Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Danpal65]

Going off of Samus's silhouette in the Smash teaser trailer she seems to be sporting her Other M design again; the shoulders give it away.

I really hope that is not the case .

I did actually like Other M (I know I am one of the weird ones) but the Samus Retunrs design is leagues better.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I thought Samus was gorgeous in Smash 4, Other M design and everything. She looked super sexy and sleek.

 

[Danpal65]

I thought Samus was gorgeous in Smash 4, Other M design and everything. She looked super sexy and sleek.

Oh she did look pretty sharp, and the detail in her suit was pretty nice, but, in comparison to the Samus Returns Varia Suit that sleekness just does not hold up to the bulkier, more powerful look. Samus is supposed to be a bounty hunter, so she needs heavy duty armour to protect herself.

The Other M suit made sense for that game as there was a whole bunch of dashing around for combo attacks and what not, but like with many things in Other M it does not wholly represent the power and strength that Samus is supposed to have. Unless that is another function that we are just waiting for Adam's orders on...

 

[DutchPichu]

I hope those are the new looks:

Metroid: Samus Returns look
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild look (obviously)
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild look (I'm not too sure about this one though)
A look to match Zelda's Breath of the Wild look
A look to match the other Zelda characters
More akin to his look in Fire Emblem: Fates, somewhat more dark
Same goes for Robin, slightly darker clothing is preferable
Updated to look more like his Star Fox: Zero look
Same as Fox
Animal Crossing: New Leaf look
The Wii Fit U look fits her much better imo

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I've seen a lot of people saying the shoulders look bigger like in Samus Returns.


The shadows are to vague for anything definitive anyway, I don't even agree with what most people seem to consider the lineup

The shoulders in the silhouette don't have those thingamajigs (I don't know what to call them) coming out of them. The only version of the Varia Suit (not counting the NES original) that doesn't have those is the Other M one.

 

[Danpal65]

I hope those are the new looks:

Metroid: Samus Returns look
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild look (obviously)
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild look (I'm not too sure about this one though)
A look to match Zelda's Breath of the Wild look
A look to match the other Zelda characters
More akin to his look in Fire Emblem: Fates, somewhat more dark
Same goes for Robin, slightly darker clothing is preferable
Updated to look more like his Star Fox: Zero look
Same as Fox
Animal Crossing: New Leaf look
The Wii Fit U look fits her much better imo

Adding onto this it would be great if we could see Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser all get their appearances to match the detail that was present in Super Mario Odyssey.

Spoiler: Mario Odyssey Post Game

Yoshi could get the same treatment as well.

I can definitely see the whole Zelda cast (aside form Toon Link) having their designs updated to BotW, with hopefully Sheik and Ganondorf hopefully getting custom models based off of the style of the game, like Sheik in Brawl.

Aside from that and the ones you mentioned I am not sure if there are any other characters that would need their models updated. Oh perhaps the Donkey Kong characters as well.

 

[DutchPichu]

In what aspect are the DK character looks updated in Tropical Freeze?

 

[Danpal65]

In what aspect are the DK character looks updated in Tropical Freeze?

Well aside form D.K. apparently getting a nose job in the new Tropical Freeze port (apparently that's an actual thing)

I meant more along the lines of using the more realistic fur textures that are present in that game as opposed to what is already in Smash. Plus, I am pretty sure Diddy Kong has a backpack in that game.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

In what aspect are the DK character looks updated in Tropical Freeze?

Donkey Kong got a nose job.

The doctor totally botched it.

UsWeekly is reporting about it.

It's the talk of the tabloids.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I really hope they update Samus' design, it's not that the Other M design is bad, it fit with what Other M was trying to do, but I do prefer when the Power Suit looks to have more weight to it. The Samus Returns design is ace, I feel like in the future it'll be known as the game with the cool suits.

 

[BluePikmin11]

My friend @Delzethin made a really good analysis on whether or not Smash Bros. Switch will be a port or new game:

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So do we think that Bayonetta changed the no guns rule? Or were her guns just out there and fantasy enough to be an exception?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I have a cool idea for a Ridley moveset...

One that takes advantage of his large size while giving us a play style that we have not had before that is also true to the character.

It's actually a sort of grappler/zoner/trapper hybrid. One where Ridley has a special command grab special move and uses slow projectiles and large hitboxes to trap the opponent in their shield before going for the command grab. Thus giving us a brutal, highly offensive, yet tricky playstyle that fits with Ridley's intelligence and animal like savagery. You force them into submission and when you get them where you want them, you go for the big hit. Very Ridley like in my opinion.

I won't go into full detail unless everyone wants to hear it though.

Movesets are a fair amount of work.

 

[Danpal65]

So do we think that Bayonetta changed the no guns rule? Or were her guns just out there and fantasy enough to be an exception?

If anyone broke the rule it would have been Snake in Brawl. In comparison to him though, I feel Bayonetta falls more into the camp of Fox and Falco where it is much more fantasy/game-y.

I have a cool idea for a Ridley moveset...

One that takes advantage of his large size while giving us a play style that we have not had before that is also true to the character.

It's actually a sort of grappler/zoner/trapper hybrid. One where Ridley has a special command grab special move and uses slow projectiles and large hitboxes to trap the opponent in their shield before going for the command grab. Thus giving us a brutal, highly offensive, yet tricky playstyle that fits with Ridley's intelligence and animal like savagery. You force them into submission and when you get them where you want them, you go for the big hit. Very Ridley like in my opinion.

I won't go into full detail unless everyone wants to hear it though.

Movesets are a fair amount of work.

That sounds pretty awesome actually. The constant pressuring of the opponent really reflects Ridley in my opinion. Nice concept!

 

[Wyoming]

I won't go into full detail unless everyone wants to hear it though.

You know the answer to this

 

[NintenRob]

I don't mind Villager getting taller, but I really dislike the default male look in that game so I'd rather avoid it

 

[Deleted member]

Change of topic, but I fail to get why so many people are convinced we'll get a Fire Emblem newcomer.

It's not because we've got FE newcomers in each Smash installment that'll also necessarily be the case here. The same has been said for Star Fox remember?

Also, aside of remake, mobile app and spin-off, we haven't got a new mainline FE game since Fates.

To me the only way we'd get a FE newcomer is if Sakurai pulls a new and includes the protagonist of FE Switch basing on early designs from IS.

And even then, after the amount of salt /'s inclusion has generated and the global despise towards FE that resulted, I honestly think Sakurai will refrain himself to do it this time.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Also, aside of remake, mobile app and spin-off, we haven't got a new mainline FE game since Fates.

Not that I would argue that a FE newcomer is a shoo-in, but the assumption that remakes are irrelevant to Sakurai aren't valid, given that Sakurai was disappointed he didn't know enough about Shadow Dragon ahead of schedule in Brawl to update Marth's design. There is also the fact the only reason Ocarina of Time got a stage on the 3DS is because of its remake.

 

[Curious Villager]

Change of topic, but I fail to get why so many people are convinced we'll get a Fire Emblem newcomer.

It's not because we've got FE newcomers in each Smash installment that'll also necessarily be the case here. The same has been said for Star Fox remember?

Also, aside of remake, mobile app and spin-off, we haven't got a new mainline FE game since Fates.

To me the only way we'd get a FE newcomer is if Sakurai pull a new and include the protagonist of FE Switch basing on early designs from IS.

And even then, after the amount of salt /'s inclusion has generated and the global despise towards FE that resulted, I honestly think Sakurai will refrain himself to do it this time.

If Sakurai's not including any new FE characters this time, then I hope that he at least looks into some of IS's other franchises to include a character from.

It would be nice to see series like Paper Mario, Panel de Pon, Pushmo and/or Advance Wars be given some more love too...

Not that I would argue that a FE newcomer is a shoo-in, but the assumption that remakes are irrelevant to Sakurai aren't valid, given that Sakurai was disappointed he didn't know enough about Shadow Dragon ahead of schedule in Brawl to update Marth's design. There is also the fact the only reason Ocarina of Time got a stage on the 3DS is because of its remake.

Plus Pokemon Trainer's design was based off Firered and Leafgreen.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If Sakurai's not including any new FE characters this time, then I hope that he at least looks into some of IS's other franchises to include a character from.

It would be nice to see series like Paper Mario, Panel de Pon, Pushmo and/or Advance Wars be given some more love too...



Plus Pokemon Trainer's design was based off Firered and Leafgreen.

His inclusion in general was influenced by the Gen 1 remakes.

Besides, fan reactions to FE would more likely affect Corrin's chance of being a high-priority returning character (since his inclusion heavily intensified the hatred for FE character representation) than the chance of getting a new FE character.

 

[DutchPichu]

I would even say that I don't think it's likely for Fire Emblem to get a new character this time around. Its popularity is not that huge as Pokémon, Mario or Zelda. The amount of hate Sakurai got for putting Corrin in. He reminds that. We will probably stick with Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin and perhaps Roy.

Just replayed Rhythm Heaven: Megamix. Even more hyped about the idea a Rhythm Heaven character is highly likely. :-) I love that series just as much as Smash Bros. and it would be the best combination ever! Any Rhythm Heaven character is an instant main.

 

[Cosmic77]

Quick question, are Mipha and Urbosa the most popular Champion because I recall Aonuma mentioning them in an interview around the start of this year? Those would be the most likely Champions I would assume.

As for your argument. Possibly attract a few buyers, sure, but we could say that towards any unique SSB4 newcomers and prospective Smash Switch newcomers not named Inklings which got confirmed early on for a reason. But few doesn't mean a lot and there's not going to be a backlash for not including a Champion if there wasn't for K. Rool or Ridley's exclusion last game. At most, some people will be disappointed but they will buy Smash like everyone else will. To get a backlash, you have to cut the Marios, Pikachus, Links, and Kirbys and even in a rebooted roster, we're never going to lose that in a healthy Smash future. That said, I will entertain the tie in idea.

If they want to take advantage of tieing in BOTW to Smash, all they need are Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf with an emphasison BOTW Link and possible moveset changes alongide ATs, a new stage, and items. Aside from the possibility that a Champion becomes an unlockable we don't hear about until after release (theoretically), if they do get announced beforehand, the best way to ensure that Mipha/Urbosa gets noticed is to make them the focus of any BOTW tie-ins to Smash and why BOTW fans who aren't fans of Smash may want to play as them in this game. Otherwise they'll just be there as another newcomer, not anymore special than your typical Nintendo character. My question is, would Mipha/Urbosa's role in BOTW and popularity be significant enough to be a selling point like Zelda and Sheik were in Melee?

Also if another Zelda characters is not needed, then they are completely "unnecessary". It doesn't matter how good of an addition Mipha/Urbosa would be, they are not so crucial that Sakurai can't afford to skip out on them. This is not something that applies exclusively to them, not a single prospective newcomer has to be included because everyone has a reason to be skipped over. In fact, I would argue that half of the current roster are easy cuts because sorry to say, the likes of Lucas, Roy, Bowser Jr. and Mr. Game & Watch aren't going to deter a lot of people from the next game if they don't show up and I say this as someone who want Lucas to be a mainstay. The reality is that a reboot is coming and while it may not be this game, it could be the next and we'll have to prepare for many painful cuts when that time comes. At that point I don't think discussing if the next one-shot Zelda character will get in Smash will become the most important topic.

Sorry for the late response.

From what I've seen, Mipha is the most popular Champion (particularly in Japan) worldwide, with Urbosa as the runner-up. Revali isn't as popular as Urbosa in NA and EU, but he does seem to almost match her in Japan. Daruk is the only Champion who doesn't seem to be very popular in any country, but I'm assuming that's mainly because his personality doesn't make him stick out as much as a lovesick Zora or a tsundere Rito.


Anyway, to respond to your comments, none of the Nintendo characters we got in Smash 4 (bar Mewtwo) were popular or iconic enough to the point to where a majority of fans would be incredibly disappointed if they were absent from the game. Were Rosalina, Shulk, and Robin "needed"? Not really. Would people flip out if Greninja, WFT, and Dark Pit were excluded? Again, not really.

I understand your argument, but it seems like you're exclusively applying it to the Champions and the Zelda series. An absence of newer characters like Decidueye and Rex/Pyra would be disappointing for Pokemon and Xenoblade fans respectively, but they aren't crucial inclusions that people wouldn't be able to get over. Both are likely to be completely irrelevant by their next game. Still, that doesn't mean Sakurai shouldn't consider them. They're both characters that fans of their franchises would recognize, especially those who picked up Sun/Moon or XC2 as their first game of the series. Same thing applies to the Champions.

Personally, I feel like the Champions did enough in BotW to make them stand out and be remembered, and after getting amiibo and a special DLC focusing on them, I definitely believe there's a market out there for the Champions. Yes, Link and Zelda would probably be enough to attract some BotW fans, but a new character like Mipha or Urbosa would be even more effective. They're not required, but that applies to practically every franchise now, doesn't it?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I understand your argument, but it seems like you're exclusively applying it to the Champions and the Zelda series. An absence of newer characters like Decidueye and Rex/Pyra would be disappointing for Pokemon and Xenoblade fans respectively, but they aren't crucial inclusions that people wouldn't be able to get over. Both are likely to be completely irrelevant by their next game. Still, that doesn't mean Sakurai shouldn't consider them. They're both characters that fans of their franchises would recognize, especially those who picked up Sun/Moon or XC2 as their first game of the series. Same thing applies to the Champions.

I wonder if Rex really is that wanted, or just plain old expected.

 

[Danpal65]

I wonder if Rex really is that wanted, or just plain old expected.

Personally I would like him in Smash. I thoroughly enjoyed Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and feel he would be a great addition to the roster. So I guess I am both wanting and expecting him

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Sorry for the late response.

From what I've seen, Mipha is the most popular Champion (particularly in Japan) worldwide, with Urbosa as the runner-up. Revali isn't as popular as Urbosa in NA and EU, but he does seem to almost match her in Japan. Daruk is the only Champion who doesn't seem to be very popular in any country, but I'm assuming that's mainly because his personality doesn't make him stick out as much as a lovesick Zora or a tsundere Rito.


Anyway, to respond to your comments, none of the Nintendo characters we got in Smash 4 (bar Mewtwo) were popular or iconic enough to the point to where a majority of fans would be incredibly disappointed if they were absent from the game. Were Rosalina, Shulk, and Robin "needed"? Not really. Would people flip out if Greninja, WFT, and Dark Pit were excluded? Again, not really.

I understand your argument, but it seems like you're exclusively applying it to the Champions and the Zelda series. An absence of newer characters like Decidueye and Rex/Pyra would be disappointing for Pokemon and Xenoblade fans respectively, but they aren't crucial inclusions that people wouldn't be able to get over. Both are likely to be completely irrelevant by their next game. Still, that doesn't mean Sakurai shouldn't consider them. They're both characters that fans of their franchises would recognize, especially those who picked up Sun/Moon or XC2 as their first game of the series. Same thing applies to the Champions.

Personally, I feel like the Champions did enough in BotW to make them stand out and be remembered, and after getting amiibo and a special DLC focusing on them, I definitely believe there's a market out there for the Champions. Yes, Link and Zelda would probably be enough to attract some BotW fans, but a new character like Mipha or Urbosa would be even more effective. They're not required, but that applies to practically every franchise now, doesn't it?

Honestly, we’re at the point where no character besides Inklings are truly necessary. The only characters I view as “necessary” are main characters or lead characters of new franchises. We’ve gotten most of the main character from the bigger games. I feel like Shulk was a “necessary add” as being the equivalent of Marth to his own franchise, but there may be differing opinions.

At this point what gets a new character in is what makes them stand out as far as what they can do. I’m sure something could be done to make one of the Champions fun to play, so that could very well happen. Same thing with Decidueye or Rex + Pyra.

I wonder if Rex really is that wanted, or just plain old expected.

Some may expect Rex + Pyra, but honestly I think they’d be real fun to play just based on the Art/Affinity system they could pull off. Not to mention the potential stages and music they could bring with them...oh goodness.
—-
Also, just wanted to post that I had a very vivid dream of the Smash reveal last night. I must have Smash on the brain. Aegislash was the Pokémon newcomer. I remember this and was like, “No Decidueye? Sadness.” But then got excited because he looked fun to play.

Then, it changed to a slower scene and got nonsensical. DK and Bowser were in a sort of...mine setting? A cartoony K.Rool walks up and opens an envelope saying, “No.” Then everything got crazy and Sakurai laughed in the background as several different ideas got “No.” stamped on them.

Crazy stuff.

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't know if its too late for it to happen, but I'd also like to see Samus with the Samus Returns design as her costume.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a cool idea for a Ridley moveset...

One that takes advantage of his large size while giving us a play style that we have not had before that is also true to the character.

It's actually a sort of grappler/zoner/trapper hybrid. One where Ridley has a special command grab special move and uses slow projectiles and large hitboxes to trap the opponent in their shield before going for the command grab. Thus giving us a brutal, highly offensive, yet tricky playstyle that fits with Ridley's intelligence and animal like savagery. You force them into submission and when you get them where you want them, you go for the big hit. Very Ridley like in my opinion.

I won't go into full detail unless everyone wants to hear it though.

Movesets are a fair amount of work.

That looks like something a high tier / top tier can do, nice. It also seems interesting.
You made Ridley viable and in the right size.

Change of topic, but I fail to get why so many people are convinced we'll get a Fire Emblem newcomer.

It's not because we've got FE newcomers in each Smash installment that'll also necessarily be the case here. The same has been said for Star Fox remember?

Also, aside of remake, mobile app and spin-off, we haven't got a new mainline FE game since Fates.

To me the only way we'd get a FE newcomer is if Sakurai pull a new and include the protagonist of FE Switch basing on early designs from IS.

And even then, after the amount of salt /'s inclusion has generated and the global despise towards FE that resulted, I honestly think Sakurai will refrain himself to do it this time.

Sakurai actually added Lucina / Robin because he liked playing FE Awakening. I would like some new FE characters, considering NintenZone got me into FEH. I love FEH.

 

[Cosmic77]

Going off of Samus's silhouette in the Smash teaser trailer she seems to be sporting her Other M design again; the shoulders give it away.

I've seen a lot of people saying the shoulders look bigger like in Samus Returns.


The shadows are to vague for anything definitive anyway, I don't even agree with what most people seem to consider the lineup

I don't know if its too late for it to happen, but I'd also like to see Samus with the Samus Returns design as her costume.

Since this was brought up, I thought I would point out one thing about Samus's silhouette in the teaser.

Instead of looking at the size of Samus's shoulders, take another look at the space between the head and the shoulders. In Smash 4, Samus's shoulders are almost touching her head, regardless of what position her arms are in. In the trailer, we can see a pretty decent gap between Samus's head and her shoulders.

I don't know which suit Samus is wearing, but this does look a little different than the Other M: model used in Smash 4. At the very least, we might be looking at an updated design of her Other M: look. Hopefully it ends up being the Samus Returns suit, but I'm going to keep my expectations low for now.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wonder if Rex really is that wanted, or just plain old expected.

He's a pretty straightforward hero type (though then again Nintendo loves that sort of thing), but I do like the small details the character has throughout the game that makes him at least believable. Like him being able to handle Blades relatively quickly makes sense because he already had fighting instincts due to his Salvaging job. But also since he's a novice he couldn't quite reach maximum power due to a lack of experience. It's similar to how Shulk being able to fight was believable since he likes to construct and research weapons, but was still clueless about the Monado's true potential.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I can't see Lucina getting cut.

She's easily the most popular of all the Fire Emblem additions last game.

Even if she was just girl Marth in Smash.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I fully agree. The differences between Palutena and the FE cast compared to the more expressive characters like Wario and Dedede are incredibly obvious. I know it's also a difference in characterisation but still.

I prefer a silly Smash to a gritty Smash.

The thing to keep in mind is that not every Nintendo franchise is cartoonish in nature. Metroid and Fire Emblem are designed to be more realistic, so it would feel out of character if anyone from Fire Emblem shows cartoonish expressions.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I can't see Lucina getting cut.

She's easily the most popular of all the Fire Emblem additions last game.

Even if she was just girl Marth in Smash.

Of the 3 clones added to Smash 4, she has the biggest advantages. Unlike Dr. Mario, she isn't a cut veteran who was always a low priority/last-minute addition, and unlike Dark Pit, she isn't an unpopular character from a franchise that has no future.

Lucina has become a face of FE and definitely is pretty important to her franchise. She could still be a low priority character, but I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up the Toon Link of Smash 5.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The whole "no future" thing mentioned with the Ice Climbers last game honestly sounds too vague. Like what exactly constitutes as having "no future"?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The whole "no future" thing mentioned with the Ice Climbers last game honestly sounds too vague. Like what exactly constitutes as having "no future"?

My guess is franchise that theoretically have no plausible chance of getting a new game ever again.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

"No Future" isn't a good measure as Nintendo keeps randomly resurrecting old series.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I can't see Lucina getting cut.

She's easily the most popular of all the Fire Emblem additions last game.

Even if she was just girl Marth in Smash.

Unless she's decloned, she'll obviously be lower priority, and thus I wouldn't be surprised at all if she leaves.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Unless she's decloned, she'll obviously be lower priority, and thus I wouldn't be surprised at all if she leaves.

There's one thing you're forgetting.

Just how gosh darn popular she is in the Fire Emblem fandom.

Popularity can save a character. Sure she might end up being a Lucas or Mewtwo situation, but I just don't see Sakurai tempting the fates (pun intended) to cut her.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

There's one thing you're forgetting.

Just how gosh darn popular she is in the Fire Emblem fandom.

Popularity can save a character. Sure she might end up being a Lucas or Mewtwo situation, but I just don't see Sakurai tempting the fates (pun intended) to cut her.

Mewtwo is one of the most iconic and popular Pokemon characters of all time and he still got cut in Brawl. If he of all characters could get cut, then so can Lucina.

 

[Knight Dude]

"No Future" isn't a good measure as Nintendo keeps randomly resurrecting old series.

Still waiting for F-Zero to get a new game, so I can get trashed playing people online.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Mewtwo is one of the most iconic and popular Pokemon characters of all time and he still got cut in Brawl. If he of all characters could get cut, then so can Lucina.

It's because of Mewtwo I don't think Sakurai will be so quick to cut supremely popular characters. I feel as if Mewtwo was meant for Brawl but Sonic did him in.

He also probably was someone that was meant for base roster of Smash 4 but timing pushed him to be the starter for DLC.