Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KarneraMythos]

Of all the possible Square reps, who would have the least amount of problems getting into Smash if we were to assume that music is potentially a problem?

 

[A.G.L.]

Slime is the face of the series, he promotes it better than most alternatives. It's almost akin to using Pikachu over the Pokemon Trainer. Meanwhile Cloud is the most well-known Final Fantasy character, whereas with DQ it'd be Slime. A protagonist wouldn't be out of the question either, but Slime has solid reasoning behind it too.

Also Slime has crossed over with Mario multiple times before.

I recognize that Slime has had crossovers with Mario before, but so have other DQ characters. I get that Slime is seen as the face of DQ and this is because of the lack of a definitive face of the series. Slime is the only constant, and the other heroes of the series with the exception of Erdrick are generally nameless. Despite this, I still do not see Square pushing for a character that is not the protagonist. It is not in their business patterns when it comes to only one character. Even in the DQ and Mario cross over, Slime is not the only DQ rep there. I just do not see Square pushing for Slime when Slime is a regular enemy in their newest game DQ11. Especially with how stingy Square is, it just does not match with Square's other business decisions regarding guest characters.

 

[Idon]

Yeesh, not looking forward to

Of all the possible Square reps, who would have the least amount of problems getting into Smash if we were to assume that music is potentially a problem?

Neku Sakuraba from The World Ends With You.
Please.
He got tracks in KH, right? Eh? Eeeeeeh?

 

[Shroob]

At this point, I don't even like trying to debate who/what the Square rep could be, because every time we start to settle on one possible idea, someone comes in with a raised index finger and says "Actually.....!"


Final Fantasy? Possible, but it'd have to either be considered a new franchise entirely since FF is 7, and even still, we see how overprotective Square is being with Cloud.


Geno? "HE'S A SPIRIT/IRRELEVANT" etc.


Dragon Quest? "Racist music composer/music mumbo jumbo." "Slime or Erdrick? Obviously Slime, no, actually Erdrick. No, SLIME! ERDRICK! SLIME! ERDRICK! Errr, how about Jade? NO ONE ASKED YOU!"


Sora? "DIDNY"

 

[KarneraMythos]

Yeesh, not looking forward to

Neku Sakuraba from The World Ends With You.
Please.
He got tracks in KH, right? Eh? Eeeeeeh?

Neku would be cool and completely from left field. I support it.

 

[PSIGuy]

Of all the possible Square reps, who would have the least amount of problems getting into Smash if we were to assume that music is potentially a problem?

Honestly probably Geno. Yoko Shimomura is SUPER onboard when it comes to collaborating. She already arranges for Smash frequently and is very thankful to Street Fighter 2, Super Mario RPG and Kingdom Hearts for making her career so successful. If Square Enix gets a cut of DLC sales then they'd probably be content with literally free money for licensing Geno and there'd be no redtape to work through unlike literally any other franchise that Squeenix could include.

 

[LetterO]

Gonna be honest if Neku got in and the only songs that came with him were Twister and Calling I'd be happy.

 

[KarneraMythos]

I'll ask for my boi NineS regarding 2B. Would there be any music licensing issues with her, guys?

Honestly probably Geno. Yoko Shimomura is SUPER onboard when it comes to collaborating. She already arranges for Smash frequently and is very thankful to Street Fighter 2, Super Mario RPG and Kingdom Hearts for making her career so successful. If Square Enix gets a cut of DLC sales then they'd probably be content with literally free money for licensing Geno and there'd be no redtape to work through unlike literally any other franchise that Squeenix could include.

I can see Geno being in the game. He would certainly be cool if his Super Smash Bros. Legacy depiction is potentially something to go by. Never played Super Mario Bros. RPG, but he's a neat character design so I'd be down with him.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

What if the new Square Enix rep is the friends we made along the way?

Who am I kidding, Square doesn't like being friends with anybody. /s

 

[MysticKnives]

All the datamine really told us are bosses with unique arenas, so there could be more. But I'm not banking on that, especially with these rogue streams doing Classic Mode runs.

Spoiler

Jigglypuff fights giant DK, Bayonetta fights giant Palutena and Pikachu fights Mewtwo and then Master Hand.

Doesn't incite much hope for lots of unique bosses.

The Jiggs thing makes a lot of sense in context though. Wouldn’t really count it

 

[Shroob]

At this point, I'll be glad for when VGAs are done and over with to put this rumor to bed.


I do think a reveal is 'likely', especially since our reddit boi more or less confirmed Piranha Plant only had a 'few visual glitches and was mostly done' back in September, so holding him until February seems a touch suspect...


But at this point, if nothing is shown at the VGAs, no skin off of my nose.

 

[KarneraMythos]

What if the new Square Enix rep is the friends we made along the way?

Who am I kidding, Square doesn't like being friends with anybody. /s

Square-Enix was the Grinch all along.

 

[A.G.L.]

You know alot about Square's business decisions with DLC so can you please tell me how likely Neku would actually be so I can keep my expectations in check and not be needlessly super hyped for someone who might not even be in?

I would say he is on the low side. If we are calculating percentages then I would put it like this. 40% for Sora, 40% for DQ rep, 10% Neku and 10% Geno. Unfortunately Neku is just not one of Square's more popular characters so that is what hurts his chances. Because Square is more likely to push for one of their more popular characters.

That isn't why Cloud was chosen. Being a protagonist was meaningless. Being effectively the mascot and most memorable of the franchise is why people wanted him in. Besides, none of the monsters in Final Fantasy have the same mascot status as Slime does. Chocobo and Moogle are important, but Cloud has always trumped them in mascot status. Slime is however vastly more popular than Erdrick, but that's what happens when you're way more known in comparison. Consider the fact that many only know of the first two game outside of Japan. Erdrick doesn't exist outside of lore. Meanwhile, pretty much all know Slime, the actual mascot, who is pushed more than any one Hero(and many of the Heroes aren't notable at all. They're just the player avatar. The kicker is that Slime has his own games. It's also important in the Dragon Quest Monster games, literally being the Pikachu of it. Though unlike Pikachu, it doesn't have this "can't evolve/mate/etc. stuff" going on. Far less situational of a design. But it's not like Slime was based off of a specific version, it's just the first time it had characterization.

Slime is also a protagonist of some games. He's the Pikachu of the series. It makes sense to promote the actual mascot of the series first just as much as a player character. Slime is also more iconic worldwide, making him a very memorable choice. And Square does not only push protagonists as options. Mascots matter too. The noted Mario Hoops 3-on-3 was made by Square-Enix in Japan first. They chose Slime and other general Final Fantasy characters(but not actual protagonists, just generic classes) to work with. In a crossover.

There is no precedent of "player protagonist only" to go off of. They do whatever makes sense. And let's be honest, they're not exactly known for using the actual player characters of DQ over Slime to begin with. Even other monsters have taken precedence. So in the end, it more comes down to what Nintendo wants more. I could see them still saying yes to Erdrick.

I see what you are saying, and definitely respect your opinion. I understand Slime is the face of the DQ series, there is no denying that. And I agree that Slime is more popular than all of the protagonists of the series. This is why I do not completely agree that we will get a DQ rep, because of the lack of a main popular character outside of Slime. And I also will agree Slime has been used more in cross promotion when it comes to DQ characters. All of this is true, and an undeniable fact. This being said DQ is not like Pokemon, and Square is not like Nintendo. Based on what I have observed and researched. Slime does not fit Square's patterns of singular guest characters. Especially because Slime is a regular enemy in DQ11 and not the hero. If Square were to put Slime in this would in essence open the floodgates of regular characters being possible in future crossovers. We did see Nintendo do this with Piranha plant, but again Square does not make decisions like Nintendo. They are not so random with their fighting game choices, they pick the characters that are the hero of the story. And since Slime is not the hero of the recent DQ11, and instead a regular enemy that does hurt its chances. I will agree this is a very gray area, and its hard to see who Square will choose if its a DQ rep. That being said logically Slime does not fit Square's fighting game guest character patterns. If im wrong about this I will happily take the L, but I really doubt it will be Slime.

 

[Zinith]

Did any of the streams go through my boi's Classic Mode?

 

[SmashingXan2]

So, what are all the confirmed bosses?

 

[dream1ng]

I recognize that Slime has had crossovers with Mario before, but so have other DQ characters. I get that Slime is seen as the face of DQ and this is because of the lack of a definitive face of the series. Slime is the only constant, and the other heroes of the series with the exception of Erdrick are generally nameless. Despite this, I still do not see Square pushing for a character that is not the protagonist. It is not in their business patterns when it comes to only one character. Even in the DQ and Mario cross over, Slime is not the only DQ rep there. I just do not see Square pushing for Slime when Slime is a regular enemy in their newest game DQ11. Especially with how stingy Square is, it just does not match with Square's other business decisions regarding guest characters.

It especially doesn't match when you disregard examples when Slime is one of the chosen characters.

There's a reason you have to exclude the precedent set by Dragon Quest crossovers when speaking of who Square pushes, because it doesn't fit that narrative. Not every series' promotion revolves around the main character. It makes no sense to say "here's what they will do with Dragon Quest based on how they treat every series other than Dragon Quest".

A DQ protagonist is possible, but all you have to do is look at past DQ crossovers (and just look at general DQ promotion and marketing) to see Slime is also entirely plausible.

 

[LetterO]

So, what are all the confirmed bosses?

Spoiler: Bosses

Galeem
Galeem's Edgy Brother
Galeem and his Edgy Brother Fused
Rathalos
Galleom
Giga Bowser
Ganon
Marx
Dracula
Master Hand
Crazy Hand

 

[segillav]

Did anything interesting happen in the past 7 hours or so? (that's not related to DLC speculation)

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Verg has more or less quadrupled down on a Square rep, so I'm inclined to believe that "Yes, it's happening".... especially since the last time he went hard on something, we got Incineroar.


But even if we do get something. I'm expecting bare minimum from Square.

Speaking of Verge, is it true he now claims the Minecraft Content is a Boss?

 

[Shroob]

So, what are all the confirmed bosses?

Spoiler

Master Hand
Crazy Hand
Galleom
Galeem
Dharkon
Giga Bowser
Rathalos
Marx
Demon King Ganon
Dracula

 

[SmashingXan2]

Spoiler: Bosses

Galeem
Galeem's Edgy Brother
Galeem and his Edgy Brother Fused
Rathalos
Galleom
Giga Bowser
Ganon
Marx
Dracula
Master Hand
Crazy Hand

Why does Galeem and Galleom have such similar names. Also, legit forgot Dracula was a boss (dont think it's a spoiler as it was revealed in direct)

Spoiler

Master Hand
Crazy Hand
Galleom
Galeem
Dharkon
Giga Bowser
Rathalos
Marx
Demon King Ganon
Dracula

That's a pretty nice amount honestly, wonder if there's more, although I think that may be as much as Brawl if I remember all of them

 

[dream1ng]

I'll ask for my boi NineS regarding 2B. Would there be any music licensing issues with her, guys?

2B is awesome but I can't see Nintendo choosing her when she's yet to make an appearance on any Nintendo platform nor carries the prestige of many alternatives.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I really think the Square rep could be Lara Croft. Like, I can really see that happening. There's no other character more iconic than her at Square (besides Cloud). She doesn't have the copyright issues the DQ and FF characters have. She's been on Nintendo Consoles before. And she's currently relevant.

The only thing going against her is her guns but seeing Bayonetta with hers, and the Belmont's throwing actual religious imagery around, I'm starting to think that, yeah, he may loosen up on that a bit.

I think it's her or Geno. Literally the only two I can see logically happening.

 

[Shroob]

Speaking of Verge, is it true he now claims the Minecraft Content is a Boss?

Supposedly.


What makes things even more curious is apparently in the code there's something about Jet Force Gemini, a RARE owned game, though there's apparently nothing in game about it(No Spirits or anything).


He's quadrupled down on the 2nd Square rep, so that's the only thing that he's 100% sure on right now.

 

[DutchPichu]

Spoiler

Master Hand
Crazy Hand
Galleom
Galeem
Dharkon
Giga Bowser
Rathalos
Marx
Demon King Ganon
Dracula

Where did Werewolf and that Bayonetta boss (I’m not familiar with the series so I don’t know the name) go?

 

[MSmariosonic]

I've never heard about Erdrick until I joined the SSBU speculation scene

But I've known and recognized Slime for a long time due to his prominent appearances and unique design

 

[SmashingXan2]

Where did Werewolf and that Bayonetta boss (I’m not familiar with the series so I don’t know the name) go?

I think Werewolf is a stage hazard, but what's this about a Bayonetta one?

 

[A.G.L.]

It especially doesn't match when you disregard examples when Slime is one of the chosen characters.

There's a reason you have to exclude the precedent set by Dragon Quest crossovers when speaking of who Square pushes, because it doesn't fit that narrative. Not every series' promotion revolves around the main character. It makes no sense to say "here's what they will do with Dragon Quest based on how they treat every series other than Dragon Quest".

A DQ protagonist is possible, but all you have to do is look at past DQ crossovers (and just look at general DQ promotion and marketing) to see Slime is also entirely plausible.

I agree thats why I say DQ is a gray area in terms of which character would be chosen for the Square spot. Its hard to pin point what exact character Square would use outside of Slime for a DQ rep. That being said unfortunately Slime does not fit Square's singular guest character patterns. Nor does it fit Square's fighting game guest character patterns. I would be very surprised if they added Slime as it is a regular enemy in their newest games DQ11 & DQ Builders 2. So far what we have seen when it comes to guest fighting characters from Square, they are always the protagonist of the game.

 

[Zinith]

Spoiler: Luigi's Boss

is apparently Dracula

 

[Shroob]

Where did Werewolf and that Bayonetta boss (I’m not familiar with the series so I don’t know the name) go?

We have no idea.


Werewolf's a stage hazard on Dracula's Castle, but, at this point I don't think Lumen Sage even exists.

 

[MSmariosonic]

I really think the Square rep could be Lara Croft. Like, I can really see that happening. There's no other character more iconic than her at Square (besides Cloud). She doesn't have the copyright issues the DQ and FF characters have. She's been on Nintendo Consoles before. And she's currently relevant.

The only thing going against her is her guns but seeing Bayonetta with hers, and the Belmont's throwing actual religious imagery around, I'm starting to think that, yeah, he may loosen up on that a bit.

I think it's her or Geno. Literally the only two I can see logically happening.

Croft is definitely my top Square Enix pick

But does Sakurai even realize how big Lara actually is outside of Japan because to my knowledge she's barely an icon in Japan.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I really think the Square rep could be Lara Croft. Like, I can really see that happening. There's no other character more iconic than her at Square (besides Cloud). She doesn't have the copyright issues the DQ and FF characters have. She's been on Nintendo Consoles before. And she's currently relevant.

The only thing going against her is her guns but seeing Bayonetta with hers, and the Belmont's throwing actual religious imagery around, I'm starting to think that, yeah, he may loosen up on that a bit.

I think it's her or Geno. Literally the only two I can see logically happening.

Lara or Geno would both be dope. Honestly my top 2 SE Reps. How popular is Lara in Japan? She's very iconic but for some reason I have a hard time imagining her in Smash (maybe cuz she's too human? with her pickaxe and guns)

 

[Shroob]

Spoiler: Unpopular opinion

I don't like modern Lara

There, I said it.

 

[Deleted member]

Who is Varia Samus’s boss?

Spoiler: Unpopular opinion

I don't like modern Lara

There, I said it.

Yeah, i prefer the classic games more than the new ones.
The latter feel too much like Uncharted.

 

[dream1ng]

I agree thats why I say DQ is a gray area in terms of which character would be chosen for the Square spot. Its hard to pin point what exact character Square would use outside of Slime for a DQ rep. That being said unfortunately Slime does not fit Square's singular guest character patterns. Nor does it fit Square's fighting game guest character patterns. I would be very surprised if they added Slime as it is a regular enemy in their newest games DQ11 & DQ Builders 2. So far what we have seen when it comes to guest fighting characters from Square, they are always the protagonist of the game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the three fighting game Square crossovers (Noctis, 2B, and Cloud) feature characters that may be protagonists, but are also used heavily in their series' promotion. Why not entertain that commonality instead of the protagonist aspect? You could draw many parallels, but the one of Square contributing characters that are used strongly in promotion doesn't come at the omission of examples that don't fit the pattern.

 

[A.G.L.]

I really think the Square rep could be Lara Croft. Like, I can really see that happening. There's no other character more iconic than her at Square (besides Cloud). She doesn't have the copyright issues the DQ and FF characters have. She's been on Nintendo Consoles before. And she's currently relevant.

The only thing going against her is her guns but seeing Bayonetta with hers, and the Belmont's throwing actual religious imagery around, I'm starting to think that, yeah, he may loosen up on that a bit.

I think it's her or Geno. Literally the only two I can see logically happening.

Lara would be interesting, the only reason I really did not consider her is due to her weapons. That being said they did find a way to make Bayonetta work and that is character I did not think they could make it work. It would also help her gain more popularity in the East as she is more popular in the West. So this could be like Dragon Quest, but in reverse. Instead of making the character more well known out of Japan, they would be making the character more well known in Japan.

Also went to see Ralph Breaks the Internet, to my disappointment not a Mario/Nintendo reference in sight. I still find it odd that Disney was allowed to play Mario Kart music without repercussions from Nintendo. Especially because Nintendo has come down on smaller businesses and people for this. Perhaps there is still some sort of partnership taking place between Disney and Nintendo. That being said I have to agree, Sora's chances are less high. I still think it could happen if Disney and Nintendo are working on something in secret.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

My problem with Slime is that, as iconic as he is to Japan, he's not as well known over here and could even be seen as generic by some standards. And I agree with that. That's part of his charm. He's a regular old slime ball.

Thing is. Is that really going to impress people? No matter what you do to the moveset are people going to go "Wow, a Dragon Quest character!" over Slime? I wouldn't think so. He'd be a big deal to Japan sure but I don't see him happening. I could definitely see him as a part of the moveset though. DQ8 had a pretty cool capture mechanic in which you could actually capture and battle with a Slime. That's a cool concept and one reason I would push for the DQ8 Protagonist but that also seems HIGHLY unlikely .

 

[PLATINUM7]

Spoiler: Unpopular opinion

I don't like modern Lara

There, I said it.

That's a popular opinion from what I see on other sites.

 

[Calamitas]

I feel like I'm the only one who'd want someone from Bravely Default as the new Square Rep. . .

 

[GoeGoe]

You kno

Gonna be honest if Neku got in and the only songs that came with him were Twister and Calling I'd be happy.

You know, I was going to suggest Neku yesterday. He makes the most sense out of all, coincides with A.G.L. understanding of Square too.
Excuse what's coming: Sora, Sony boy. Geno, bit old for Square. Slime, sure but doesn't TWEWY needs more promotion than DQ?
Plus, I don't think anyone would be mad if Neku joined. Also, in... ohhhhhhh... maan (ok I just realized something but I'll keep it for later).. also, won't he be the rythem rep.. kinda

Edit: Also, Neku looks cooler than any of those 3 (imo).
Edit 2: Nice call on Calling btw. That's one neat piece of music.
Edit 3: The game is Nintendo exclusive too. Unlike KH or DQ.
Edit 4: You know, I never realized how much I wanted Neku as a Square rep before. NEKU FOR SMASH :D