Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Polan]

I did a little more research on Square's content when it comes to their characters appearing in other games. They follow a pattern so far, that I had not really realized until I looked into it some more.

First Cloud in Super Smash Brothers Wii U, he was a DLC character. Cloud came with, two costumes, a stage, two songs, Chocobo Mii outfit & a Geno Mii outfit.

Next is Noctis with the Assasins Creed festival, vs. the small appearance Final Fantasy 15 had in Assassins Creed Origins. In the Assassins Festival Ubisoft clearly gave away a lot, they gave costumes, hidden blade mechanics and even added a whole mission to Square. Then you go to Assassins Creed Origins and all you get is a small appearance by Ardyn and you get Noctis's Engine Blade. Its clear here that Ubisoft gave more to Square, than Square gave to Ubisoft.

Now onto Noctis in Tekken 7, surprisingly Noctis only comes with two songs. He comes with Apocalyptis Noctis and Stand your Ground. Much like in Cloud's situation Square again is being very stingy with their music. The only other content that Noctis came with is his stage and when you bowl in Tekken 7, Gladio Prompto and Ignis are cheering you on. No other character in Tekken when they bowl has other characters cheering them on, so that is a nice touch. We see here Square is using Tekken to promote Final Fantasy 15 and the fact they had DLC passes going on for FF15.

In Monster Hunter World, again Square only allowed to pieces of music in their crossover. Those songs are Kulu Ya Ku theme also known as the Chocobo theme, and Torn from the Heavens (Behemoth Battle Theme). In addition to two songs, Square also let Capcom have a Behemoth boss fight. And armor from Behemoth and Moogle armor. So in another unsurprising move, Square only gives the bare minimum when it comes to their music and their things. Also Square used Monster Hunter World to promote FF14 Heavensward expansion to Final Fantasy 14.

2B in Soul Calibur 6 is hard to say how much music she will come with as she hasn't been released. However if we follow Square's pattern its most likely she will only come with two music tracks. And again we see Square characters as always being DLC and not part of the main game.

Following all of this information we have been given we can sort of determine Square's guest character pattern. And how much content they will give in terms of future Square characters appearing in games that aren't owned or developed by Square.

1) Square only gives two pieces of music each time, when it comes to characters being in games that aren't theirs.

2) Square will give some of their content to the other game company, but very little.

3) Square will use this opportunity to promote their own games, by cross promoting

4) Square's characters are always DLC and they are not part of the main storyline of that game.

5) The characters from Square used in other games that are not owned by Square. Always represent the company, and are still relevant.

reading all of this, i have to wonder what tactics sakurai and nintendo employed to even get them to agree to cloud in the base game instead of just being cut and re-released as dlc or replaced with someone else...

 

[FreeFox]

Sora gets in right, but you only get half of the character model and two songs neither of them are 'Simple and Clean' how do you respond?

*dances in Sanctuary*
My life is complete!

 

[Izayoi]

The two music deal is not true with Monster Hunter World. Besides the Chocobo Theme and Torn from the Heavens, Behemoth also came with Thunderer as the first music used when you fight it for the first time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyfTDbc57E0
https://youtu.be/Nbr4woGgRX8?t=56
So no, it's not always two music tracks only.

By the way, Cactuar is also in Monster Hunter World, as a environmental creature that you can hit to activate it's 1000 Needles attack.

To be fair, licensing FFXIV music might be a lot easier than anything from the past because Nobuo Uematsu's work might have a lot more legal implications than Masayoshi Soken's work.

 

[Idon]

Well, with Persona 3 and 5 Dancing DLC...
All of Megaten can now dance

Why does this exist.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

reading all of this, i have to wonder what tactics sakurai and nintendo employed to even get them to agree to cloud in the base game instead of just being cut and re-released as dlc or replaced with someone else...

All of the DLC characters in 4 were probably negotiated as characters in Ultmate simultaneously. The Cloud in 4 contract probably allowed for this.

 

[LetterO]

Would smaller SE characters such as Neku and Chrono be as much of a struggle to get as Cloud and Sora?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Spoiler: Specific Spirits

So two RARE Spirits got in?
And Ryce says Verge may be wrong about Minecraft rep?
Hm!

Ofcoarse the saddest part of the whole thing

Spoiler

Geno is indeed a spirit and the geno costume is gone

 

[osby]

Are you saying that Crash and Banjo are underwhelming!?

Compared to previous ones? Yes.

Picking two 3D platforming animal mascots from 90s is underwhelming. Bayo, Cloud and Ryu had more genre and age diversity.

 

[Luigi The President]

Also can...someone remind me who Ryce IS, exactly
I know he's a reputable leaker, just...not more than that, due to my memory lol

Ofcoarse the saddest part of the whole thing

Spoiler

Geno is indeed a spirit and the geno costume is gone

Lol I didn't need a reminder

 

[Aixy]

Will you atleast be able to unlock cloud for use in regular smashing by finishing World of Light, even if it's after you've beaten it? Isn't it supposed to unlock every character?

 

[Iridium]

*pushes up nerd glasses* Actually, now that three Persona games have dancing spin-offs...

Can't forget Mario, if you know what I'm referring to...

 

[Idon]

Will you atleast be able to unlock cloud for use in regular smashing by finishing World of Light, even if it's after you've beaten it? Isn't it supposed to unlock every character?

I've been told that the "Cloud absent from WoL" statement was a hoax.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Ouch! a dataminer got the game running.. wow!

Link?

 

[osby]

Why does this exist.

Because this world is worth to live in.

 

[kirbsmash]

*dances in Sanctuary*
My life is complete!

YOU. HAVE. GREAT. TASTE. MY FRIEND,

 

[beans]

Would smaller SE characters such as Neku and Chrono be as much of a struggle to get as Cloud and Sora?

Would Square want them to be used tough?
Maybe Neku (a hard maybe) but Tapion is dead and its corpse got a big X mark on it.
What could this mean?

 

[Pakky]

So I mean IF (which I doubt) spirits deconfirm characters, who is left?

 

[Zeox]

Well, if, and only IF, Porky ends up being a DLC, I want to say that my top 3 of most wanted characters were:
1. Ridley
2. K. Rool
3. Porky
So... um... If Porky is a DLC, you guys may want to convince me to support your most wanted characters, because I may be a wizard.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

So I mean IF (which I doubt) spirits deconfirm characters, who is left?

I think someone made a list a few pages back.

 

[Flyboy]

these dlc lists im seeing are extremely underwhelming. smash ultimate has taken everything from previous games (excpet brawls over-the-top cutscenes) and enhanced it.
i find it hard to believe that smash ultimate dlc would be limited to to Nintendo only characters and characters that have barely been used in their own games as well.

Shoutouts to A.G.L. for a great post about how SE works and not just fearmongering.

"Underwhelming" is subjective. Some people want more Nintendo characters. Some people want third-parties. Some people want both.

To use an example, if Travis Touchdown was revealed as the first DLC character, I would lose my mind and it would be one of the most hype Smash reveals of all time for me. However, for a large portion of the audience, he'd be "oh another swordsman from that new Switch game, that's cool I guess".

And to risk sounding like a broken record, a Style Savvy rep would be an absolute hoot for me since I loved Fashion Forward and think she'd come with fantastic music and lots of humorous moves. But to a lot of the audience people would see her as "that clothes stylist who stole [popular character]'s spot".

Of course I'm sure the GENERAL public would enjoy any character, but in terms of core Smash fandoms we are all different and want different things and have different ideas on what constitutes hype.

 

[Deleted member]

C

Well, if, and only IF, Porky ends up being a DLC, I want to say that my top 3 of most wanted characters were:
1. Ridley
2. K. Rool
3. Porky
So... um... If Porky is a DLC, you guys may want to convince me to support your most wanted characters, because I may be a wizard.

Crash Bandicoot and Sylux pls.

 

[DevaAshera]

I'm just fed up with life

I feel the same way..just this month I've been having...
- my car break down, costing $520
- my licence plate stolen
- health concerns
- possible cancer or tumor concerns
- phone number stolen
- best friend so enthralled by fiancé that he barely talks to me
- money troubles
- and stress due to it all.

Super Smash Bros Ultimate can't come fast enough..

 

[LetterO]

This is a banger. If Sylux does get in, I hope this gets remixed.

 

[Darkbeard]

Spirits (datamined).

Thanks! Wow, that bodes well for BK DLC. Here's to hoping.

 

[ProudNintendofan]

So basically... I guess a lot of other Final Fantasy characters are eligible because Square is super stingy.

 

[Deleted member]

"Underwhelming" is subjective. Some people want more Nintendo characters. Some people want third-parties. Some people want both.

To use an example, if Travis Touchdown was revealed as the first DLC character, I would lose my mind and it would be one of the most hype Smash reveals of all time for me. However, for a large portion of the audience, he'd be "oh another swordsman from that new Switch game, that's cool I guess".

And to risk sounding like a broken record, a Style Savvy rep would be an absolute hoot for me since I loved Fashion Forward and think she'd come with fantastic music and lots of humorous moves. But to a lot of the audience people would see her as "that clothes stylist who stole [popular character]'s spot".

Of course I'm sure the GENERAL public would enjoy any character, but in terms of core Smash fandoms we are all different and want different things and have different ideas on what constitutes hype.

Pal, if this makes you feel better... I would be excited about Travis too.

 

[A.G.L.]

Well now you know not to pay in advance. To be honest I always thought people thought Sub-Zero was the awesomest, regardless of Scorpion being the studio face. About Steve: You know (despite not liking him personally), I think I may got what's the Minecraft thing in Smash. A Mii costume, a sword fighter Mii costume (a mod of that gave me the idea). If Spencer wants to bullseye it he'd go for a Banjo playable, Steve Mii costume and a Minecraft and/or Banjo stage. I don't think any Smash fan would be mad if Steve got in as a Mii costume
Oh and yeah, Nintendo might very much push marketing through those DLCs. Even 3 House.. sigh.

KING Slime, for a week X) and Sora of course. Well, it's up to you. But why go to slumber, personally I want to know everything now. I'm tired of speculating, and if any of my hopes n dreams are to be crushed, I'd rather have that sooner than later. Besides, there's really not much left to mine anyway. I know you wish for music scores, plenty of fans wishes too, but it's only DLCs for the year to come. So yeah, might as well know it all beforehand. I'm with what makes you most comfortable though, so whatever you choose. I hope to see ya often, but if it's Game Awards then see you soon buddy.

... won't you change your mind?

I usually just pay in advance it saves some money, plus despite my outrage of Raiden being in over Static. I always just leave him on a Black Lightning skin so I can pretend he is not in the game and Black Lightning is.

I really doubt Banjo is playable, unless something was revealed in Datamining Smash Ultimate. Banjo didn't get a new game released in the Microsoft event(cant remember the official name) and Reggie de-confirmed a N64 mini right now. So any relevancy Banjo would have right now has been dramatically reduced. I still think if its a Microsoft rep, its going to be Steve. Smash fans wouldn't be made if Steve is a costume, but the facts point to him being a character over costume unfortunately. Yeah I really see Nintendo pushing for a Three Houses rep, but we will see.

I have to admit, I think Sora's chances took a hit. I saw Ralph Breaks the Internet and no Mario/Nintendo reference in sight. Very odd considering legally Disney could not have been playing that Mario Kart song in the Ralph exhibit unless they legally were allowed to. So theres definitely some sort of mystery going on there. However this partnership between Disney and Nintendo would have greatly improved Sora's chances. I still think he could get in, but I admit he has a lower chance now. After further thinking about it, I will still be on the Smashboards. However I wont be as frequent, because Im really trying not to be spoiled in terms of story. Music I do not mind, but story is where I do not want to be spoiled.

 

[KMDP]

Well, with Persona 3 and 5 Dancing DLC...
All of Megaten can now dance
Why does this exist.

I didn't know Ikue Otani voiced Morgana in the Japanese dub of P5.

It's so strange hearing Chopper's voice sing the praises of Ann.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So I mean IF (which I doubt) spirits deconfirm characters, who is left?

Porky
Rhythm Girl and Tibby
Sylux

Just a couple I can think of

 

[Izayoi]

"Underwhelming" is subjective. Some people want more Nintendo characters. Some people want third-parties. Some people want both.

To use an example, if Travis Touchdown was revealed as the first DLC character, I would lose my mind and it would be one of the most hype Smash reveals of all time for me. However, for a large portion of the audience, he'd be "oh another swordsman from that new Switch game, that's cool I guess".

And to risk sounding like a broken record, a Style Savvy rep would be an absolute hoot for me since I loved Fashion Forward and think she'd come with fantastic music and lots of humorous moves. But to a lot of the audience people would see her as "that clothes stylist who stole [popular character]'s spot".

Of course I'm sure the GENERAL public would enjoy any character, but in terms of core Smash fandoms we are all different and want different things and have different ideas on what constitutes hype.

So basically, the Smash fandom is composed of people who feel their character(s) are entitled to join the fray over any other character that actually makes it in.




And then send death threats to anyone who likes the character that made it in and/or to Nintendo/Sakurai because they really want ___ to be in.

 

[Idon]

I didn't know Ikue Otani voiced Morgana in the Japanese dub of P5.

It's so strange hearing Chopper's voice sing the praises of Ann.

In English this:

is the same VA as

It's SUPER distracting when you find out.

 

[kirbsmash]

I didn't know Ikue Otani voiced Morgana in the Japanese dub of P5.

It's so strange hearing Chopper's voice sing the praises of Ann.

Pikachu.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Thanks! Wow, that bodes well for BK DLC. Here's to hoping.

Only first party has high grounds 3rd party needs more support

Sylux and porky get the biggest boats

Sylux for promoting prime 4 depending on how big his role is in that game and don’t forget that’s how Corrin got in promoting a game that hasn’t come out yet

Porky because he was a boss before and absence is suspicious

 

[Camc10]

buffed up computers.

What do you get from training them though? in 4 you got Coins, Equipment, Trophies, and Customs.

 

[doomedtacox]

So I mean IF (which I doubt) spirits deconfirm characters, who is left?

Steve
Edelgard
Slime
Monster Hunter
Pokemon gen 8

That's what I'm thinking.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

If even 3rd parties exist, who else would they honestly add without turning it into Mugen?

There’s gotta be limits such as their series being on Nintendo system (series, not characters so don’t bother bringing up )

I mean what else aside from Banjo, Minecraft, ToS, KH, DQ, Crash, Spyro, Doom, Halo, Persona, TWEWY, Tekken, and MK?

Phoenix Wright for starters. They'd have to do insane things like making Ronald McDonald playable before Smash becomes legit comparable to MUGEN, come on now.

 

[Luigi The President]

Only first party has high grounds 3rd party needs more support

Sylux and porky get the biggest boats

Sylux for promoting prime 4 depending on how big his role is in that game and don’t forget that’s how Corrin got in promoting a game that hasn’t come out yet

Porky because he was a boss before and absence is suspicious

Not sure how we can have "well this character's very likely because he'd be a promo pick" and then the other character seen as likely is Porky
Pick one

 

[KMDP]

Pikachu.

I'm well aware of Ikue Otani's primary role.

But Chopper actually talks, and she uses the same voice for Morgana as she does for Chopper.

 

[LetterO]

So I mean IF (which I doubt) spirits deconfirm characters, who is left?

-Cross from Xenoblade X
-Tibby from Rhythm Heaven Megamix
-Sylux from Metroid Prime Hunters
-Adeline from Kirby
-Porky from Earthbound

 

[GoeGoe]

"Reminisce", you say?
Let's listen to some screams.

Thank you
Lul. Math and Tit OMG

I did a little more research on Square's content when it comes to their characters appearing in other games. They follow a pattern so far, that I had not really realized until I looked into it some more.

First Cloud in Super Smash Brothers Wii U, he was a DLC character. Cloud came with, two costumes, a stage, two songs, Chocobo Mii outfit & a Geno Mii outfit.

Next is Noctis with the Assasins Creed festival, vs. the small appearance Final Fantasy 15 had in Assassins Creed Origins. In the Assassins Festival Ubisoft clearly gave away a lot, they gave costumes, hidden blade mechanics and even added a whole mission to Square. Then you go to Assassins Creed Origins and all you get is a small appearance by Ardyn and you get Noctis's Engine Blade. Its clear here that Ubisoft gave more to Square, than Square gave to Ubisoft.

Now onto Noctis in Tekken 7, surprisingly Noctis only comes with two songs. He comes with Apocalyptis Noctis and Stand your Ground. Much like in Cloud's situation Square again is being very stingy with their music. The only other content that Noctis came with is his stage and when you bowl in Tekken 7, Gladio Prompto and Ignis are cheering you on. No other character in Tekken when they bowl has other characters cheering them on, so that is a nice touch. We see here Square is using Tekken to promote Final Fantasy 15 and the fact they had DLC passes going on for FF15.

In Monster Hunter World, again Square only allowed to pieces of music in their crossover. Those songs are Kulu Ya Ku theme also known as the Chocobo theme, and Torn from the Heavens (Behemoth Battle Theme). In addition to two songs, Square also let Capcom have a Behemoth boss fight. And armor from Behemoth and Moogle armor. So in another unsurprising move, Square only gives the bare minimum when it comes to their music and their things. Also Square used Monster Hunter World to promote FF14 Heavensward expansion to Final Fantasy 14.

2B in Soul Calibur 6 is hard to say how much music she will come with as she hasn't been released. However if we follow Square's pattern its most likely she will only come with two music tracks. And again we see Square characters as always being DLC and not part of the main game.

Following all of this information we have been given we can sort of determine Square's guest character pattern. And how much content they will give in terms of future Square characters appearing in games that aren't owned or developed by Square.

1) Square only gives two pieces of music each time, when it comes to characters being in games that aren't theirs.

2) Square will give some of their content to the other game company, but very little.

3) Square will use this opportunity to promote their own games, by cross promoting

4) Square's characters are always DLC and they are not part of the main storyline of that game.

5) The characters from Square used in other games that are not owned by Square. Always represent the company, and are still relevant.

Hi.. welcome back O/
So in short, the bare minimum. I don't appreciate dealing with such.. uugh.
Those were excellent 5 point summary. All goes for Geno except #5. The thing is, what's that character tha's goo... ohhh! wait, I get it now. I get why the first rep is a Square one.
You see, Nintendo had to start with the worst DLC deal. The deal with only TWO music pieces. They can't keep that for later, otherwise people will complain and might not purchase that DLC. But keeping it first, the other 4 will look like a bargain in comparsion. Those sneaky companies.
So.. (!! Why am I getting so many alerts!?).. anyway, what matches that perfectly is another stingy act. Dragon Quest :D Since there're not that many good piece, only 2 will do, plus it's recent.
Ohh, let's end this and know who that Square rep is :/ Come on leakers, dataminers.. do some magic.