a good boy and so are the other Source Gamers. Thank you for piling in the evidence.

I am not against Takamaru. I think he would be a cool edition, but why are people putting them in their prediction rosters? Takamaru was not added in due to not enough fan support, and I do not think Takamaru has enough fan support as of now.

I could be wrong, so please correct me if I am.

You should watch this video that was posted on Source Gamings YouTube channel going over what makes Takamaru so likely.

 

[Blargg888]

Out of curiosity, what do you guys want in terms of stages?

Personally, I'm hoping for a nice Mario Odyssey stage. Most people would probably say New Donk City, but I actually kind of want The Moon.

I'm also hoping for a BotW Stage. Either Divine Beast or Ganon's Castle.

Another stage idea would be for a Nintendo Land stage. I know hat might sound weird, but I think it'd make a pretty good stage.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Would you rather have Lip (Panel De Pon) or Ardle (Puyo Puyo)?

Who is Ardle again...?

 

[Bowserlick]

Toad, Waluigi, Paper Mario, Fawful, King Boo, Pauline

---VS---​

(7 MORE)​

 

[Edgelord_197]

Uh...
He's too Japanese for a Japanese game?
I do not understand.

Isn't that why Takumaru isn't in the Smash 4 roster?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Ok, how would you guys react if this roster happened for Smash Switch:

This is not a prediction roster yet, but I swear to Mila that this roster feels SSSOOOO sound. It feels like it hits the right notes, but I am not sure why.

- Idk why you're bringing up the guy between Wario and Mac again, but no
- No new Zelda rep? Cmon now. Plus bringing Sheik and Zelda and Samus/Zamus back together? I do admit that I like them separate from Sm4sh
- No new Kirby rep?
Tom Nook? I think 3 AC reps right now might be a little too much
- Why Pokemon Trainer back? At least let Charizard be his own character while PT can use other generations that haven't been represented (Generations 3, 5, 2, etc)
- Professor Layton? No thanks
- Not sure about Sora, but he may have a harder time getting in
- the lack of Crash is disturbing


Minus some stuff I disagree with, seems like an 8.5/10 from me

Source Gaming made this during the ballot.

It's obviously not totally accurate, but it can be useful for some speculation.

Look at that tiny Bayonetta, haha.

Also Dee AND Magolor?

Reason why I love Japanese fans #1

THEY WANT MAH BOYS WOLF AND ROY BACK

 

[PixelSun]

Let's do an exercise and assume that there are only going to be thirty characters in the game. Who do you pick? You have to include Mario, Link, and Inklings since they are confirmed. Transformations, if you choose to include them, counts as one character.

Spoiler

Tough question

1. Mario
   
2. Link
3. DK
4. Fox
   
5. Peach
6. Yoshi
7. Inklings
8. Bowser
9. K. Rool
10. Ganondorf
11. Wolf
12. Mr. Game & Watch
13. Falco
    
14. Dr. Mario
15. Ness
16. Captain Falcon
17. Marth
18. Roy
19. Shulk
20. Pokemon Trainer w/ Charizard, Venusaur and Blastoise
21. Pikachu
    
22. Kirby
23. King Dedede
24. A Fornite character
25. Tracer from Overwatch
26. Doomfist from ^
27. Vaultboy
28. Doom Guy
29. Mr. Game & Watch
30. Sonic

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

The Puzzle League/Panel De Pon series is a big part of Nintendo's History. So I wonder if they would choose Lip as a Nintendo relic character or incorporate Puzzle League/Panel De Pon into Arle Nadja along with Puyo Puyo and Tetris.

Lip for me. Mostly so it could potentially convince IS to actually start releasing puzzle league games branded with the Panel de pon characters in the west.

 

[Blargg888]

Isn't that why Takumaru isn't in the Smash 4 roster?

No, I'm pretty sure he was omitted due to a lack of fan demand.

It's true that most of that "lack of fan demand" is probably due to not having a game in the west until recently, but if that's what's trying to be said by saying that he's "too Japanese", then that's just weird and unnecessary.

 

[Danpal65]

Spoiler

Tough question

1. Mario
   
2. Link
3. DK
4. Fox
   
5. Peach
6. Yoshi
7. Inklings
8. Bowser
9. K. Rool
10. Ganondorf
11. Wolf
12. Mr. Game & Watch
13. Falco
    
14. Dr. Mario
15. Ness
16. Captain Falcon
17. Marth
18. Roy
19. Shulk
20. Pokemon Trainer w/ Charizard, Venusaur and Blastoise
21. Pikachu
    
22. Kirby
23. King Dedede
24. A Fornite character
25. Tracer from Overwatch
26. Doomfist from ^
27. Vaultboy
28. Doom Guy
29. Mr. Game & Watch
30. Sonic

What up with all the 3rd Party characters that haven't even been on a Nintendo system? Not saying that they are bad choices, just don't really understand where Fortnite and Overwatch (especially 2 Overwatch characters) is coming from.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Would you rather have Lip (Panel De Pon) or Ardle (Puyo Puyo)?

I'd rather have Lip. Puyo Puyo is a popular franchise and given that we already have two SEGA characters it's not out of the realm of possibility, but I'd prefer representing Nintendo's more niche titles.

 

[PixelSun]

What up with all the 3rd Party characters that haven't even been on a Nintendo system? Not saying that they are bad choices, just don't really understand where Fortnite and Overwatch (especially 2 Overwatch characters) is coming from.

Nah, while writting I was joking with a friend about possible character for the new smash, we both came with the idea of having the Fornite guy and 2 overwatch characters, even a Roblox one. Obviously none of those will get into Smash for sure but there's always some hope.

Also AFAIK Cloud's first appearance in a Nintendo Console was in Smash, isn't?

 

[Senselessbreak]

Lord Frerik being K. Rool theory just reeks of desperation for K. Rool to be relevant and present.

It's kinda like the whole Daisy in Super Mario Run thing. Except that at least holds a little more weight.

But thats literally the point of the character. To play a different persona each game.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

But thats literally the point of the character. To play a different persona each game.

While still basically retaining his very basic identity and look. He's like the character in my avatar.

Roger Smith likes to play dress up too, but you can always tell that it's Roger Smith in his alter-egos.

That's the very same for K. Rool.

It's very silly to think he's Lord Fredrik, because it goes against everything else about his previous personas.

 

[Blargg888]

But thats literally the point of the character. To play a different persona each game.

But aren't those costumes just costumes?
You can very clearly tell that K Rool is K Rool in those personas, Lord Frerik was a completely different being from K Rool.

Furthermore, Frerik being K Rool honestly would have kinda felt like a cop-out. If they're gonna bring back K Rool, I think they should be up front about it. Suddenly bringing him back just for the end with no warning would just feel kind of empty.

 

[Danpal65]

Nah, while writting I was joking with a friend about possible character for the new smash, we both came with the idea of having the Fornite guy and 2 overwatch characters, even a Roblox one. Obviously none of those will get into Smash for sure but there's always some hope.

Also AFAIK Cloud's first appearance in a Nintendo Console was in Smash, isn't?

Fair enough.

I'm pretty sure he has been on the 3DS at least in the Final Fantasy spin-off games, but also in Kingdom Hearts Coded on the DS.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Source Gaming made this during the ballot.

It's obviously not totally accurate, but it can be useful for some speculation.

Look at that tiny Bayonetta, haha.

Also Dee AND Magolor?

Mirrored Cloud makes me a tad uncomfortable.

Seriously though, most of this isn’t too surprising, but the lower characters are.

Really didn’t expect Magalor to even be mentioned (don’t really want him much either, more of a Marx guy myself).

Banjo-Kazooie also surprises me. I just kind of assumed it was a western thing, because it’s a European game. Same goes for K. Rool too.

RIP Toad and Waluigi. Maybe Paper Mario does have a solid chance over them. My money’s still on Toad or Cpt Toad, but wouldn’t be surprised to see Waluigi in alongside or even over Toad.

Would you rather have Lip (Panel De Pon) or Ardle (Puyo Puyo)?

Lip because I’ve never heard of Ardle in my life.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Did the 30 character roster thing myself, but I but on some extra requirements since I already did at least one 30 character roster before. Those requirements/ rules include:

1: No franchise other than Mario can have more than three characters.
2: At least two third party characters.
3: Each Pokémon had to be from different generations.
4: One Pokémon had to be from Gen 7.

And thus this thing came into existence.

View attachment 141360

(King K Rool)

(Deicudeye) (Inklings)
(Isabelle)
(Crash)

This was much harder than I was expecting lmao

Some of you guys take all of this way too seriously...

It's the Smashboards. What did you expect when you come here to discuss roster predictions?

If I were going to do 30 character roster I think I would have two franchises versus each other.
(I know this violates the include Link and Inklings rule of the game)

MUSHROOM KINGDOM VS POKEMON

15 each

Hmm

(Toad/Captain Toad) (Daisy) (Waluigi) (Geno) (Ashley)


VS

(Gengar) (Heracross) (Blaziken) (Garvedoir) (Zangoose) (Weavile) (Haxorus) (Zeraora) (Deicudeye)

 

[Mega Bidoof]

But aren't those costumes just costumes?
You can very clearly tell that K Rool is K Rool in those personas, Lord Frerik was a completely different being from K Rool.

Furthermore, Frerik being K Rool honestly would have kinda felt like a cop-out. If they're gonna bring back K Rool, I think they should be up front about it. Suddenly bringing him back just for the end with no warning would just feel kind of empty.

This.

If they’re going to bring back the Kremlings, they’re going to advertise it and market it like they did the return of Dixie, times one billion. It’d probably be the main focus of the game too.

Been waiting for Donkey Kong Country: Kremling Komeback since 2014.

 

[MrReyes96]

Let's do an exercise and assume that there are only going to be thirty characters in the game. Who do you pick? You have to include Mario, Link, and Inklings since they are confirmed. Transformations, if you choose to include them, counts as one character.

My list would include the following:

Spoiler

• Mario
• Luigi
• Peach
• Bowser
• Donkey Kong
• Diddy Kong
• King K. Rool
• Yoshi
• Wario
• Link
• Zelda
• Ganondorf
• Samus
• Kirby
• Meta-Knight
• King Dedede
• Fox
• Pikachu
• Mewtwo
• Captain Falcon
• Ness
• Lucas
• Marth
• Pit
• Captain Olimar
• Villager
• Inklings
• Sonic
• Mega Man
• Bomberman

A lot of people did not like the Tiki Tak Tribes and it shows when Retro decided not to return them. People liked the Snowmad enemies a lot more although Lord Fredrik wasn't well-received. A lot of people even noted the similarity he has to K. Rool. It's also worth noting that enemies have never returned outside the Kremlings. DK is definitely one of the franchise that could use a consistent villain and enemy group. Also, who's to say that the Snowmads enemy group can't return alongside Kremlings?
Sakurai has not, and will never appropriate a lot of another cut character's move set to a newcomer.

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Yoshi
Wario
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Pikachu
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Fox
Samus
Pit
Marth
Ness
Captain Falcon
Villager
Olimar
Inkling
Little Mac
Duck Hunt
Mr Game and Watch

 

[Bowserlick]

Are we ever going to get Animal Buddies back in the DK series?

Why was that killed? For Funky Mode?

 

[Hinata]

If SEGA got another rep from one of their lesser known series (NiGHTS, Jet Set Radio, Yakuza, etc... basically anything but Sonic), who would you want it to be?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Regarding to that Japanese poll posted.

Keep in mind that it's not indicative to what the Japanese really wants due to a combination of being outdated, and it focusing on a minority of people. It was compiled during the "Smash Ballot" period of the last games, so obviously people wouldn't be focusing on stuff that's already present in a significant way like as an Assist Trophy or stage hazard. For all we know, what the Japanese wants could be dramatically different and we wouldn't know.

I want to see a more updated poll to get a better understanding where the Japanese are coming from.

 

[MrReyes96]

If SEGA got another rep from one of their lesser known series (NiGHTS, Jet Set Radio, Yakuza, etc... basically anything but Sonic), who would you want it to be?

If we get another sega rep I would hope it’s from ATLUS
An SMT or persona rep

 

[Jak_spoon]

No, I'm pretty sure he was omitted due to a lack of fan demand.

It's true that most of that "lack of fan demand" is probably due to not having a game in the west until recently, but if that's what's trying to be said by saying that he's "too Japanese", then that's just weird and unnecessary.

Sakurai has multiple articals that you can find translated by source gaming where he talks about how Japanese games don’t sell in the west anymore. He was recently given an award for smash because it was able to sell world wide. The “too Japanese” thing is legitimate because it’s a concern that he has had in every smash. And if you want confirmation of this just look at the state of smash now. While every character in the roster is of Japanese creation except for Diddy Kong it doesn’t feel Japanese. That’s an intentional part of sakurai’s design because he has been trying to no alienate the west.