Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Blargg888]

they serve the same purpose but if i had to choose one i'd definitely do codecs

I mean, I agree that Codecs are better, but Guidences are probably easier for them to do.
So they went with those.

*CITATION NEEDED*

Well, for Corrin, it has been stated that he was added for moveset potential, and even Sakurai had second thoughts on his inclusion. IIRC it was a Source Gaming article, but I admittedly can't locate it.

Roy was re-added due to his Smash popularity.
"We’ve received an extremely large number of votes, but of course, Lucas, Roy, and Ryu were in development even before the ballot was created. I had a grasp on their popularity and demand, though." - Sakurai.

And Lucina wasn't?

Given that Smash 4's project plan was created the same year FE:A came out, it's entirely possible that that's not the case. Though maybe it is, we don't really have a way of knowing.

For Ridley, while I don't think it has never been directly stated that he was added for the sake of the fans, I don't think there's much room for doubt on that front.


As for DS and Chrom, they were explicitly added for the fans. As stated in the direct.
Specifically, Chrom was for the East, while DS was for the West.

 

[staindgrey]

Not to challenge Sakurai, but I really don't see how he could milk Marth's moveset anymore than he already has. We already have an Echo, a semi-clone, and an Echo of the semi-clone.

At this point, unless the character can Echo Ike or Robin (or somehow Corrin, I guess) we're probably done with FE clones.

Oh I know. I meant within the context of "he picked Lucina over Lyn because she made for a good echo". That echo could have been anyone, but it was Lucina because she was originally an alternate costume for Marth.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh boy, with so many Nintendo characters out on the running with ATs and/or Spirits, we’re definitely gonna get Smash 4 style DLC with solely 3rd Parties and one FE promotion.

Am thinking this to. And am hoping that Banjo might be one of the DLC characters. Yet, with NINTENDO themselves making the picks, things will probably be way more interessting than this... I honestly don't really know what to expect anymore. Whatever you say seems likely as well, but Piranha Plant alone kinda blew that out of the way.

I have no expectation anymore, and just let Vergeben do the talk, that way I won't be surprised about the outcome.

 

[Idon]

Going off concrete numbers from the currently only official fire emblem popularity poll, the results are:
Lyn=49,917
Lucina votes=42,875
Tharja=29,540
If you want to count Masked Marth(5,420), that makes the combination 4,8295.

I'd say Lyn is still, by and large, "that female fire emblem lord" which is pretty impressive lasting power for a 15 year old GBA title, though it may have helped considering it's the first international title.

 

[Deleted member]

Also I wanna know about that interview @GoldenYuiitusin talked about. Btw, congrats on Incineroar. He seems a legit fun character to play, and am 1000000% satisfied that the new Pokemon is not Decidueye.

Diem posted it a page or so back.

And thanks.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Oh boy, with so many Nintendo characters out on the running with ATs and/or Spirits, we’re definitely gonna get Smash 4 style DLC with solely 3rd Parties and one FE promotion.

I guess i'll throw my two cents in and say if this were the case my final prediction list would be...

1) Erdrick from Dragon Quest: Promoting DQXI coming out for Switch next year (Erdrick being argubly the most iconic character to the DQ series like Cloud is to Final Fantasy)

2) Lloyd Irving from Tales of Series: Nintendo porting a Tales of game to the Switch and Bandai Namco rep who had a mii costume.

3) Heihachi from Tekken: Most iconic fighting game out there, Namco Bandai gets another rep for helping work on Smash once again. (Sakuari debated on making the character in the past but with Nintendo nudging him he might revisit this idea as Heihachi would sell very well as DLC). Also his appearence in Project X Zone 1 and 2. And Tekken 7 releasing back in 2017 for systems being his most recent appearence. Also had a mii costume.

4) Byleth from Fire Emblem Three Houses: Promoting the new games release in Spring 2019 (probably gonna be one of the last DLC charcaters like Corrin releasing in Feb 2020).

5) Dante from Devil May Cry: Possibly to cross promote DMC5 for PS4 and Bayonetta 3 for late 2019 (Also Dante appeared in Project X Zone 1 and 2)

 

[Deleted member]

One more remix before I have to go! (I don't have to go for another 20 minutes lol)
Here it is!

 

[Deleted member]

It’s Paula who prays to the people of the Earth, and at first it seems that the prayers are “swallowed by the darkness” (“but nobody came”), but then everyone who you met on your journey hears your prayers and prays for your safety. So anyone who has enough love in the world could presumably defeat Giygas, it’s not prayer but love that’s his true weakness. So I’m assuming that someone like Mewtwo or Ganondorf couldn’t beat him, but someone like Zelda probably could.

See that's the thing with the "power of love/friendship" in fictional media is that you can't quantify what each universe qualifies as "love" or "friendship" in a power sense. Does love in Earthbound mean "wanting for the safety of something/someone"? Is it "wanting for the harm of something" as the prayer seemed to damage Giygas? Is it simply love in and of itself, in any form? Even the love of evil? Could Bowser single-handedly love Giygas to death because he loves kidnapping Peach? We literally have no idea, and the entirety of Earthbound is very symbolic and metaphorical anyways so IMO it's not a good idea to put such a metaphorical and eccentric villain such as Giygas in any other sense besides Mother because of how symbolic it is.

EDIT: Removed the part about Undertale because I was wrong. Thanks Blarg888

 

[Diddy Kong]

Going off concrete numbers from the currently only official fire emblem popularity poll, the results are:
Lyn=49,917
Lucina votes=42,875
Tharja=29,540
If you want to count Masked Marth(5,420), that makes the combination 4,8295.

I'd say Lyn is still, by and large, "that female fire emblem lord"

Maybe it's cause she's missing in action for so long? Lucina didn't have that happen to her yet. I also think it's weird that Sakurai never gave Lyn more attention besides being a AT, now for the third time.

 

[SlickWylde]

What Ganondorf needs from a gameplay perspective is a reflector. Giving him his own projectile, while canon, wouldn't gel well with his playstyle, imo. But he should totally be able to shrug off and bounce back stuff hurled at him. This would also improve his ability to approach and keep him from getting walled out, and really give him that Darth Vader/Jason Voorhees/Terminator slow walk of unstoppable doom.

This might be too janky, but what if he had a passive Super Armor for all projectiles? So Fox could still spam his lasers, but other projectiles (especially those with lag) wouldn't make him flinch and would be risky to use against him. I also think his ftilt should cancel out any projectile except a fully charged samus shot.

 

[osby]

See that's the thing with the "power of love/friendship" in fictional media is that you can't quantify what each universe qualifies as "love" or "friendship" in a power sense. Does love in Earthbound mean "wanting for the safety of something/someone"? Is it "wanting for the harm of something" as the prayer seemed to damage Giygas? Is it simply love in and of itself, in any form? Even the love of evil? Could Bowser single-handedly love Giygas to death because he loves kidnapping Peach? We literally have no idea, and the entirety of Earthbound is very symbolic and metaphorical anyways so IMO it's not a good idea to put such a metaphorical and eccentric villain such as Giygas in any other sense besides Mother

An example is Undertale where I've heard (never played it but have watched my sister 100% it so excuse any errors) that monsters in that game are really weak to anyone with enough "determination". But what quantifies as "determination"? Intent to harm? Intent to save? Just intent in general?

Bottom point: Not everything is Dragon Ball and there are stories where power levels doesn't make sense after a point or because of story.

 

[monadoboy]

Her background also easily allows her to return in any random future Fire Emblem with no good reason at all, and I have no doubt she will return again in the franchise because of it

I have never considered this before and I am very exited about it, even though technically this just happened with the Tempest Trials in Heroes.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

I really don't think Spirits deconfirm characters for DLC. It's the easiest thing in the world to replace a JPG, and I doubt they'll add 1,000+ characters while leaving out specific ones for DLC.

 

[ClaTheBae]

What Ganondorf needs from a gameplay perspective is a reflector. Giving him his own projectile, while canon, wouldn't gel well with his playstyle, imo. But he should totally be able to shrug off and bounce back stuff hurled at him. This would also improve his ability to approach and keep him from getting walled out, and really give him that Darth Vader/Jason Voorhees/Terminator slow walk of unstoppable doom.

Gannon needs speed more than anything. With mobility, projectiles wouldn't wall him out and he could get in and get some hits off despite taking some damage and slight knockback.
Ganon's moves are absolutely phenomenal most of the time. Besides his up tilt and neutral b, he has great frame data and good range to boot. His only problem is he has no way to approach, or be defensive, or anything. A reflector really wouldn't do much tbh

 

[Deleted member]

I'm gonna make a bold claim
If we get Renamon, Gunvolt, Geno, AND Rayman...
we'll get Zoe too

 

[Diddy Kong]

I have never considered this before and I am very exited about it, even though technically this just happened with the Tempest Trials in Heroes.

This also made me realise it, but Fates alone should've given you such impression already. With how many characters there are in Fire Emblem, it's only natural they are gonna recycle some. And why not do this with the most popular of characters? Lucina is a given, but Ike also makes a lot of sense to randomly show up out of nowhere.

: So, land in sight finally!
*reaches land*
: Oh! There's... fighting!? Am good at that! And I enjoy that! Let me have a few swings :D

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Snakey Chantey? Ooh that's a new so-wait isn't that just an extension of the bouncy part of Gangplank Galleon? This song is my new scapegoat. Crocodile Cacophony doesn't get in? Blame Snakey Chantey. I lost a match? Blame Snakey Chantey. Dante doesn't get in and the DMC Netflix show sucks? Blame Snakey Chantey. I ****ed up my make-up? David Wise gets his ass kicked

 

[Blargg888]

But what quantifies as "determination"? Intent to harm? Intent to save?

Given the way it's presented in Undertale, determination is both of those.

I really don't think Spirits deconfirm characters for DLC. It's the easiest thing in the world to replace a JPG, and I doubt they'll add 1,000+ characters while leaving out specific ones for DLC.

They wouldn't even need to replace it. Just put the character in.

Though this does make me question what it would feel like to die, become a spirit, go back in time, and possess myself.

Weird.

 

[PsySmasher]

Maybe it's cause she's missing in action for so long? Lucina didn't have that happen to her yet. I also think it's weird that Sakurai never gave Lyn more attention besides being a AT, now for the third time.

To be fair, the Heroes poll was held all the way in 2017, so by the time the results came in, her status in Smash was probably already set in stone.

 

[Idon]

Well I've been thinking about a way to implement the OoT references (Floating, electric ball, multi-electric-ball, cape flick, ground punch) without removing the Falcondorf moveset and I think I've come up with a decentish compromise.

Jab is now cape flick. Hitboxes, electricity, frame data, everything that makes the move, the move, is the same. Just now if timed REALLY well, it can reflect energy balls.

Forward air, if he lands before finishing the entire animation, causes a shockwave on the ground as he punches it.

Neutral B, in the air only, is a projectile that causes him to levitate for a bit before tossing it. It can be charged to launch multi-balls. Grounded neutral B remains the warlock punch.

 

[SlickWylde]

Well, Steve would be surprising if he hadn’t been leaked. Lol

Wait, I didn't miss something and Steve was confirmed, right? I've been gone all weekend lol. We still don't know DLC yet, right??

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Though this does make me question what it would feel like to die, become a spirit, go back in time, and possess myself.

I'm willing the bet there's an anime that answers that question

 

[monadoboy]

I really don't think Spirits deconfirm characters for DLC. It's the easiest thing in the world to replace a JPG, and I doubt they'll add 1,000+ characters while leaving out specific ones for DLC.

Makes no sense anyway, unless they were somewhat lying about DLC not being chosen until recently, or removed Spirits of future DLC characters. Why would they remove them, anyway? Waste time and resources for something that doesn't matter anyway?

If Nintendo picked the characters I doubt they would let a random .png stop them.

Ninty: "So, we've chosen XXX character for DLC. We believe it will be profitable, help promote XXX game coming out and would bring unique things to the Smash cast."
Sakurai "Nah fam I already uploaded the .png lol"

 

[ClaTheBae]

Well I've been thinking about a way to implement the OoT references (Floating, electric ball, multi-electric-ball, cape flick, ground punch) without removing the Falcondorf moveset and I think I've come up with a decentish compromise.

Jab is now cape flick. Hitboxes, electricity, frame data, everything that makes the move, the move, is the same. Just now if timed REALLY well, it can reflect energy balls.

Forward air, if he lands before finishing the entire animation, causes a shockwave on the ground as he punches it.

Neutral B, in the air only, is a projectile that causes him to levitate for a bit before tossing it. It can be charged to launch multi-balls. Grounded neutral B remains the warlock punch.

I'm assuming you played project m 3.6 Ganon

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm still sticking to my initial prediction of two third-parties and three Nintendo reps.

I've thought about it, and I just can't see Nintendo wanting to share such a large portion of their DLC profits with other companies. Maybe if it were Sakurai, but I don't think Nintendo would go for it. Not only are first-party additions free, but newer characters can also function as advertising. Kill two birds with one stone.

 

[Potato_]

Well I've been thinking about a way to implement the OoT references (Floating, electric ball, multi-electric-ball, cape flick, ground punch) without removing the Falcondorf moveset and I think I've come up with a decentish compromise.

Jab is now cape flick. Hitboxes, electricity, frame data, everything that makes the move, the move, is the same. Just now if timed REALLY well, it can reflect energy balls.

Forward air, if he lands before finishing the entire animation, causes a shockwave on the ground as he punches it.

Neutral B, in the air only, is a projectile that causes him to levitate for a bit before tossing it. It can be charged to launch multi-balls. Grounded neutral B remains the warlock punch.

This is a real good compromise, ESPECIALLY that jab. Honestly you could just add that and I'd be fine.

 

[Idon]

This also made me realise it, but Fates alone should've given you such impression already. With how many characters there are in Fire Emblem, it's only natural they are gonna recycle some. And why not do this with the most popular of characters? Lucina is a given, but Ike also makes a lot of sense to randomly show up out of nowhere.

: So, land in sight finally!
*reaches land*
: Oh! There's... fighting!? Am good at that! And I enjoy that! Let me have a few swings :D

Because that's be narratively stupid.

"Ike, hero of Tellius, leaves the country, never to be seen again, going down in history as an enigmatic legend...

LOL EXCEPT FOR THE TIME HE SHOWED UP IN FE JAPAN AND STARTED BEATING UP MORE PEOPLE."

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think we're ever getting Digimon...
I'm pretty sure the only reason got in is because he's Nintendo

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ganon getting a reflector is honestly the best thing he can get for game accuracy as I always think of Dead Man's Volley when thinking of Ganon fights.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a bit of hope for Crash.
If not, then for second batch.

 

[Deleted member]

Given the way it's presented in Undertale, determination is both of those.

Oh alright then, I didn't know exactly bc like I said I never really was into UT I just watched my sis play it occasionally. Thanks for the clarification! I'll edit the OP

 

[DarthEnderX]

Maybe within the strict context of "Smash players who have never played FE".

That's like 100x more people than have played FE.

 

[Noipoi]

Snakey Chantey? Ooh that's a new so-wait isn't that just an extension of the bouncy part of Gangplank Galleon? This song is my new scapegoat. Crocodile Cacophony doesn't get in? Blame Snakey Chantey. I lost a match? Blame Snakey Chantey. Dante doesn't get in and the DMC Netflix show sucks? Blame Snakey Chantey. I ****ed up my make-up? David Wise gets his *** kicked

What's this about Snakey Chantey? Is it in the game?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Because that's be narratively stupid.

"Ike, hero of Tellius, leaves the country, never to be seen again, going down in history as an enigmatic legend...

LOL EXCEPT FOR THE TIME HE SHOWED UP IN FE JAPAN AND STARTED BEATING UP MORE PEOPLE."

Well, he only became a legend in Tellius. It's not like Tellius had lot's of connections to other continents. So that's still a free-pass for Ike to appear.

 

[Idon]

I'm assuming you played project m 3.6 Ganon

Ssshhhhh, I only have original ideas, donut steel.

If I had my way, we'd have the whole Project Ganondorf shebang, but there's no way that's happening.

 

[Blargg888]

Ganon getting a reflector is honestly the best thing he can get for game accuracy as I always think of Dead Man's Volley when thinking of Ganon fights.

Wouldn't it be funny if Ganondorf were to get Dead Man's Volley, and Young Link was able to reflect it with his milk taunt?

Honestly, that'd be hilariously awesome IMO.

 

[Cosmic77]

What's this about Snakey Chantey? Is it in the game?

It was confirmed today as a new remix.

 

[Deleted member]

It was confirmed today as a new remix.

Where?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What's this about Snakey Chantey? Is it in the game?

Yup, it got remixed and I'm disappointed that the "DK can only have Jungle Hijinx songs" meme or whatever is gonna be "All tracks associated with K.Rool are Gangplank Galleon variants"

 

[domriver]

I have a bit of hope for Crash.
If not, then for second batch.

you know there HAS to be more than just 5 DLC. Nintendo knows DAMN WELL DLC will SELL HUGELY that isn't a prediction people its a promise. lol I suspect at least 5 more for a total of 10 paid DLC and thats it. a 3rd set IM ALL FOR IT but i really dont know.