Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Superyoshiom]

If Sakurai has the free-time to include last-minute clone characters, why not?

I mean, what I got from Dark Pit was disappointing, but new last-minute clones will definitely happen in the game, regardless of potential backlash.

Let us hope at least the clones get Luigified or Wolfified to some extent.

But here's the thing, every clone character is a character that doesn't get a unqiue moveset, as well as a character who getting a new moveset in future games would be very hard.

While I'd prefer Dark Pit having a new moveset, I can understand why he's a clone. The problem arises with characters like Ganondorf, who are last-minute clones who haven't gotten de-cloned since their original appearance because there are still people who are attached to his old playstyle, and Sakurai doesn't want to alienate these players.

What if a highly requested character, say K. Rool, became a Bowser clone late into development, or even Ridley became a Charizard clone. These are characters people have wanted for ages, but the clone treatment soils their potential movesets for the long run.

It's a little extreme, but after seeing what cloning has done to Ganondorf I'm a little averse to the whole idea. If clones can be kept to characters who should play similar to their original counterparts, I'd be fine. For example, I don't really mind it on your roster per say.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

It's actually 6 months, not 7.

Also XCX's international release was in early December 2015. Depending on when the roster for Switch was finalized, it could be ~3-4 months later.

He said 6 months after Awakening released, which would be 7 months after Smash started development. It would have been 5 months before Smash started development, so I did mess up there.

 

[Opossum]

hey that's a new topic!

what emblems would new series have?

Like what would Spring Man, Chorus Kids, Rayman, Crash, etc. have?

Spring Man would probably have a spring with a boxing glove at the tip. Like Punch-Out!! but with springs!

Spring Man would likely have the logo from the in game ARMS league, with the two parallel extendo-gloves.
Chorus Kids would likely have the Rhythm Heaven logo cloud.
Crash could have Aku-Aku as his symbol.

 

[Bowserlick]

Mech with a rifle post from Sakurai was for Mach Rider with transformative armor used to morph into vehicles during a fight... most likely.​

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

So, what controllers do you think should be viable for this game?

I mean, we can't be reliant on the GCN controller forever... right?

 

[New_Dumal]

The major problem with cloning is when you cut obvious moveset potential away and create something that looks weird to the character.
It's the Ganondorf example. Falco/Wolf, Luigi, Lucas are the good how-to-do a "clone".With time they ended up evolving to be more unique.

That said, I'd be happy with Dixie Kong if she takes some inspiration from Diddy and/or Dk.Let's say his downB is bumping her hair in the ground, and her upB looks a bit like Dk, but with his hair. I'm fine with that. Her neutral B could be bubblegum gun, and her SideB could be a Monkey-flip variation.

If they let me guitar-spike a opponent and taunt them with the ending-level music of DKC2, eveything else would be forgotten.

 

[Morbi]

So, what controllers do you think should be viable for this game?

I mean, we can't be reliant on the GCN controller forever... right?

Um, yes, we literally can. Nothing is stopping us and Nintendo is bending over backwards to cater to that preference.

 

[Hinata]

So, what controllers do you think should be viable for this game?

I mean, we can't be reliant on the GCN controller forever... right?

They'll find a way to support the Gamecube controller for this game. They took the time to make an adapter for the Wii U, they'll probably make one for the Switch too.

 

[Sonic Poke]

One could also make arguments for WFT and Duck Hunt, but the only one no ones gonna argue over is Villager.

Fair enough. But I never said it otherwise. Just in case you misunderstood me lol

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

The Gamecube Controller adapter already works with the Switch. I used it for Pokken briefly. They'll probably just start production on those again.

 

[Ura]

Ehh sort of.

I think some characters are a lot more well known, like Link, Mario Pikachu. Those are very much first party Nintendo and people know them as the faces of Nintendo.

Past that it varies a lot.

Well yeah of course lol.

Outside of the Mario cast, the Pokemon cast, and maybe the Zelda cast along with Samus, there's no one who I would call an "all-star". Characters may be popular among certain groups of fans but in terms of a casual audience the majority of the roster isn't well known to them outside Smash.

 

[Morbi]

Well yeah of course lol.

Outside of the Mario cast, the Pokemon cast, and maybe the Zelda cast along with Samus, there's no one who I would call an "all-star". Characters may be popular among certain groups of fans but in terms of a casual audience the majority of the roster isn't well known to them outside Smash.

Not sure if you are counting Donkey Kong as Mario, but if not, you are crazy. Beyond that, I would argue that more people are aware of Duck Hunt Dog's existence than Samus, sadly.

Regardless, this is just a Nintendo all-star game, not an all-star game. To that end, well, the roster is probably still only half and half. Why do you think they are so desperate for third-party characters? They need them.

 

[Ura]

I think of all the Smash games, this is going to have probably the weirdest roster. Since not a lot of big games came out between both smash's developments, I think there is a large possibility we'll see some really out there pulls and series that haven't gotten much representation (like Advanced Wars and Golden Sun) might actually have a decent shot. Like I honestly think a Fatal Frame character has a decent shot and i would have never said that during smash 4's development (Even if i lowkey really wanted it).

I also agree with the idea that the mech probably has something to do with Xenoblade X, but that's a huge bias on my part as I really want Elma in

Man I really hope so lol. That would be a dream come true to have both Advance Wars and Golden Sun on the Smash roster.

And in this case, weird = good.

 

[CroonerMike]

Mech with a rifle post from Sakurai was for Mach Rider with transformative armor used to morph into vehicles during a fight... most likely.​

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Ura]

Not sure if you are counting Donkey Kong as Mario, but if not, you are crazy. Beyond that, I would argue that more people are aware of Duck Hunt Dog's existence than Samus, sadly.

Regardless, this is just a Nintendo all-star game, not an all-star game. To that end, well, the roster is probably still only half and half. Why do you think they are so desperate for third-party characters? They need them.

Yeah of course when I think the Mario cast I also think DK, Wario, and Yoshi as well. Duck Hunt is a major one as well I forgot. I remember as a kid I would go to my friends house and they would have the Duck Hunt Zapper thing.

My point was addressed at the whole "there's no more all-stars to add in" argument which is bull as I mentioned before. 80% of the roster isn't an "all-star" beyond dedicated Nintendo gamers like myself and most of you.

Smash sells itself so there's no need to stack the roster with third parties. The base game should be where the Nintendo characters are added in (or at least the majority of the newcomer pool). When it comes to DLC however, then I can see Nintendo going trigger happy with 3rd party inclusion sort of like before.

 

[Lyndis_]

Um, yes, we literally can. Nothing is stopping us and Nintendo is bending over backwards to cater to that preference.

Until they add a gimmick that requires gyro, the left bumper, the select button or NFC in some way, that is.

...but like I've said before, I would absolutely love Nintendo to make an updated Gamecube controller that's exactly the same except with wireless capabilities and all the features of the current Pro Controller.

They could definitely do that if they'd like.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Until they add a gimmick that requires gyro, the left bumper, the select button or NFC in some way, that is.

...but like I've said before, I would absolutely love Nintendo to make an updated Gamecube controller that's exactly the same except with wireless capabilities and all the features of the current Pro Controller.

They could definitely do that if they'd like.

#BringBackWavebirds

 

[Bebe Mignon]

These are the top contenders for each series. Not including veterans.

Mario: Captain Toad, Daisy, Paper Mario, Waluigi
Donkey Kong: Cranky Kong, Dixie Kong, King K. Rool
Zelda: Daruk, Impa, Mipha, Revali, Urbosa
Metroid: Dark Samus, Ridley, Sylux
Kid Icarus: None
Fire Emblem: Alm, Celica, Lyn
Kirby: Bandana Dee, Marx
Star Fox: Krystal, Wolf
Pokemon: Decidueye, Lycanroc, Mimikyu
Earthbound: None
F-Zero: None
Animal Crossing: Isabelle, Tom Nook
Pikmin: None
Wii: None
Xenoblade: Cross (Rook), Elma, Rex & Pyra

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not gonna lie.

The more I think about it, the more I want Elma as a character.

She'd be dope.

 

[Morbi]

These are the top contenders for each series. Not including veterans.

Mario: Captain Toad, Daisy, Paper Mario, Waluigi
Donkey Kong: Cranky Kong, Dixie Kong, King K. Rool
Zelda: Daruk, Impa, Mipha, Revali, Urbosa
Metroid: Dark Samus, Ridley, Sylux
Kid Icarus: None
Fire Emblem: Alm, Celica, Lyn
Kirby: Bandana Dee, Marx
Star Fox: Krystal, Wolf
Pokemon: Decidueye, Lycanroc, Mimikyu
Earthbound: None
F-Zero: None
Animal Crossing: Isabelle, Tom Nook
Pikmin: None
Wii: None
Xenoblade: Cross (Rook), Elma, Rex & Pyra

Mario list checks out.

In my opinion, you could add Funky Kong to the list.

I would remove all of those Legend of Zelda characters, Ganon is probably the most likely if precedent has anything to say about it. And even then, since he is a Legend of Zelda character, I highly doubt it.

None from Kid Icarus? Okay.

Fire Emblem? Lmfao.

Marx, too? If Marx is likely, so is literally every other Kirby character, fam.

Krystal? What year is this?

Nice Gen 7 list. People are sleeping on Blatoise... or, well, any other promoted Pokemon.

Cries in Earthbound, moans in F-Zero. At least we finally agree, however.

Sure, makes sense. Isabelle and Nook are the greatest power couple of all time.

You never know, Alph might get upgraded, Pikmin 4 might leave development hell.

Or just Rex. It is going to be Rex.

 

[Hinata]

Not gonna lie.

The more I think about it, the more I want Elma as a character.

She'd be dope.

Same. At first I was completely opposed to the idea, considering Xenoblade X was boring as sin, but the more I think about it, the more I feel like Elma could actually be a character that'd be really fun to play.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Not gonna lie.

The more I think about it, the more I want Elma as a character.

She'd be dope.

Same. I want a character that uses mech-related abilities really bad. Mecha anime/movies/media are my favorite, and Elma seems like our best bet at that kind of character with Custom Robo being dead.

 

[New_Dumal]

These are the top contenders for each series. Not including veterans.

Mario: Captain Toad, Daisy, Paper Mario, Waluigi
Donkey Kong: Cranky Kong, Dixie Kong, King K. Rool
Zelda: Daruk, Impa, Mipha, Revali, Urbosa
Metroid: Dark Samus, Ridley, Sylux
Kid Icarus: None
Fire Emblem: Alm, Celica, Lyn
Kirby: Bandana Dee, Marx
Star Fox: Krystal, Wolf
Pokemon: Decidueye, Lycanroc, Mimikyu
Earthbound: None
F-Zero: None
Animal Crossing: Isabelle, Tom Nook
Pikmin: None
Wii: None
Xenoblade: Cross (Rook), Elma, Rex & Pyra

Agree with most of this and liked the idea of listing alphabetically, but Fire Emblem is very hard to say...
I strongly think that a FE:Heroes character (Anna/Alfonse(please god no)/Sharena) have much more chance than Lyn at this point.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Just did a little bit of research, and Mach Rider sure does use a Machine Gun like people have been saying. Definitely another contender for what that model is being used as a reference for. Regardless of whoever's gonna use that gun, hopefully their moveset will be fun and interesting (and not broken just like a certain someone who also uses guns).

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

I feel like I'm the only person who's backing a Fatal Frame rep so I might try and think up a moveset sometime this week. All I can say is what i have envisioned is super unique and I reallllllllly need it now ingame

The release of Fatal Frame 5 fits for the timing of this smash and the fact that it actually got a western release this time around (Fatal Frame 4 and the remake of 2 on Wii never came to America) help and I think people forget it's co-owned by nintendo now.

If Yuuri from 5 gets in as a playable character don't be surprised.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Mario list checks out.

In my opinion, you could add Funky Kong to the list. I forgot about him...so he's added to my list.

I would remove all of those Legend of Zelda characters, Ganon is probably the most likely if precedent has anything to say about it. And even then, since he is a Legend of Zelda character, I highly doubt it. It's possible Link and Zelda will get a revamp, so they may be the only "newcomers".

None from Kid Icarus? Okay.

Fire Emblem? Lmfao. Okay, I admit I don't know anything about Fire Emblem.

Marx, too? If Marx is likely, so is literally every other Kirby character, fam. Don't know much about Kirby either. I've seen a lot of support for Marx, so yeah.

Krystal? What year is this? Krystal is still pretty popular. Doesn't stand a chance against other candidates from other series though.

Nice Gen 7 list. People are sleeping on Blatoise... or, well, any other promoted Pokemon. I don't see Blastoise happening...might as well put in Sceptile if you think he has a chance.

Cries in Earthbound, moans in F-Zero. At least we finally agree, however.

Sure, makes sense. Isabelle and Nook are the greatest power couple of all time.

You never know, Alph might get upgraded, Pikmin 4 might leave development hell. Don't know much about Pikmin even though I've played a bit of Pikmin 1 and Pikmin 3.

Or just Rex. It is going to be Rex. Never count out any of the X characters!

Comments in orange

 

[Hinata]

I feel like I'm the only person who's backing a Fatal Frame rep so I might try and think up a moveset sometime this week.

The release of fatal frame 5 fits for the timing of this smash and the fact that it actually got a western release this time around (Fatal Frame 4 and the remake of 2 on Wii never came to America) help and I think people forget it's co-owned by nintendo now.

If Yuuri from 5 gets in as a playable character don't be surprised.

A "leak" from way back when mentioned Yuri as a playable character, so you're not the only one with Fatal Frame on the mind.

Plus, Fatal Frame got a trophy in Smash 4, so the series is in Sakurai's mind.

 

[SamuXCI]

Is Pig Ganon considered a no chance? Don't see him on prediction rosters or wish lists.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

A "leak" from way back when mentioned Yuri as a playable character, so you're not the only one with Fatal Frame on the mind.

Plus, Fatal Frame got a trophy in Smash 4, so the series is in Sakurai's mind.

Yup, I remember the trophy of the protagonists of 2, It's just wild to me when people mention Wii U games to pull from for a character, it literally never gets brought up and out of the ones brought up (besides Xenoblade X) It's one of the few games from a long standing series.

 

[New_Dumal]

Is Pig Ganon considered a no chance? Don't see him on prediction rosters or wish lists.

Not a no chance, top10 without a doubt (debatable 5) most popular character as Zelda newcomer.
I'd would rather Toon Ganon, but he... is the nowadays "no-chance" in people eyes.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Agree with most of this and liked the idea of listing alphabetically, but Fire Emblem is very hard to say...
I strongly think that a FE:Heroes character (Anna/Alfonse(please god no)/Sharena) have much more chance than Lyn at this point.

I think Sharena would be a welcome addition. She's a lance user and from the most recent FE game that is still getting tons of dev support because it's raking in mad cash. Alfonse is really boring. Anna would be cool too, but I'd really prefer she maintained her canonical merchant look rather than adopting her Order of Heroes look.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have been thinking, if people are very sure that BOTW and Mario Odyssey will surely get some form of representation, would the same people think Xenoblade 2 will be getting a form of representation in Smash Switch too?

Kinda gets me to think that Sakurai has thought of candidates from 2017 Nintendo games to as far as end of 2017 as a result.

 

[Morbi]

I have been thinking, if people are very sure that BOTW and Mario Odyssey will surely get some form of representation, would the same people think Xenoblade 2 will be getting a form of representation in Smash Switch too?

I cannot speak for them; however, it is definitely likely as that would imply a recency bias of some form. I, personally, believe we will get content from all three. The only one I expect as playable is the potential Captain Toad (pls save me) or Rex.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I feel like I'm the only person who's backing a Fatal Frame rep so I might try and think up a moveset sometime this week. All I can say is what i have envisioned is super unique and I reallllllllly need it now ingame

The release of Fatal Frame 5 fits for the timing of this smash and the fact that it actually got a western release this time around (Fatal Frame 4 and the remake of 2 on Wii never came to America) help and I think people forget it's co-owned by nintendo now.

If Yuuri from 5 gets in as a playable character don't be surprised.

I won't be entirely surprised but I will ask how one can include substantial Fatal Frame content without raising the rating or gutting the series.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

I have been thinking, if people are very sure that BOTW and Mario Odyssey will surely get some form of representation, would the same people think Xenoblade 2 will be getting a form of representation in Smash Switch too?

Kinda gets me to think that Sakurai has thought of candidates from 2017 Nintendo games to as far as end of 2017 as a result.

If Link and Zelda are updated to their Breath of the Wild models, but have little to no changes in their movesets, then I don't think games like Arms and Xenoblade 2 have any chance of getting in the base roster. But if their movesets are entirely revamped along with their new looks, then I wouldn't rule out any representation from 2017 games.

 

[Deleted member]

I think people forget it's co-owned by nintendo now.

To be fair, the first three games are on the PSN Store with seemingly no involvement with Nintendo.

 

[Opossum]

I think Sharena would be a welcome addition. She's a lance user and from the most recent FE game that is still getting tons of dev support because it's raking in mad cash. Alfonse is really boring. Anna would be cool too, but I'd really prefer she maintained her canonical merchant look rather than adopting her Order of Heroes look.

Alfonse's issue is basically Chrom's issue but even more extreme. Sword-locked visually-similar lord, but from a game with only like two attack animations, and his skill set and Folkvangr's abilities don't lend themselves to a unique playstyle.

...Which kinda sucks considering he's by far the most interesting playable Heroes OC from a writing and character perspective (as in, he's the only one with even a shred of development, haha). Poor Al.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

This already happened before and Roy and Lucas were the selected to be cut. I don't know why people think they're so closer of understanding Sakurai's motivations to the roster than others.

I mean you don't have to have to be a wise old sage to point out when something is blatantly stupid.

You say in the end that BluePikmin lacks notion of what is viable to be implemented and what is not. And even uses "maybe a real dog is not a good idea"... Well, the unique thing that makes the dog from Duck Hunt trio not a regular dog is that he carries a duck with him. They don't even have a name, is the "duck from Duck Hunt", "dog from Duck Hunt", "Duck hunter/player from Duck Hunt".

The issue I raised with Nintendog was him being a realistic dog which raises animal abuse controversy, unlike a cartoon dog. Also it's not a character. An animal is not a Nintendo character just because you put the word Ninten in front of it.

So what ? A "Nintendog" would be common stuff. And I'm not saying that I bet on this character, but I think BluePikmin roster interesting enough because he doesn't play completely safe,exactly as Sakurai do.

So Sakurai is playing it safe because he doesn't shoe horn in a bunch of insanely moronic fighters that are nothing more than real life animals just for the sake of being edgy? Are you out of your mind? Well, I guess that's the point you're trying to make. Being out of your mind makes your roster interesting.

When Wii Fit Trainer came, after the "WTF?" reaction, everybody was like "How nobody believed in that character before?" Dr. Kawashima would be that kind of character.

1. Dr. Kawashima is a real person.
2. I could say that about anything: "Nobody was expecting Wii Fit Trainer. So the guy who milks cows in 1, 2, Switch makes perfect sense!"

Wii Fit Trainer was obvious. But, people are always so busy talking about King K. Rool, that they didn't even think about someone who was actually from a well selling and relevant franchise. They were so obsessed with Paper Mario that they couldn't even see how insanely popular Rosalina was as a Mario character.

You think I'm being closed minded? The fact that you couldn't see Wii Fit Trainer coming makes you just as closed minded as me and anyone else in the fanbase. And all of us should be ashamed that we didn't even consider someone like Wii Fit Trainer. Difference is, I don't turn around and say "Hey, guys! Check out my wacky character ideas that don't make any sense! It's the guy who milks cows from 1, 2, Switch! You guys didn't see Wii Fit Trainer coming so this basically the same as that! See, I'm open minded! Unlike you! I think outside the box!"

Like really. Your whole argument is: "Nobody saw this thing that made total sense coming. Therefore this thing that doesn't make sense actually DOES make sense, because you didn't see it coming."

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner was a tied between MegaMan.EXE and Bass.EXE, which make sense as the two are very popular. Roll and Protoman's Navi counterparts weren't as popular.

Next up will be a Mega Man Zero series poll, and off course I will used a certain version of a certain fan favorite. Your choices are Sage Harpuia, Fairy Leviathan, Mega Man Zero (The Zero version of Zero), and of course Dr Wiel.

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[Opossum]

The winner was a tied between MegaMan.EXE and Bass.EXE, which make sense as the two are very popular. Roll and Protoman's Navi counterparts weren't as popular.

Next up will be a Mega Man Zero series poll, and off course I will used a certain version of a certain fan favorite. Your choices are Sage Harpuia, Fairy Leviathan, Mega Man Zero (The Zero version of Zero), and of course Dr Wiel.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin.

As someone who's only played like two Mega Man games, this poll is basically just a bunch of "Literally Who?"s to me.