Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pakky]

Because I’m tired of all these GOSH DARN FIRE TYPES
Game freak has a fire type bias, water and grass need more representation

There is Greninja.

But honestly I've never gotten the 'Shoe in" status for Decidueye

He's cool, yes and an archer in Pokemon is super unique. The only problem with him in the games is, well, he's kinda bad.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

How has nobody even mentioned Zeraora? I figured that'd be the hot topic of the day.
EDIT: Sorry for calling him Zeroark. I'm drunk.

I thought we talked about it a decent amount last night when it was revealed.

I do think Zeraora has more going for it than some people give it credit for, though it'll probably just be a Pokeball at the end of the day. That being said, I'm not convinced typing has anything to do with how Sakurai picks Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't mind if they followed a system like they do with Splatoon or ARMS where they gradually include new content. I love that type of DLC system because it's free and encourages long term playing.

But if that isn't possible, all I'm asking is to avoid the crap that companies like Arc System Works does where they penny and dime you over even the most mundane features and inflate the cost of character DLC.

If I see DLC end up being like Arc System Works where they deliberately hold back characters to squeeze every penny out of fans, I'm not buying this game. I have a zero tolerance policy on on-disc DLC that's already complete. No amount of newcomers and veterans that I want will make me forgo my principles.

Thankfully I don't see Smash doing that.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If I see DLC end up being like Arc System Works where they deliberately hold back characters to squeeze every penny out of fans, I'm not buying this game. I have a zero tolerance policy on on-disc DLC that's already complete. No amount of newcomers and veterans that I want will make me forgo my principles.

Thankfully I don't see Smash doing that.

Pretty sure Sakurai has made comments about that specific issue in gaming and how he doesn't like it. The only way I see it happening like that is if Nintendo forces him to, and they don't seem to have a track record for doing that sort of thing.

 

[Starcutter]

This is going to be a Chrom situation again, isn't it?


(What I mean is everyone expects decidueye but we get someone else entirely)

 

[Deleted member]

As for Incineroar, I think he'd be an incredibly interesting choice... if not for the fact that we've already got one fire-based grappling heel in Smash in the form of Bowser. Yeah, Bowser's not a full grappler like Incineroar could be, but there's no doubt they fill similar niches.

That's literally just like saying we already got both Pit and Dark Pit to fill the niche of the winged dorky archer that tries to act cool.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

This is going to be a Chrom situation again, isn't it?


(What I mean is everyone expects decidueye but we get someone else entirely)

That's what I think is going to happen, but I have no concrete reason to believe that. I just don't want to believe Sakurai is going to pick this painfully obvious Pokemon.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The funny thing about Dr. Mario is he's easy to make even further of a difference from Mario. There's a lot of stuff you can work with with a medical professional who is also a puzzle game.

And he's iconic enough to deserve a spot on his own merits.

 

[DraginHikari]

If I see DLC end up being like Arc System Works where they deliberately hold back characters to squeeze every penny out of fans, I'm not buying this game. I have a zero tolerance policy on on-disc DLC that's already complete. No amount of newcomers and veterans that I want will make me forgo my principles.

Thankfully I don't see Smash doing that.

The funny thing is Nintendo is often accused of being stuck in the past. This can be a bad thing when it comes to many things but it usually means it takes them much longer to adopted some of the industry's less... savory practices lol.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I thought we talked about it a decent amount last night when it was revealed.

I do think Zeraora has more going for it than some people give it credit for, though it'll probably just be a Pokeball at the end of the day.

Oh, I thought it was this morning.

And really? A Pokeball? He's going to have a major role in a Pokemon movie that's being scheduled to release the same year as Super Smash Bros. Seems like his inclusions would be a smart move by GameFreak.

Dataminers found him in 2017. So it's very likely there was concept art by the time Sakurai made the roster. As Greninja was included in 2012. A year before his debut.

 

[MrReyes96]

Oh, I thought it was this morning.

And really? A Pokeball? He's going to have a major role in a Pokemon movie that's being scheduled to release the same year as Super Smash Bros. Seems like his inclusions would be a smart move by GameFreak.

Dataminers found him in 2017. So it's very likely there was concept art by the time Sakurai made the roster. As Greninja was included in 2012. A year before his debut.

Same thing happened with genesect and zoroark.

And I think people think decidueye is so likely because of the anime and because we don’t have any grass Pokémon in smash, having one would mean we finally have a starter trio of each type.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That's what I think is going to happen, but I have no concrete reason to believe that. I just don't want to believe Sakurai is going to pick this painfully obvious Pokemon.

What's wrong with picking obvious characters? Lucario was pretty obvious.

 

[Danpal65]

Oh, I thought it was this morning.

And really? A Pokeball? He's going to have a major role in a Pokemon movie that's being scheduled to release the same year as Super Smash Bros. Seems like his inclusions would be a smart move by GameFreak.

Dataminers found him in 2017. So it's very likely there was concept art by the time Sakurai made the roster. As Greninja was included in 2012. A year before his debut.

Aside form Mewtwo though we have never had a legendary Pokémon be a playable character in Smash, regardless of when movies have come out. The reason Mewtwo was chosen was that he was super popular as well. There would have been no way to gauge that with Zeraora as, technically, it was only revealed yesterday.

I guess it is kinda comparable to the Greninja situation, like you said, but starter Pokémon usually have a much stronger following than other Pokémon because they are so important to that games story and the players experience. This is also probably why Decidueye has an edge for this game.

Edit: That and Decidueye has been pushed in other media forms as well.

 

[Pakky]

Same thing happened with genesect and zoroark.

And I think people think decidueye is so likely because of the anime

But Ash doesn't have one, he as a Torracat.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Same thing happened with genesect and zoroark.

Zoroark and Genesect were Gen 5. Not Gen 6.

And I think people think decidueye is so likely because of the anime and because we don’t have any grass Pokémon in smash, having one would mean we finally have a starter trio of each type.

What's his significance to the Anime?

 

[Deleted member]

Same thing happened with genesect and zoroark.

And I think people think decidueye is so likely because of the anime and because we don’t have any grass Pokémon in smash, having one would mean we finally have a starter trio of each type.

Literally how?
The only Decidueye we've seen in the anime was this one.

And it only made a brief appearance in a more recent episode.

So how exactly did the anime influence anyone?

Edit: That and Decidueye has been pushed in other media forms as well.

Other than Pokken, please name me such media. The last person I questioned on this when he made the claim never responded.
EDIT: I CAN'T GRAMMAR FOR **** RIGHT NOW. DX

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty sure Sakurai has made comments about that specific issue in gaming and how he doesn't like it. The only way I see it happening like that is if Nintendo forces him to, and they don't seem to have a track record for doing that sort of thing.

Nintendo has done shady stuff with DLC before so this isn't beneath them.

Samus Returns has a catch in that in order to get the extras that you would normally get by completing the game, you have to buy the Amiibos which rings up at $12.99 each last time I check. The thought of spending two 3DS's games worth for the game and three Amiibos just to have everything is insane and that turned me off the game. Also Fates' handling of DLC was shady which turned me off of buying that game too.

As exciting as the prospect of potentially more DLC sounds, I don't want any of it to come at the expense of the main game which should be 100% out of the box.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Aside form Mewtwo though we have never had a legendary Pokémon be a playable character in Smash, regardless of when movies have come out. The reason Mewtwo was chosen was that he was super popular as well. There would have been no way to gauge that with Zeraora as, technically, it was only revealed yesterday.

Zeraora was discovered via datamining WAY back in 2017.

I guess it is kinda comparable to the Greninja situation, like you said, but starter Pokémon usually have a much stronger following than other Pokémon because they are so important to that games story and the players experience. This is also probably why Decidueye has an edge for this game.

I mean a mythical Pokemon who plays a major role in a movie seems like a pretty good rival for that. Also he's a Pokemon from the most recent Pokemon game. Seems like a good promotion for Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon (which this Pokemon is exclusive to.)

 

[Staarih]

Literally how?

Decidueye's two second appearance in the Incineroar-episode of all things sure did push the owl in the spotlight /jk

Anyway, it'll be super interesting to see how Pokémon will be handled this time around. The longer we go about without a new game announcement, the more it looks like a Gen 7 Pokémon might make it. And for such a low number of new Pokémon introduced in that generation, it has a surprising amount of good options for Smash-newcomers.

 

[Troykv]

I had no idea who this was, so I'm gonna say she's not big enough for a TP rep, haha

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Arbitrary List of Candidates (not necessarily likely, just characters that could fit the bill of playable):

Mario

• Captain Toad / Toad
• Waluigi
• Paper Mario

DK

• Dixie Kong
• King K. Rool

Legend of Zelda

• Impa
• Skull Kid
• Alt version of existing rep (Toon Zelda, Beast Ganon, etc)

Metroid

• Ridley
• Dark Samus

Fire Emblem

• Someone from FE16
• Lyn / Micaiah / Celia / etc

Kid Icarus

• One of the villains I suppose

Kirby

• Waddle Dee
• Marx

Star Fox

• Wolf O'Donnell
• Slippy

Pokemon

• Decidueye / random Gen 7 surprise

EarthBound

• Giygas / Porky

F-Zero

• Gorah / Shadow

Animal Crossing

• Isabelle

Pikmin

• Alph (maybe as a semi-clone)

Xenoblade

• Elma
• Rex & Pyra

Retro

• Takamaru
• Mach Rider
• Excitebike

I'm glad you have liked my opinions <3

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Zeraora is basically the dream as far as playable Pokemon go for me. He's an electric cat, and my player tag is Thundrcatz, as seen in my profile picture. I personally think he has a decent chance, as he was obviously created a long time ago, and Pokemon Company obviously have had plans to make him important in a movie when they created him. Buuut, as people have pointed out, these late-reveal Pokemon are historically Pokeball mons, like Genesect and Deoxys. I REALLY want Zeraora, as I find him conceptually incredible, but I'm not holding my breath for it one bit.

 

[Danpal65]

Zeraora was discovered via datamining WAY back in 2017.


I mean a mythical Pokemon who plays a major role in a movie seems like a pretty good rival for that. Also he's a Pokemon from the most recent Pokemon game. Seems like a good promotion for Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon (which this Pokemon is exclusive to.)

Oh, yeah, I know it was discovered back in 2017, it is just that officially it has only just been revealed, so the general Pokémon community, who would not necessarily follow any Pokétubers or check Serebii would not know about it until now.

It does have a significant movie role, but so have many other legendary/mythical Pokémon. I've just checked and the movie also does not release in Japan until July and there is no official English release date, so the movie is still a fair ways off, hence so would the distribution.

I think in terms of it being a marketing push for USUM it is pretty far past that since we will be getting into Gen 8 hype from E3 onwards. So we will more likely see representation over hype material, which Zeraora does not necessarily fulfil since it was not in the original Sun and Moon games at all.

That being said it is still possible that Zeraora will be the Gen 7 rep, and I would not be opposed, I just do not think it is that likely.

 

[FlareHabanero]

This is going to be a Chrom situation again, isn't it?


(What I mean is everyone expects decidueye but we get someone else entirely)

I don't expect Decidueye, but that's mainly because Gen 7 is ripe for potential picks. If anything I would expect Mimikyu since the Pokemon company has been pushing that Pokemon in particular, such as Mimikyu having a dedicated song, appearing in those Pikachu marches as a sort of meta-joke, being a prominent character in the anime, having an assortment of merchandise, and so on.

But this might be my bias talking, since I like the meta implications of Mimikyu being a playable character in Super Smash Bros.

 

[MrReyes96]

I know Ash has a rowlet in the anime I thought it might’ve evolved into Decidueye by now, either way the simple fact that we lack a grass type is enough to make him a better choice than any other starter. Unless they give us sceptile which I doubt

 

[ColietheGoalie]

For each design you criticize as being "I'm fuzzy and I punch things", you completely miss out on what makes the Pokémon special.

Zeraora for example is nothing like Lucario.
Lucario fights by utilizing martial arts imbued with Aura energy (and ironically, doesn't throw a single punch in Smash; only palm strikes). Zeraora zips around like a bolt of lightning and rips opponents to shreds with its electrified claws like a feral beast.

Same with the likes of Incineroar. It's a brutish grappler that utilizes wrestling techniques. Something not seen in Smash yet, let alone among the Pokémon. And the grappler archetype is a common one in fighting games that hasn't been featured in Smash yet.

Obviously I'm being a bit reductive with my descriptions, which doesn't do the characters justice.

Look, Mewtwo is one of my favorite fighters, and Lucario/Greninja are also some of my go-to's. But there are 700+ designs that they could go with, so it would be a little sad to see them go with "wrestling cat" or "electric cat" or "rock wolf." Nothing wrong with those characters, and I'm sure people have reasons for loving them. I'd just prefer something a little more out there, that's all.

 

[vaanrose]

I wish for once a cute Pokemon would become the fan favorite shoo-in.

 

[Danpal65]

I wish for once a cute Pokemon would become the fan favorite shoo-in.

Alrighty guys, Cutiefly for Smash!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Zeraora is basically the dream as far as playable Pokemon go for me. He's an electric cat, and my player tag is Thundrcatz, as seen in my profile picture. I personally think he has a decent chance, as he was obviously created a long time ago, and Pokemon Company obviously have had plans to make him important in a movie when they created him. Buuut, as people have pointed out, these late-reveal Pokemon are historically Pokeball mons, like Genesect and Deoxys. I REALLY want Zeraora, as I find him conceptually incredible, but I'm not holding my breath for it one bit.

I don't understand how two people failed to see the flaw in this logic.

Deoxys wasn't Gen 4. Lucario was.
Genesect wasn't Gen 6. Greninja was.

That's why they didn't get in. Zereora is actually from the generation that's going to be focused on in Super Smash Bros.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I wish for once a cute Pokemon would become the fan favorite shoo-in.

I'm still down to heavily support Bewear. Join me, and together we'll spread word of our cute, giant, tanooki savior.

 

[Danpal65]

I'm still down to heavily support Bewear. Join me, and together we'll spread word of our cute, giant, tanooki savior.

Bewear would be pretty cool, and it does have a presence in the anime. However, I honestly think that Bewear would make an excellent Pokéball Pokémon.

It would be sent out then chase opponents before wrapping them in a vice-like hug that does damage. The opponent would have have the button mash to break free. Bewear would do this for a bit then disappear.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Bewear would be pretty cool, and it does have a presence in the anime. However, I honestly think that Bewear would make an excellent Pokéball Pokémon.

It would be sent out then chase opponents before wrapping them in a vice-like hug that does damage. The opponent would have have the button mash to break free. Bewear would do this for a bit then disappear.

I've said the same thing 200 some pages back lol. I would love to see Bewear do that stuff and look happy as can be while doing it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Oh, yeah, I know it was discovered back in 2017, it is just that officially it has only just been revealed, so the general Pokémon community, who would not necessarily follow any Pokétubers or check Serebii would not know about it until now.

Nobody even knew Greninja existed when he was chosen.

Zereora's movie is being released the same year as Super Smash Bros. How is that anything less than perfect timing?

It does have a significant movie role, but so have many other legendary/mythical Pokémon.

None of which were from the generation represented in Super Smash Bros. Which is why they weren't. That's three people who don't understand the massive hole in this logic.

Like it doesn't take much sleuthing. Deoxys and Genesect weren't in Smash because they weren't from the corresponding generation. Zerearoa is. Notice the difference?

I've just checked and the movie also does not release in Japan until July and there is no official English release date, so the movie is still a fair ways off, hence so would the distribution.

I don't see how this is the least bit relevant.

I think in terms of it being a marketing push for USUM it is pretty far past that since we will be getting into Gen 8 hype from E3 onwards.

There's not going to be a Gen 8 Pokemon in Smash.

So we will more likely see representation over hype material, which Zeraora does not necessarily fulfil since it was not in the original Sun and Moon games at all.

Which is why he's a better option. He promotes the newest games. The Ultra games.

That being said it is still possible that Zeraora will be the Gen 7 rep, and I would not be opposed, I just do not think it is that likely.

He's probably the most likely.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I wish for once a cute Pokemon would become the fan favorite shoo-in.

I mean I definitely think Mimikyu is kinda adorable and personally I think he's just as much of a fan fav from that generation as Decidueye.

He's the darkhorse of that generation of Pokemon. I can see Sakurai forgoing the ''complete the starter types!" thing everyone is craving and going for the attempt at creating a Pikachu spin-off that actually did resonate with the fanbase.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

He's probably the most likely.

Well I hope you're a prophet.

 

[Danpal65]

Nobody even knew Greninja existed when he was chosen.

Zereora's movie is being released the same year as Super Smash Bros. How is that anything less than perfect timing?


None of which were from the generation represented in Super Smash Bros. Which is why they weren't. That's three people who don't understand the massive hole in this logic.

Like it doesn't take much sleuthing. Deoxys and Genesect weren't in Smash because they weren't from the corresponding generation. Zerearoa is. Notice the difference?


I don't see how this is the least bit relevant.


There's not going to be a Gen 8 Pokemon in Smash.


Which is why he's a better option. He promotes the newest games. The Ultra games.


He's probably the most likely.

I kinda feel like the meaning of what I said would make more sense if it was not broken up and analysed bit by bit...

Anyways! My point about Greninja was that it is a starter Pokémon, a type of Pokémon that is almost always popular amongst a large group of fans so it was a safe bet that people would like it.

My point about Gen 8 was not that I expected a Gen 8 mon in this game, I think that will wait until DLC, the point I was trying to make was that Gen 7 is done now so for representation in Smash it would make sense to choose a Pokémon that showcases the whole generation not just USUM. Zeraora does not do this as it has nothing to do with the original Sun and Moon.

Again, I think he is possible. Most likely? Probably not. The likes of Decidueye, Lycanroc (any form), Mimikyu and, heck, Bewear are just as, if not more likely than Zeraora.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well I hope you're a prophet.

I am. I predicted the Inklings would be in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't expect Decidueye, but that's mainly because Gen 6 is ripe for potential picks.

But we already got Greninja. :V

Though Hawlucha would be cool too.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

An interesting thing about Zeraora that separates it from the other playable Pokemon is that we don't have a Mythic Legendary. We just have Mewtwo as a standard legendary. Yeah, that's just semantics, but that still makes it different as they even classify differently in the Pokedex in S/M/USUM.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Did Hawlucha ever show up in Pokken? Because if not that’s a crime and if should be fixed in Smash.

 

[Danpal65]

Did Hawlucha ever show up in Pokken? Because if not that’s a crime and if should be fixed in Smash.

Best call the police then. Hawlucha had no such luck.