Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[RodNutTakin]

In trying to make a 80 char roster, I realise what I want most is to be suprised. And I can't get that if I make the darn thing myself.

Stupid self defeating mumble grumble...

In that case, you should probably leave a few newcomer spots on your prediction roster blank "wildcard" spots to keep that element of surprise intact.

 

[Icedragonadam]

You know if Bomberman makes it in. His newcomer trailer or exclusive event has to involve Falco.

Spoiler

Can you guess the reference?[




Answer:

Birdy from Bomberman Jetters.


/SPOILER]

 

[Jak_spoon]

I’m pretty sure you’re going to get a surprise. I don’t think this smash is going to be anything like our current predictions which is why I think they have been so silent. I wouldn’t be surprised if something crazy like a dozen major characters got reworked and new characters are just a handful. The series is getting close to needing a change and it might be now.

 

[NintenZ]

What makes you dismiss Skull Kid so easily? I'm curious.

I’m not really exactly completely dismissing him, at the same time though I don’t think he has the best chance due to him not being the most relevant. Outside of cameos and whatnot the character hasn’t really been used much.

 

[Donald "JoJo" Trump]

Third-parties aren't my strong suit, so I can't really say how likely Lara Croft would be or how iconic she is.


Actually, truth be told, I wouldn't be upset if we didn't get ANY new third-party characters in this Smash. Smash 4 gave us 5 new third-party characters, so I feel like it wouldn't be that huge of a deal if we just kept what we have and focus on Nintendo characters.

THIS. Who needs third party, when you got good old original Nintendo Characters?

 

[NintenZ]

I’m indifferent to the whole argument about third-parties and Nintendo diversity (I think the argument is stupid) but personally I feel from a personal perspective, considering the amount of third-parties we had in he last game, and how a lot more effort goes into obtaining those characters, I feel this game will keep new third-party additions to a minimum. I expect at least one new third-party, maybe two of we’re lucky.

 

[NintenRob]

I too vastly prefer the Nintendo characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Ya'll are thirsty for Ragnell, let me tell ya.

I'm not going to lie, I would not complain if the entire game just leaked right now and spoils everything, because I'm desperate for news.

Me too.
DADDY SAKURAI PLEASE!
Like if I got news, I think I would have the biggest party of the year.
I do not care if it is news like "Look at Mario in Smash Bros for Switch!".

 

[Wyoming]

Never made a prediction roster, so eh let's do it. Why not?

Newcomers:

Dixie Kong - recognizable, relevant, easy to base a model off of (Diddy's model), decently popular
Sylux - best shot at a Metroid villain that is hinted to appear in the next game whilst appearing in recent titles.
Bandana Dee - HAL using him more and more
Alolan Pokemon Trainer - don't think Sakurai has abandoned this idea entirely and won't gimp Charizard by sticking him with other Pokemon again. Hence, the Alolan Pokemon Trainer makes her mark!
Isabelle - highly marketable and promoted, popular and in a big series.
Rex & Pyra - Monolith work closely with Sakurai, move set potential is there to be used.
Inkling - ...
Ice Climbers - Sakurai loves them too much to exclude them due a previous system's limitations.
Takamaru - retro that got some attention recently. I see him making the jump from AT to fighter.
Rayman - trophy in Smash to me means something, and Ubisoft and Nintendo have a good working relationship right now.

DLC:

Greninja - think he'll just miss the initial cut due to being a lower priority, but like Mewtwo will return as DLC.
Wolf - high demand, doubt he'll make the initial cut due to being very low priority.
Crash - demand will skyrocket with latest remaster on Switch. I think he stands a very good chance as DLC.
King K. Rool - by popular demand, doubt he'll make base roster somehow.
New FE lord - none on the initial roster, but the FE Switch one will make the jump as DLC down the road.
Spring Man - still think DLC is slightly more likely than base roster for now.

 

[Jak_spoon]

That’s

I’m not really exactly completely dismissing him, at the same time though I don’t think he has the best chance due to him not being the most relevant. Outside of cameos and whatnot the character hasn’t really been used much.

That’s just it though. No zelda characters have or maintained relevance. And unlike other series Zelda hasn’t received “flavors of the week”. Which when you put it in that regard Majora’s mask pops up a lot compared to other characters like tetra and wolf link.

I would say wolf link would be my runner up. But I think midna actually brings his chances down for size reasons. Her hair gets pretty big. Seems a little op

 

[Deleted member]

You know, I think Smash Bros. Switch could win most anticipated game of the year in 2018. I mean BOTW did not have as much hype as this. You all are going to explode if we get news. And I am going to have to read twenty pages.

The only way I would accept Blastoise in Smash is if he does this:

Knight:

Blastoice: Nah, I am praising the rain.

I agree though, Blastoice does need that if it got in Super Smash Bros. Switch.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

I’m indifferent to the whole argument about third-parties and Nintendo diversity (I think the argument is stupid) but personally I feel from a personal perspective, considering the amount of third-parties we had in he last game, and how a lot more effort goes into obtaining those characters, I feel this game will keep new third-party additions to a minimum. I expect at least one new third-party, maybe two of we’re lucky.

Unfortunately, I would have to agree. There is already loads of third party characters in Smash 4. Not only would it be crazy to get them all back, but at add a lot more new third party characters would be fairly hard.

But I might argue we might get 2 or 3 newcomers since Rayman seems to be pretty safe (not guaranteed, but very likely). And maybe we might get another third party character depending on who Sakurai wants.

 

[Onua]

I do think people arent giving fossil fighter enough credit as a possibility.
Considering Ive seen some p out there choices on ppls personal rosters it amazes me people think Fossil Fighter is out there.
Hes not. If anything hes incredibly likely.

 

[NintenZ]

Unfortunately, I would have to agree. There is already loads of third party characters in Smash 4. Not only would it be crazy to get them all back, but at add a lot more new third party characters would be fairly hard.

But I might argue we might get 2 or 3 newcomers since Rayman seems to be pretty safe (not guaranteed, but very likely). And maybe we might get another third party character depending on who Sakurai wants.

I feel it’s between Rayman, Bomberman, and Travis.

That’s

That’s just it though. No zelda characters have or maintained relevance. And unlike other series Zelda hasn’t received “flavors of the week”. Which when you put it in that regard Majora’s mask pops up a lot compared to other characters like tetra and wolf link.

I would say wolf link would be my runner up. But I think midna actually brings his chances down for size reasons. Her hair gets pretty big. Seems a little op

At the very least, Wolf Link has the Amiibo and Twilight Princess HD going for him. That is why I could see him. Even Tetra was heavily promoted for Hyrule Warriors Legends on the 3DS basically being the poster child for that game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You know if Bomberman makes it in. His newcomer trailer or exclusive event has to involve Falco.

Spoiler

Can you guess the reference?

That weird bird robot from Bomberman Hero??

 

[Icedragonadam]

That weird bird robot from Bomberman Hero??

Think more along the lines of the dreaded "A" word among the Smash fanbase.

 

[Polan]

Unfortunately, I would have to agree. There is already loads of third party characters in Smash 4. Not only would it be crazy to get them all back, but at add a lot more new third party characters would be fairly hard.

6 third party characters in a 58 character roster is "loads"?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I feel it’s between Rayman, Bomberman, and Travis.

Rayman? I think there's a lot more universes that would fit better into Smash. Like Castlevania. I'm not against Rayman or anything, I just feel like it's weird you mentioned that, but not Castlevania. Or even Assassin's Creed.

Personally I don't think we're gonna get anything beyond Bomberman & Simon Belmont, unless there's some highly requested balllot characters I'm unaware of like Bayonetta.

I think we may see more third party content in the form of stages and trophies. Maybe a Rabbids, Monster Hunter, or Okami stage.

Think more along the lines of the dreaded "A" word among the Smash fanbase.

Sorry. No idea what you're talking about. Lol.

 

[NintenZ]

Rayman? I think there's a lot more universes that would fit better into Smash. Like Castlevania. I'm not against Rayman or anything, I just feel like it's weird you mentioned that, but not Castlevania. Or even Assassin's Creed.

Personally I don't think we're gonna get anything beyond Bomberman & Simon Belmont, unless there's some highly requested balllot characters I'm unaware of like Bayonetta.

I think we may see more third party content in the form of stages and trophies. Maybe a Rabbids, Monster Hunter, or Okami stage.


Sorry. No idea what you're talking about. Lol.

I mean Rayman does make a degree of sense if you think about it, his rights are easily negotiable, he’s a very popular request, and his moveset would be easy to make as well while still being unique at the same time. He’s also appeared in many games across the years ranging all the way from the JAGUAR, so honestly I feel he’s a safe third-party pick.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Since my reference is pretty obscure I edited that earlier post.

Anyways. I still think we're getting more 3rd party characters. Mainly because of hype inducing they are now thanks to Cloud and Bayonetta.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Unfortunately, I would have to agree. There is already loads of third party characters in Smash 4. Not only would it be crazy to get them all back, but at add a lot more new third party characters would be fairly hard.

But I might argue we might get 2 or 3 newcomers since Rayman seems to be pretty safe (not guaranteed, but very likely). And maybe we might get another third party character depending on who Sakurai wants.

I don't get this mentality that Rayman is likely because he was a trophy. And I don't see why it would be crazy to get all the characters back. They probably just used what was already made from Smash for Wii U to create Smash 5. Especially if Bayonetta and Corrin were being made around the time that Smash 5 started development.

 

[NintenZ]

I don't get this mentality that Rayman is likely because he was a trophy. And I don't see why it would be crazy to get all the characters back. They probably just used what was already made from Smash for Wii U to create Smash 5. Especially if Bayonetta and Corrin were being made around the time that Smash 5 started development.

Cloud is in a pretty tough spot though since Sakurai said that he was almost impossible.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Never made a prediction roster, so eh let's do it. Why not?

View attachment 140878


Newcomers:

Dixie Kong - recognizable, relevant, easy to base a model off of (Diddy's model), decently popular
Sylux - best shot at a Metroid villain that is hinted to appear in the next game whilst appearing in recent titles.
Bandana Dee - HAL using him more and more
Alolan Pokemon Trainer - don't think Sakurai has abandoned this idea entirely and won't gimp Charizard by sticking him with other Pokemon again. Hence, the Alolan Pokemon Trainer makes her mark!
Isabelle - highly marketable and promoted, popular and in a big series.
Rex & Pyra - Monolith work closely with Sakurai, move set potential is there to be used.
Inkling - ...
Ice Climbers - Sakurai loves them too much to exclude them due a previous system's limitations.
Takamaru - retro that got some attention recently. I see him making the jump from AT to fighter.
Rayman - trophy in Smash to me means something, and Ubisoft and Nintendo have a good working relationship right now.

DLC:

Greninja - think he'll just miss the initial cut due to being a lower priority, but like Mewtwo will return as DLC.
Wolf - high demand, doubt he'll make the initial cut due to being very low priority.
Crash - demand will skyrocket with latest remaster on Switch. I think he stands a very good chance as DLC.
King K. Rool - by popular demand, doubt he'll make base roster somehow.
New FE lord - none on the initial roster, but the FE Switch one will make the jump as DLC down the road.
Spring Man - still think DLC is slightly more likely than base roster for now.

So here are my thoughts based on my predictions.

Dixie Kong: Is possible. Tropical Freeze has her return in another major role so I can see her.
Sylux: I personally feel like he would make for better DLC. Especially for after Metroid prime 4 comes out.
Bandana Dee: Also possible with how much his presence has grown in the kirby series.
Aloan Pokemon trainer: I really don't see it happening. Especially if Charizard wouldn't be a part of it. It would also be making 3 entirely new characters persumebly. Including that would make 12 newcomers in the base roster. Which is optimistic. Not terribly optimistic, but still optimistic. Seeing as the pokemon trainer concept was done before I can't really deny the possibility, but I personally don't think it will come back.
Isabelle: Won't deny it. Certainly possible with how much she is marketed. I think it would still depend on how Sakurai thinks of handling her.
Rex & Pyra: All depends on Sakurai's project plan. If he wrote down "new xenoblade character" and went to monolith to see Xenoblade 2 stuff then I see Rex getting in.
Inkling: N/A
Ice Climbers: I also see them coming back.
Takamaru: If sakurai wants a new retro rip this would certainly be it.
Rayman: Don't really have a comment. All third parties are as likely as each other to me.

Dlc section
Greninja: I do not see Greninja being cut. He is one of the most popular pokemon currently. That one japanese poll that included every pokemon even had him at the number 1 spot. Mewtwo being cut in brawl was due to very special circumstances. One of those being sonic.
Wolf: I can see this.
Crash: Once again no comment on third parties
King K Rool: He would be really smart dlc. So I do agree with this.
New Fe Lord: I would of course need to actually see the new lord, but assuming they have someting special about them they would make great dlc.
Springman: Also agreed that he probably miss the mark for the base roster. Probably will be one of the first dlc characters.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I mean Rayman does make a degree of sense if you think about it, his rights are easily negotiable, he’s a very popular request, and his moveset would be easy to make as well while still being unique at the same time. He’s also appeared in many games across the years ranging all the way from the JAGUAR, so honestly I feel he’s a safe third-party pick.

Okay, but there are plenty of characters and games who are more popular than him. I'm not sure what you're evidence is that he's easily negotiable or that he's a popular request. Do you have access to the Smash ballot results? Did you talk to Ubisoft about negotiating Rayman's inclusion. If that's what Sakurai even wants in the first place?

I'm just wondering what your basis is that Rayman has something that other third parties don't.

 

[RandomAce]

You know, I think Smash Bros. Switch could win most anticipated game of the year in 2018. I mean BOTW did not have as much hype as this. You all are going to explode if we get news. And I am going to have to read twenty pages.

If Nintendo ever puts a Smash trailer, oh boy, get ready for these forums to go in hyper mode.

Okay, but there are plenty of characters and games who are more popular than him. I'm not sure what you're evidence is that he's easily negotiable or that he's a popular request. Do you have access to the Smash ballot results? Did you talk to Ubisoft about negotiating Rayman's inclusion. If that's what Sakurai even wants in the first place?

I'm just wondering what your basis is that Rayman has something that other third parties don't.

Rayman has always been pretty close with Nintendo, and seeing how Ubisoft was even allowed to make a Mario game speaks volume about Nintendo’s trust with Ubisoft, so Rayman is in the realm of possibility. Plus, unlike other third parties characters, can be easily negotiable due to Nintendo’s trust with Ubisoft, which makes him ahead of other third parties. Not to mention Rayman can also fit into Smash pretty well due to his cartoony nature. (His amiibo would suck though )

Also, I can’t imagine getting Bomberman and especially Simon Belmont without getting Snake first, Snake is like Konami’s poster boy and a fan favorite from Smash.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Cloud is in a pretty tough spot though since Sakurai said that he was almost impossible.

Dude. Where are you getting all of these conclusions from? Like do you normally just go around making declarative statements based on absolutely nothing like you know anything about how video game companies negotiate with one another?

How is Cloud in a tough spot? He's already in the game.

 

[NintenZ]

Okay, but there are plenty of characters and games who are more popular than him. I'm not sure what you're evidence is that he's easily negotiable or that he's a popular request. Do you have access to the Smash ballot results? Did you talk to Ubisoft about negotiating Rayman's inclusion. If that's what Sakurai even wants in the first place?

I'm just wondering what your basis is that Rayman has something that other third parties don't.

I think you’re looking a little too deep into this. What I mean by negotiable is a similar reason for Bayonetta, her game being exclusive to Wii U made her easy to negotiate. Similarly in Japan Rayman Legends is a Nintendo exclusive, which is what I mean by easy to negotiate, and by him being a popular request I’m not referring to the Ballot but more so just in general he’s a big name when third-parties are brought up (Though yes I understand the concept of echo-chambers and whatnot he’s just a character I see quite a bit that’s mentioned quite a bit, and things such as the trophy and the leak amplified this as well), I wouldn’t say that there’s overwhelming outcry for him, just that he’s popular in the realm of Smash. Also I don’t think we’d get two other Konami characters before Snake in all honesty.

 

[Starcutter]

I made a "Want" roster.

I don't think probably like 60-70% of my newcomers to actually be in the game, but here goes.

REMEMBER, THIS IS A WANT ROSTER

 

[NintenZ]

Dude. Where are you getting all of these conclusions from? Like do you normally just go around making declarative statements based on absolutely nothing like you know anything about how video game companies negotiate with one another?

How is Cloud in a tough spot? He's already in the game.

... Let’s remain calm, we’re talking about a video game, it’s nothing to really get up-in-arms about.

What I meant was that getting Cloud back for the next game might be a little tough because of the licensing issues that went on with obtaining him for DLC, notice how his stage only has two songs and how they couldn’t even get his English voice. When it comes to their IPs Square tends to be very protective.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Rayman has always been pretty close with Nintendo

How? Because his games appeared on Nintendo consoles?

and seeing how Ubisoft was even allowed to make a Mario game speaks volume about Nintendo’s trust with Ubisoft, so Rayman is in the realm of possibility since unlike other third parties characters, can be easily negotiable due to Nintendo’s trust with Ubisoft, which makes him ahead of other third parties. Not to mention Rayman can also fit into Smash pretty due to his cartoony. (His amiibo would suck though )

I didn't realize the point was to include third parties based on how EASY it is to get them.

Also, I can’t imagine getting Bomberman and especially Simon Belmont without getting Snake first, Snake is like Konami’s poster boy.

Honestly, how do you guys think negotiations work? Like if Sakurai wants Bomberman or Simon Belmont and he goes to Konami, Konami's just gonna be like "No. You have to put who we say in Smash. And for some reason we care that you want two of our characters, but not this specific one!"

You understand third party company's are a little more polite about not intruding on Sakurai's vision. That's why Namco isn't breathing over his shoulder like "You gotta use the Ghostly Adventures version of Pac-Man and make stages adverting our new games!"

It's gonna be about who Sakurai wants to put on the roster. So if a third party company says "No, you can't use this character until you use this character" than he's not gonna do it. Unless that's what he wants. It's not about who the poster boy of the company is.

 

[Superyoshiom]

I’m pretty sure you’re going to get a surprise. I don’t think this smash is going to be anything like our current predictions which is why I think they have been so silent. I wouldn’t be surprised if something crazy like a dozen major characters got reworked and new characters are just a handful. The series is getting close to needing a change and it might be now.

I'd kill for this. There's only 6 or so generally generally accepted choices for Nintendo characters round here, and Sakurai can always add 2 or 3 surprise choices like he's known to do. And given that we've exhausted all the most requested third parties, it's better to spend that time reworking veterans like Ganondorf and Zelda.

I made a "Want" roster.

I don't think probably like 60-70% of my newcomers to actually be in the game, but here goes.

REMEMBER, THIS IS A WANT ROSTER

Lycanroc would be a really cool addition. We haven't gotten a quadrapedal character before, save for Ivysaur. I'd love to see how he plays, even if Decidueye's a bit more likely.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I just realized something about cuts.

Why are we so adamant on them? Unless Sakurai is still working on content right now for the game. He's been at this one for multiple years now with no real deadline set on him.

Time constraints is his number one reason thus far for why someone has been cut. I find cuts to have the likelihood of being less severe and jarring this time more likely than ''Beloved fan favorite removed!"

 

[NintenZ]

I didn't realize the point was to include third parties based on how EASY it is to get them.

Just gonna come out and say that no one said that that was the case, only that it was a factor.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

... Let’s remain calm, we’re talking about a video game, it’s nothing to really get up-in-arms about.

I am calm.

What I meant was that getting Cloud back for the next game might be a little tough because of the licensing issues that went on with obtaining him for DLC

That makes no sense. We got Cloud into Smash, but it's gonna be hard to keep Cloud in Smash, because it was hard to get Cloud in Smash.

See what I mean with you making assumptions? You're assuming it was hard to get Cloud in Smash and now you're assuming that for some reason Square suddenly doesn't want Cloud in Smash.

I'm not being aggressive, dude. I'm asking you to qualify you're weird assumptions.

notice how his stage only has two songs and how they couldn’t even get his English voice. When it comes to their IPs Square tends to be very protective.

That doesn't prove anything. You're proposal is that Square doesn't want Cloud in Super Smash Bros suddenly for no reason.

Like if there's a contract or whatever, I seriously doubt they have to renegotiate just because they are bringing the game to a new console.

Just gonna come out and say that no one said that that was the case, only that it was a factor.

He literally said that Rayman is more likely because he's easier to negotiate than other third parties.

 

[Superyoshiom]

I just realized something about cuts.

Why are we so adamant on them? Unless Sakurai is still working on content right now for the game. He's been at this one for multiple years now with no real deadline set on him.

Time constraints is his number one reason thus far for why someone has been cut. I find cuts to have the likelihood of being less severe and jarring this time more likely than ''Beloved fan favorite removed!"

It'd be interesting to create a priority list of veterans for the next Smash. For example:

1) Mario
2) Link
3) Donkey Kong

...And so on.

 

[Starcutter]

Lycanroc would be a really cool addition. We haven't gotten a quadrapedal character before, save for Ivysaur. I'd love to see how he plays, even if Decidueye's a bit more likely.

Why does literally everyone forget that exists?

 

[Superyoshiom]

Why does literally everyone forget that exists?

Holy cow I'm stupid. It's even a canine. Maybe it's because it wasn't primarily the dog. I'd like to see a wolf-like character in Smash, you know, besides the obvious one.

 

[Jak_spoon]

Dude. Where are you getting all of these conclusions from? Like do you normally just go around making declarative statements based on absolutely nothing like you know anything about how video game companies negotiate with one another?

How is Cloud in a tough spot? He's already in the game.

You should listen to source gaming on YouTube. They translate a lot of articals from sakurai where he talks about stuff like this.

If you look at a lot of the third party reps what they have are very tight bonds between companies. It’s a Japanese thing for sure. Like square enix, sega, namco, have all done cross over games that mix their characters with Nintendo. Usually when this happens both companies get to share their liscence between characters. Now that we see ubi is sharing characters with Nintendo right

 

[Starcutter]

Holy cow I'm stupid. It's even a canine. Maybe it's because it wasn't primarily the dog. I'd like to see a wolf-like character in Smash, you know, besides the obvious one.

Yeah I get you.

I haven't played much of the new Rivals of Aether DLC but the new character Sylvanos looks partially like what I'd want from Lycanroc.

 

[Sid-cada]

6 third party characters in a 58 character roster is "loads"?

I does not surprise me that the number of third parties seems fairly large, at least in terms of newcomers. Newcomers do take up a larger portion of the minds of people, and we got a larger percentage of third party newcomers this time arround.

Brawl has 16 newcomers (being generous here counting Trainer as one person), with 2 third parties. 2/16= 12.5%

Smash for had 21 newcomers (again being generous, counting each MIi as a separate character), with 5 being third party. 5/21 = aprox. 23.8%.

Both of those are the most generous in giving third parties the lowest discrepancy, and shifting either of them would mean the percentage of third parties doubled.

This brings up an interesting point; How many characters do you expect this time around, and out of those, how many of those do you think will be third parties? What do you think a good percentage of newcomer third parties is?