Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Starcutter]

Guys, I think you might be overlooking something kinda obvious.

Spoiler

It's not exactly the same but w/e

 

[Superyoshiom]

Apparently Xenoblade Chronicles 2 started preliminary work in late 2014.

I’ve been told Push wasn’t aware of that when the Source Gaming video was made.

Pretty much this. Xenoblade Chronicles have massive development cycles. A lot of people bring up the fact that the most we saw from characters in January were concept art sheets. However that was more to showcase the artist and stuff for that game, it's clear even from that trailer that characters like Rex, Pyra, and Mythra were well near-finished.

Even if they were in development, I doubt they wouldn't at least have a blueprint of their designs and how they would work (considering the "blades" gameplay is the main core of X2 gameplay).

People are treating this "Sakurai" only considers games released during the development cycle stuff ever since that Japan Time with Source Gaming came out, but fail to understand he's bucked this trend multiple times. Granted, it was with Pokemon and Fire Emblem, but discounting that happening with another high-budget Nintendo game for a brand new system for an acclaimed franchise is kinda silly.

Guys, I think you might be overlooking something kinda obvious.

Spoiler

It's not exactly the same but w/e

I'd be down for a new, de-cloned rifle-based moveset for Dark Pit. Granted, I'd prefer the effort go to making Hades playable, but I'll take what I can get.

 

[MrReyes96]

Guys, I think you might be overlooking something kinda obvious.

Spoiler

It's not exactly the same but w/e

But there’s already a Dark Pit figure and he’s plenty poseable. He should be at the price I bought him for

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Pretty sure they were referring to her Skell's gun. Like she'd use in a Final Smash.

This is Elma's Skell... It actually looks similar.

 

[Starcutter]

Yeah, in hindsight it probably wasn't for Dark Pit since Sakurai already has his figure. Maybe Sakurai's figure didn't have the rifle thing?

 

[MrReyes96]

I’ve been replaying kid Icarus uprising and there’s plenty they can do to declone Pittoo, there’s enough weapons, powers, locations, characters in that game to make an entirely new fighting game.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Didn't Sakurai use a model in samurai clothing doing a ninja crouch to inspire Greninja's crouch animation? I believe I heard it somewhere in Sourcegaming's recent timeline video.

 

[MrReyes96]

Yeah, in hindsight it probably wasn't for Dark Pit since Sakurai already has his figure. Maybe Sakurai's figure didn't have the rifle thing?

They all come with the Dark Pit staff, it’s his only accessory that’s different from the Pit figure.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So...

The figure is a mecha.

The mecha has a rifle.

Elma piloting a skell is the first thing that comes to mind.

But... what if the figure is just meant to be someone with a gun?

What do you guys think?

 

[Antimatter042]

Elma is known for having dual guns and dual swords, so I don't know if Elma is really related to that unless it is for the Skell as Elma's Final Smash. I like to think that Sakurai used the rifle for reference to Inkling's ink gun, which moreso resembles the rifle Sakurai could be using for Smash Switch.

If he did want to use the rifle for Elma specifically, he would have gotten the Skell figure that came out way back in August 2016, which was before Sakurai talked about getting a Vifan figure in December 2016.

The thing about that Skell figure is it's the Formula Skell from X. Elma would be more likely to use a Verus (described as her favourite type), an Urban (the player's first Skell) or one of the Ares skells (a series of endgame powerhouses with a plot relevant unit in the story). So the Vifam may still have a place in the design for Elma's Final Smash.

Then again, it's always possible that the rifle is meant to be wielded by a regular person.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Personally, I'd be glad if both Elma and Rex and Pyra got in. I got overrepresentation back in Smash 4, considering that series like Mario and Zelda only really one or two more viable choices left, and the Nintendo RPG's like Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade have tons of choices.

With elma, we'd have three Xenoblade fighters completely unique not only from the rest of the roster, but also from themselves. It adds a lot of diversity to the game that was already very diverse to begin with.

Iirc, Xenoblade has currently outsold the Mother franchise, which has two characters, so three characters can't be pushing it too much (we should also get a new EarthBound character).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

On another note, if Elma gets chosen and ends up getting her newcomer trailer made, it is gonna be kinda awkward, cause most consumers would expect Rex and be somewhat salty on Elma's inclusion

No more akward than getting Path of Radiance Ike in Brawl despite FE10 designs already being finalised by May 2006 (when FE10 was shown at E3)

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

This is Elma's Skell... It actually looks similar.

Looks like it fits. Could be a sign of Elma being in.

Could also be for something else. Like everything with smash at the moment, we have no definites. Might also be she's piloting her Skell as an Assist trophy.

I think I'm going mad from having virtually no information about this smash.

 

[Blargg888]

I honestly don't remember who the highly speculated Pokemon were for Smash 4. I think the the Pokemon Trainer breakup made it a little harder to speculate, too. I don't recall Greninja being brought up much, but that's because there were special arrangements made for him that we didn't know of.

Sheik and ZSS were both revealed in the April 8th Direct. The same Direct that Charizard and Greninja were revealed in. The whole Pokemon Trainer being broken up thing was confirmed literal moments before Charizard and Greninja were confirmed, and since Pokemon speculation died down heavily after that direct, Pokemon Trainer being broken down didn't really affect Pokemon speculation.

As for speculation before April 8th, There were many people who believed that Lucario might get cut for a different Pokemon, same with Ike for another Fire Emblem character. The most speculated Pokemon, if I remember correctly, was Zoroark.

When Greninja was revealed, its character support thread only had about 4-8 pages. It was a very small support thread, but it did exist.

 

[Starcutter]

I hope we get the Brawl Ike design back, I've always liked it more.



I don't think the rifle mech figure thing was literally to represent a literal mech character, more likely it was someone with a gun. Guns were weapons in the first two Xenoblades, so it could be someone from X if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Nauzgo]

I'd love Elma. Monolith made her act a bit weird but still XCX is an underrated experience. Albeit Sakurai could have also used that figure for Ray, it looks pretty much like him.

Something else I'd like to throw in here; I was wondering who could be our retro character rep this time. The last three times, they were forgotten NES heroes (Ice Climbers, Pit, Duck Hunt; even R.O.B.) and there were also other characters considered of those who are known are solely NES characters (like Mach Rider or Bubbles) or the Disk System (Ayumi) respectively. Those who were included though, were pretty popular and sold several millions. Looking back now, we have not many options left. We have characters that were only in games/systems released exclusively in Japan which means too little popularity to Sakurai (Prince Sablé, Ayumi, Diskun, Donbe, Lip; also Tamagon whose game did not come to NA due religious issues), characters which aren't very popular (Muddy Mole, Urban Champion) and Foreman Spike, who is basically a Mario character and also probably either Wario or most likely Waluigi.
This leaves us with 6 options:
Sheriff (he's an assist trophy, therefore he wouldn't be much of a surprise or a revival)
Mach Rider (F-Zero is its spiritual successor, and he/she seems to be pretty similar to Falcon)
Bubbles (Clu Clu Land didn't sell that well and she's actually limited in her movement)
Balloon Fighter / Alice (no hope if they don't change Villagers recovery; otherwise they would be the most likely imo)
Mike Jones (his 2 games weren't released in Japan despite the first being successful)
Takamaru (obviously the most likely and most wanted; still we don't know if Sakurai changed his mind cause Takamaru is a pretty popular character nowadays and probably the most known alongside Balloon Fighter).

tl;dr the only ones I think stand a good chance for being the retro rep are Balloon Fighter, Mike Jones and Takamaru.
Didn't include Excitebiker because he doesn't fit in that category thanks to the WiiWare game from 2009.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Made a new prediction roster in note of this new discoveries I made about Elma possibly being in Smash:

Roster is still in beta mode, but I feel like I am reach closer to Sakurai's newcomer project plan.

The thing about that Skell figure is it's the Formula Skell from X. Elma would be more likely to use a Verus (described as her favourite type), an Urban (the player's first Skell) or one of the Ares skells (a series of endgame powerhouses with a plot relevant unit in the story). So the Vifam may still have a place in the design for Elma's Final Smash.

Good point. I kinda wanna see Elma utilize the Formula Skell though, because it is the most iconic Skell and the most cool looking.

More akward than getting Path of Radiance Ike in Brawl despite FE10 designs already being finalised by May 2006 (when FE10 was shown at E3)

With the internet being more reactionary lately, it would be more x3 salty than Ike back in his reveal in Brawl.

 

[Superyoshiom]

I hope we get the Brawl Ike design back, I've always liked it more.



I don't think the rifle mech figure thing was literally to represent a literal mech character, more likely it was someone with a gun. Guns were weapons in the first two Xenoblades, so it could be someone from X if I'm not mistaken.

I liked the Brawl design, but the RD Ike better suits his character, as a strong character who wields a giant sword. He can definitely have the PoR clothes as an alt though.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

I don't think the rifle mech figure thing was literally to represent a literal mech character, more likely it was someone with a gun. Guns were weapons in the first two Xenoblades, so it could be someone from X if I'm not mistaken.

But why would Sakurai buy a model of a mecha with a rifle? Why not just a model of the rifle itself?

 

[Hinata]

Random thought: Do you think they'd change the Xenoblade series symbol if Elma and/or Rex got in? Right now, the series symbol is the Monado, which only really represents the first game.

 

[MrReyes96]

Random thought: Do you think they'd change the Xenoblade series symbol if Elma and/or Rex got in? Right now, the series symbol is the Monado, which only really represents the first game.

It makes a cameo in X as a hairpin and I haven’t played 2 yet but I thought it played some sort of role.
Either way I doubt they’d change it

 

[Superyoshiom]

Random thought: Do you think they'd change the Xenoblade series symbol if Elma and/or Rex got in? Right now, the series symbol is the Monado, which only really represents the first game.

That Monado Emblem appeared in X, even as an Easter Egg, but I'm not sure if it appeared in 2. It's an iconic image for the games, but I'm not sure what they'd replace it with if it was gone.

Made a new prediction roster in note of this new discoveries I made about Elma possibly being in Smash:

Roster is still in beta mode, but I feel like I am reach closer to Sakurai's newcomer project plan.



Good point. I kinda wanna see Elma utilize the Formula Skell though, because it is the most iconic Skell and the most cool looking.


With the internet being more reactionary lately, it would be more x3 salty than the Ike back in his reveal in Brawl.

So wait, are Dixie Kong, Octoling, and Celica supposed to be clones for Diddy Kong, Inkling, and Marth?

I think we're all discounting Octoling clones for the Inklings in this game. Splatoon is a big enough character to have more than one character, but I'd much prefer having DJ. Octavio or another unique character over a clone.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

But why would Sakurai buy a model of a mecha with a rifle? Why not just a model of the rifle itself?

To expand on my thoughts. It's possible Sakurai is using the Vifam model for multiple references. One could represent a character with a gun, namely the Inkling while another could represent a Mecha character.

 

[New_Dumal]

I know Heihashi is a popular pick, received a Mii costume, Sakurai already spoken about him...
But I don't see the appeal of having another FGC character. Being quite sincere maybe it's because I already dislike Ryu (in Smash).

 

[Superyoshiom]

Even if this game has clones, I really prefer they don't be placed all the way at the bottom of the roster, it just looks more pleasing to have them with their own series. Same with the DLC characters, I was a little annoyed that Mewtwo couldn't appear next to the rest of the Pokemon, same with Lucas.

I know Heihashi is a popular pick, received a Mii costume, Sakurai already spoken about him...
But I don't see the appeal of having another FGC character. Being quite sincere maybe it's because I already dislike Ryu (in Smash).

If anything, they're very easy to create movesets for. Anyways if Sakurai was going to put him in Smash he'd have done so last time while Namco was helping him out with the game.

 

[smashkirby]

Doesn't look similar to Elma's gun, tbh.

Yeah, I'm getting WAY more of a Custom Robo vibe here, and not just because the toy looks like something from that series. Hopefully, Ray's going to be Smash Switch (and hopefully as a playable character.)

 

[BluePikmin11]

So wait, are Dixie Kong, Octoling, and Celica supposed to be clones for Diddy Kong, Inkling, and Marth?

I think we're all discounting Octoling clones for the Inklings in this game. Splatoon is a big enough character to have more than one character, but I'd much prefer having DJ. Octavio or another unique character over a clone.

Celica is a semi-clone of Robin to be exact.

For Octolings specifically, I think their popularity in the Splatoon community and the Octo-Expansion pack in Splatoon 2 will make them highly feasible clones for Smash Switch. It would be a similar inclusion to Lucina to some extent.

 

[DraginHikari]

Random thought: Do you think they'd change the Xenoblade series symbol if Elma and/or Rex got in? Right now, the series symbol is the Monado, which only really represents the first game.

I'd say it's not necessary, it's featured as an Easter Egg in XBX and Pyra's weapon in XB2 shares some similar color schemes and properties it probably works fine as a whole.

 

[Staarih]

Random thought: Do you think they'd change the Xenoblade series symbol if Elma and/or Rex got in? Right now, the series symbol is the Monado, which only really represents the first game.

The idea of a "Monado" (mythical sword) is pretty prominent in all games (maybe less in XCX but it does make a cameo) so I think the symbol works.

I'd wonder more about the victory theme, as Shulk's Mechanical Rhythm is pretty much XC1 all around. Each could get their own jingles I guess, from their respective games.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Celica is a semi-clone of Robin to be exact.

For Octolings specifically, I think their popularity in the Splatoon community and the Octo-Expansion pack in Splatoon 2 will make them highly feasible clones for Smash Switch. It would be a similar inclusion to Lucina to some extent.

So at this point I think it's fair to bring up the Sakurai development argument. Back when this game was being development, the Octolings, while popular, were nowhere near as relevant as they are now, only appearing in a handful of levels. But this DLC for Splatoon 2 will probably show some unique abilities for them, so if they;re added down the lines we can get an original, or at least semi-clone moveset.

 

[Baskerville]

Random thought: Do you think they'd change the Xenoblade series symbol if Elma and/or Rex got in? Right now, the series symbol is the Monado, which only really represents the first game.

There are Xenoblade 2 and X spoilers in here, just a heads up.

Spoiler

In X the Monado appears as a hairpin for Lin and it also appears as a replica in a sidequest.

In 2, it's revealed later in the story that the main villain has a Monado, while not completely 1 to 1 with the original Monado it still has some of its techniques.[/SPOILERS]

 

[Deleted member]

I hope we get the Brawl Ike design back, I've always liked it more.



I don't think the rifle mech figure thing was literally to represent a literal mech character, more likely it was someone with a gun. Guns were weapons in the first two Xenoblades, so it could be someone from X if I'm not mistaken.

I prefer modern muscular Ike. Radiant Dawn ( Smash 4 ) Ike is cool, but I prefer the more modern Ike like the one in FEH.
I dislike Brawl Ike's design. Ike was fine in Path of Radiance which is what his Brawl style was based off of, but they made him too skinny. I never saw Ike as a "twig".

 

[Starcutter]

There are Xenoblade 2 and X spoilers in here, just a heads up.

Spoiler

In X the Monado appears as a hairpin for Lin and it also appears as a replica in a sidequest.

In 2, it's revealed later in the story that the main villain has a Monado, while not completely 1 to 1 with the original Monado it still has some of its techniques.[/SPOILERS]

Xenoblade 2 spoilers

Spoiler

When that boss started using monado arts like monado buster and monado cyclone, it had me so pumped and hyped lmao

 

[BluePikmin11]

You know what I want from Elma. I want her Skell to be incorporated into Elma's special moves, but make it so that the Skell is a recovery move and is the Skell size that is slightly larger or equal to Elma. The dual guns/swords are cool, but the mechs being heavily involved in Elma's playstyle would be the best deal.

 

[Antimatter042]

Made a new prediction roster in note of this new discoveries I made about Elma possibly being in Smash:

Roster is still in beta mode, but I feel like I am reach closer to Sakurai's newcomer project plan.



Good point. I kinda wanna see Elma utilize the Formula Skell though, because it is the most iconic Skell and the most cool looking.


With the internet being more reactionary lately, it would be more x3 salty than Ike back in his reveal in Brawl.

It's off-topic from the Elma/Vifam discussion right now, but I really have to question the transformations remerging on your roster. I was under the impression that Sakurai said the characters being forced to split was for the better as it gave the individual characters more identity, and I think most fans agree with that sentiment. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard especially were very severely handicapped by the transformation, and the gimmicks imposed to make them unique. As someone who liked all 3 of them in Brawl (but I felt there was always something missing when playing them), I'd gladly take 1 done right over 3 incomplete characters.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

It's possible that a Xenoblade X character would get their own series symbol, similar to Yoshi being separate from the Mario series. Xenoblade X was initially intended to be a new IP (remember Project X?). Takahashi has said in the past that he would like to continue making the X series, so that's something to consider.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

With the internet being more reactionary lately, it would be more x3 salty than Ike back in his reveal in Brawl.

Still wouldn't be more controversial than the exclusion of K. Rool and Dixie from Smash 4. Heck, we could still end up with no Donkey Kong newcomer in this game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It's off-topic from the Elma/Vifam discussion right now, but I really have to question the transformations remerging on your roster. I was under the impression that Sakurai said the characters being forced to split was for the better as it gave the individual characters more identity, and I think most fans agree with that sentiment. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard especially were very severely handicapped by the transformation, and the gimmicks imposed to make them unique. As someone who liked all 3 of them in Brawl (but I felt there was always something missing when playing them), I'd gladly take 1 done right over 3 incomplete characters.

I am personally banking on transformations returning with 3DS limitations no longer being an issue, even though Sakurai has said several statements about how standalone characters work better in Smash 4. I think Sakurai will try to redo the transformation concept in a way that is not detrimental and easy to pull off without removing any special moves from characters like Sheik/Zelda or putting any gimmicks (like with PKMN Trainer's stamina gimmick).

 

[DraginHikari]

Xenoblade 2 spoilers

Spoiler

When that boss started using monado arts like monado buster and monado cyclone, it had me so pumped and hyped lmao

Xenoblade 2 Ending Spoiler

Spoiler

It's also revealed at the end of the game that both Xenoblade and Xenoblade 2 take place at the exact same time in different dimension. In addition besides the two Aegis there was supposedly a third one that was sent to another dimension as well. Some speculate that it could be Alvis suggesting some possibility of connecting the Monado and the Blades of Xenoblade 2. Of course that is simply speculation.

 

[Starcutter]

I think they might just change the xenoblade symbol into a big X rather than the monado