Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[True Blue Warrior]

I know he had little limbs, but he didn't really use them; MODOK was basically a floating head and he worked. Kawashima at least has hands.

Not that I think he'll be playable.

I think the big difference between MODOK and Kawashima is that if the latter was playable, you'd literally have the ability to beat up the fictional depiction of a (still living) real life person, Ryuta Kawashima, and I'd doubt he'd be okay with that idea.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Now you're acknowledging what I actually said and responding accordingly instead of pretending I didn't say it. Thank you.

You're welcome.

The issue with the moment you mention a character is people will instantly think of the most recognisable version of said character.

It's one reason Pac-Man was such a divisive topic for people pre reveal just because some could only imagine the pizza slice. Since Kawashima has (at least as far as I know) has only appeared as a floating head it's natural to immediately think of him in that form. Imagining him with a body feels weirdly wrong like you'd have to twist his design in order to force him to work as a character.

 

[N3ON]

I think the big difference between MODOK and Kawashima is that if the latter was playable, you'd literally have the ability to beat up the fictional depiction of a (still living) real life person, Ryuta Kawashima, and I'd doubt he'd be okay with that idea.

But consent is a different argument entirely than feasibility.

 

[Starcutter]

People are gonna stop talking about Marx when we get more Kirby DLC, just as they weren't talking about him beforehand.

I don't think they will. Marx is still real popular, and I belive that his inclusion in Star Allies as playable will just make people want him in smash, just like how people wanted Bandana Dee. Now that a plausible moveset is right there in people's hands, they want it.

As for Gooey and Rick, Marx just stands out WAY MORE than them, and I'm pretty sure he will continue to stand out when characters like Magolor or Daroach are added to Star Allies (side note, I really hope Daroach gets in Star Allies)

Plus, Marx has a fairly prominent appearance in the manga where he has hands, but we don't talk about that as well as being one of the most memorable final bosses in not only any Kirby game, what most people consider THE BEST Kirby game.



I mean, I want people to forget about Marx and shift over to supporting Dark Matter, but I can't see it happening. Marx is just too powerful.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If Sakurai had to ask Kawashima himself if he wanted his floating head form to be playable, he would be ok with it.

One, I feel he would think it is a fun idea.

Two, him being in a fighting game is not going to cause a major controversy that will put Ryuta Kawashima's real life at risk and bother with his neurological studies.

Unless there is some personal, moral gripe Kawashima has against the thought of his floating head form being a fighter (Which I heavily doubt, especially when the person himself is a neuroscientist), I think Kawashima would likely agree to the idea.

I mean, if I had a super popular series with a tutor that was me in floating head form and Sakurai approached me for my consent, I would agree to it because of how fun that would be to see in a fighter.

Going by N3ON's recent post, I gotta wonder if consent was required to make Kawashima an AT back in Smash 4.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I think the big difference between MODOK and Kawashima is that if the latter was playable, you'd literally have the ability to beat up the fictional depiction of a (still living) real life person, Ryuta Kawashima, and I'd doubt he'd be okay with that idea.

Or, like most people, he'd think that's amazing, and totally be on board with it.

Are you telling me if you have a chance to be in Smash you wouldn't take it?

 

[Deleted member]

People are gonna stop talking about Marx when we get more Kirby DLC, just as they weren't talking about him beforehand.

Just like how people stopped talking about Bandana Waddle Dee just as they weren't talking about him before Return to Dream Land?

 

[BluePikmin11]

This Kawashima talk kinda reminds me of this DSiWare game that I used to play heavily with friends in middle school, Photo Dojo:

Seeing me and my friends fighting each other in an anime-esque fashion was a blast back in the day.

I can imagine Kawashima thinking of the fighting games he has seen before when being consented and think, "Wow! That's a ridiculously good idea! I would love to see it happen!"

Or something like:

"Me in one of the biggest fighting games ever? Yes please!"

 

[HyperSomari64]

Potential Moveset for Tee (Puyo Puyo Tetris) for Smash?????

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Come to think of it, there was a post around 2 days ago that I meant to reply to but didn't have time

That also kinda segues into another thought I had: If we don't get an ARMS or XC2 rep in the base game but we do in DLC, do you think that we'll just get Spring-Man and Rex/Pyra as the "face" of the game, or do you think Sakurai would take into account characters like Twintelle and Morag/Brighid (respectively) who are more popular than the "face" (and also arguably could have more moveset potential) and include them instead?

In the case of ARMS, maybe, especially given there aren't even any true main character in that franchise.

For XC2? I doubt it. I mean Robin was never the most popular Awakening character based off the 2012 poll (the year when the roster was finalised) back then and he still was chosen as the Awakening character, not Owain. So I doubt popularity would trump all in cases like these.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

King K. Rool, Waluigi, Captain Razorbeard, Dr. Eggman, Neo Cortex, "Bomberman's enemy who i don't know the name", The 5 Dastardly Bombers, Ripto, Marx & Ex (Probably?) will be too

& Wario Will be in the Heroes side

They put Wario more of a villain in Brawl than a hero. I mean...he was a d*** kind of villain

Dr. Kawashima is a floating head with hands thanks to his recent 3DS game Brain Age: Concentration Training.

I personally feel had Sakurai been aware of the Concentration Training game back when the roster for Smash 4 was decided, he would have included the character in the game, it would have made imagining him as a fighter easier. The way Brain Age was represented in Smash 4, it seemed as if Sakurai only knew about the big games like Brain Age 1+2. Gameplay-wise, he has a lot of distinct things to offer if you base his moveset on the brain training games, of which I made a moveset of long ago:

Spoiler: Potential Moveset

​

He offers such a different characterization, aesthetic, and moveset potential, that I am shocked that he was not playable in Smash 4 personally. Would Sakurai go far enough in research to discover Concentration Training and reconsider Kawashima again? I think so with Sakurai generally looking for out-there choices, like Tom Nook or Isabelle as potential fighters. Wii Fit Trainer alone goes to show how far Sakurai to find some out-there fighters with potential.

Keep him as an AT and I'm good. You're bringing back the box that should never be opened in the first place Blue.

 

[Deleted member]

If I were in Kawashima's shoes, I wouldn't really care about having playable representation in Smash.

I'd be a neuroscientist whose primary goal is to help children to develop their brains, help aging people to retain their memories, and help patients in neurophysiology to recover lost learning facilities inside their mind.

Why would I even care about something like Smash Bros., let alone whether or not I'm featured in it? The game does nothing in regards to my research or to further my goal.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Kawashima should not be a can of worms anymore with Kawashima as an AT in Smash 4, potentially negating any issue of real-life consent.

If I were in Kawashima's shoes, I wouldn't really care about having playable representation in Smash.

I'd be a neuroscientist whose primary goal is to help children to develop their brains, help aging people to retain their memories, and helping patients in neurophysiology to recover lost learning facilities inside their mind.

Why would I even care about something like Smash Bros., let alone whether or not I'm featured in it? The game does nothing in regards to my research or to further my goal.

So he would neither agree or disagree to the idea and let Sakurai be in charge?

 

[N3ON]

I don't think they will. Marx is still real popular, and I belive that his inclusion in Star Allies as playable will just make people want him in smash, just like how people wanted Bandana Dee. Now that a plausible moveset is right there in people's hands, they want it.

As for Gooey and Rick, Marx just stands out WAY MORE than them, and I'm pretty sure he will continue to stand out when characters like Magolor or Daroach are added to Star Allies (side note, I really hope Daroach gets in Star Allies)

Plus, Marx has a fairly prominent appearance in the manga where he has hands, but we don't talk about that as well as being one of the most memorable final bosses in not only any Kirby game, what most people consider THE BEST Kirby game.



I mean, I want people to forget about Marx and shift over to supporting Dark Matter, but I can't see it happening. Marx is just too powerful.

Well if I'm wrong I'm wrong, but, unless they get included, typically the trajectory of a character who gets brought up due to some fleeting recency is to fade once someone newer and shinier comes along.

Y'know, like Prince Fluff, Suzie, Magolor, Ghirahim, Groose, Demise, Fawful, Nabbit, Wonder Red, Fleming, Zoroark, Victini, Genesect, Deoxys, Micaiah, Caeda, Viridi, Hades, Dillon (who is now back in the news), Anthony Higgs, Elma, Tethu, Claus, Kumatora, probably Funky, inevitably Celica, Midna, Linkle, Toon Zelda, Tetra, Gooey, Black Knight, Tharja, Hector, Mallo, Hoenn Trainer, Kalos Trainer, Johto Trainer, Fiora, Lana, Isa, Matthew, Magnus, Captain Rainbow, Monita, Hawlucha, Zael, every gen 7 currently requested once gen 8 comes, and most third-parties who supported Nintendo in the last half-year. Among others.

But y'know, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Exceptions are out there.

Just like how people stopped talking about Bandana Waddle Dee just as they weren't talking about him before Return to Dream Land?

Call me once Marx actually starts recurring more than once every quarter century past remakes and cameos...

 

[Lyndis_]

Potential Moveset for Tee (Puyo Puyo Tetris) for Smash?????

I personally feel if anyone in that series got in Smash, it'd be Arle Nadja.

Especially since they've existed since before the series even began in Madou Monogatari. I don't know why they'd pick a character from one specific game in the Puyo Puyo series just for Tetris...

 

[Deleted member]

Kawashima should not be a can of worms anymore with Kawashima as an AT in Smash 4, potentially negating any issue of real-life consent.


So he would not agree or disagree to the idea and let Sakurai be in charge?

Oh, I'm sure as hell he would disagree.
Not only would he logically not care about appearing in Smash like a number of you seem to think he would, but I'm sure that he would rather NOT have his image used in a context that goes against who he is and what he stands for.

The Assist role is fine since he briefly appears to set up a brain challenge that rewards the players for participating.

But that's all that you should ever expect.

 

[Radical Bones]

I've had a vision - next week we will get an update on Super Smash Bros. Switch. It might not be major footage, but it will be some kind of update on the game.

Don't ask why I think this - it's more a feeling in me waters.

 

[Yellowlord]

I've had a vision - next week we will get an update on Super Smash Bros. Switch. It might not be major footage, but it will be some kind of update on the game.

Don't ask why I think this - it's more a feeling in me waters.

I'm going to hope you're right with this; it's actually not too unreasonable of a prediction, with it being close to a month and a half since the game was announced. If anything, I just want them to bring back POTD at some point so I have some form of Smash news before and after E3.

 

[Deleted member]

Call me once Marx actually starts recurring more than once every quarter century past remakes and cameos...

So literally.....what Bandana Waddle Dee himself didn't do until some point after Returns.

As in....Marx is currently in his initial "Returns" moment and you'll need to -gasp- wait to see what the future holds before reserving judgement!

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Oh, I'm sure as hell he would disagree.
Not only would he logically not care about appearing in Smash like a number of you seem to think he would, but I'm sure that he would rather NOT have his image used in a context that goes against who he is and what he stands for.

The Assist role is fine since he briefly appears to set up a brain challenge that rewards the players for participating.

But that's all that you should ever expect.

1) You seem to think people can't be more than one thing. Like, if he's a serious doctor who wants to help people, he can't have fun or enjoy the idea of video games.
2) He's already appeared in the game, so we have no reason to believe that it goes against what he stands for.
3) How is "cartoon fighter" against everything that "train your brain guy" stands for? The two don't seem mutually exclusive. It's not like he's Ghandi.

 

[Luminario]

Well if I'm wrong I'm wrong, but, unless they get included, typically the trajectory of a character who gets brought up due to some fleeting recency is to fade once someone newer and shinier comes along.

Y'know, like Prince Fluff, Suzie, Magolor, Ghirahim, Groose, Demise, Fawful, Nabbit, Wonder Red, Fleming, Zoroark, Victini, Genesect, Deoxys, Micaiah, Caeda, Viridi, Hades, Dillon (who is now back in the news), Anthony Higgs, Elma, Tethu, Claus, Kumatora, probably Funky, inevitably Celica, Midna, Linkle, Toon Zelda, Tetra, Gooey, Black Knight, Tharja, Hector, Mallo, Hoenn Trainer, Kalos Trainer, Johto Trainer, Fiora, Lana, Isa, Matthew, Magnus, Captain Rainbow, Monita, Hawlucha, Zael, every gen 7 currently requested once gen 8 comes, and most third-parties who supported Nintendo in the last half-year. Among others.

But y'know, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Exceptions are out there.


Call me once Marx actually starts recurring more than once every quarter century past remakes and cameos...

God, you really wanted to drive that point home, huh?

 

[vaanrose]

If I were in Kawashima's shoes, I wouldn't really care about having playable representation in Smash.

I'd be a neuroscientist whose primary goal is to help children to develop their brains, help aging people to retain their memories, and help patients in neurophysiology to recover lost learning facilities inside their mind.

Why would I even care about something like Smash Bros., let alone whether or not I'm featured in it? The game does nothing in regards to my research or to further my goal.

Even smart people have hobbies.

 

[Antimatter042]

https://imgur.com/a/L6MiL
I decided to make a new semi-realistic roster, and thought I might as well upload it here to get some more feedback than the Roster thread can provide. I tried to keep previous drafts of my roster below 70 characters, but upon further revision I couldn't keep what I wanted to here, so this roster contains 72 characters. 53 Smash 4 vets, 2 Brawl returnees and 17 newcomers. I'll explain my cuts, then returnees, then my newcomers. Apologies in advance for the long spoiler contents:

Spoiler: Roster Justifications

 

[BluePikmin11]

Oh, I'm sure as hell he would disagree.
Not only would he logically not care about appearing in Smash like a number of you seem to think he would, but I'm sure that he would rather NOT have his image used in a context that goes against who he is and what he stands for.

The Assist role is fine since he briefly appears to set up a brain challenge that rewards the players for participating.

But that's all that you should ever expect.

I mean that context is of him appearing a fun party fighting game that IMO has harmless consequences to the person himself and does not lead to situations to which Kawashima's reputation is at stake.

We will see what happens. We will see. I am pretty much gambling on Kawashima for my predictions moreso than feeling confident about it like Isabelle and Tom Nook.

 

[N3ON]

So literally.....what Bandana Waddle Dee himself didn't do until some point after Returns.

As in....Marx is currently in his initial "Returns" moment and you'll need to -gasp- wait to see what the future holds before reserving judgement!

Yes, and until Bandana Dee started regularly recurring I had him in the same boat, you can go back and check.

Why would I assume Marx is going to recur when not only does that rarely happen within the Kirby series, but by that logic I should also assume Rick & Friends and Gooey will also start recurring.

How does assume regularly recurring until proven false make more sense than taking every role as it comes? Right now I am reserving judgment, I'm treating this as an isolated appearance, and applying the trend that happens typically to isolated appearances such as these.

 

[PeridotGX]

I've had a vision - next week we will get an update on Super Smash Bros. Switch. It might not be major footage, but it will be some kind of update on the game.

Don't ask why I think this - it's more a feeling in me waters.

Yeah. At this point I'd be satisfied with ANY Smash news, exept for the confirmation of Marx in a Non-Playable role.

 

[Lyndis_]

I've had a vision - next week we will get an update on Super Smash Bros. Switch. It might not be major footage, but it will be some kind of update on the game.

Don't ask why I think this - it's more a feeling in me waters.

If you're wrong about this I will personally come to your profile and send you a frowny face.

Be warned.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I kind of agree with Golden here.

Dude works with children.

What if he gets in as a fighter and say one of his patients plays Smash?

"My doctor is kicing Princess Peach's butt." isn't exactly a good image to sell to his young patients.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, and until Bandana Dee started regularly recurring I had him in the same boat, you can go back and check.

Oh.
In that case, nothing more.

 

[Hinata]

I've had a vision - next week we will get an update on Super Smash Bros. Switch. It might not be major footage, but it will be some kind of update on the game.

Don't ask why I think this - it's more a feeling in me waters.

I shall believe in your vision. For now, at least.

 

[BluePikmin11]

"My doctor is kicking Princess Peach's butt." isn't exactly a good image to sell to his young patients.

But then why would Kawashima himself try to use a fighting game to help sell his ideals to his patients anyway?

He'd probably use other brain-invoking activities to help in his research and appointment rather than using Smash.

Kawashima himself should not be heavily influenced by young patients anyway with how young and naive children's brains are usually.

This is all assuming that he agrees to the idea of being in Smash anyway.

Seems to me like it would be an easy way to bond with his younger patients.

You can already have Kawashima in Smash.

Just make a Mii.

That's what the things are for.

I doubt Sakurai would put Miis in relationship to Kawashima. I feel the circumstances are very different.

 

[Wyoming]

I've had a vision - next week we will get an update on Super Smash Bros. Switch. It might not be major footage, but it will be some kind of update on the game.

Don't ask why I think this - it's more a feeling in me waters.

Hey man, spoilers are not cool

 

[vaanrose]

I kind of agree with Golden here.

Dude works with children.

What if he gets in as a fighter and say one of his patients plays Smash?

"My doctor is kicing Princess Peach's butt." isn't exactly a good image to sell to his young patients.

Seems to me like it would be an easy way to bond with his younger patients.

 

[JamesDNaux]

You can already have Kawashima in Smash.

Just make a Mii.

That's what the things are for.

 

[Superyoshiom]

https://imgur.com/a/L6MiL
I decided to make a new semi-realistic roster, and thought I might as well upload it here to get some more feedback than the Roster thread can provide. I tried to keep previous drafts of my roster below 70 characters, but upon further revision I couldn't keep what I wanted to here, so this roster contains 72 characters. 53 Smash 4 vets, 2 Brawl returnees and 17 newcomers. I'll explain my cuts, then returnees, then my newcomers. Apologies in advance for the long spoiler contents:

Spoiler: Roster Justifications

Monster Hunter is one of the few third party characters I think I'd be okay with. My only real issue (if you wanna call it that), is that Capcom gets three whole characters, but SEGA already has 2, so whatever

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I've had a vision - next week we will get an update on Super Smash Bros. Switch. It might not be major footage, but it will be some kind of update on the game.

Don't ask why I think this - it's more a feeling in me waters.

My gut tells me the same thing. So let's hope your liquid and my stomach are not idiots.

 

[N3ON]

God, you really wanted to drive that point home, huh?

Without braking or looking both ways.

Don't think some realize how often new guy's spotlight gets usurped by newer guy.

 

[Wyoming]

WHO do we actually expect to be in this game, anyway?

Based on Smashboards we are only getting Inklings and Ice Climbers.

 

[Lyndis_]

I wouldn't say it's the most out there idea, to be honest.

While I definitely don't expect it by any means, this is about the time they'd be having an April direct (if haven't decided on doing one in March instead or just not at all this year...) and certain things seem to point towards them having info to share soon on at least a few games pre-E3.

WHO do we actually expect to be in this game, anyway?

Based on Smashboards we are only getting Inklings and Ice Climbers.

I honestly think it's just really hard to tell for this title. Smash 4 was a lot easier to predict I think.

I expect getting a Xenoblade X character and a new Donkey Kong Country character. Even those I'm not 100% certain about. I think Waddle Dee would definitely make sense (it'd be weirder to not have them in, honestly!) but I can't say for certain if Sakurai would be interested in putting that character in in the first place.

I definitely also feel strongly about Ice Climbers coming back (to the point where back when the 'only 2 new characters' rumor was around in early 2017, Inklings and Ice Climbers were my two guesses.)

 

[Bebe Mignon]

If you're wrong about this I will personally come to your profile and send you a frowny face.

Be warned.

I'm pretty sure you'll be disappointed. However, Pokemon Switch announcement is for sure happening within the next two weeks.