Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

Things is though it would not make any sense for Toon Zelda to use the same abilities as the current Zelda moveset. Yes they are both magical, but Toon Zelda has nothing to do with Ocarina of Time.

Personally, if Sakurai is going to include some sort of Toon representation of Zelda Tetra would be a much better fit. She would be much more distinct and is seen to be much more capable without having to posses a Phantom.

What do you mean "having" to possess a Phantom? You say it like it's a bad thing. Like something that was shoe horned in that doesn't really have anything to do with the character.

 

[Danpal65]

What do you mean "having" to possess a Phantom? You say it like it's a bad thing. Like something that was shoe horned in that doesn't really have anything to do with the character.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Zelda possessing a Phantom is a bad thing, heck it was cool to have her actually be a character that comes along and plays a significant role in the game. To me, it just kinda seems like the most representative moveset for Toon Zelda would be to basically have a Phantom with all the different Phantom abilities be playable and not visibly be her.

 

[MrReyes96]

The problem is that we don't have a usable Ganondorf in BotW.
He's (as every story/main quest element) a joke as a boss.
His character design is useless to something as Smash.So at max we can have a BotW Link and Zelda.
I never understood the BotW hype, people talk as it was game-breaking and changed Zelda forever.
BotW have good ideas, but nothing new or ground-breaking at all.
You think dividing as the "classic Zelda" and "BotW" is more important than "Toon" and "Not Toon" games...
TloZ:SS is the epitome of motion-controls and then they go for other route to the next game (maybe because it wasn't popular).
It's possible (and I want a lot) that they work to make a main-quest game again and not a open world Zelda in the next one.

TLoZ: Breath of the Wild is a great game. But is not a REVOLUTION.
Please stop treating BotW as the first open-world game ever.

We didn’t have a usable Sheik in twilight princess either, the same thing can be done to Ganondorf.
And unlike Sheik at least he has a version of himself he can be based on, namely calamity Ganon.

To deny the impact of botw is silly, not since ocarina of time has Nintendo had such a critical and commercial success:
And yes I think Classic Link is more important, but that’s not important. The idea would be to unify both of the smash links as one character and represent the franchise pre-botw. It’s pretty clear that like ocarina before it, breath of the wild laid the groundwork for future Zelda games.

There’s no reason why they can’t make an open world game with some of the aspects of previous Zelda games that people want.

 

[UserKev]

So you're problem is that there are multiple characters that share the bloodline of the most important character of the universe. And your solution is to instead add way less popular one-off characters???

How is that an insult to add the characters that are actually popular and prominent in the series? I mean, I guess it's an insult to a cynical fanboy, but it's not an insult to The Legend of Zelda.

There's literally ZERO similarities between ANY of these characters. They don't even share the same NAME and none of them are the same person. And all three of these characters are just as unique if not more unique than the ones you suggested.

It's not an insult at all. Like it's OBJECTIVELY not an insult in any way. Quite the opposite. It's a COMPLIMENT.

Except that the one off characters are way more interesting than the characters your defending.

 

[Onua]

Listening to that Source Gaming video and seeingnthe Splatoon 1 Inklings really gives me the feeling that this game is going to include mostly Wii U and post-2014 3DS stuff.

So what did the Wii U have?

-Tropical Freeze was a big one. I'm betting we'll atleast get a new stage and possibly a character.
-We also had The Wonderful 101 (but that didn't do too well). So I'm not sure about it but who knows.
-Captain Toad Treasure Trackers. If there's going to be a new Mario character it'll probably be him or nobody.
-Star Fox Zero may have been a failure but I highly believe a lot of designs changes to Fox and Falco and other influences and from that game will be in here.
-If there is a new Xenoblade character it might be from Xenoblade Chronicles X, not 2.
-Tokyo Mirage Sessions was highly praised but it's got that wierd crossover status so I'm not entirely sure.

Honestly there's not much for the Wii U. However, the 3DS had a ton of stuff since Smash 4.

Here's some interesting highlights from the 3DS after Smash came out.

-Codename STEAM. Highly unlikely this will get much more than trophies and music (I'm hoping for music since it had some killer tunes.)
-Fossil Fighters Frontier. I doubt anything for this one too because the series has been around for a while and only gets trophies.
-Chibi-Robo! Zip-Lash. Another unlikely one as this was the most hated game in the series.
-Rhythm Heaven Mega Mix. This one is interesting as it is the first RH game to have a protagonist, which may have been the reason why the series never got a character to begin with. I don't know. I'm only speculating.
-Boxboy! Here's a series that saw a lot of success and even got it's own amiibo! There may be a chance we see something here.
-Nintendo Badge Arcade was actually quite the hit. I could see Arcade Bunny being an assist.
-Style Savvy: Fashion Forward. I don't know. The most we will probably get is music and trophies.
-Miitopia. Probably will get a stage like Tomodachi Life did.

I left out certain games on the 3DS that were from series that already had lots of content in Smash and probably won't add anything much from them like Tri Force Heroes.

Actually Fossil Fighters came out AFTER brawl. So like it makes sense that smash 4 was the first time saw anything for it

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Zelda possessing a Phantom is a bad thing, heck it was cool to have her actually be a character that comes along and plays a significant role in the game. To me, it just kinda seems like the most representative moveset for Toon Zelda would be to basically have a Phantom with all the different Phantom abilities be playable and not visibly be her.

Well, the idea for the Spirit Tracks version of Zelda is that her Phantom form is just her strongest form, but she can shed that form anytime she wants. Sacrifice the power for the agility.

It wouldn't be two characters like Zelda and Sheik. Just two sets of abilities. Possibly the Spirit form of Zelda just being a more helpless fighter that's used to get around better or make a proper recovery. Kind of like how Bowser Jr can shoot out of his mech, but Zelda would actually be able to do it with unlimited time.

My idea is that when Zelda sheds her Phantom armor, she forfeits her ability to use special attacks with the B button, but can still use other strategies until she decides she wants her armor back. That is until someone breaks the armor. The idea would be that she's pretty much impossible to launch in her Phantom form, and you have to destroy it, making her vulnerable, possibly even lighter than Jigglypuff because she's a ghost.

In my humble opinion, this one of the most unique ideas for a newcomer.

 

[Danpal65]

Well, the idea for the Spirit Tracks version of Zelda is that her Phantom form is just her strongest form, but she can shed that form anytime she wants. Sacrifice the power for the agility.

It wouldn't be two characters like Zelda and Sheik. Just two sets of abilities. Possibly the Spirit form of Zelda just being a more helpless fighter that's used to get around better or make a proper recovery. Kind of like how Bowser Jr can shoot out of his mech, but Zelda would actually be able to do it with unlimited time.

My idea is that when Zelda sheds her Phantom armor, she forfeits her ability to use special attacks with the B button, but can still use other strategies until she decides she wants her armor back. That is until someone breaks the armor. The idea would be that she's pretty much impossible to launch in her Phantom form, and you have to destroy it, making her vulnerable, possibly even lighter than Jigglypuff because she's a ghost.

In my humble opinion, this one of the most unique ideas for a newcomer.

Well, that would certainly be an interesting mechanic. Be interesting to see how it would be balanced though, especially since, as you said, she would be incredibly frail in her ghost form, going from damage sponge to glass cannon. I guess you would have the armour break at around 100% or something, although that might be a bit too late, so perhaps 80%.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Except that the one off characters are way more interesting than the characters your defending.

I'm, sorry, but. No. They're not. I must sincerely disagree with you.

 

[Superyoshiom]

I haven't seen too much talk on graphical touchups the game could do. It's a very good-looking game, but I think they should try rendering the fur on DK and Diddy so it looks more like how they do in Tropical Freeze. That fur was majestic

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Well, that would certainly be an interesting mechanic. Be interesting to see how it would be balanced though, especially since, as you said, she would be incredibly frail in her ghost form, going from damage sponge to glass cannon. I guess you would have the armour break at around 100% or something, although that might be a bit too late, so perhaps 80%.

I think it'd be cool if the armor worked in some way akin to this.
https://icons.gg/news/afi-and-galu

Obviously it couldn't work exactly like that because Zelda IS the armor, but if she could ditch it somewhere and teleport back to it by pressing down+B would be cool. Like you could fight as Zelda while your armor sat stationary on the other side of the stage. Zelda is much more fragile, but has magic and some attacks that can lead to setups. You can hit your opponents towards the armor, press down+B to teleport to the armor, and then get a follow up in the armor.

The primary difference between Afi and Galu and Toon Zelda+Phantom Armor is that Zelda's body obviously doesn't stay where you left it to teleport to the phantom armor. So she can teleport to the armor from wherever or perhaps within a certain range, but she can't teleport to a distant location from the armor. She can just leave the armor at wherever the armor is.

 

[Danpal65]

I haven't seen too much talk on graphical touchups the game could do. It's a very good-looking game, but I think they should try rendering the fur on DK and Diddy so it looks more like how they do in Tropical Freeze. That fur was majesticView attachment 140795

I would like to see this version of the game step up the graphics of Sm4sh whilst maintaining the art style. I was actually pretty disappointed with how Link ended up looking in the game compared to his appearances in the trailers, like MegaMan's one. Having more detailed hair, fur and clothing textures would be great and would help further differentiate this game from Sm4sh.

I have seen some people mention in the past that they would like to see battle damage, like how Little Mac gets bandaids as he takes more damage, but I am not too sure that it would really fit the tone of Smash. I could have seen it working in Brawl perhaps, but not so much in this game or Sm4sh.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think it'd be cool if the armor worked in some way akin to this.
https://icons.gg/news/afi-and-galu

Obviously it couldn't work exactly like that because Zelda IS the armor, but if she could ditch it somewhere and teleport back to it by pressing down+B would be cool. Like you could fight as Zelda while your armor sat stationary on the other side of the stage. Zelda is much more fragile, but has magic and some attacks that can lead to setups. You can hit your opponents towards the armor, press down+B to teleport to the armor, and then get a follow up in the armor.

The primary difference between Afi and Galu and Toon Zelda+Phantom Armor is that Zelda's body obviously doesn't stay where you left it to teleport to the phantom armor. So she can teleport to the armor from wherever or perhaps within a certain range, but she can't teleport to a distant location from the armor. She can just leave the armor at wherever the armor is.

That's pretty cool, but that would inevitably cause the problem of her armor getting in the way of other stage hazards. Maybe if it was like Wario's bike and other characters you could pick it up.

I like the idea of her being a total wrecking machine until her armor is shattered into a million pieces with that classic glass break sfx and you get to be like "Not so tough now, little girl! HAHAHAHAHA!"

Then fighting becomes more about racking up damage while you attempt to avoid your opponent until your meter allows you to summon another Phantom, giving you enough power to actually launch and KO your opponents.

In other words, Spirit Zelda is about using weak attacks that rack up lots of damage and Phantom Zelda is about using slow, powerful attacks that really launch people.

For me it works like this:

Neutral Special: Torch Phantom
Side Special: Wrecker Phantom
Up Special: Warp Phantom
Down Special: Shed (Phantom Armor explodes)

Final Smash: Arrow of Light (Toon Zelda jumps out of her Phantom to use it. She doesn't need to worry about her lost armor when there's a Smash Ball.)

 

[RandomAce]

I would like to see this version of the game step up the graphics of Sm4sh whilst maintaining the art style. I was actually pretty disappointed with how Link ended up looking in the game compared to his appearances in the trailers, like MegaMan's one. Having more detailed hair, fur and clothing textures would be great and would help further differentiate this game from Sm4sh.

I have seen some people mention in the past that they would like to see battle damage, like how Little Mac gets bandaids as he takes more damage, but I am not too sure that it would really fit the tone of Smash. I could have seen it working in Brawl perhaps, but not so much in this game or Sm4sh.

I really hope so. Seeing how this game most likely started as a port and is going to be a full game with only 2 years of dev time makes me nervous that this game ends up looking similar to Smash 4.

I want Smash 5 to take full capacity of the Switch’s power and improve the graphics off from Smash 4 to justify it as a sequel. Having new voice clips for all the characters would also help differentiate this as well, but that’s my two cents.

 

[MrReyes96]

I haven't seen too much talk on graphical touchups the game could do. It's a very good-looking game, but I think they should try rendering the fur on DK and Diddy so it looks more like how they do in Tropical Freeze. That fur was majesticView attachment 140795

If I can’t see Wario’s nose hairs I’m cancelling my pre-order

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I would like to see this version of the game step up the graphics of Sm4sh whilst maintaining the art style. I was actually pretty disappointed with how Link ended up looking in the game compared to his appearances in the trailers, like MegaMan's one. Having more detailed hair, fur and clothing textures would be great and would help further differentiate this game from Sm4sh.

I have seen some people mention in the past that they would like to see battle damage, like how Little Mac gets bandaids as he takes more damage, but I am not too sure that it would really fit the tone of Smash. I could have seen it working in Brawl perhaps, but not so much in this game or Sm4sh.

The characters in Smash for Wii U are unbelievably beautiful. No complaints here except that I want Fox & Falco's designs updated.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I really hope so. Seeing how this game most likely started as a port and is going to be a full game with only 2 years of dev time makes me nervous that this game ends up looking similar to Smash 4.

I want Smash 5 to take full capacity of the Switch’s power and improve the graphics off from Smash 4. Having new voice clips for all the characters would also help differentiate this as well, but that’s my two cents.

If the game started around when we think it did, it's had as much dev time as any other Smash game, so that shouldn't really be a concern aside from the fact that there haven't been any major graphical improvements since Wii U. So I mean models and stuff aren't going to look much more HD if at all, but that shouldn't be a problem. Most of the Wii U models were gorgeous.

That's pretty cool, but that would inevitably cause the problem of her armor getting in the way of other stage hazards. Maybe if it was like Wario's bike and other characters you could pick it up.

I like the idea of her being a total wrecking machine until her armor is shattered into a million pieces with that classic glass break sfx and you get to be like "Not so tough now, little girl! HAHAHAHAHA!"

Then fighting becomes more about racking up damage while you attempt to avoid your opponent until your meter allows you to summon another Phantom, giving you enough power to actually launch and KO your opponents.

In other words, Spirit Zelda is about using weak attacks that rack up lots of damage and Phantom Zelda is about using slow, powerful attacks that really launch people.

For me it works like this:

Neutral Special: Torch Phantom
Side Special: Wrecker Phantom
Up Special: Warp Phantom
Down Special: Shed (Phantom Armor explodes)

Final Smash: Arrow of Light (Toon Zelda jumps out of her Phantom to use it. She doesn't need to worry about her lost armor when there's a Smash Ball.)

I like the idea, but it reminds me of Zelda and Sheik a bit, where Sheik was intended to rack up a ton of damage, but Zelda had all the kill power. We see how that went haha. I guess my suggestion would probably suffer the same fate, though. Maybe they could just balance it better this time...

 

[MrReyes96]

I do think smash Wii U is lacking graphically
Especially as far as human hair and faces
Link and Palutena come to mind
I hope they go with a different art style at least so it’s distinguishable from 4.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If the game started around when we think it did, it's had as much dev time as any other Smash game, so that shouldn't really be a concern aside from the fact that there haven't been any major graphical improvements since Wii U. So I mean models and stuff aren't going to look much more HD if at all, but that shouldn't be a problem. Most of the Wii U models were gorgeous.

With the exceptions of characters that Sakurai takes the liberty of updating like Link, there aren't even any existent changes to make to a majority of the roster.

So most of the roster is probably ported through reuse of assets. I mean I can't see them cutting characters when the game started development immediately after Smash for Wii U and Nintendo is still selling Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS.

There's gonna be just as much division as if they had separate rosters in the Wii U & 3DS version. People who are upset about absent characters in the Switch version might just purchase the 3DS version if they don't already own it.

The only characters that can really be changed are Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Villager, Fox, and Falco.

I'm not saying it doesn't take time to reuse character assets that have already been created. You still have to balance every character and apply them to all of the new modes in the game. That takes time. But, I think it's going to be necessary that the time to do that is taken.

 

[Radical Bones]

I do think smash Wii U is lacking graphically
Especially as far as human hair and faces
Link and Palutena come to mind
I hope they go with a different art style at least so it’s distinguishable from 4.

I fully agree. The differences between Palutena and the FE cast compared to the more expressive characters like Wario and Dedede are incredibly obvious. I know it's also a difference in characterisation but still.

I prefer a silly Smash to a gritty Smash.

 

[MrReyes96]

I fully agree. The differences between Palutena and the FE cast compared to the more expressive characters like Wario and Dedede are incredibly obvious. I know it's also a difference in characterisation but still.

I prefer a silly Smash to a gritty Smash.

Exactly! I’m not asking for a gritty smash, I just want the human characters to be on the same level of expressiveness and polish.
And if possible make it so some of the human characters don’t have such similar faces

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I fully agree. The differences between Palutena and the FE cast compared to the more expressive characters like Wario and Dedede are incredibly obvious. I know it's also a difference in characterisation but still.

Blame anime.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Blame series that don't have wacky characters.

 

[RandomAce]

If the game started around when we think it did, it's had as much dev time as any other Smash game, so that shouldn't really be a concern aside from the fact that there haven't been any major graphical improvements since Wii U. So I mean models and stuff aren't going to look much more HD if at all, but that shouldn't be a problem. Most of the Wii U models were gorgeous.

I just hope Sakurai doesn’t take the lazy route and just port them over without polishing them or giving them a new feel, although the models are beautiful is still room for improvement for them to fix some things like Palutena’s hair and some of the textures on the models.

I fully agree. The differences between Palutena and the FE cast compared to the more expressive characters like Wario and Dedede are incredibly obvious. I know it's also a difference in characterisation but still.

I prefer a silly Smash to a gritty Smash.

To be fair, half the time you can’t really their faces since they’re a lot smaller. Compare that to King Dedede and Wario where they have huge heads that you can spot from a mile away.

Palutena and Pit could use some more charisma.

The Fire Emblem cast, not so much since they’re all similar in personality and design.

Also anime.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm glad that Super Smash Bros for Wii U returned the game to the colorful comic book/cartoon style that it originally was.

And not since Smash 64 have the sounds of punching and clobbering been so satisfying. In Melee, hitting people made the sound of being smacked with a water noodle and KO explosions sounded like falling in a haystack. I couldn't even describe Brawls.

Now clobbering people with characters like Little Mac sounds so great and the KO sfx is a satisfying thunderous explosion.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'm glad that Super Smash Bros for Wii U returned the game to the colorful comic book/cartoon style that it originally was.

And not since Smash 64 have the sounds of punching and clobbering been so satisfying. In Melee, hitting people made the sound of being smacked with a water noodle and KO explosions sounded like falling in a haystack. I couldn't even describe Brawls.

Now clobbering people with characters like Little Mac sounds so great and the KO sfx is a satisfying thunderous explosion.

I think the only sound from Brawl that I miss hearing is the sound of Ike's sword. Yeah, it sounded weird, but I found it oddly satisfying.

 

[Danpal65]

Blame anime.

Blame series that don't have wacky characters.

Guys, guys. We're illogical Smash players we have to blame Sakurai!

 

[Superyoshiom]

Guys, guys. We're illogical Smash players we have to blame Sakurai!

It's weird, because looking at the art from Kid Icarus Uprising and Fire Emblem during dialogue, characters are extremely expressive. I feel like if Smash were a cel-shaded game we'd get a lot more personality from these characters as opposed to the more grounded 3d approach.

 

[Deleted member]

Even if I can't prove it with real numbers, I think it should go without saying that adding (or cutting) certain characters will attract the attention of consumers from a specific demographic. In this argument's case, a character from BotW might attract a few of the millions of people who bought and played BotW. "If you enjoyed playing BotW, then you'll love Smash Bros for Switch! Play as Link, Zelda, and the brand new fighter, (insert Champion)!".

This is a tactic many different companies use. If there's something popular that lots of people like and recognize, then they'll try to tie in that certain thing with other products so they'll make more money. It's one of the reasons why so many companies that sell food want to get Frozen characters on the front of their packages. A kid is more likely to buy their product if they can relate it to the extremely overrated movie that they really like.


I'm not saying that an additional Zelda character is needed, but I do wish people would stop acting like adding a newer Zelda character is completely "unnecessary". The franchise is extremely iconic, and even if the Zelda character Sakurai would add doesn't attract many new fans, they couldn't be any worse than a character from a much more niche franchise.

Quick question, are Mipha and Urbosa the most popular Champion because I recall Aonuma mentioning them in an interview around the start of this year? Those would be the most likely Champions I would assume.

As for your argument. Possibly attract a few buyers, sure, but we could say that towards any unique SSB4 newcomers and prospective Smash Switch newcomers not named Inklings which got confirmed early on for a reason. But few doesn't mean a lot and there's not going to be a backlash for not including a Champion if there wasn't for K. Rool or Ridley's exclusion last game. At most, some people will be disappointed but they will buy Smash like everyone else will. To get a backlash, you have to cut the Marios, Pikachus, Links, and Kirbys and even in a rebooted roster, we're never going to lose that in a healthy Smash future. That said, I will entertain the tie in idea.

If they want to take advantage of tieing in BOTW to Smash, all they need are Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf with an emphasison BOTW Link and possible moveset changes alongide ATs, a new stage, and items. Aside from the possibility that a Champion becomes an unlockable we don't hear about until after release (theoretically), if they do get announced beforehand, the best way to ensure that Mipha/Urbosa gets noticed is to make them the focus of any BOTW tie-ins to Smash and why BOTW fans who aren't fans of Smash may want to play as them in this game. Otherwise they'll just be there as another newcomer, not anymore special than your typical Nintendo character. My question is, would Mipha/Urbosa's role in BOTW and popularity be significant enough to be a selling point like Zelda and Sheik were in Melee?

Also if another Zelda characters is not needed, then they are completely "unnecessary". It doesn't matter how good of an addition Mipha/Urbosa would be, they are not so crucial that Sakurai can't afford to skip out on them. This is not something that applies exclusively to them, not a single prospective newcomer has to be included because everyone has a reason to be skipped over. In fact, I would argue that half of the current roster are easy cuts because sorry to say, the likes of Lucas, Roy, Bowser Jr. and Mr. Game & Watch aren't going to deter a lot of people from the next game if they don't show up and I say this as someone who want Lucas to be a mainstay. The reality is that a reboot is coming and while it may not be this game, it could be the next and we'll have to prepare for many painful cuts when that time comes. At that point I don't think discussing if the next one-shot Zelda character will get in Smash will become the most important topic.

I basically stopped posting once Roy was confirmed for Smash 4 back in June 2015 (I made only a few posts since then, only one in 2016, and none in 2017).

I intended for Smash 4 to be the final game in the series I would do any speculation for. I have lost nearly all of my interest in speculation and anticipation for future Smash Bros. titles. Nearly every character I wanted in has gotten in, and the few left that I care for, have sub-50% prospect of getting in at this point (most notably and unfortunately, Ridley).

However, due to this Smash Bros. installment having a very small speculation window from its unveil (Brawl's unveil to release date was 1 year and nearly nine months, Smash 4 was a year and three months, and assuming Smash Switch does release in December 2018 at the latest, it will be only nine months). At this point (ignoring how long the DLC period is, assuming there is DLC), there are only eight months of speculation left.

I have been out of the loop for nearly three years now. However, there are a few that wish for me to come back and do some more analyses for this upcoming Smash Bros. Truth be told, I am not anticipating this Smash Bros. game like I did the previous four titles. There has been an interest for me to do a reprise of my ULTIMATE character analysis topic that I did for Brawl and Smash 4. I will do as much.

There are 23 series now do analyses for (Mario, Donkey Kong, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Yoshi, Kirby, Star Fox, Pokemon, Mother, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, Wario, Pikmin, Kid Icarus, Animal Crosssing, Wii Fit, Punch-Out, Mii, Xenoblade, Splatoon, Retro, New Series, and Third Party), so it will take a lot of time to get everything done (I did not even finish the analyses for Pokemon, Fire Emblem, and New Series for Smash 4 due to how much more busy I was). However, I plan to get out one new series analysis every week (which will give me the pacing necessary to gradually chip away at the meatier and more time consuming series to properly analyze).

I did not plan on returning, and in many ways, my return is like that of a phantom. I do not intend to be at the forefront of speculation this time around, and there are many others who have taken up that baton. Like Miyamoto's suggestion to Itoi for the re-start of Mother 3's development, my place on the speculation scene will be that of a small play. I hope that through me publishing yet another iteration of my analysis topic that it gives the speculation scene a sense of continuity and history (my first detailed analyses were made over a decade ago).

I hope that my analyses offer some sober and detailed insight into the prospects of characters many cherish and desire to make either a reprisal or a grand debut in what is likely to be the biggest Nintendo release of the year. I also appreciate if any of you would help provide materials such as polls or particular official developer statements regarding contenders for Smash Bros. for the Switch (Smash 5... or Smash 6?). I will post a list of "contenders" (characters with at least a 25% prospect of being in the next Smash Bros. according to my own personal assessments) either later tonight or tomorrow. Please feel free to to PM me with any materials or links that you feel would be integral to a character's analysis and overall assessment.

It is my hope and ambition to have most of my analyses done months before the next game's release, and updating analyses as new information comes accordingly.

I might drop in a few threads to put my two cents in. It was really the fact that Smash 5/6 ended up happening so soon after the end of Smash 4 DLC (two years after Bayonetta and Corrin were released), and that there is still some interest in my work that I returned to do analysis for this game in the series. Had the next Smash Bros. title had the same break between announcements as Brawl and Smash 4 had (Brawl was announced when Melee was 4.5 years old, and Smash 4 when Brawl was 5.5 years old), I would likely have not even had interest to do a reprisal of the ULTIMATE analysis topic.

Regardless, I hope I can offer some interesting insight and have a different presence this time around than I did when I speculated for Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4. I hope I can offer encouragement to other speculators and the fans of particular characters as well, and I see a lot of good work with the next generation of speculators during the twilight of Smash 4 (such as PushDustin's website). It is good to be back.

Great to see you around if only briefly.

Something you might want to look at is for characters you want to analyze to look at the support thread and if you have any questions, ask them. Also ask PushDustIn if you have any questions.

Oh man, it's good to see you again.

Im looking foward to those character analysis (analysises? analisies?......) of yours.

Hello there. It seems like you've known of him for a long time. How long have you known ChronoBound on the web if at all?

So, aside from a character, what kind of ARMS stuff would you guys want to see? I'm sure a stage would probably be made, but which one, I don't know.

I think those health canisters could make for a good item choice, seeing as it was built for an arena based fighter. And it would cause people to probably fight over it/stage control. Anyone else thinking that?

I want Biff the Announcer in a role be it an announcer in an ARMS stage, or an AT.

 

[Danpal65]

It's weird, because looking at the art from Kid Icarus Uprising and Fire Emblem during dialogue, characters are extremely expressive. I feel like if Smash were a cel-shaded game we'd get a lot more personality from these characters as opposed to the more grounded 3d approach.

I think you are right. Actually, Nintendo characters on the whole are usually really expressive, heck, some character basically communicate and story-tell through expression (Kirby, Mario, Donkey Kong as well). I guess it may be a bit difficult to translate that into the character whilst they are jumping around and bashing each other up. You certainly see more of it through their taunts and victory animations though.

 

[Deleted member]

Hello there. It seems like you've known of him for a long time. How long have you known ChronoBound on the web if at all?

I have been lurking Smashboards since 2013 (around August if i stand corrected) and im familiar with many users of that era, and what was going on back then. I may have created an account in 2015 (i was called Speedwagon back in 2015-early to mid 2016) but i always kept my eye on Smashboards and this has been the place i have looking when it came to Smash news, topics and rumors (this is the only place where i have an account) and i remember a lot of things

For instance, i know that you used to be the owner of Mega Man for Smash 4 thread and you used to be called Super Smash Bros Fan, i also remember when Chrom was seen by many as almost inevitable and the Gematsu Leak (you also opened that thread if i remember right), the Alfonso memes, the ridicously long Ridley for Smash 4 thread that was over 1000 pages long, the fear of Pac-Man using his GA design, and other stuff that was happening in Smash 4 speculation era in general.

Anyhow, i stubled upon one of Chronobound's post in the Roy thread back in 2013 (the Smash 4 uncomfirmed veterans section) and it changed my view of the character forever, and i became a Roy supporter ever since. I liked to read all the character analysis that he made, so much so that i decided to go to the Brawl speculation boards and read his Brawl Character analysis too, if only to see how Brawl speculation was back then.

I wasn't a Roy bandwagoner either, Roy became one of my mains in Smash 4 as soon i got my hands on him (at least that was until i stupidly rested my 3DS's data losing all the DLC in the process) and have an amiibo of him.

He did talk to me in some Conversatoins (as in Smashboards conversations) here and there, but there were mostly infrequent.

 

[Lyndis_]

The characters in Smash for Wii U are unbelievably beautiful. No complaints here except that I want Fox & Falco's designs updated.

I'd personally also like to see an update to how Yoshi and Samus look in Smash 5. I thought they both looked pretty lacking.

For Samus (other than how much I hate the OM design) I thought they looked very plastic and just had very blurry textures wherever there was supposed to be the darker detail colours.

For Yoshi they just seemed to look awkward all the time. Always either incredibly jagged compared to other characters, clipping, textures/colours not really going well together or usually a combination of the three just make him look pretty ugly to me even if he was technically graphically better than Brawl's Yoshi.

I don't know if it was just me though, simply because I was saying it ever since they were on the Smash website and nobody seemed to understand what I meant at the time.

Spoiler: Is this just me?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'd personally also like to see an update to how Yoshi and Samus look in Smash 5. I thought they both looked pretty lacking.

For Samus (other than how much I hate the OM design) I thought they looked very plastic and just had very blurry textures wherever there was supposed to be the darker detail colours.

For Yoshi they just seemed to look awkward all the time. Always either incredibly jagged compared to other characters, clipping, textures/colours not really going well together or usually a combination of the three just make him look pretty ugly to me even if he was technically graphically better than Brawl's Yoshi.

I don't know if it was just me though, simply because I was saying it ever since they were on the Smash website and nobody seemed to understand what I meant at the time.

Spoiler: Is this just me?

The definition on Yoshi's textures is pretty gross... The transition from white to green is just terrible. He's one character that could definitely use some touching up...

 

[Pakky]

I'd personally also like to see an update to how Yoshi and Samus look in Smash 5. I thought they both looked pretty lacking.

For Samus (other than how much I hate the OM design) I thought they looked very plastic and just had very blurry textures wherever there was supposed to be the darker detail colours.

For Yoshi they just seemed to look awkward all the time. Always either incredibly jagged compared to other characters, clipping, textures/colours not really going well together or usually a combination of the three just make him look pretty ugly to me even if he was technically graphically better than Brawl's Yoshi.

I don't know if it was just me though, simply because I was saying it ever since they were on the Smash website and nobody seemed to understand what I meant at the time.

Spoiler: Is this just me?

what's with the stucco bump map on his shoes?

 

[Ghirahilda]

I'd personally also like to see an update to how Yoshi and Samus look in Smash 5. I thought they both looked pretty lacking.

For Samus (other than how much I hate the OM design) I thought they looked very plastic and just had very blurry textures wherever there was supposed to be the darker detail colours.

For Yoshi they just seemed to look awkward all the time. Always either incredibly jagged compared to other characters, clipping, textures/colours not really going well together or usually a combination of the three just make him look pretty ugly to me even if he was technically graphically better than Brawl's Yoshi.

I don't know if it was just me though, simply because I was saying it ever since they were on the Smash website and nobody seemed to understand what I meant at the time.

Spoiler: Is this just me?

About Yoshi: We now just need the White and Brown variations right?

 

[SuperMii3D]

About Yoshi: We now just need the White and Brown variations right?

Nooo, the Orange one is missing too. It's a sin to the game.

 

[Lyndis_]

About Yoshi: We now just need the White and Brown variations right?

Nooo, the Orange one is missing too. It's a sin to the game.

If we want to be super nitpicky, there's also technically Magenta Yoshi from New Super Mario Bros. U. I believe that's the last real colour differentiation of Yoshi also not in Smash.

Gold and Bubble are technically different also, but they're not nearly as different to Yellow/Blue as Magenta is to Red or Pink and wouldn't make much sense as alts.

I would love for Nintendo to add the Brown, White, Orange and Magenta Yoshi alts for a perfect 12.

Spoiler: Magenta Yoshi

 

[SuperMii3D]

If we want to be super nitpicky, there's also technically Magenta Yoshi from New Super Mario Bros. U. I believe that's the last real colour differentiation of Yoshi also not in Smash.

Gold and Bubble are technically different also, but they're not nearly as different to Yellow/Blue as Magenta is to Red or Pink and wouldn't make much sense as alts.

I would love for Nintendo to add the Brown, White, Orange and Magenta Yoshi alts for a perfect 12.

Spoiler: Magenta Yoshi

Getting even nitpickier we have the Dash Yoshi and the Orange Yoshi being slightly different in color too.

Spoiler

 

[Danpal65]

I'd personally also like to see an update to how Yoshi and Samus look in Smash 5. I thought they both looked pretty lacking.

For Samus (other than how much I hate the OM design) I thought they looked very plastic and just had very blurry textures wherever there was supposed to be the darker detail colours.

For Yoshi they just seemed to look awkward all the time. Always either incredibly jagged compared to other characters, clipping, textures/colours not really going well together or usually a combination of the three just make him look pretty ugly to me even if he was technically graphically better than Brawl's Yoshi.

I don't know if it was just me though, simply because I was saying it ever since they were on the Smash website and nobody seemed to understand what I meant at the time.

Spoiler: Is this just me?

Welp. That has totally destroyed the way I look at Yoshi in Sm4sh now...

I did like the way that Yoshi moved and behaved in Sm4sh though. Had a lot more character and did not have his dinosaur scoliosis thing going on.

Samus is one that I reckon will definitely get a model update. Hopefully to her Samus Retunrs model. It looks so much better and has a real sense of weight and power behind it, which suits Samus well (hehe suit).

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Welp. That has totally destroyed the way I look at Yoshi in Sm4sh now...

I did like the way that Yoshi moved and behaved in Sm4sh though. Had a lot more character and did not have his dinosaur scoliosis thing going on.

Samus is one that I reckon will definitely get a model update. Hopefully to her Samus Retunrs model. It looks so much better and has a real sense of weight and power behind it, which suits Samus well (hehe suit).

Going off of Samus's silhouette in the Smash teaser trailer she seems to be sporting her Other M design again; the shoulders give it away.

 

[NintenRob]

Going off of Samus's silhouette in the Smash teaser trailer she seems to be sporting her Other M design again; the shoulders give it away.

I've seen a lot of people saying the shoulders look bigger like in Samus Returns.


The shadows are to vague for anything definitive anyway, I don't even agree with what most people seem to consider the lineup