Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Hinata]

I don't doubt that they're both popular characters. I just don't see them as likely candidates since their appearance was over 6 years ago.

Little Mac's last appearance was 5 years before Smash 4, and the Wii Fit Trainer was 7. I don't think time frames would affect KI:U characters, especially since they're characters created by Sakurai.

 

[Danpal65]

Little Mac's last appearance was 5 years before Smash 4, and the Wii Fit Trainer was 7. I don't think time frames would affect KI:U characters, especially since they're characters created by Sakurai.

Just a little nitpick; Wii Fit trainer also appeared in Wii Fit U, which came out in 2013.

 

[Hinata]

Just a little nitpick; Wii Fit trainer also appeared in Wii Fit U, which came out in 2013.

Ah, whoops. Well, I think the point still stands.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I hope they do reveal trailers for veterans this time.

Tagging a Wii Fit Trainer reveal on the end of a new Fit game for Switch would be great.

That software sells well so I don't see how they would stop making them just because of the way the Switch operates compared to the Wii.

 

[Danpal65]

Ah, whoops. Well, I think the point still stands.

Yeah, I think so.

 

[New_Dumal]

I'm sad... This is bad news for Travis.
I can see a lot of ways to say that he wanted Travis without "spoiling" that is about to happen.
But it seems that... there is no way of spoiling... because there is no Travis
https://www.dualshockers.com/suda51...g-travis-touchdown-upcoming-super-smash-bros/

Travis would be one of the most stylish characters to ever Smash.I dreamed about a implementation where he always needs to charge his laser blade (fast and manageable charge) after any three moves, but no move takes less than 12% damage...

 

[Danpal65]

I'm sad... This is bad news for Travis.
I can see a lot of ways to say that he wanted Travis without "spoiling" that is about to happen.
But it seems that... there is no way of spoiling... because there is no Travis
https://www.dualshockers.com/suda51...g-travis-touchdown-upcoming-super-smash-bros/

Travis would be one of the most stylish characters to ever Smash.I dreamed about a implementation where he always needs to charge his laser blade (fast and manageable charge) after any three moves, but no move takes less than 12% damage...

So this is probably as close as we have been since Smash was announced to having a character properly deconfirmed for this game, at least in the base roster.

I have not played any No More Heroes games myself, but I can see that Travis would certainly have been a unique character and personality on the roster.


RIP Travis for Smash.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Actually I like to ask everyone what they think DLC for Smash 5 would be like.

First 3 characters free followed by 5.99 per character?

 

[Danpal65]

Actually I like to ask everyone what they think DLC for Smash 5 would be like.

First 3 characters free followed by 5.99 per character?

I think since they charged for Mewtwo and Lucas for Sm4sh it is pretty unlikely we will get any characters for free. Although it would be nice if we could pay like $20-30 for a season pass and that would cover all their plans for DLC characters.

We could have something like:
Wave 1: 3 months after game release, 2 characters 3 stages
Wave 2: 6 months after game release, 1 character 4 stages
Wave 3: 9 months after release, 2 characters, 3 stages

That way each character is around $4-5 and stages are a fair bit less.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So this is probably as close as we have been since Smash was announced to having a character properly deconfirmed for this game, at least in the base roster.

I have not played any No More Heroes games myself, but I can see that Travis would certainly have been a unique character and personality on the roster.


RIP Travis for Smash.

All it means is... it's up to Sakurai instead? This isn't a real disconfirmation, just saying they didn't add him, and it's not like they could say they did due to NDA.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

I was thinking because Splatoon and ARMS both had free content updates Smash might get some too.

Obviously there will be a limit of free content, but I don't think it too far out considering maybe Smash 5 might have limited new content in the base game.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Actually I like to ask everyone what they think DLC for Smash 5 would be like.

First 3 characters free followed by 5.99 per character?

I wouldn't mind if they followed a system like they do with Splatoon or ARMS where they gradually include new content. I love that type of DLC system because it's free and encourages long term playing.

But if that isn't possible, all I'm asking is to avoid the crap that companies like Arc System Works does where they penny and dime you over even the most mundane features and inflate the cost of character DLC.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Actually I like to ask everyone what they think DLC for Smash 5 would be like.

First 3 characters free followed by 5.99 per character?

I'm doubting we'll get anything for free...however I think we're probably going to get even more DLC than last time due to
a.) The Switch selling much better than the Wii U,
b.) Smash being introduced relatively early into the consoles lifespan,
c.) Games like Hyrule Warriors, Fire Emblem, etc proved people will pay for additional content if it's good stuff
d.) Splatoon's continual support turned out to be a big success
e.) Smash is an easy sell and makes the moneys

I'd be willing to bet that by the end of Smash Switch's lifespan with DLC included it'll end up with the most newcomers of any Smash game to date.

 

[Danpal65]

I was thinking because Splatoon and ARMS both had free content updates Smash might get some too.

Obviously there will be a limit of free content, but I don't think it too far out considering maybe Smash 5 might have limited new content in the base game.

I think the difference between Splatoon and Smash is the amount of development time that goes into a Smash character. I guess is is more comparable to ARMS, but again Smash characters are a lot more complex and have to interact with a much larger roster of characters. ARMS characters only really need a model, their ability/gimick worked out and balanced, then three sets of arms for them to use.

It would be great if we could get Smash characters using the same model as Splatoon and ARMS, but I just do not think that the time and effort that goes into a single Smash character is something that Nintendo values as being free content.

 

[Deleted member]

Things that I am shocked that they did not do that they should do is....
Make a darn Bowser's Castle Stage.
Give Mewtwo its armor alt.
Give the DK series an Assist trophy.

Sakurai had a mech with a rifle?

Well clearly it was for..

That joke is not funny at all.
You do know that joke comes off as offensive? I mean the event was horrific and a tragedy. Jokes like these should not be made at all.

Not gonna lie.

The more I think about it, the more I want Elma as a character.

She'd be dope.

Hmm... the more I think about it, the more I want Elma as a character as well.
How about we add Elma, Rex, Pyra and Mythra as newcomers?

 

[Deleted member]

I meant it more so that Decidueye is the face of Gen 7 predictions around here, but it really could be anyone.

Honestly, I'd be fine with Decidueye (he was the only starter I liked in Gen 7), but there are 100's of neat designs to choose from, so I just hope they go with something that's not "bipedal animal with a cool attitude"

....then you don't want Decidueye.

Things that I am shocked that they did not do that they should do is
Give Mewtwo its armor alt.

Never going to happen unless it appears in the games.
And even then, it would only happen if GameFreak/The Pokémon Company allowed it. And considering we don't officially have any legitimate Shiny Pokémon palettes likely due to them.....what are the odds they would allow Armored Mewtwo?

 

[FlareHabanero]

....then you don't want Decidueye.

Decidueye is kind of a dork honestly, in the sense that it tries too hard to be cold sniper but it's facade gets broken on the occasion.

This is probably most blatant in Pokken Torunament.

I don't know, but to me anyway I never got the impression that Decidueye had the same "attitude".

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Since Smash5 was announced I always supported that Captain Toad was better than "Toad" as a newcomer.
But I'm starting to feel the other way. With Toad as a character the moveset potential goes much higher.
It solves the "can't jump" problem too. I like Toad... I think C.Toad is the stylish version, but Toad is cool enough.
Also Toad is playable in a lot of stuff, even main games, from Super Mario Bros 2 to New Super Mario Bros Wii(and U) and Super Mario 3D World. Peach's neutral B could turn into something of "Super Princess Peach".
Still wanting to see the captain, but I think "Toad" is a better option to Smash right now.

How does Toad have more potential? You haven't mentioned anything he can do.

1. There is no "can't jump" problem. You can recover without "jumping". You can animate a character jumping without him actually jumping. Captain Toad can just have an animation where he's abducted by Wingo or Flaptor in place of him jumping: https://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Captain-Toad-Treasure-Tracker-3.jpg
2. You mentioned plucking turnips, but if there's a version of Toad that's known for plucking and throwing turnips, it's Captain Toad.
3. I just can't stress how much Toad over Captain Toad is a bad idea. Captain Toad is an actual character with an actual personality. Nothing has changed for Toad so he isn't any more likely now than he ever was. Whereas Captain Toad is actually a significant character in the 2014-2016 era of Nintendo.
4. If you use the generic version of Toad, you forfeit his ability to appropriately reference Captain Toad. The only source of personality and source material to make Toad an interesting SSB fighter.
5. Captain Toad has plenty of source material. Infinitely more than Toad. Pick Axe, Turnips, Wingo, Headlamp, Small Toad, Cannon, Double Cherries, Keys, Other Toad Brigade Members,.

Captain Toad is just oozing with material for moves, taunts, stages, music, trophies, victory poses/themes, personality, references, and all of which are tied to a specific game. It's stuff that's actually original to him and not forced into a character that doesn't have it (Toad).

This is a character who's actually done something as of late worthy of notice. It is the golden opportunity to make Toad the best he can be as a Super Smash Bros fighter. To sell him short and make him a generic Toad, the same generic Toad that was used as a human shield, who people are so desperate to make a move set for that they give him Mario Kart items, is truly a slap in the face to both Toad and Super Smash Bros as well as the cast of the game.

And it's an even bigger slap in the face if you try to suggest that he have these things without being Captain Toad.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Needing to summon a giant bird to abduct you whenever you jump seems very impractical. I could understand it if it was a recovery move, but for the standard jumping..... no

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Made a new prediction roster in note of this new discoveries I made about Elma possibly being in Smash:

Roster is still in beta mode, but I feel like I am reach closer to Sakurai's newcomer project plan.



Good point. I kinda wanna see Elma utilize the Formula Skell though, because it is the most iconic Skell and the most cool looking.


With the internet being more reactionary lately, it would be more x3 salty than Ike back in his reveal in Brawl.

I am personally banking on transformations returning with 3DS limitations no longer being an issue, even though Sakurai has said several statements about how standalone characters work better in Smash 4. I think Sakurai will try to redo the transformation concept in a way that is not detrimental and easy to pull off without removing any special moves from characters like Sheik/Zelda or putting any gimmicks (like with PKMN Trainer's stamina

A few things here, Blue. I am not intending any of this to be rude, so please do not take it that way.

First of all, I liked the colored icons of the roster. It definitely makes it colorful.

Here's the thing with transformations...they are better off separated. The problem with Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS being transformations wasn't just the data capacity, it was the logic. In Brawl, people picked Zelda to play Sheik. Zelda is bad, and Sheik is overall the better character. There's no point in having the transformation if the concept doesn't work in practice. It was the same thing with Samus and Zero Suit. ZSS was ultimately considered better than Samus in Brawl, and they even fleshed out ZSS in Wii U/3DS to further establish her as her own thing. There is, and I hope you consider this, very little way to make the gameplay work beyond the "gimmick" of the transformation. They don't need a gimmick on top of the transformation gimmick. At that point it's tacky and far too complicated.

To further this, let's consider Zelda. I myself am convinced she's getting overhauled into Breath of the Wild Zelda, and would have a far different moveset, faster speed, and different concept. Part of the problem with Zelda in Wii U was that the majority of her moveset was meant to be a bit of an opposite to Sheik, who is weaker, but faster and more combo oriented. They aren't together anymore, and the TP style would heavily clash with a Breath of the Wild Link. It would make even less sense to put them back together.

Next, Pokemon Trainer. Again, this transformation should stay dead. If you want to bring back Squirtle and Ivysaur, to each their own. But the whole stamina idea was another that really just didn't pan out the way it was intended. Not to mention, Charizard is fine given his own slot. I think he's popular enough to warrant that.

Having Elma and Rex is something I would like to see, as I think they would both be good additions. I'm not sure if we'll get both in the base roster, but I think we could see both potentially.

I can appreciate your addition of Spring Man, I think he'd be great.

As far as Kawashima, you've seen my reasoning against him. I won't repeat it here.

I could see Sakurai revisiting the Chorus Men idea, but I get the feeling you have him there simply because of predictions sake.

Tom Nook (the idea I have for him would get me pumped) and I can see Isabelle happening.

The clones:
I'd be careful putting Dixie as a clone, as she really does have enough to make her far different from Diddy.

Celica really isn't anything like Robin. That would be a piss-poor semi-clone if i'm being completely honest. If they're going to have a semi-clone from Fire Emblem, why not just de-clone Lucina who is not only one of the more popular characters, but a veteran?

Ribbon Girl...I could see her being a clone/Semi-clone, but I would honestly be surprised if they added her AND Spring Man. Although maybe I wouldn't be.

I don't know that they'll do Octolings. Don't really have much to say beyond that.

You know what I want from Elma. I want her Skell to be incorporated into Elma's special moves, but make it so that the Skell is a recovery move and is the Skell size that is slightly larger or equal to Elma. The dual guns/swords are cool, but the mechs being heavily involved in Elma's playstyle would be the best deal.

Here's the thing Blue...that wouldn't be Elma at all.

The one thing with Smash is that characters are, for the most part, adapted to fit Smash while staying accurate to the game they come from.

This would completely go against that. Keep the mech as a final smash. Having a mini-mech would kinda stomp the whole "smooth transition" thing.

 

[Danpal65]

There is no "can't jump" problem. You can recover without "jumping". You can animate a character jumping without him actually jumping. Captain Toad can just have an animation where he's abducted by Wingo or Flaptor in place of him jumping:

I know this is kind of retreading territory, but I highly doubt that if captain Toad is in that he won't have jumps just like every other character. It would look wrong and would be too complex of an animation for a simple jump in Smash. Plus, Toad in SMB2 was not a good jumper, it is a trait of Toads everywhere.

I understand that within the context of his games Captain Toad could not jump because his backpack was too heavy and it was sort of the justification for the gameplay, but I do not think it is central to the character of Captain Toad himself.

All that needs to be done is have a throw away line in his trophy description or something saying that he "packed light so he is ready to fight" or something and then just have the character not have a great deal of verticality through jumps (like Little Mac). This would mean that Captain Toad could represent Toads, be faithful to his game and still function properly as a Smash character.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm legit tired of the ''He feels completely ruined" attitude or ''Unfaithful to his character" attitude about Captain Toad and jumping.

Like I honestly think if and or when he's revealed you guys aren't going to give two craps about the fact that he can jump in Smash.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Needing to summon a giant bird to abduct you whenever you jump seems very impractical. I could understand it if it was a recovery move, but for the standard jumping..... no

It's actually interesting.

 

[Deleted member]

Never going to happen unless it appears in the games.
And even then, it would only happen if GameFreak/The Pokémon Company allowed it. And considering we don't officially have any legitimate Shiny Pokémon palettes likely due to them.....what are the odds they would allow Armored Mewtwo?

Oh... good point.
I do not know why we never got any actual shiny alts....
Got to respect the shiny Incineroar himself.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Captain Toad has so much going on in his one game that it just feels so odd to me that everyone has chosen to focus in on the ''can't jump" aspect.

That seems like literally the least important aspect of making him feel faithful to his game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I know this is kind of retreading territory, but I highly doubt that if captain Toad is in that he won't have jumps just like every other character.

Why not?

It would look wrong

Why?

and would be too complex of an animation for a simple jump in Smash.

A bird holding a character is a complex animation? Isn't that one of Mega Man's custom moves?

Plus, Toad in SMB2 was not a good jumper

This isn't Toad. And this isn't SMB2.

I understand that within the context of his games Captain Toad could not jump because his backpack was too heavy and it was sort of the justification for the gameplay, but I do not think it is central to the character of Captain Toad himself.

So give him a crappy jump. This isn't difficult to work around. Sakuria's not a dummy. He's not sitting there like "Oh, god. I can't figure out how to make a boxer fight in the air, it just doesn't work. I give up"

 

[Danpal65]

Why not?


Why?


A bird holding a character is a complex animation? Isn't that one of Mega Man's custom moves?


This isn't Toad. And this isn't SMB2.


So give him a crappy jump. This isn't difficult to work around. Sakuria's not a dummy. He's not sitting there like "Oh, god. I can't figure out how to make a boxer fight in the air, it just doesn't work. I give up"

I think I did try and explain this in my post... Sorry if it was not clear.

The bird holding Captain Toad would be a complex animation in the context of just jumping. It would be perfectly fine as a recovery as there is a lot more involved, and like you said many characters have that as their recovery move.

The end result being that Captain Toad is not very good at jumping was the conclusion I was trying to explain, sorry if that did not come across clearly.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Captain Toad is like the perfect character to represent the Wii U as well as Super Mario 3D World. Especially his ability to become Small Toad as a result of taking damage and use Double Cherries.

 

[MrReyes96]

I’m surprised Phoenix Wright doesn’t get brought up more as a third party choice. He’s historically been associated with Nintendo, he represents the DS /3DS era, he fits in very well with the cast of smash, he has fighting experience, and he’s got killer series music

Maybe it’s because we already have 2 capcom characters but if any company deserves more than that it’s capcom

 

[kylexv]

I feel like Captain Toad can be an oddball and be a character with a smaller hitbox, but a lot of weight and close to the worst air mobility in the game (referencing the fact that Captain Toad can't jump in his game). We've had larger characters be lightweights (Mewtwo and Rosalina), so why not the opposite?

 

[FlareHabanero]

No offense but I feel like people are thinking way too hard on the whole "Captain Toad not being able to jump" thing

It's just a flimsy justification for why there's no jump for Captain Toad in the Captain Toad minigames in Super Mario 3D World and Captain Toad Treasure Tracker. If Captain Toad could jump like any of the other Mario characters, it would flat out defeat the purpose of those stages.

 

[Troykv]

Well... Make Captain Toad have the weakest jumps.

The Kinoko-zoku are already associated with poor jump ability anyway.

 

[MrReyes96]

Is “captain toad can’t jump” the new “why can’t metroid crawl”?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

A few things here, Blue. I am not intending any of this to be rude, so please do not take it that way.

First of all, I liked the colored icons of the roster. It definitely makes it colorful.

Here's the thing with transformations...they are better off separated. The problem with Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS being transformations wasn't just the data capacity, it was the logic. In Brawl, people picked Zelda to play Sheik. Zelda is bad, and Sheik is overall the better character. There's no point in having the transformation if the concept doesn't work in practice. It was the same thing with Samus and Zero Suit. ZSS was ultimately considered better than Samus in Brawl, and they even fleshed out ZSS in Wii U/3DS to further establish her as her own thing. There is, and I hope you consider this, very little way to make the gameplay work beyond the "gimmick" of the transformation. They don't need a gimmick on top of the transformation gimmick. At that point it's tacky and far too complicated.

To further this, let's consider Zelda. I myself am convinced she's getting overhauled into Breath of the Wild Zelda, and would have a far different moveset, faster speed, and different concept. Part of the problem with Zelda in Wii U was that the majority of her moveset was meant to be a bit of an opposite to Sheik, who is weaker, but faster and more combo oriented. They aren't together anymore, and the TP style would heavily clash with a Breath of the Wild Link. It would make even less sense to put them back together.

Next, Pokemon Trainer. Again, this transformation should stay dead. If you want to bring back Squirtle and Ivysaur, to each their own. But the whole stamina idea was another that really just didn't pan out the way it was intended. Not to mention, Charizard is fine given his own slot. I think he's popular enough to warrant that.

Having Elma and Rex is something I would like to see, as I think they would both be good additions. I'm not sure if we'll get both in the base roster, but I think we could see both potentially.

I can appreciate your addition of Spring Man, I think he'd be great.

As far as Kawashima, you've seen my reasoning against him. I won't repeat it here.

I could see Sakurai revisiting the Chorus Men idea, but I get the feeling you have him there simply because of predictions sake.

Tom Nook (the idea I have for him would get me pumped) and I can see Isabelle happening.

The clones:
I'd be careful putting Dixie as a clone, as she really does have enough to make her far different from Diddy.

Celica really isn't anything like Robin. That would be a piss-poor semi-clone if i'm being completely honest. If they're going to have a semi-clone from Fire Emblem, why not just de-clone Lucina who is not only one of the more popular characters, but a veteran?

Ribbon Girl...I could see her being a clone/Semi-clone, but I would honestly be surprised if they added her AND Spring Man. Although maybe I wouldn't be.

I don't know that they'll do Octolings. Don't really have much to say beyond that.


Here's the thing Blue...that wouldn't be Elma at all.

The one thing with Smash is that characters are, for the most part, adapted to fit Smash while staying accurate to the game they come from.

This would completely go against that. Keep the mech as a final smash. Having a mini-mech would kinda stomp the whole "smooth transition" thing.

Transformation characters were a mistake.

Pokemon Trainer was awesome as a fighter idea, but the idea of changing between characters that are nothing alike is obnoxious, tedious, and makes recording characters and giving them equal and appropriate treatment needlessly complicated.

Zero Suit Samus was the final straw. It was the worst possible way you could have someone transition between characters and she deserved to be separate from the get go.

Things are so much better now. All characters get equal treatment and notoriety. Nobody's missing a special move. Recording data is easier. There's no misconceptions about representation or how many characters are on the roster. It is such a ****ing relief.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

No offense but I feel like people are thinking way too hard on the whole "Captain Toad not being able to jump" thing

It's just a flimsy justification for why there's no jump for Captain Toad in the Captain Toad minigames in Super Mario 3D World and Captain Toad Treasure Tracker. If Captain Toad could jump like any of the other Mario characters, it would flat out defeat the purpose of those stages.

Pretty much this. If Captain Toad is in Smash, he'll be able to jump. Just like Link was able to jump despite not jumping besides the occasional hop in Ocarina of Time. To be true to character, they could make his jumping miserable.

Then just give him a decent recovery. I mean if he had a mine-cart side B similar to Wario's bike or Jr.'s side b, he'd have decent horizontal recovery.

 

[Troykv]

Transformation characters were a mistake.

Pokemon Trainer was awesome as a fighter idea, but the idea of changing between characters that are nothing alike is obnoxious, tedious, and makes recording characters and giving them equal and appropriate treatment needlessly complicated.

Zero Suit Samus was the final straw. It was the worst possible way you could have someone transition between characters and she deserved to be separate from the get go.

Things are so much better now. All characters get equal treatment and notoriety. Nobody's missing a special move. Recording data is easier. There's no misconceptions about representation or how many characters are on the roster. It is such a ****ing relief.

Do you think Sheik was a mistake?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Do you think Sheik was a mistake?

Nah. It just couldn't last. Sheik being in Smash isn't a mistake though.

 

[Bowserlick]

Give Captain Toad four recovery options in his specials.

He cannot jump, yet the jump button toggles to another set of anti-air, long-ranged 'A' moves.

 

[N3ON]

Sonic couldn't swim and yet somehow that didn't matter for Smash. And tbh, they could've just made him sink in water, it wouldn't have outright broken the character. Swimming wasn't that integral to the game. But jumping is, and if they're going to go for parity over swimming, they'll go for parity over jumping.

 

[MrReyes96]

Sheik is in an awkward spot where she made sense as a transformation character in her debut but now she’s just a separate character that overshadows Zelda
And her having only appeared once makes her continued inclusion weird
If it were up to me i’d give Impa her moveset with some changes, but I know Sheik fans would riot