Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bebe Mignon]

I think they might just change the xenoblade symbol into a big X rather than the monado

I think the shape of this is far more fitting considering how important it is to the Xeno metaseries as a whole.

 

[DraginHikari]

I think the shape of this is far more fitting considering how important it is to the Xeno metaseries as a whole.

It is interesting how often that particular shape seems to appear in the series as a whole.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Made a new prediction roster in note of this new discoveries I made about Elma possibly being in Smash:

Your heart's not in the wrong place. Brain Age is definitely the most deserving of the new IPs and Hanafuda makes sense in that sense, but I don't think you really think beyond that.

You have this very weird view where you think of what the most deserving games are to get characters, but you fail miserably in choosing characters from the universe that would work. And sometimes there just isn't one, yet you seem to ignore that.

Your cuts are nonsensical and the characters you have in place of their absences are just as much. You keep characters like Corrin and bring back characters like Squirtle and Ivysaur. You remove the clones for being clones and in their place, you put worse clones. Like why would you cut Dr. Mario & Lucina for some Splatoon character I don't even know the name of and CELICA?

And then you propose that Dixie Kong is a clone in the sense that Dark Pit & Lucina are. Like obviously she will take a lot of source material from Diddy Kong, but she'd be around Luigi or Wolf in terms of being a clone.

I also wanna explain how nonsensical your approach to cutting characters is. First of all, it's more than likely they are going to reuses source material from the previous game. Now of course you still have to balance and play test each character as well as update characters such as Link, but aside from that, it should be fairly easy to bring every character back as they were in the Wii U version.

But, the point is that you're assuming characters will be cut as a result of time constraints, yet the only characters you cut are the only characters that took little to no time to create in the first place. I don't even know why you cut Roy & Lucas.

But, again, you never put any thought into the character you use to represent a series. Aside from putting in Tom Nook just because he's from Animal Crossing and you have a misguided idea that Animal Crossing has to have a certain amount of characters, because it's Animal Crossing...

But, then there's the Chorus Kids which is an idea you got from a misinformed leak as apposed to the Tap Trial Girl who is the mascot.

It's like you think as far as "Well Nintendogs is a popular game", but then you don't think "Well, maybe a real life Dog isn't a good idea." or "Maybe a person from real life isn't a good idea." or "Maybe a deck of cards that a drew a pair of limbs on is possiblyy the worst idea ever."

 

[BluePikmin11]

Regarding the cuts, Gematsu leak, clones and the degree of which Smash Switch is a new game or port, to each their own.

Your assumptions of reasons of including certain characters like Tom Nook is wrong. I put gameplay potential and other factors like relevancy and significance to Nintendo's history (or respective franchise) into heavy consideration whenever I add a newcomer to the roster. And all of the characters (minus the potential last-minute desserts) all offer a large amount of gameplay potential and fit in the Smash universe (or artstyle, if that's what you meant) well enough to get into Smash Switch.

 

[Inawordyes]

I've been thinking about this for the last hour or so and I wanted to run it by you guys.

So let's say that Smash Switch was just intended to be a launch-period port, with some new content but not a lot (this more-or-less lines up with most leaks and rumors from 2016-2017 which stated that it was going to have only 2 new characters, basically Wii U++ with 3DS stages and stuff, etc.). When the confidence in the launch-period was more established, it was pushed back and allowed to develop into it's own game with SM4SH as the base, which theoretically, due to it's port origins, would allow for a lot more new content to be added.

As for what I'm hypothesizing, do you think the "delay" would have affected Sakurai's project plan, in terms of expanding it and adding characters and general representation from games and series such as XC2 and ARMS that wouldn't have necessarily been around at the time in 2016 but would have had a more solid presence at the time of the Switch's launch?

If, say, the project plan was minimally-designed to start with just a small port in mind and then the development was expanded, would the project plan have been revised at that time and make things that we're all basically discounting because of timing (Spring-Man, Rex/Pyra, Zeraora, etc.) more likely?

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Your heart's not in the wrong place. Brain Age is definitely the most deserving of the new IPs and Hanafuda makes sense in that sense, but I don't think you really think beyond that.

You have this very weird view where you think of what the most deserving games are to get characters, but you fail miserably in choosing characters from the universe that would work. And sometimes there just isn't one, yet you seem to ignore that.

Your cuts are nonsensical and the characters you have in place of their absences are just as much. You keep characters like Corrin and bring back characters like Squirtle and Ivysaur. You remove the clones for being clones and in their place, you put worse clones. Like why would you cut Dr. Mario & Lucina for some Splatoon character I don't even know the name of and CELICA?

And then you propose that Dixie Kong is a clone in the sense that Dark Pit & Lucina are. Like obviously she will take a lot of source material from Diddy Kong, but she'd be around Luigi or Wolf in terms of being a clone.

I also wanna explain how nonsensical your approach to cutting characters is. First of all, it's more than likely they are going to reuses source material from the previous game. Now of course you still have to balance and play test each character as well as update characters such as Link, but aside from that, it should be fairly easy to bring every character back as they were in the Wii U version.

But, the point is that you're assuming characters will be cut as a result of time constraints, yet the only characters you cut are the only characters that took little to no time to create in the first place. I don't even know why you cut Roy & Lucas.

But, again, you never put any thought into the character you use to represent a series. Aside from putting in Tom Nook just because he's from Animal Crossing and you have a misguided idea that Animal Crossing has to have a certain amount of characters, because it's Animal Crossing...

But, then there's the Chorus Kids which is an idea you got from a misinformed leak as apposed to the Tap Trial Girl who is the mascot.

It's like you think as far as "Well Nintendogs is a popular game", but then you don't think "Well, maybe a real life Dog isn't a good idea." or "Maybe a person from real life isn't a good idea." or "Maybe a deck of cards that a drew a pair of limbs on is possiblyy the worst idea ever."

Someone takes no prisoners here.

 

[Sonic Poke]

imo outside of third-parties the only all-star Smash 4 added was Villager (and Miis).

One can also argue Shulk and Little Mac are also All-star. Xenoblade is getting big and Punch Out is a nintendo classic.

 

[Ura]

Shulk was anything but a Nintendo all-star in when he was included (and even now despite casual fans knowing him through Smash).

Marth as well in Melee. I feel the whole "all-star" thing is just a buzzword to support a certain character.

 

[Superyoshiom]

(minus the potential last-minute desserts).

Please don't let this become a thing.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Please don't let this become a thing.

If Sakurai has the free-time to include last-minute clone characters, why not?

I mean, what I got from Dark Pit was disappointing, but new last-minute clones will definitely happen in the game, regardless of potential backlash.

Let us hope at least the clones get Luigified or Wolfified to some extent.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner of the last poll was Zero, the least unpredictable outcome ever. X was definitely very close, in fact, close to him by a few votes. Meanwhile, both Vile and Axl.

Next up is one based on the Mega Man Battle Network series of games. Your choices are MegaMan.EXE, ProtoMan.EXE, Bass.EXE, and Roll.EXE.

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Begin.

 

[RADSheikah]

If Mega Man comes back would he keep his SSB4 design or would he be redesigned to look like his Mega Man 11? While Smash Switch is probably gonna come out before MM11 could Capcom have had Sakurai use the MM11 design? Thoughts?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I've been thinking about this for the last hour or so and I wanted to run it by you guys.

So let's say that Smash Switch was just intended to be a launch-period port, with some new content but not a lot (this more-or-less lines up with most leaks and rumors from 2016-2017 which stated that it was going to have only 2 new characters, basically Wii U++ with 3DS stages and stuff, etc.). When the confidence in the launch-period was more established, it was pushed back and allowed to develop into it's own game with SM4SH as the base, which theoretically, due to it's port origins, would allow for a lot more new content to be added.

As for what I'm hypothesizing, do you think the "delay" would have affected Sakurai's project plan, in terms of expanding it and adding characters and general representation from games and series such as XC2 and ARMS that wouldn't have necessarily been around at the time in 2016 but would have had a more solid presence at the time of the Switch's launch?

If, say, the project plan was minimally-designed to start with just a small port in mind and then the development was expanded, would the project plan have been revised at that time and make things that we're all basically discounting because of timing (Spring-Man, Rex/Pyra, Zeraora, etc.) more likely?

In my opinion, that's probably the only way Spring Man has a shot at the base roster barring some super in-advance insider knowledge about a game that was still in early development. Rex and Zeraora are both from franchises that have established themselves already, so it's possible that Sakurai could have put faith in them without their official release. However I do find this to be an interesting theory. I wouldn't be shocked if Sakurai eventually opened up about how the development process went down for this game in an interview, especially after the game's release.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Outside of King K.Rool, and possibly Ridley, what are some possible heavy weight newcomers? ARMS Fighters seem like a possibility, but outside of that am not really sure.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Marth as well in Melee. I feel the whole "all-star" thing is just a buzzword to support a certain character.

Ehh sort of.

I think some characters are a lot more well known, like Link, Mario Pikachu. Those are very much first party Nintendo and people know them as the faces of Nintendo.

Past that it varies a lot.

 

[Arcanir]

So...

The figure is a mecha.

The mecha has a rifle.

Elma piloting a skell is the first thing that comes to mind.

But... what if the figure is just meant to be someone with a gun?

What do you guys think?

It's definitely possible. The options are limited as the only obvious ones that come to mind are Elma (or Cross), Henry Fleming, and Custom Robo, but it still would give a decent selection of options to choose from. Inklings are also possible, though it's a bit more of a stretch if they're only using their basic weaponry (which the model rifle doesn't really match). The Inklings also have an Amiibo, which may lessen the need for a model rifle to use for reference.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Outside of King K.Rool, and possibly Ridley, what are some possible heavy weight newcomers? ARMS Fighters seem like a possibility, but outside of that am not really sure.

I think if Sylux were to be added, he would be heavy akin to Samus.

 

[MrReyes96]

Outside of King K.Rool, and possibly Ridley, what are some possible heavy weight newcomers? ARMS Fighters seem like a possibility, but outside of that am not really sure.

Mechanica or Max Brass from Arms, Hades from Kid Icarus, Classic Pig Form Ganon, Doc Louis or Mr. Sandman from Punchout...
that’s all I can think of off the top of my head

 

[AlphaSSB]

But... what if the figure is just meant to be someone with a gun?

What do you guys think?

Several possibilities, then.

Other than Elma, Ray from Custom Robo would make sense. He's a mech, he uses a gun. The figure even has similar proportions to Ray. Hell, when I first saw that he was using the mech as a reference point, my first thought was Custom Robo.

Sylux is also a possibility, but I feel that using a mech with a rifle like that doesn't really fit Sylux.

A bit of a stretch here, but potential reworkings of a Star Fox character if he chooses to incorporate more of their arsenal, like in Assault? Unlikely, but possible. Don't think he'd change Fox, but maybe Falco? Or Wolf if he returns? Maybe even a new character like Slippy?

Lastly, in the chance that Snake is returning, they he could be using the rifle if he desires to change up his moveset a bit. Doomguy and Master Chief, although both pretty unlikely, both use rifle weapons.

 

[Hubba_Wubba]

Honestly i just want some new zelda newcomers.
I would personally love to see Toon Zelda make an appearance in this game, i already jolted down some ideas for a moveset and final smash.
Toon zelda would be hard to make a moveset for, one way is for her to take the form of a Darknut, or make her a clone with different stats like toon link. As for Tetra, they could maker her moveset like her attacks from Hyrule Warriros Legends, with her Dagger and Gun.

 

[Inawordyes]

In my opinion, that's probably the only way Spring Man has a shot at the base roster barring some super in-advance insider knowledge about a game that was still in early development. Rex and Zeraora are both from franchises that have established themselves already, so it's possible that Sakurai could have put faith in them without their official release. However I do find this to be an interesting theory. I wouldn't be shocked if Sakurai eventually opened up about how the development process went down for this game in an interview, especially after the game's release.

I don't doubt that he will, he's talked quite a bit about the development of all the previous titles, so it's just a matter of when rather than if.

That also kinda segues into another thought I had: If we don't get an ARMS or XC2 rep in the base game but we do in DLC, do you think that we'll just get Spring-Man and Rex/Pyra as the "face" of the game, or do you think Sakurai would take into account characters like Twintelle and Morag/Brighid (respectively) who are more popular than the "face" (and also arguably could have more moveset potential) and include them instead?

Outside of King K.Rool, and possibly Ridley, what are some possible heavy weight newcomers? ARMS Fighters seem like a possibility, but outside of that am not really sure.

Old Lady Impa.

More seriously, a Fossil Fighter dino, King Boo, Petey Piranha, Max Brass specifically if talking about ARMS.

 

[ErenJager]

Sakurai had a mech with a rifle?

Well clearly it was for..

 

[Baskerville]

Outside of King K.Rool, and possibly Ridley, what are some possible heavy weight newcomers? ARMS Fighters seem like a possibility, but outside of that am not really sure.

A character from Pro Wrestling can work well as a heavyweight fighter.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

I think of all the Smash games, this is going to have probably the weirdest roster. Since not a lot of big games came out between both smash's developments, I think there is a large possibility we'll see some really out there pulls and series that haven't gotten much representation (like Advanced Wars and Golden Sun) might actually have a decent shot. Like I honestly think a Fatal Frame character has a decent shot and i would have never said that during smash 4's development (Even if i lowkey really wanted it).

I also agree with the idea that the mech probably has something to do with Xenoblade X, but that's a huge bias on my part as I really want Elma in

 

[Starcutter]

Outside of King K.Rool, and possibly Ridley, what are some possible heavy weight newcomers? ARMS Fighters seem like a possibility, but outside of that am not really sure.

All I can think of is Pokey in his Earthbound Mech.

I also thought about Dark Matter, but I think he'd just be big, not heavy.

 

[Inawordyes]

A character from Pro Wrestling can work well as a heavyweight fighter.

The Wrestler from Rhythm Heaven too.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Depending on the design direction of Chibi Robo, he could be heavy. He's just a steel robot. Maybe he's a small heavy. That'd be interesting.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I hope they take the Brawl approach with clones this time. were the cloniest newcomers, and they all had significant differences from the character they came from.

 

[Opossum]

Random thought: Do you think they'd change the Xenoblade series symbol if Elma and/or Rex got in? Right now, the series symbol is the Monado, which only really represents the first game.

Fire Emblem has Marth's Falchion as the symbol despite the fact that it doesn't correspond to Roy, Ike, Corrin, Robin, and Lucina (for the latter two, though it technically still exists, its appearance is much different).

I don't think the series symbol is a big deal for Xenoblade.

 

[N3ON]

One can also argue Shulk and Little Mac are also All-star. Xenoblade is getting big and Punch Out is a nintendo classic.

One could also make arguments for WFT and Duck Hunt, but the only one no ones gonna argue over is Villager.

 

[ErenJager]

I've had an obsession as of late with the idea of smash staying JPN third party character exclusive.
I feel like it wouldn't be overtly hype, but satisfyingly solid.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If Xenoblade X is intended to be it's own series separate from the main numbered series, then it makes a lot of sense to add Elma to represent the two series. However, if Sakurai intended to add Elma I feel like he would have been made privy to the fact that Xenoblade 2 was far in development, and would rather add Rex. That being said Sakurai may have seen the game as coming out too late; he did say if Awakening had come out about 7 months after development for Smash started he might not have put in Robin. He did also say the same thing if it came out about 5 months before Smash started development, but Xenoblade X came out everywhere (outside of Japan) I'm assuming less than 5 months before development for this Smash started.

I also do think if the rifle was intended for a character that it's for Elma. It would be funny though if the rifle is just going to be an item.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I've had an obsession as of late with the idea of smash staying JPN third party character exclusive.
I feel like it wouldn't be overtly hype, but satisfyingly solid.

This post makes me wonder, are the Hyrule Warriors characters (Lana, Cia, Linkle, etc.) owned by Koei Tecmo, or are they technically owned by Nintendo? Diddy, K. Rool, etc. are technically owned by Nintendo even though they were created by Rare if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Hinata]

Fire Emblem has Marth's Falchion as the symbol despite the fact that it doesn't correspond to Roy, Ike, Corrin, Robin, and Lucina (for the latter two, though it technically still exists, its appearance is much different).

I don't think the series symbol is a big deal for Xenoblade.

You know, that's a fair point.

I've had an obsession as of late with the idea of smash staying JPN third party character exclusive.
I feel like it wouldn't be overtly hype, but satisfyingly solid.

Linkle would be a ****in' amazing character. I'd be happy if either her or Lana got in as a new Zelda character.

Although, granted, there are a lot of Zelda characters I want to see in Smash.

 

[Starcutter]

I mean, we have had pretty unfitting emblems in the past.

What does the gear have to do with megaman, apart from the fact he's a robot?

 

[Diddy Kong]

What's with all the rifle talk?

 

[Wyoming]

hey that's a new topic!

what emblems would new series have?

Like what would Spring Man, Chorus Kids, Rayman, Crash, etc. have?

Spring Man would probably have a spring with a boxing glove at the tip. Like Punch-Out!! but with springs!

 

[New_Dumal]

point is that you're assuming characters will be cut as a result of time constraints, yet the only characters you cut are the only characters that took little to no time to create in the first place

This already happened before and Roy and Lucas were the selected to be cut. I don't know why people think they're so closer of understanding Sakurai's motivations to the roster than others.

You say in the end that BluePikmin lacks notion of what is viable to be implemented and what is not. And even uses "maybe a real dog is not a good idea"... Well, the unique thing that makes the dog from Duck Hunt trio not a regular dog is that he carries a duck with him. They don't even have a name, is the "duck from Duck Hunt", "dog from Duck Hunt", "Duck hunter/player from Duck Hunt".

We have Mr.Game&Watch, a character that received a name when was adapted to Smash. So what ? A "Nintendog" would be common stuff. And I'm not saying that I bet on this character, but I think BluePikmin roster interesting enough because he doesn't play completely safe,exactly as Sakurai do.

Smash4 roster is so different from what Smashboards tried to figure out. When Wii Fit Trainer came, after the "WTF?" reaction, everybody was like "How nobody believed in that character before ?"
Dr.Kawashima would be that kind of character.
This really makes me sad when I think about it, but if I was to bet serious money into a roster, I would not pick a Dk character... even when I think they "should" be in that game.
Smash4 speculation was a experience that taught to be more open-minded about the next Smash roster.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Xenoblade X is intended to be it's own series separate from the main numbered series, then it makes a lot of sense to add Elma to represent the two series. However, if Sakurai intended to add Elma I feel like he would have been made privy to the fact that Xenoblade 2 was far in development, and would rather add Rex. That being said Sakurai may have seen the game as coming out too late; he did say if Awakening had come out about 7 months after development for Smash started he might not have put in Robin. He did also say the same thing if it came out about 7 months before Smash started development, but Xenoblade X came out everywhere (outside of Japan) I'm assuming less than 7 months before development for this Smash started.

I also do think if the rifle was intended for a character that it's for Elma. It would be funny though if the rifle is just going to be an item.

It's actually 6 months, not 7.

Also XCX's international release was in early December 2015. Depending on when the roster for Switch was finalized, it could be ~3-4 months later.

 

[Roberk]

What's with all the rifle talk?

(I think) Sakurai stated around late 2016 that he had bought a Mecha to use its rifle as a reference for his “current project”. Pretty much the only thing he does now is Smash, and it lines up perfectly with Smash 5’s development period. This leads people to speculate about certain characters that would use rifles or mechs like Elma from XCX.