Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[WaxPython]

For the 3D Mario Debate...here's my views on Super Mario 3D World..by placing it somewhere in my list of favorite 3D Mario titles..from favorite to least favorite.
- Super Mario Odyssey
- Super Mario 64/Super Mario 64 DS
- Super Mario Galaxy
- Super Mario Galaxy 2
- Super Mario 3D World
- Super Mario Sunshine
- Super Mario 3D Land

Yeah Odyssey is great and a big part of that is the return of hub worlds and an open ended game which devs said was partly because of the 3d world backlash.

3D world for me just felt like an upscale 3D land the level design was butchered to fit in 4 player co op imo

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

J.K. Rowling hasn't done anything like re-releasing the Harry Potter franchise "as originally intended" with intrusive CG... yet.

Well she's not a filmaker, most she can do is rerelease the books with edits in which Malfoy shoots first or something

 

[Tree Gelbman]

J.K. Rowling hasn't done anything like re-releasing the Harry Potter franchise "as originally intended" with intrusive CG... yet.

No but she's adding things to the mythos making sense be damned.

Just like George did.

And both felt comfortable doing that **** because they realize they created an evergreen franchise.

 

[WaxPython]

Do you understand how long that would take to develop? This would easily take a year or two's worth of focused development time, and this would be on top of the other things required of a Smash Bros. game,

Yes. I am in no rush for a new smash bros game. I do not mind waiting for them to get it right.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

He already talked about subspace noting that wol is not the innovation he was hoping for.

I'm still shocked people were EXPECTING a deep story mode in the first place

 

[Xphooni]

No but she's adding things to the mythos making sense be damned.

Just like George did.

And both felt comfortable doing that **** because they realize they created an evergreen franchise.

She continually just tries to make the story more progressive. The past is the past and we should leave books as true representations of the time.

 

[PsySmasher]

Do we know how characters are unlocked yet?

Some ways:

-As soon as you complete a character's classic mode, you will get a new challenger approaching. They aren't random, but the characters unlocked through certain classic modes don't really match up.

Spoiler: Example

K. Rool is unlocked through Link's Classic.

-It takes about 350 matches in Smash to unlock everyone. So about 5 matches before a newcomer shows up.

 

[Xphooni]

I'm still shocked people were EXPECTING a deep story mode in the first place

It's smash. All of our story is implied through cutscenes. We definitely got more than what I was expecting.

Yes. I am in no rush for a new smash bros game. I do not mind waiting for them to get it right.

Smash has never historically be a story heavy game. Why change it?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To note, accusing people of trolling is very disrespectful and uncalled for. If someone you think is trolling, report it. Don't make it an issue in public. It in fact makes it even harder for us to deal with various issues. Think about it; what does accusing people do other than create turmoil? Besides that, flaming other people, regardless of whether they may be trolls or not... is not tolerable here. You can disagree with a statement respectfully. It doesn't matter if they're wrong or not. It's still your responsibility to be respectful towards another user.

Also, having different and negative opinions is not trolling in itself. Intentionally causing drama and spamming the same complaints is an actual problem that needs to be resolved. A wrong statement isn't trolling. Finally, this herd mentality of trying to go against a user because one person believes they're trolling needs to outright stop. More than one user has been driven from this thread due to this intolerable behavior. Grow up. Every user is welcome here and will be treated with respect. If they break the rules, the moderation will handle it. Not any regular user. Show some maturity and simply report issues. Don't create more drama with poor responses and by trying to get others to go against a user. We're not interested in cliques or herd mentality. We have always wanted users to feel welcome. The type of fighting that is constantly seen here makes this thread extremely unwelcome at times. And that's no good for what this forum is supposed to be like. Accusing someone of trolling or trying to get other users to ignore one is causing ways more problems than simply not responding.

Yes, the ignore the button is a thing. However, there's a reason why it's the Moderation that suggests it. It's because it's a last resort. No regular user should even be suggesting it. By doing so, they're intentionally targeting a particular user in public, trying to outright get other users to make someone feel unwelcome. You are free to ignore someone(obviously any member of the Moderation cannot be put on the ignore list. You can simply not respond or file a complaint via forum support if necessary if you believe an issue exists. The moderation in itself will listen. We do infact make errors in our judgment. We are fallible, after all), but do so solely for your own opinion and don't try to influence others to form teams against users. We especially do not like this behavior. And I'll let you in on a little secret too; trying to form cliques to drive another user out? That's actual trolling. And it can sometimes be harassment depending upon the actions. For good reasons, we don't tolerate it. So next time you see a person that says something you don't like, think hard before you post; your actions are entirely on you. Don't ever think that flaming a user that may be a troll will excuse you of your poor behavior. You're responsible for your own actions. So grow up and act mature as well. The rules apply to everyone, after all. There is no such thing as "good guys" and "bad guys" here. There are no teams like that. There are just users, and some users have more power to enforce the rules since it's a necessity because... drama and rules-breaking will always exist. It happens. Doesn't mean we won't do anything about it.

I hope everyone understands why such a long post was needed. I certainly hope in the future this thread becomes far more inviting and full of less drama. Let's just say that I hardly enjoy having to enforce the rules with warnings and infractions. But I do so because it's part of my job. And yeah, sometimes it sucks. But I still chose it anyway. It's what I do, try to help others. Besides, that's the point of warnings and infractions, to help set people on the right path. It should go without saying that it won't always work. But trying is all we can do. Thank you for listening.

 

[WaxPython]

I'm still shocked people were EXPECTING a deep story mode in the first place

No one expected " Everyone is here" either. Subverting expectations is a meaningful way is great and I wish mine were instead they headed in a direction I expected due to smash 4 but not one I personally like.

On the other hand I like the direction they went in for bringing in fan favorites like snake and many newcomers.

A discussion forum is to discuss what we think is good and what we would like done a bit different in our subjective not objective opinion.

 

[doomedtacox]

Yes. I am in no rush for a new smash bros game. I do not mind waiting for them to get it right.

That would be such a stupid move on Nintendo's part considering that isn't what sells copies of smash. I can't believe you think that would be a good direction for the game to take.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

It's smash. All of our story is implied through cutscenes. We definitely got more than what I was expecting.

The very fact that we even got cutscenes at all is surprising to me given the fact they sacrificed trophies due to time constraints

But no, it still isn't enough. Where is my open ended, character specific, choice driven, multiple ending story mode of a fighting game franchise in which Bayonetta dies to the secretary from Animal Crossing

 

[DevaAshera]

Yeah Odyssey is great and a big part of that is the return of hub worlds and an open ended game which devs said was partly because of the 3d world backlash.

3D world for me just felt like an upscale 3D land the level design was butchered to fit in 4 player co op imo

I suppose? I just enjoyed playing Super Mario 3D World, though part of it may have also been getting to play as Princess Peach and, later on, Rosalina as well as the level design still being fun. I felt it played more like a 3D version of 2D Mario, level design-wise, so that was fine with me, I never quite considered it a 3D Mario in the same vein as Odyssey, 64, Sunshine, or the Galaxy games.

 

[Xphooni]

The very fact that we even got cutscenes at all is surprising to me given the fact they sacrificed trophies due to time constraints

But no, it still isn't enough. Where is my open ended, character specific, choice driven, multiple ending story mode of a fighting game franchise in which Bayonetta dies to the secretary from Animal Crossing

I believe they sacrificed trophies because of the spirits and several other modes that went into the game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I liked 3D World a lot more then 3D Land to be honest.

3D World felt like it had soul while 3D Land felt like the bare minimum.



To make this Smash related, WHERE IS MY BOWSER CARNIVAL STAGE?!?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I believe they sacrificed trophies because of the spirits and several other modes that went into the game.

If I recall correctly trophies were massive pain in the ass logistically so he replaced it with the far easier Spirits to save development time and effort

 

[Xphooni]

I suppose? I just enjoyed playing Super Mario 3D World, though part of it may have also been getting to play as Princess Peach and, later on, Rosalina as well as the level design still being fun. I felt it played more like a 3D version of 2D Mario, level design-wise, so that was fine with me, I never quite considered it a 3D Mario in the same vein as Odyssey, 64, Sunshine, or the Galaxy games.

Definitely not in the same vein as the story games.

 

[PsySmasher]

I liked 3D World a lot more then 3D Land to be honest.

3D World felt like it had soul while 3D Land felt like the bare minimum.



To make this Smash related, WHERE IS MY BOWSER CARNIVAL STAGE?!?

I'm still waiting for my Bowser's Castle Stage...
And no, I don't mean that one section in Paper Mario.

 

[Xphooni]

If I recall correctly trophies were massive pain in the *** logistically so he replaced it with the far easier Spirits to save development time and effort

You're probably right.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I believe they sacrificed trophies because of the spirits and several other modes that went into the game.

Not just that. Trophies take a long time to properly develop and add compared to quick images. It also allowed Sakurai to do even more thanks to the Spirits having more applications than Trophies.

Besides, one is easier to license multiple of.

That said, please do not double post and edit in quotes instead.

 

[Xphooni]

Not just that. Trophies take a long time to properly develop and add compared to quick images. It also allowed Sakurai to do even more thanks to the Spirits having more applications than Trophies.

Besides, one is easier to license multiple of.

That said, please do not double post and edit in quotes instead.

Where did I double post?

 

[KMDP]

Well she's not a filmaker, most she can do is rerelease the books with edits in which Malfoy shoots first or something

No but she's adding things to the mythos making sense be damned.

Just like George did.

And both felt comfortable doing that **** because they realize they created an evergreen franchise.

Can't wait for the Harry Potter Re-release Boxset where all references to Snape's being a jerk are removed (even where it causes the story's continuity to break in two), Dumbledore suddenly tells Harry about his sexual preferences with no provocation on more than one occasion, and Hermione becomes a sassy black girl.

Not only that, but new descriptions are added to establishing descriptions of scenes to really inform the reader, even though the new descriptions replace old ones which worked fine and a whole new scene is added where the House Elves of the Malfoy Household do a dance number for no good reason.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

No one expected " Everyone is here" either. Subverting expectations is a meaningful way is great and I wish mine were instead they headed in a direction I expected due to smash 4 but not one I personally like.

On the other hand I like the direction they went in for bringing in fan favorites like snake and many newcomers.

A discussion forum is to discuss what we think is good and what we would like done a bit different in our subjective not objective opinion.

Everyone is here is a subversion that makes sense though. It was unlikely due to time for them to bring back all past characters but it was always possible and something that fits the cross over game to end all cross over games.

What your suggesting is a far deeper story mode than most fighting games get, 90 percent of which cover exactly one universe, for a franchise whose gimmick\selling point is the ridiculousness of it's cross over. We're talking Snake meets Pac Man. What Im saying is your hopes were unrealistically high, and you're criticism of the game not meeting those hopes is unreasonable.

 

[Zinith]

Now that I know that the Spirit Who Loves Surprises is in as a Spirit, I'm thinking that his Battle is Bowser on Yoshi's Island Brawl and the stage tilts frequently...

 

[GoeGoe]

1) Sony .................................. Nintendo
Kingdom Hearts................Chain of Memories
Kingdom Hearts II.............358/2 Days
Birth by Sleep......................Dream Drop Distance
Birth by Sleep 0.5...............reCoded*
*Technically a remake/re-release...but it didn't release for phones in the West, so I'm counting it.
As you can see, without counting remakes/re-releases, exactly half of the Kingdom Hearts series has been on Nintendo consoles..and if they do end up porting the HD Remixes to Switch like I somewhat expect they will, then they'll have exactly the same amount of the series as one another.

2) No, they don't, but neither do Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Metal Gear, Street Fighter, or Final Fantasy. The only 3rd Party that arguably needed the promotion is Bayonetta, but at this point its half-Nintendo. I just don't think Square-Enix nor Nintendo would want to promote a lesser known, less selling series as DLC then one that they know for a fact will sell gangbusters. The point of these DLC characters is to make money and more people will buy a well known property then a lesser known one.

3) Pretty much anyone that wants a different Square-Enix series* or doesn't quite know TWEWY..you can't tell me you can't see people being angry by his inclusion..this fanbase gets angry at just about anyone's inclusion or exclusion.. Please stop saying 'Sonyville' or implying inferred ownership to Sony simply due to how many/how important they are to a different system, literally the same things can be said about Snake and Cloud yet they're in and, honestly, more of their titles have been on Sony systems then Nintendo's then Sora's have. Sakurai does. not. care about console 'allegiance' but rather their importance to gaming as a whole, remember that even if Nintendo chose candidates, Sakurai chose who from those candidates became DLC.

*Note: Kingdom Hearts is NOT a Square-Enix series, it belongs to Disney, SE would be a consultant at best.

1) Well that was my point, why don't we count the remakes and releases? If we're looking for where Sora stayed the most then we're not looking for his main story line but where he had most of his games in, and that would be Sony. Also, The Story So Far (a 9 disc release if I'm not mistaken) is coming to PS4 (I think it was released already), that's the whole story so far (including 3DS's). Means Sony is the cozier home of Sora

2) But what you're saying contradicts wholely with Bayonetta. Sure it's a second party but the point was to drive sales. What I'm getting at is that neither KH or DQ need that sales drive as much as TWEWY.

3) Honestly I think Sora fans have themselves to blame for expecting Sora to be in Smash in the first place. Why would Nintendo promote for another company? Square is stingy, Nintendo is stubborn and Disney is strict, it's not going well for Sora chances. But if you look at TWEWY, it's a Nintendo exclusive, it's recent and no Disney control. Goes much smoother than Sora.
Oh ok, but just pointing on contrary to Sora, Snake has most of beginings on Nintendo (and probably most of his games too, I hope I'm not mistaken here). You keep saying Sakurai doesn't care about allegiance, sure, but I keep saying it's not his call, it's Nintendo's. Also, no, he doesn't care about their game importance, he only cares about his own wishes or views. If it wasn't a Nintendo's (Bayo, Splat) it'd be his wish (Snake, Cloud).

If you're a TWEWY fan, why do you care about Sora, vote for what you like. Isn't Neku good enough?

 

[WaxPython]

That would be such a stupid move on Nintendo's part considering that isn't what sells copies of smash. I can't believe you think that would be a good direction for the game to take.

Not really not everything included in video games is about making a profit. Many niche elements are added in by devs despsite them ot being popular because of a small section of loyal players enjoying those niche elements probably not worth the time and effort but keeping consumers happy and making a good game is worth it.

Cutting trophies for example is probably justified because they dont sell copies of smash but I really liked them so it's a bummer for me.

Of course DLC sells more someone like Sora would sell like hot cakes but it's not a business model I personally enjoy.

Leads to problems like Bayo being broken due to not enough testing done before release nor the ambition to patch her post game for the player base as the Wii u was quietly discontinued.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Where did I double post?

I had to edit and merge the posts(I wish there was a better indicator of a double post merge... outside of only what the Moderation can see). Basically, just remember that you can quote a person and throw that text via copy-pasting into a previous message instead of posting twice in a row.

I hope that helps.

 

[KiBom]

We're never going to get a Smash game that's as ahead of its time as Melee or Brawl was ever again. They both had extremely dangerous work environments and cycles. There is zero chance Sakurai is willing to put himself and his team through that again.

 

[Xphooni]

I had to edit and merge the posts(I wish there was a better indicator of a double post merge... outside of only what the Moderation can see). Basically, just remember that you can quote a person and throw that text via copy-pasting into a previous message instead of posting twice in a row.

I hope that helps.

Alright thanks.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

We're never going to get a Smash game that's as ahead of its time as Melee or Brawl was ever again. They both had extremely dangerous work environments and cycles. There is zero chance Sakurai is willing to put himself and his team through that again.

I like the idea of Sakurai just constantly updating the same version over time. Same destination, longer wait, Sakurai doesn't nearly kill himself for it. Just look at the jump from 4 to Ultimate.

 

[KiBom]

I like the idea of Sakurai just constantly updating the same version over time. Same destination, longer wait, Sakurai doesn't nearly kill himself for it. Just look at the jump from 4 to Ultimate.

I'd be super super down for this. Ultimate looks like a big step up from 4 and I really liked 4, too.

 

[WaxPython]

What your suggesting is a far deeper story mode than most fighting games get

Yes, and most fighting games have less dev time, sell less than smash and have a much lower character roster.

Snash is a prime franchise for a reason I do not think a fleshed out story mode is unreasonable.

Games like God of War, Spiderman, and Red dead 2 showed us that single playse sells and should not be neglected. And I wish we got something else in smash ultimate

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Xphooni]

Not really not everything included in video games is about making a profit. Many niche elements are added in by devs despsite them ot being popular because of a small section of loyal players enjoying those niche elements probably not worth the time and effort but keeping consumers happy and making a good game is worth it.

Cutting trophies for example is probably justified because they dont sell copies of smash but I really liked them so it's a bummer for me.

Of course DLC sells more someone like Sora would sell like hot cakes but it's not a business model I personally enjoy.

Leads to problems like Bayo being broken due to not enough testing done before release nor the ambition to patch her post game for the player base as the Wii u was quietly discontinued.

Every game deals with post release patches. Even games like breath of the wild which was in development for an incredible amount if time had problems.

 

[KiBom]

Yes, and most fighting games have less dev time, sell less than smash and have a much lower character roster.

Snash is a prime franchise for a reason I do not think a fleshed out story mode is unreasonable.

Games like God of War, Spiderman, and Red dead 2 showed us that single playse sells and should not be neglected. And I wish we got something else in smash ultimate

Just my 2 cents.

Those games don't have to have most of their development time spent on actually making a well-balanced fighting game with a huge playable roster, though...

 

[Eru13]

Has anyone found more info on the claim that if you play with multiple player characters in vs matches the required total number of matches to unlock everyone gets lower?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

3d world was definitely disliked by many if not most of the fans of the more main series games (eg. 64, sunshine, galaxy)

Seeing all the reviews of the game and comments about it...a vocal minority sure, but the majority were even louder

I liked 3D World a lot more then 3D Land to be honest.

3D World felt like it had soul while 3D Land felt like the bare minimum.



To make this Smash related, WHERE IS MY BOWSER CARNIVAL STAGE?!?

Well 3D World was an HD sequel to 3D Land that added a lot of things to make it seem like it wasn’t a copy paste game. Plenty of time in between to outdo yourself with better equipment and all that

Yes, and most fighting games have less dev time, sell less than smash and have a much lower character roster.

Snash is a prime franchise for a reason I do not think a fleshed out story mode is unreasonable.

Games like God of War, Spiderman, and Red dead 2 showed us that single playse sells and should not be neglected. And I wish we got something else in smash ultimate

Just my 2 cents.

those games are fully meant for storytelling and single player (especially Spider-Man)

 

[Xphooni]

Yes, and most fighting games have less dev time, sell less than smash and have a much lower character roster.

Snash is a prime franchise for a reason I do not think a fleshed out story mode is unreasonable.

Games like God of War, Spiderman, and Red dead 2 showed us that single playse sells and should not be neglected. And I wish we got something else in smash ultimate

Just my 2 cents.

You said it yourself smash is different in both dev time and character roster.

 

[Idon]

Games like God of War, Spiderman, and Red dead 2 showed us that single playse sells and should not be neglected. And I wish we got something else in smash ultimate

Those games are also made with the intention of being single player experiences and have their entire budget and planning dedicated to providing a singleplayer experience.

Smash is a fighting game or party game depending on who you ask.
Either way, it's fundamental foundation made with the intention of multiple people competing against each other and that is where its focus lies.
Multiplayer is far more important than singleplayer when it comes to this type of content.

To expect any singleplayer content, much less that substantial singleplayer content, is setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Xphooni]

Seeing all the reviews of the game and comments about it...a vocal minority sure, but the majority were even louder

Well 3D World was an HD sequel to 3D Land that added a lot of things to make it seem like it wasn’t a copy paste game. Plenty of time in between to outdo yourself with better equipment and all that

those games are fully meant for storytelling and single player (especially Spider-Man)

You may be right.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

To expect any singleplayer content, much less that substantial singleplayer content, is setting yourself up for disappointment.

And we all love to be disappointed /s