Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

I never realized how problematic blue hair is...

 

[Deleted member]

And in the case of K. Rool, he's basically most likely to return to DKC, seeing as a new game has been heavily hinted and the CEO of Retro Studios support his return.



*shrugs* Possibly.

This. I've been saying for a long time that I see his return as an inevitability and that it's a matter of if it is as a playable character this game or in the next DK game.

I'm optimistic that E3 2018 will bring us a 3D DK game with Kremlings and K. Rool. I'm also hoping Nintendo pairs that with a K. Rool confirmation for Smash at the same E3. That would bring more hype than any other character except possibly a third-party.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I mean I like King K. Rool, but it's more interesting to have new villains instead of focusing on nostalgia. I like the Tikis and the Artics.

How about a DKC game where you team up with K. Rool and the Kremlings to fight a bigger foe?

 

[Deathcarter]

I'm hoping nobody gets cut. Lucina is a popular Nintendo character. I remember when people loved Super Smash Bros for having the characters they love.

Agreed. I'd rather Sakurai focus on either including more characters I love into the game or reworking existing characters to be more fun than investing that time into decloning a fourth Fire Emblem lord.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Is any game that came to the Wii U going to be considered prominent? I mean most barely got to a million. The Wii U tanked. Why would you want a Smash game to highlight to everyone all the games they didn't want to buy in the first place?

Unsuccessful games will still receive representation if Sakurai sees it fit, in Smash 4 Other M received a ton of representation despite being critically panned and flopping so hard that it sent the series into a 7 year hiatus. It was the same when Star Fox Assault got a lot of representation in Brawl, or Fire Emblem pre-Awakening, or heck just Mother in general (no disrespect meant, I love the series). The Wii U was no success, but if Sakurai wants to represent games which didn't get their spotlight in Smash 4, like Xenoblade X, Star Fox Zero, Super Mario 3D World and Tropical Freeze, then he'll do it regardless of how well they sold.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I never realized how problematic blue hair is...

Blue hair is awesome.

 

[Jak_spoon]

I mean I guess but the roster was probably decided somewhere in 2016, the wii u and 3ds games of that time are kinda all they have to pull from. And I doubt sakurai would want to create a whole roster out of characters that don't technically exist yet outside of a pokemon rep and possibly a fire emblem one

I dont know, I think were thinking about this wrong. Most of our assumptions are based on the trends from Smash 4s roster choice but those choices then made sense from the consoles it was coming from because the wii was such a hit. If we look at how each roster was chosen we can see different trends.

Smash 1 - Chose all the All stars from the SNES - Solid logic
Melee - Added characters to the Big Three Series (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon) - I can sort of see that logic
Brawl - Added fleshed out the roster and added character to existing series - Solid logic
Smash 4 - Added characters that had highly profitable games - Solid logic because the Wii sold like crazy
Smash 5 - ?

Adding characters that had highly profitable games like Smash 4 did doesnt seem logical because the Wii U didnt sell. I think that would be a flop idea. I think we might see a shift in how he chooses the roster but I dont know how.

My best guess is that Sakurai is going to see this as the last smash he will be apart of because It wont be able to grow anymore after this and so hes going to have a grand finale mentality while making the game. or this game is going to be considerably smaller than the others so that the next Smash will have something to pull from.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean I like King K. Rool, but it's more interesting to have new villains instead of focusing on nostalgia. I like the Tikis and the Artics.

How about a DKC game where you team up with K. Rool and the Kremlings to fight a bigger foe?

I would rather that DK have a consistent villain much like Mario and Metroid does with Bowser and Ridley respectively and K. Rool fits the bill. Besides, the Kremlings are a varied bunch of enemies that Retro could come up with all sorts of new ideas for like Rare did.

As for teaming up with K. Rool and the Kremlings, perhaps we could explore that in a spin-off game like a RPG like how Bowser occasionally teams up with Mario against a greater evil.

 

[Koopaul]

Unsuccessful games will still receive representation if Sakurai sees it fit, in Smash 4 Other M received a ton of representation despite being critically panned and flopping so hard that it sent the series into a 7 year hiatus. It was the same when Star Fox Assault got a lot of representation in Brawl, or Fire Emblem pre-Awakening, or heck just Mother in general (no disrespect meant, I love the series). The Wii U was no success, but if Sakurai wants to represent games which didn't get their spotlight in Smash 4, like Xenoblade X, Star Fox Zero, Super Mario 3D World and Tropical Freeze, then he'll do it regardless of how well they sold.

If the unsuccessful game is the most recent iteration of a famous series that is represented in Smash than Sakurai would have no choice but to use that game. Other M was the most recent Metroid game so he had to use elements from that game.

Well I guess there are exceptions. But yeah an unsuccessful game is more likely to get content in Smash if it's from a famous series already in Smash. Otherwise... No.

For example: Codename S.T.E.A.M. is an unsuccessful game and it's not famous, therefor it has no chance. But Metroid Prime Federation Force is an unsuccessful game from a famous series, therefor it does have a chance.

 

[SneakDuckens]

Couple random thoughts I had today when I was thinking about Smash...

1. What if Sakurai really wanted Geno in the next Smash, and Square said they would if he put in Corrin. Hence, Cloud being a DLC fighter for Smash 4.

2. I know that this has probably been talked about previously, but how many of you all would like to see more characters show up as alternate costumes, even if they don't have their own character slot? I know Sakurai generally frowns upon this, but it would be a nice way to put some characters in that might not make the cut. A couple of the ones I thought about off of the top of my head:

Shadow and Metal Sonic (Sonic Alt)
Funky Kong (DK Alt)
James McCloud (C'mon, it's just Fox with sunglasses)

You all have any other ideas?

 

[Lyndis_]

-Edit, misread post. Ignore.-

 

[N3ON]

1. What if Sakurai really wanted Geno in the next Smash, and Square said they would if he put in Corrin. Hence, Corrin being a DLC fighter for Smash 4.

Why would Square care what Sakurai does with FE? Do you mean Cloud?

What about Skyward Sword? That didn't get into Smash 4.

and New Leaf... Star Fox Command, etc;

Skyloft...

Isabelle...

 

[TumblrFamous]

Couple random thoughts I had today when I was thinking about Smash...

1. What if Sakurai really wanted Geno in the next Smash, and Square said they would if he put in Corrin. Hence, Corrin being a DLC fighter for Smash 4.

Wait, Im confused. What connection does Geno and Corrin have?

Edit: if you mean Cloud, doubt it. Sakurai probably just saw the demand of a FF character and Cloud is the most popular one. Im pretty sure thats what he said.

 

[SneakDuckens]

Why would Square care what Sakurai does with FE? Do you mean Cloud?


Skyloft...

Isabelle...

Apologies, I meant to type Cloud.

Wait, Im confused. What connection does Geno and Corrin have?

Edit: if you mean Cloud, doubt it. Sakurai probably just saw the demand of a FE character and Cloud is the most popular one. Im pretty sure thats what he said.

Yes, sorry, I mistyped.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please avoid doubleposting. Edit your messages instead.

 

[SuperMii3D]

If the unsuccessful game is the most recent iteration of a famous series that is represented in Smash than Sakurai would have no choice but to use that game. Other M was the most recent Metroid game so he had to use elements from that game.

Well I guess there are exceptions. But yeah an unsuccessful game is more likely to get content in Smash if it's from a famous series already in Smash. Otherwise... No.

<- this guy says hi.
I know you said there's exceptions, but clearly Sakurai will do what he wants. He just seemingly preferred Other M and its content

 

[TumblrFamous]

I would rather that DK have a consistent villain much like Mario and Metroid does with Bowser and Ridley respectively and K. Rool fits the bill. Besides, the Kremlings are a varied bunch of enemies that Retro could come up with all sorts of new ideas for like Rare did.

As for teaming up with K. Rool and the Kremlings, perhaps we could explore that in a spin-off game like a RPG like how Bowser occasionally teams up with Mario against a greater evil.

I'd like to once again point out that Retro disappointed me big time by not making Viking K. Rool a thing in Tropical Freeze. That was served up to them on a silver platter.

I'm hopeful they notice the love for him, Sakurai and Retro alike, and include him in either Smash or even just another DKC game. He has so much to offer.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I'd like to once again point out that Retro disappointed me big time by not making Viking K. Rool a thing in Tropical Freeze. That was served up to them on a silver platter.

I'm hopeful they notice the love for him, Sakurai and Retro alike, and include him in either Smash or even just another DKC game. He has so much to offer.

Tbh I don't blame retro for wanted them to create their own characters to separate the new DK games from the old ones, who knows if they'll ever bring them back tbh. If they won't bring back K Rool and the Kremlings I'd like if they made the snowmads and fredrick the new reoccuring villains in the DK series, that's assuming the DK series is even continuing tho.

 

[Bowserlick]

Lord Fredrik just being an obvious costume and exposed as K.Rool during the fight would have been correct.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd like to once again point out that Retro disappointed me big time by not making Viking K. Rool a thing in Tropical Freeze. That was served up to them on a silver platter.

I'm hopeful they notice the love for him, Sakurai and Retro alike, and include him in either Smash or even just another DKC game. He has so much to offer.

There was a lot of speculation that K. Rool was Lord Fredrik in disguise although I never believed that was the case seeing as the Kremlings were absence in Returns and Tropical Freeze.

DKC and DK64 alone are more than enough to give him a move set. That's not even considering DKC2 and DKC3 could bring to the table. He would be one of the easiest character to visualize in the game.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Lord Frerik being K. Rool theory just reeks of desperation for K. Rool to be relevant and present.

It's kinda like the whole Daisy in Super Mario Run thing. Except that at least holds a little more weight.

 

[Deleted member]

Blue hair is awesome.

I like all colored hair, as long as the hair is healthy and nice looking.

I'm still a bit surprised Isaac didn't even return as an AT or even gotten a Mii Costume when most of Brawl's AT returned.

I do not know why.... Did Sakurai think he was not that important or something?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Isaac ISN'T that important though.

Isaac is cool as **** and all that, but he legit has very little importance to Nintendo right now seeing as all his studio does for them is ''And now Mario is playing Tennis again!"

 

[Jak_spoon]

I like all colored hair, as long as the hair is healthy and nice looking.

I do not know why.... Did Sakurai think he was not that important or something?

What really gets me is that Isaac didn’t return but Saki did. I just don’t see the logic

 

[Cosmic77]

I've seen a lot of hate for the Tiki Tak Tribe and the Snowmads.

Am I the only one who actually likes these guys? I mean, I miss K. Rool and the Kremlings as much as you guys, but it's kind of nice to have a different antagonist with every game. It gives us a little more mystery as to what the final boss could be like, unlike Mario games where the only real mystery with the final boss fight is if Bowser will magically get bigger or not.

I get that K. Rool is missed, but I feel like people automatically ignore any DK villain that isn't a Kremling because, "Dang it, Retro! Thanks to you, K. Rool is gonna have an even harder time getting in Smash now!"

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I've seen a lot of hate for the Tiki Tak Tribe and the Snowmads.

Am I the only one who actually likes these guys? I mean, I miss K. Rool and the Kremlings as much as you guys, but it's kind of nice to have a different antagonist with every game. It gives us a little more mystery as to what the final boss could be like, unlike Mario games where the only real mystery with the final boss fight is if Bowser will magically get bigger or not.


I get that K. Rool is missed, but I feel like people automatically ignore any DK villain that isn't a Kremling because, "Dang it, Retro! Thanks to you, K. Rool is gonna have an even harder time getting in Smash now!"

Not so much the tiki's cause they felt kinda bland and although there was variation they still felt generic. I loved the snowmads tho they were actually really great, I really wouldn't mind if they were brought back in later games

 

[Wyoming]

The tribe and Snowmads were fine. But I feel that K. Rool and his Kremlings would be an ideal end to the new trilogy, considering he WAS the main antagonist of the original SNES one.

 

[Freduardo]

You know, you could get a pretty awesome and varied group of newcomers if you just promoted assist trophies to playable.

Isaac
Lyn
Ray Mk. III
Saki
Samurai Goroh
Starfy
Tingle
Waluigi
Ashley
Dark Samus
Dillon
Ghirahim
Isabelle
Midna
Skull Kid
Takamaru

With the exception of Goroh and Tingle (who even then I don't really mind), I'd be super okay with all these characters becoming the next Little Mac.

Speaking of, who do you think from SM4SH's AT's is most likely to become the next Little Mac and make the transition?

Top 5 likely:

5) Dark Samus (end of production clone)
4) Takamaru
3) Magnus (Sakurai Bias, also can take a lot of Cloud’s moves if they can’t work a deal with Square)
2) Saki
1) Isabelle

Top 5 Wanted:
5) Jeff
4) Hammer Bro
3) Isaac
2) Dillon
1) Andross

 

[Deleted member]

Let's do an exercise and assume that there are only going to be thirty characters in the game. Who do you pick? You have to include Mario, Link, and Inklings since they are confirmed. Transformations, if you choose to include them, counts as one character.

My list would include the following:

Spoiler

• Mario
• Luigi
• Peach
• Bowser
• Donkey Kong
• Diddy Kong
• King K. Rool
• Yoshi
• Wario
• Link
• Zelda
• Ganondorf
• Samus
• Kirby
• Meta-Knight
• King Dedede
• Fox
• Pikachu
• Mewtwo
• Captain Falcon
• Ness
• Lucas
• Marth
• Pit
• Captain Olimar
• Villager
• Inklings
• Sonic
• Mega Man
• Bomberman

I've seen a lot of hate for the Tiki Tak Tribe and the Snowmads.

Am I the only one who actually likes these guys? I mean, I miss K. Rool and the Kremlings as much as you guys, but it's kind of nice to have a different antagonist with every game. It gives us a little more mystery as to what the final boss could be like, unlike Mario games where the only real mystery with the final boss fight is if Bowser will magically get bigger or not.

I get that K. Rool is missed, but I feel like people automatically ignore any DK villain that isn't a Kremling because, "Dang it, Retro! Thanks to you, K. Rool is gonna have an even harder time getting in Smash now!"

A lot of people did not like the Tiki Tak Tribes and it shows when Retro decided not to return them. People liked the Snowmad enemies a lot more although Lord Fredrik wasn't well-received. A lot of people even noted the similarity he has to K. Rool. It's also worth noting that enemies have never returned outside the Kremlings. DK is definitely one of the franchise that could use a consistent villain and enemy group. Also, who's to say that the Snowmads enemy group can't return alongside Kremlings?

Top 5 likely:

5) Dark Samus (end of production clone)
4) Takamaru
3) Magnus (Sakurai Bias, also can take a lot of Cloud’s moves if they can’t work a deal with Square)
2) Saki
1) Isabelle

Top 5 Wanted:
5) Jeff
4) Hammer Bro
3) Isaac
2) Dillon
1) Andross

Sakurai has not, and will never appropriate a lot of another cut character's move set to a newcomer.

 

[New_Dumal]

I mean I like King K. Rool, but it's more interesting to have new villains instead of focusing on nostalgia. I like the Tikis and the Artics.

How about a DKC game where you team up with K. Rool and the Kremlings to fight a bigger foe?

Sorry... but I disagree. K.Rool should return as the main villain, at least at the start.
K.Rool magic in the DKC franchise is that every time he is transformed into a new persona.
King K. Rool
Kaptain K. Rool
Baron K. Roolestein

He is crazy. Seriously, K.Rool is totally a wacko. And I want to see him as a villain with a lot of new personas.
While it would be cool to play as K.Rool, I just can't see he playing around with the "Dk Crew".

 

[Inawordyes]

Not anymore.
Murasame Castle got released outside Japan through the 3DS Virtual Console feature.

I know haha, but at the time of SM4SH's release it hadn't been released yet.

 

[Starcutter]

I never realized how problematic blue hair is...

I always thought darker blue hair like Marth and Lucina's were supposed to be a more stylized representation of black hair.

I say that, but other characters literally have black hair so idk

 

[Freduardo]

Sakurai has not, and will never appropriate a lot of another cut character's move set to a newcomer.

While you’re right, understand my childhood noted seeing Donkey Kong Jr become Diddy Kong for all intents and purposes.

Aaand speaking on this Kong villain debate... anyone remember the game Jungle Beat? It was actually a lot of fun if you had the Bongo drums.

Anyone think any of the evil Kongs could make a return to the DK series?

Also for nerd points, K Rool has returned in Jungle Climber and with Kremlings in Mario Baseball on GameCube. So they have been used post-rare.

Frankly with evil Kongs, tikis, snowmads, and Kremlings, DK could have a pretty insane set of villains for a game if they just went for broke and used all of them.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Let's do an exercise and assume that there are only going to be thirty characters in the game. Who do you pick? You have to include Mario, Link, and Inklings since they are confirmed. Transformations, if you choose to include them, counts as one character.

My list would include the following:

Spoiler

• Mario
• Luigi
• Peach
• Bowser
• Donkey Kong
• Diddy Kong
• King K. Rool
• Yoshi
• Wario
• Link
• Zelda
• Ganondorf
• Samus
• Kirby
• Meta-Knight
• King Dedede
• Fox
• Pikachu
• Mewtwo
• Captain Falcon
• Ness
• Lucas
• Marth
• Pit
• Captain Olimar
• Villager
• Inklings
• Sonic
• Mega Man
• Bomberman

A lot of people did not like the Tiki Tak Tribes and it shows when Retro decided not to return them. People liked the Snowmad enemies a lot more although Lord Fredrik wasn't well-received. A lot of people even noted the similarity he has to K. Rool. It's also worth noting that enemies have never returned outside the Kremlings. DK is definitely one of the franchise that could use a consistent villain and enemy group. Also, who's to say that the Snowmads enemy group can't return alongside Kremlings?
Sakurai has not, and will never appropriate a lot of another cut character's move set to a newcomer.

I agree with your list entirely except I'd replace bomberman with Pac-man and lucas with shulk.

edit: oh I'd also replace meta knight with Little Mac

 

[Troykv]

I always thought darker blue hair like Marth and Lucina's were supposed to be a more stylized representation of black hair.

I say that, but other characters literally have black hair so idk

It's probably supposed to be that, specially when many artist would ended up making their characters too similar otherwise.

 

[Spatman]

Top 5 likely:

5) Dark Samus (end of production clone)

3) Magnus (Sakurai Bias, also can take a lot of Cloud’s moves if they can’t work a deal with Square)

5) please, no, such a waste!
nowadays we have so many characters that end of production clones simply doesn't have reason to exist: even if not developing a clone grants to save up just few time, always better use that time to do everything else, even just fix a couple of hitboxes or improve 10-20 animations. And overall, since Sakurai's terrible way of thinking in this reguard, having a character as a last minute clone means that character will be a clone in his/her/its entire Smash life. Almost all characters we could want that bad to be in even if just clones, are characters who deserve a better fate

3) it's very unlikely SE wouldn't want to do a deal this time too. But, just in case: Sakurai's bias towards his characters isn't either that strong... on the contrary, sometimes it looks like he refrains himself from adding his own characters maybe to not being disrespectful towards others game developers, or maybe to avoid harsh accusations of bias.
Moreover, well, really we would need a substitute to take Cloud's moves? actually Cloud is very loved because he is Cloud. But his moveset surely isn't so great or special, and it's more often hated than loved.
And we still have Ike as a big sword bringer...

 

[Starcutter]

Oh man, are we doing top 5 likeliest things?

After a month or so of absorbing information from this site in addition to my own opinons, my top 5 would probably be

1. Takamaru
2. Bandana Waddle Dee
3. Isabelle
4. Dixie Kong
5. Rex

Although I'm probably not going to be right on at least two of these just due to how predictions usually go

 

[Edgelord_197]

We’re doing top 5 likely?
1. Bandana Dee
2. King K Rool
3. New Pokemon
4. Retro rep
5. Rex

 

[Bowserlick]

Sakurai's Swan Song
Top Five Likely

1. K. Rool
2. Ridley
3. Decidueye
4. Mach Rider
5. Geno

 

[Koopaul]

View attachment 141350 <- this guy says hi.
I know you said there's exceptions, but clearly Sakurai will do what he wants. He just seemingly preferred Other M and its content

What are you talking about? Pac-Man is one of the most successful series ever!

Did you misread my post? I said unsuccessful games are more likely to get content if they come from a famous series. If a game is unsuccessful AND it doesn't come from a famous series then it's unlikely to be in the game.

EDIT: I see what you are saying. He used Pac-Man's old design and not the new one. I think it's because Pac-Man wasn't in the game before and there was a ton of classic stuff to pull from. But Samus and Metroid stuff had been in Smash for years and there's already been a ton of stuff from classic Metroid in there. So it made sense to use a recent game for new content.
In fact, I bet there will be a Star Fox Zero stage in Smash 5.