• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

KarneraMythos

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
2,769
Please Heavenly father let them be wrong!

Almost NOBODY ASKED FOR STEVE TO BE INCLUDED IN THE GAME (HE WOULD BE A VILLAGER ECHO WHO'S MOVESET IS BEYOND CRAPPY)!

THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE ARE DEMANDING FOR HIM TO GET IN IS BECAUSE ONE SMALL LEAK DETAIL VERGE SAID (STEVE WOULD BE EVEN WORSE THAN STUPID PLANT)!

GIVE US BANJO AND KAZOOIE! SORA FROM KINGDOM HEARTS! RYU HAYABUSA FROM NINJA GAIDEN! ANOTHER FIGHTING GAME CHARACTER THAT COMES FROM TEKKEN/SOUL CALIBUR/MORTAL KOMBAT/FATAL FURY! NOT THIS WASTE OF INDIE SPACE!!!!!!
Okay, first of all, Steve isn't an Indie character anymore. He's well beyond that point considering his franchise's success. Second, whether Steve is in the roster or not, kids will certainly buy him, which could potentially add to Nintendo (and Mojang, and Microsoft's) revenue, encouraging more DLC (perhaps what the 30 extra slots are for).

Third, if Steve is in the game and does sell the public on DLC, that creates demand for more, which gives other Most-Wanted characters a chance to be playable. This includes Banjo & Kazooie, Sora, Ryu Hayabusa, Heihachi, Nightmare, Scorpion, Terry Bogard, and so on. I don't like Steve, I really don't. Trust me, I get it, but you need to see the silver lining in some things sometimes. Not all is doom and gloom.

Oh I think you missed the part I said we don't see it, Poppi merely talks about it which raises some eyebrows and makes I believe Pyra and Baguette stare at False Nopon, with Brittany wondering about his views on women, Sorry I wasn't clear enough
Ahhh, you're talking about the heart-to-heart where Pay-raise and Bradpitt call Terry out on fooling Popcorn into thinking the maid outfits have a practical purpose beyond their looks. The controversy was about how they were being hypocritical about the whole thing, but I have my own 2 cents on what that scene was trying to convey.

Yes, it's true that Papyrus and Bridges aren't dressed up very modestly themselves, but their argument against Torbjörn was in regards to Paper's dependence on false information from him. She does not have a word on the matter because she doesn't possess the capacity to choose what she wants to wear on her own. It's not the maid outfits themselves so much as it's Peppi's lack of free-will and knowledge on the matter that set them off.
 

JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,935
NNID
JacobReal!
Switch FC
SW-4350-2362-0253
So Vergeben now says Minecraft representation is a boss and that Steve may have been wrong, but Hitagi said he was certain about Steve as a fighter.

So..... do none of the leakers know what’s going on with DLC or is Hitagi getting bad information? I’m confused.
At this point, you shouldn't trust any of the leakers imo
 

Flyboy

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
5,288
Location
Dayton, OH
Okay guys, I figured I'd just put this into one relatively lengthy theory post. To cut straight to the point, I believe that there may be some very circumstantial evidence pointing toward Celica being a DLC character.

As I said, this is, of course, mostly circumstantial evidence. It could all just be a bunch of silly coincidences that happen to line up. But hey, what's the harm in speculation?

For this theory to stand, one major assumption does need to be made, and that is that having a spirit in the base game eliminates the chance of a character becoming DLC. Some may point out that Lucas and Mewtwo had trophies in Smash 4 but still became DLC, but a major difference is that trophies don't affect gameplay while spirits do. This, in my mind, makes them relatively incomparable.

This is further bolstered by the presence of Fighter Spirits, or spirits of playable characters. These spirits are not able to be equipped, and seem to be the equivalent of fighter trophies here.

However, it should be noted that Piranha Plant, a confirmed DLC character, does NOT have any spirits dedicated to itself. As well, some may point out that certain fighters have regular spirits based on themselves. These include a Mario Tennis Aces version of Luigi, Kaptain K. Rool, and the Wii Fit Trainer doing various yoga poses. However, these are considered variants separate from the fighter spirits. It's not listed as "Luigi," but as "Luigi (Mario Tennis Aces)." It's not "King K. Rool," it's "Kaptain K. Rool." It's not "Wii Fit Trainer," it's "Tree." It's not "Delivery," it's "DiGiorno."

In essence, this theory assumes that if a character's spirit is listed as it's normal name, and not a variant, the character is out of the running for DLC.

Now that we've established the ground rules of the theory, let's move onto the character in question: Celica.

For those unaware, Celica is one of the Fire Emblem franchise's main lords. She stars alongside Alm in the second game in the series, Fire Emblem Gaiden, as well as its remake, the fifteenth game, Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia. As of now, the latter is the most recently released mainline Fire Emblem title. She utilizes both offensive and support based magic, as well as swordplay, though she is far more adept at the former, and, save for Warriors where she was a last minute addition, she has always focused more on magic over swordplay.

Additionally, her magic is very unorthodox when compared to other mages in other games in the franchise. Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia didn't have its magic users cast through the use of tomes; the casting was done freehand. Instead, magic used its caster's own life force as its fuel. The stronger the spell, the stronger the toll it would take on the caster's health. This further accentuated the glass cannon status mages had in the series.

So, what points to Celica being DLC?

Simply put, there's a veritable dearth of Shadows of Valentia content in the game, which is odd for the most recent entry in the series. The game came out only five months after Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon, and a good amount of time before ARMS, Splatoon 2, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, all of which have considerably more content in the game.

And it's not as though Fire Emblem itself was hurting for content in general. The franchise received a whopping new ten remixes, numerous spirits, and even a newcomer in the form of Chrom as an Echo Fighter. And yet, Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia received almost nothing.

The games received only two spirits, being an evolving spirit set: a joint spirit of Young Alm and Celica, and the evolved Alm and Celica joint spirit. In the music department, the games got the Brawl remix of With Mila's Divine Protection and the Smash 4 remix of the Gaiden Fight Theme, as well as four ported songs from Shadows of Valentia. These were March to Deliverance, Lord of a Dead Empire, The Scions' Dance in Purgatory, and Those Who Challenge Gods. Notably missing is the fan favorite final map theme, Twilight of the Gods.

But...the choice of music to port over is incredibly suspicious. March to Deliverance is Alm's first map theme, mirroring Celica's, With Mila's Divine Protection. Lord of a Dead Empire and The Scions' Dance in Purgatory are the fight themes for Emperor Rudolf and Berkut, respectively...two bosses on Alm's side. The final song, Those Who Challenge Gods, is the variant of the fight theme that plays in Acts V and VI, making them not tied to either Alm or Celica.

In other words, three of the four songs ported from Shadows of Valentia are specific to Alm's route, with the fourth song being neutral. None of the songs are tied to Celica specifically. The Shadows of Valentia version of With Mila's Divine Protection is absent, as well as another fan favorite song, The Sacrifice and the Saint (Celica's second map theme), both of which are integrally tied to Celica.

Why does this matter?

One big reason why this matters has to do with what each DLC pack contains. Each of the five packs of DLC in the Fighter Pass contains one character, one stage, and several songs. It's entirely possible that the "missing" songs are not present because they are tied to Celica's DLC pack. We could very easily get, say, a music pack that includes With Mila's Divine Protection, The Sacrifice and the Saint, and Twilight of the Gods, all fan-favorite songs, as well as maybe The Ark of Dawn and Unity to round it off to a nice five.

But what about the Alm & Celica spirit?

As stated above, this would be considered a variant spirit. There is an "Alm & Celica" joint spirit, but NOT a "Celica" spirit. If one assumes that spirits cannot become DLC, then Celica is still in the running.

Why would Nintendo, who is picking the DLC, pick Celica over someone from Three Houses?

There are two main reasons why a Three Houses character, like Edelgard, Byleth, Dimitri, or Claude, may be skipped over. The first of which is that, like with Rex in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, a Three Houses character may, in fact, be too new to make the cut. If a late 2017 release got a mere consolation prize, then it's possible that a game that won't release until spring of 2019 may also be far too late.

The second reason is one of popularity. Putting in a character from an unreleased game could be considered a gamble. There is no guarantee that the game or character will be well received. And with something like DLC, which needs to stand and sell on its own, it's better to go for something with proven popularity.

...And Celica is INCREDIBLY popular. According to the second Choose Your Legends poll held for Fire Emblem Heroes, in which players could vote for their favorite characters so they could get special alternate variants in the game, Celica received an astounding 36,302 votes. This put her first in the Women's Division, and second over all, only behind Hector by about 2,000 votes. While Ike, Lucina, Lyn, and Roy were excluded from the second poll due to winning the first poll, Celica managed to out-score Marth, Chrom, Robin, and Corrin, all of whom are in Smash already. She also received nearly double the amount of votes that her costar, Alm, did.

This was likely not due to Recency Bias, either, as Alm and Celica were the exceptions, and not the rule. Most other Shadows of Valentia characters scored comparatively lower, as the poll was conducted more than half a year after the game released. The poll was also held in January of 2018, long before Ultimate was even announced, for reference. Celica also has three versions of herself playable in Heroes: the normal version, her Choose Your Legends fan-voted variant, and a Fallen Heroes variant. Comparatively, Alm only has his normal version playable, and no other Shadows of Valentia-based character has an alternate version. As a gacha game, the developers know that popularity sells, so Celica having additional variants is proof of her popularity.

And most notably of all, this wouldn't be the first time Celica was added to a crossover roster by Nintendo's request. During an interview focused on Fire Emblem Warriors, the developers specifically stated that certain characters were added late into development at the request of both Intelligent Systems and Nintendo themselves. In a later interview, it was revealed that Celica was a last-minute addition, which is seen by her utilizing Marth's moveset with magical special attacks and how she has no story presence in the game, as well as a few unpolished animation quirks.

By connecting the dots, we can see that Nintendo specifically requested that Celica be added to Fire Emblem Warriors. Seeing as Nintendo is also picking the DLC characters, and that Ultimate has, thus far, been seemingly avoiding things relating to Celica and Shadows of Valentia in general, this is a point in her favor.

So in review, Celica:

Is a proven popular character
Is not disconfirmed by the Spirits DLC theory
Has been added to a game at Nintendo's request in the past
Is from a game that has little content in Ultimate, especially in the music department, and even more so in music related to her specifically

Add onto all of these that Shadows of Valentia has numerous locales that can be used as stages, such as Duma Tower, the Temple of Mila, the Zofian Seaway, Grieth's Citadel, Ram Village, the Sluice Gate, the Swamps of Duma, Fear Mountain, the Altar of Duma, and Zofia Castle, and I think Celica is a prime candidate for DLC.

As stated above, all of this is based on, admittedly, circumstantial evidence. Celica is far from a lock for DLC, but at the very least, I believe she is a strong option, even with my obvious biases aside. I do think she's a character people are heavily sleeping on.

And hey, if all of this is just a series of coincidences, that's fine. Speculation is all in good fun, after all.

Thoughts?
I absolutely think you're onto something. The lack of Echoes spirits is wild to me considering the popularity of Celica and even characters like Leon and Silque have decent followings. Plus no Celica music? I think you have a case.

I'd personally be VERY into it. I really enjoy SoV and Celica as a whole. If we have to have another FE rep, she's my second pick (Sorry, I just love Anna too much).

If this means we get an actually good FE stage that reps Echoes that only adds to the positives to me.
 

Roberk

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
2,588
Okay guys, I figured I'd just put this into one relatively lengthy theory post. To cut straight to the point, I believe that there may be some very circumstantial evidence pointing toward Celica being a DLC character.

As I said, this is, of course, mostly circumstantial evidence. It could all just be a bunch of silly coincidences that happen to line up. But hey, what's the harm in speculation?

For this theory to stand, one major assumption does need to be made, and that is that having a spirit in the base game eliminates the chance of a character becoming DLC. Some may point out that Lucas and Mewtwo had trophies in Smash 4 but still became DLC, but a major difference is that trophies don't affect gameplay while spirits do. This, in my mind, makes them relatively incomparable.

This is further bolstered by the presence of Fighter Spirits, or spirits of playable characters. These spirits are not able to be equipped, and seem to be the equivalent of fighter trophies here.

However, it should be noted that Piranha Plant, a confirmed DLC character, does NOT have any spirits dedicated to itself. As well, some may point out that certain fighters have regular spirits based on themselves. These include a Mario Tennis Aces version of Luigi, Kaptain K. Rool, and the Wii Fit Trainer doing various yoga poses. However, these are considered variants separate from the fighter spirits. It's not listed as "Luigi," but as "Luigi (Mario Tennis Aces)." It's not "King K. Rool," it's "Kaptain K. Rool." It's not "Wii Fit Trainer," it's "Tree." It's not "Delivery," it's "DiGiorno."

In essence, this theory assumes that if a character's spirit is listed as it's normal name, and not a variant, the character is out of the running for DLC.

Now that we've established the ground rules of the theory, let's move onto the character in question: Celica.

For those unaware, Celica is one of the Fire Emblem franchise's main lords. She stars alongside Alm in the second game in the series, Fire Emblem Gaiden, as well as its remake, the fifteenth game, Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia. As of now, the latter is the most recently released mainline Fire Emblem title. She utilizes both offensive and support based magic, as well as swordplay, though she is far more adept at the former, and, save for Warriors where she was a last minute addition, she has always focused more on magic over swordplay.

Additionally, her magic is very unorthodox when compared to other mages in other games in the franchise. Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia didn't have its magic users cast through the use of tomes; the casting was done freehand. Instead, magic used its caster's own life force as its fuel. The stronger the spell, the stronger the toll it would take on the caster's health. This further accentuated the glass cannon status mages had in the series.

So, what points to Celica being DLC?

Simply put, there's a veritable dearth of Shadows of Valentia content in the game, which is odd for the most recent entry in the series. The game came out only five months after Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon, and a good amount of time before ARMS, Splatoon 2, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, all of which have considerably more content in the game.

And it's not as though Fire Emblem itself was hurting for content in general. The franchise received a whopping new ten remixes, numerous spirits, and even a newcomer in the form of Chrom as an Echo Fighter. And yet, Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia received almost nothing.

The games received only two spirits, being an evolving spirit set: a joint spirit of Young Alm and Celica, and the evolved Alm and Celica joint spirit. In the music department, the games got the Brawl remix of With Mila's Divine Protection and the Smash 4 remix of the Gaiden Fight Theme, as well as four ported songs from Shadows of Valentia. These were March to Deliverance, Lord of a Dead Empire, The Scions' Dance in Purgatory, and Those Who Challenge Gods. Notably missing is the fan favorite final map theme, Twilight of the Gods.

But...the choice of music to port over is incredibly suspicious. March to Deliverance is Alm's first map theme, mirroring Celica's, With Mila's Divine Protection. Lord of a Dead Empire and The Scions' Dance in Purgatory are the fight themes for Emperor Rudolf and Berkut, respectively...two bosses on Alm's side. The final song, Those Who Challenge Gods, is the variant of the fight theme that plays in Acts V and VI, making them not tied to either Alm or Celica.

In other words, three of the four songs ported from Shadows of Valentia are specific to Alm's route, with the fourth song being neutral. None of the songs are tied to Celica specifically. The Shadows of Valentia version of With Mila's Divine Protection is absent, as well as another fan favorite song, The Sacrifice and the Saint (Celica's second map theme), both of which are integrally tied to Celica.

Why does this matter?

One big reason why this matters has to do with what each DLC pack contains. Each of the five packs of DLC in the Fighter Pass contains one character, one stage, and several songs. It's entirely possible that the "missing" songs are not present because they are tied to Celica's DLC pack. We could very easily get, say, a music pack that includes With Mila's Divine Protection, The Sacrifice and the Saint, and Twilight of the Gods, all fan-favorite songs, as well as maybe The Ark of Dawn and Unity to round it off to a nice five.

But what about the Alm & Celica spirit?

As stated above, this would be considered a variant spirit. There is an "Alm & Celica" joint spirit, but NOT a "Celica" spirit. If one assumes that spirits cannot become DLC, then Celica is still in the running.

Why would Nintendo, who is picking the DLC, pick Celica over someone from Three Houses?

There are two main reasons why a Three Houses character, like Edelgard, Byleth, Dimitri, or Claude, may be skipped over. The first of which is that, like with Rex in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, a Three Houses character may, in fact, be too new to make the cut. If a late 2017 release got a mere consolation prize, then it's possible that a game that won't release until spring of 2019 may also be far too late.

The second reason is one of popularity. Putting in a character from an unreleased game could be considered a gamble. There is no guarantee that the game or character will be well received. And with something like DLC, which needs to stand and sell on its own, it's better to go for something with proven popularity.

...And Celica is INCREDIBLY popular. According to the second Choose Your Legends poll held for Fire Emblem Heroes, in which players could vote for their favorite characters so they could get special alternate variants in the game, Celica received an astounding 36,302 votes. This put her first in the Women's Division, and second over all, only behind Hector by about 2,000 votes. While Ike, Lucina, Lyn, and Roy were excluded from the second poll due to winning the first poll, Celica managed to out-score Marth, Chrom, Robin, and Corrin, all of whom are in Smash already. She also received nearly double the amount of votes that her costar, Alm, did.

This was likely not due to Recency Bias, either, as Alm and Celica were the exceptions, and not the rule. Most other Shadows of Valentia characters scored comparatively lower, as the poll was conducted more than half a year after the game released. The poll was also held in January of 2018, long before Ultimate was even announced, for reference. Celica also has three versions of herself playable in Heroes: the normal version, her Choose Your Legends fan-voted variant, and a Fallen Heroes variant. Comparatively, Alm only has his normal version playable, and no other Shadows of Valentia-based character has an alternate version. As a gacha game, the developers know that popularity sells, so Celica having additional variants is proof of her popularity.

And most notably of all, this wouldn't be the first time Celica was added to a crossover roster by Nintendo's request. During an interview focused on Fire Emblem Warriors, the developers specifically stated that certain characters were added late into development at the request of both Intelligent Systems and Nintendo themselves. In a later interview, it was revealed that Celica was a last-minute addition, which is seen by her utilizing Marth's moveset with magical special attacks and how she has no story presence in the game, as well as a few unpolished animation quirks.

By connecting the dots, we can see that Nintendo specifically requested that Celica be added to Fire Emblem Warriors. Seeing as Nintendo is also picking the DLC characters, and that Ultimate has, thus far, been seemingly avoiding things relating to Celica and Shadows of Valentia in general, this is a point in her favor.

So in review, Celica:

Is a proven popular character
Is not disconfirmed by the Spirits DLC theory
Has been added to a game at Nintendo's request in the past
Is from a game that has little content in Ultimate, especially in the music department, and even more so in music related to her specifically

Add onto all of these that Shadows of Valentia has numerous locales that can be used as stages, such as Duma Tower, the Temple of Mila, the Zofian Seaway, Grieth's Citadel, Ram Village, the Sluice Gate, the Swamps of Duma, Fear Mountain, the Altar of Duma, and Zofia Castle, and I think Celica is a prime candidate for DLC.

As stated above, all of this is based on, admittedly, circumstantial evidence. Celica is far from a lock for DLC, but at the very least, I believe she is a strong option, even with my obvious biases aside. I do think she's a character people are heavily sleeping on.

And hey, if all of this is just a series of coincidences, that's fine. Speculation is all in good fun, after all.

Thoughts?
... Hell yes.

For such a recent/relevant game, it's so odd that we don't have singular Spirits for Echoes characters. Maybe Spirits can be added with the fighter packs, and that's why we got barely any Echoes Spirits in the base game? The absence of notable songs from SoV like Twilight of the Gods is notable too.



It all just makes so much sense and this is a potential DLC pick I can get behind. No promotion salt, proven popularity, and she's bound to be unique in gameplay and design (you don't get priestesses as protagonists every day). Count me in.
 

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
9,547
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
So Vergeben now says Minecraft representation is a boss and that Steve may have been wrong, but Hitagi said he was certain about Steve as a fighter.

So..... do none of the leakers know what’s going on with DLC or is Hitagi getting bad information? I’m confused.
Hitagi is literally piggybacking off every word that comes out Verge's mouth. So far, he's done absolutely nothing that proves he genuinely knows who's in the DLC.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

Cosmic God
Super Moderator
Premium
BRoomer
Writing Team
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
15,494
NNID
VenusBloom
3DS FC
0318-9184-0547
Was hoping we would get Dr Eggman and M Bison as bosses. Or maybe Akuma.
 
Last edited:

Pyra

Aegis vs Goddess
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
18,560
Location
where ToasterBrains is
NNID
ToasterBrains
Switch FC
SW 8322 4207 9908
I'm happy to know Squad strike is pretty much what everyone thought it was

1543104631090.png
 
Last edited:

Tree Gelbman

100 Percent Done
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
15,352
I'm inclined to believe there's A LOT of misinformation running around about DLC right now. Square rep, everything. I have a feeling. A mighty strong one.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
What's wrong with the current FE stages? Castle Siege is a staple Smash stage, Arena Ferox is overall a good design that got extra work put into it to give it a quality hazards off form, and Coliseum was forgettable in Wii U but I bet it's going to be one of the best stages in the game for 8 player smash. When I think of which series have high average stage quality in Smash, honestly, FE is near the top of my list probably right behind Pokemon.
 

beans

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 4, 2018
Messages
1,139

BlondeLombax

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2018
Messages
3,649
Location
The island of Svölbard
... Hell yes.

For such a recent/relevant game, it's so odd that we don't have singular Spirits for Echoes characters. Maybe Spirits can be added with the fighter packs, and that's why we got barely any Echoes Spirits in the base game? The absence of notable songs from SoV like Twilight of the Gods is notable too.



It all just makes so much sense and this is a potential DLC pick I can get behind. No promotion salt, proven popularity, and she's bound to be unique in gameplay and design (you don't get priestesses as protagonists every day). Count me in.
Haven't played SoV yet, but I have to admit, I love the map theme from Brawl. Plus, from what I've heard about her, she could probably be a really unique fighter in a similar vain to Robin. I'm for her, despite the inevitable salt over more FE representation (then again, I'm for anyone and everyone in the roster).
 

Pokechu

chugga chugga
Moderator
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
5,814
Location
Moo Moo Meadows
NNID
Pokechu
3DS FC
5000-1894-6879
Switch FC
SW-7547-3301-4325
Okay guys, I figured I'd just put this into one relatively lengthy theory post. To cut straight to the point, I believe that there may be some very circumstantial evidence pointing toward Celica being a DLC character.

As I said, this is, of course, mostly circumstantial evidence. It could all just be a bunch of silly coincidences that happen to line up. But hey, what's the harm in speculation?

For this theory to stand, one major assumption does need to be made, and that is that having a spirit in the base game eliminates the chance of a character becoming DLC. Some may point out that Lucas and Mewtwo had trophies in Smash 4 but still became DLC, but a major difference is that trophies don't affect gameplay while spirits do. This, in my mind, makes them relatively incomparable.

This is further bolstered by the presence of Fighter Spirits, or spirits of playable characters. These spirits are not able to be equipped, and seem to be the equivalent of fighter trophies here.

However, it should be noted that Piranha Plant, a confirmed DLC character, does NOT have any spirits dedicated to itself. As well, some may point out that certain fighters have regular spirits based on themselves. These include a Mario Tennis Aces version of Luigi, Kaptain K. Rool, and the Wii Fit Trainer doing various yoga poses. However, these are considered variants separate from the fighter spirits. It's not listed as "Luigi," but as "Luigi (Mario Tennis Aces)." It's not "King K. Rool," it's "Kaptain K. Rool." It's not "Wii Fit Trainer," it's "Tree." It's not "Delivery," it's "DiGiorno."

In essence, this theory assumes that if a character's spirit is listed as it's normal name, and not a variant, the character is out of the running for DLC.

Now that we've established the ground rules of the theory, let's move onto the character in question: Celica.

For those unaware, Celica is one of the Fire Emblem franchise's main lords. She stars alongside Alm in the second game in the series, Fire Emblem Gaiden, as well as its remake, the fifteenth game, Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia. As of now, the latter is the most recently released mainline Fire Emblem title. She utilizes both offensive and support based magic, as well as swordplay, though she is far more adept at the former, and, save for Warriors where she was a last minute addition, she has always focused more on magic over swordplay.

Additionally, her magic is very unorthodox when compared to other mages in other games in the franchise. Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia didn't have its magic users cast through the use of tomes; the casting was done freehand. Instead, magic used its caster's own life force as its fuel. The stronger the spell, the stronger the toll it would take on the caster's health. This further accentuated the glass cannon status mages had in the series.

So, what points to Celica being DLC?

Simply put, there's a veritable dearth of Shadows of Valentia content in the game, which is odd for the most recent entry in the series. The game came out only five months after Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon, and a good amount of time before ARMS, Splatoon 2, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, all of which have considerably more content in the game.

And it's not as though Fire Emblem itself was hurting for content in general. The franchise received a whopping new ten remixes, numerous spirits, and even a newcomer in the form of Chrom as an Echo Fighter. And yet, Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia received almost nothing.

The games received only two spirits, being an evolving spirit set: a joint spirit of Young Alm and Celica, and the evolved Alm and Celica joint spirit. In the music department, the games got the Brawl remix of With Mila's Divine Protection and the Smash 4 remix of the Gaiden Fight Theme, as well as four ported songs from Shadows of Valentia. These were March to Deliverance, Lord of a Dead Empire, The Scions' Dance in Purgatory, and Those Who Challenge Gods. Notably missing is the fan favorite final map theme, Twilight of the Gods.

But...the choice of music to port over is incredibly suspicious. March to Deliverance is Alm's first map theme, mirroring Celica's, With Mila's Divine Protection. Lord of a Dead Empire and The Scions' Dance in Purgatory are the fight themes for Emperor Rudolf and Berkut, respectively...two bosses on Alm's side. The final song, Those Who Challenge Gods, is the variant of the fight theme that plays in Acts V and VI, making them not tied to either Alm or Celica.

In other words, three of the four songs ported from Shadows of Valentia are specific to Alm's route, with the fourth song being neutral. None of the songs are tied to Celica specifically. The Shadows of Valentia version of With Mila's Divine Protection is absent, as well as another fan favorite song, The Sacrifice and the Saint (Celica's second map theme), both of which are integrally tied to Celica.

Why does this matter?

One big reason why this matters has to do with what each DLC pack contains. Each of the five packs of DLC in the Fighter Pass contains one character, one stage, and several songs. It's entirely possible that the "missing" songs are not present because they are tied to Celica's DLC pack. We could very easily get, say, a music pack that includes With Mila's Divine Protection, The Sacrifice and the Saint, and Twilight of the Gods, all fan-favorite songs, as well as maybe The Ark of Dawn and Unity to round it off to a nice five.

But what about the Alm & Celica spirit?

As stated above, this would be considered a variant spirit. There is an "Alm & Celica" joint spirit, but NOT a "Celica" spirit. If one assumes that spirits cannot become DLC, then Celica is still in the running.

Why would Nintendo, who is picking the DLC, pick Celica over someone from Three Houses?

There are two main reasons why a Three Houses character, like Edelgard, Byleth, Dimitri, or Claude, may be skipped over. The first of which is that, like with Rex in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, a Three Houses character may, in fact, be too new to make the cut. If a late 2017 release got a mere consolation prize, then it's possible that a game that won't release until spring of 2019 may also be far too late.

The second reason is one of popularity. Putting in a character from an unreleased game could be considered a gamble. There is no guarantee that the game or character will be well received. And with something like DLC, which needs to stand and sell on its own, it's better to go for something with proven popularity.

...And Celica is INCREDIBLY popular. According to the second Choose Your Legends poll held for Fire Emblem Heroes, in which players could vote for their favorite characters so they could get special alternate variants in the game, Celica received an astounding 36,302 votes. This put her first in the Women's Division, and second over all, only behind Hector by about 2,000 votes. While Ike, Lucina, Lyn, and Roy were excluded from the second poll due to winning the first poll, Celica managed to out-score Marth, Chrom, Robin, and Corrin, all of whom are in Smash already. She also received nearly double the amount of votes that her costar, Alm, did.

This was likely not due to Recency Bias, either, as Alm and Celica were the exceptions, and not the rule. Most other Shadows of Valentia characters scored comparatively lower, as the poll was conducted more than half a year after the game released. The poll was also held in January of 2018, long before Ultimate was even announced, for reference. Celica also has three versions of herself playable in Heroes: the normal version, her Choose Your Legends fan-voted variant, and a Fallen Heroes variant. Comparatively, Alm only has his normal version playable, and no other Shadows of Valentia-based character has an alternate version. As a gacha game, the developers know that popularity sells, so Celica having additional variants is proof of her popularity.

And most notably of all, this wouldn't be the first time Celica was added to a crossover roster by Nintendo's request. During an interview focused on Fire Emblem Warriors, the developers specifically stated that certain characters were added late into development at the request of both Intelligent Systems and Nintendo themselves. In a later interview, it was revealed that Celica was a last-minute addition, which is seen by her utilizing Marth's moveset with magical special attacks and how she has no story presence in the game, as well as a few unpolished animation quirks.

By connecting the dots, we can see that Nintendo specifically requested that Celica be added to Fire Emblem Warriors. Seeing as Nintendo is also picking the DLC characters, and that Ultimate has, thus far, been seemingly avoiding things relating to Celica and Shadows of Valentia in general, this is a point in her favor.

So in review, Celica:

Is a proven popular character
Is not disconfirmed by the Spirits DLC theory
Has been added to a game at Nintendo's request in the past
Is from a game that has little content in Ultimate, especially in the music department, and even more so in music related to her specifically

Add onto all of these that Shadows of Valentia has numerous locales that can be used as stages, such as Duma Tower, the Temple of Mila, the Zofian Seaway, Grieth's Citadel, Ram Village, the Sluice Gate, the Swamps of Duma, Fear Mountain, the Altar of Duma, and Zofia Castle, and I think Celica is a prime candidate for DLC.

As stated above, all of this is based on, admittedly, circumstantial evidence. Celica is far from a lock for DLC, but at the very least, I believe she is a strong option, even with my obvious biases aside. I do think she's a character people are heavily sleeping on.

And hey, if all of this is just a series of coincidences, that's fine. Speculation is all in good fun, after all.

Thoughts?
I don't think Celica will be DLC, I think her playstyle aligns too closely to Robin for her to be considered. Fire Emblem already has a lot of characters too and it's possible Sakurai had the power to veto a request, which he possibly could have done with Celica after having qualms with adding Corrin, and after adding Chrom this game. If there is a FE newcomer I'd expect it to be Edelgard as she offers something completely new to FE in Smash (axes) and there's no way she came too late; I think this first pack would end in 2020 so Spring 2019 is far off from that and only just a few months into the future now, and they were willing to put Corrin in Smash around the time Fates released overseas, which shows they don't have a problem with adding new characters for promotion. Celica's lack of music could just be something strange as the AW AT was removed and AW has no tracks at all.
 

SonicMario

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
4,063
Location
Mushroom Square
Okay guys, I figured I'd just put this into one relatively lengthy theory post. To cut straight to the point, I believe that there may be some very circumstantial evidence pointing toward Celica being a DLC character.

As I said, this is, of course, mostly circumstantial evidence. It could all just be a bunch of silly coincidences that happen to line up. But hey, what's the harm in speculation?

For this theory to stand, one major assumption does need to be made, and that is that having a spirit in the base game eliminates the chance of a character becoming DLC. Some may point out that Lucas and Mewtwo had trophies in Smash 4 but still became DLC, but a major difference is that trophies don't affect gameplay while spirits do. This, in my mind, makes them relatively incomparable.

This is further bolstered by the presence of Fighter Spirits, or spirits of playable characters. These spirits are not able to be equipped, and seem to be the equivalent of fighter trophies here.

However, it should be noted that Piranha Plant, a confirmed DLC character, does NOT have any spirits dedicated to itself. As well, some may point out that certain fighters have regular spirits based on themselves. These include a Mario Tennis Aces version of Luigi, Kaptain K. Rool, and the Wii Fit Trainer doing various yoga poses. However, these are considered variants separate from the fighter spirits. It's not listed as "Luigi," but as "Luigi (Mario Tennis Aces)." It's not "King K. Rool," it's "Kaptain K. Rool." It's not "Wii Fit Trainer," it's "Tree." It's not "Delivery," it's "DiGiorno."

In essence, this theory assumes that if a character's spirit is listed as it's normal name, and not a variant, the character is out of the running for DLC.

Now that we've established the ground rules of the theory, let's move onto the character in question: Celica.

For those unaware, Celica is one of the Fire Emblem franchise's main lords. She stars alongside Alm in the second game in the series, Fire Emblem Gaiden, as well as its remake, the fifteenth game, Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia. As of now, the latter is the most recently released mainline Fire Emblem title. She utilizes both offensive and support based magic, as well as swordplay, though she is far more adept at the former, and, save for Warriors where she was a last minute addition, she has always focused more on magic over swordplay.

Additionally, her magic is very unorthodox when compared to other mages in other games in the franchise. Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia didn't have its magic users cast through the use of tomes; the casting was done freehand. Instead, magic used its caster's own life force as its fuel. The stronger the spell, the stronger the toll it would take on the caster's health. This further accentuated the glass cannon status mages had in the series.

So, what points to Celica being DLC?

Simply put, there's a veritable dearth of Shadows of Valentia content in the game, which is odd for the most recent entry in the series. The game came out only five months after Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon, and a good amount of time before ARMS, Splatoon 2, and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, all of which have considerably more content in the game.

And it's not as though Fire Emblem itself was hurting for content in general. The franchise received a whopping new ten remixes, numerous spirits, and even a newcomer in the form of Chrom as an Echo Fighter. And yet, Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia received almost nothing.

The games received only two spirits, being an evolving spirit set: a joint spirit of Young Alm and Celica, and the evolved Alm and Celica joint spirit. In the music department, the games got the Brawl remix of With Mila's Divine Protection and the Smash 4 remix of the Gaiden Fight Theme, as well as four ported songs from Shadows of Valentia. These were March to Deliverance, Lord of a Dead Empire, The Scions' Dance in Purgatory, and Those Who Challenge Gods. Notably missing is the fan favorite final map theme, Twilight of the Gods.

But...the choice of music to port over is incredibly suspicious. March to Deliverance is Alm's first map theme, mirroring Celica's, With Mila's Divine Protection. Lord of a Dead Empire and The Scions' Dance in Purgatory are the fight themes for Emperor Rudolf and Berkut, respectively...two bosses on Alm's side. The final song, Those Who Challenge Gods, is the variant of the fight theme that plays in Acts V and VI, making them not tied to either Alm or Celica.

In other words, three of the four songs ported from Shadows of Valentia are specific to Alm's route, with the fourth song being neutral. None of the songs are tied to Celica specifically. The Shadows of Valentia version of With Mila's Divine Protection is absent, as well as another fan favorite song, The Sacrifice and the Saint (Celica's second map theme), both of which are integrally tied to Celica.

Why does this matter?

One big reason why this matters has to do with what each DLC pack contains. Each of the five packs of DLC in the Fighter Pass contains one character, one stage, and several songs. It's entirely possible that the "missing" songs are not present because they are tied to Celica's DLC pack. We could very easily get, say, a music pack that includes With Mila's Divine Protection, The Sacrifice and the Saint, and Twilight of the Gods, all fan-favorite songs, as well as maybe The Ark of Dawn and Unity to round it off to a nice five.

But what about the Alm & Celica spirit?

As stated above, this would be considered a variant spirit. There is an "Alm & Celica" joint spirit, but NOT a "Celica" spirit. If one assumes that spirits cannot become DLC, then Celica is still in the running.

Why would Nintendo, who is picking the DLC, pick Celica over someone from Three Houses?

There are two main reasons why a Three Houses character, like Edelgard, Byleth, Dimitri, or Claude, may be skipped over. The first of which is that, like with Rex in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, a Three Houses character may, in fact, be too new to make the cut. If a late 2017 release got a mere consolation prize, then it's possible that a game that won't release until spring of 2019 may also be far too late.

The second reason is one of popularity. Putting in a character from an unreleased game could be considered a gamble. There is no guarantee that the game or character will be well received. And with something like DLC, which needs to stand and sell on its own, it's better to go for something with proven popularity.

...And Celica is INCREDIBLY popular. According to the second Choose Your Legends poll held for Fire Emblem Heroes, in which players could vote for their favorite characters so they could get special alternate variants in the game, Celica received an astounding 36,302 votes. This put her first in the Women's Division, and second over all, only behind Hector by about 2,000 votes. While Ike, Lucina, Lyn, and Roy were excluded from the second poll due to winning the first poll, Celica managed to out-score Marth, Chrom, Robin, and Corrin, all of whom are in Smash already. She also received nearly double the amount of votes that her costar, Alm, did.

This was likely not due to Recency Bias, either, as Alm and Celica were the exceptions, and not the rule. Most other Shadows of Valentia characters scored comparatively lower, as the poll was conducted more than half a year after the game released. The poll was also held in January of 2018, long before Ultimate was even announced, for reference. Celica also has three versions of herself playable in Heroes: the normal version, her Choose Your Legends fan-voted variant, and a Fallen Heroes variant. Comparatively, Alm only has his normal version playable, and no other Shadows of Valentia-based character has an alternate version. As a gacha game, the developers know that popularity sells, so Celica having additional variants is proof of her popularity.

And most notably of all, this wouldn't be the first time Celica was added to a crossover roster by Nintendo's request. During an interview focused on Fire Emblem Warriors, the developers specifically stated that certain characters were added late into development at the request of both Intelligent Systems and Nintendo themselves. In a later interview, it was revealed that Celica was a last-minute addition, which is seen by her utilizing Marth's moveset with magical special attacks and how she has no story presence in the game, as well as a few unpolished animation quirks.

By connecting the dots, we can see that Nintendo specifically requested that Celica be added to Fire Emblem Warriors. Seeing as Nintendo is also picking the DLC characters, and that Ultimate has, thus far, been seemingly avoiding things relating to Celica and Shadows of Valentia in general, this is a point in her favor.

So in review, Celica:

Is a proven popular character
Is not disconfirmed by the Spirits DLC theory
Has been added to a game at Nintendo's request in the past
Is from a game that has little content in Ultimate, especially in the music department, and even more so in music related to her specifically

Add onto all of these that Shadows of Valentia has numerous locales that can be used as stages, such as Duma Tower, the Temple of Mila, the Zofian Seaway, Grieth's Citadel, Ram Village, the Sluice Gate, the Swamps of Duma, Fear Mountain, the Altar of Duma, and Zofia Castle, and I think Celica is a prime candidate for DLC.

As stated above, all of this is based on, admittedly, circumstantial evidence. Celica is far from a lock for DLC, but at the very least, I believe she is a strong option, even with my obvious biases aside. I do think she's a character people are heavily sleeping on.

And hey, if all of this is just a series of coincidences, that's fine. Speculation is all in good fun, after all.

Thoughts?
As someone entirely neutral about Fire Emblem. I'd be fine with Celica, Nintendo would finally get the 8-player Fire Emblem match it clearly wants heh. But yeah i'll definitely put Celica as a possibility to show up sometime.
 

Guh-Huzzah!

Totally humorous voice over and YouTube guy.
Joined
Jun 9, 2018
Messages
19,309
Location
A van down by the river
Switch FC
SW-2454-8991-5893
Marx was always supposed to be a creepy character, and I'm glad they went this route. I love it when people see a truly disturbing Kirby boss for the first time.
I'm happy Marx is here tbh. And they represented him perfectly. And his smash original moves suit him like a glove.
 

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
34,013
Location
This Thread
NNID
OpossumGuy
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
What's wrong with the current FE stages? Castle Siege is a staple Smash stage, Arena Ferox is overall a good design that got extra work put into it to give it a quality hazards off form, and Coliseum was forgettable in Wii U but I bet it's going to be one of the best stages in the game for 8 player smash. When I think of which series have high average stage quality in Smash, honestly, FE is near the top of my list probably right behind Pokemon.
It's less about stage layout and more about how Arena Ferox is the only one based on a specific in-game location.
 

Ura

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
12,838
Switch FC
SW-2772-0149-6703
Celica's lack of music could just be something strange as the AW AT was removed and AW has no tracks at all.
Oh thanks for reminding me about that lol.

I'm still pissed about that and I hope it gets rectified somehow.
 

Cosmic77

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
9,547
Location
On a planet far far away...
Switch FC
2166-0541-5238
I'm inclined to believe there's A LOT of misinformation running around about DLC right now. Square rep, everything. I have a feeling. A mighty strong one.
I think the SE rep is right, but we really jumped the gun with Minecraft content. Verge has never came out and said that he believes Steve is in Smash, and he's been extremely hesitant to share information on what he thinks the Minecraft content could be. That's why I've never really had a strong opinion on Steve's chances either way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom