Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

This is an old debate, but worth pointing out to people who aren't aware, because honestly, Sakurai gets a bad rap for Ganondorf even though he's actually really accurate now. Yes, the Falcon kick has no basis in canon. Yes, Ganondorf is missing some key moves. But a lot of characters both have made up moves and are lacking iconic ones. Piranha Plant can't even spit fireballs.

Brawl and Smash 4 went to great effort to make Ganondorf more faithful to his canon portrayal. People just don't care, because all that matters is that he has a sword.

Spoiler: Side B

Spoiler: Jab

Spoiler: Warlock Punch

It's not exactly a Warlock Punch, but his punch has been changed to be more of a backhanded slap, like this one.

Spoiler: Forward Tilt

I agree with the side B and ftilt being good references, but I feel like for the jab and warlock punch, it's an extremely far reach, and not a reference you would come to naturally when seeing them unless you tried to force it.
That leaves 2 minor moves that are clear references. In my opinion, that's not exactly what I would personally call "really accurate" or a "great effort."

Besides, my issue with Ganondorf isn't that he lacks a few key iconic moves or that he has made up ones. It's that the ones he lacks almost anything recognizablely iconic to "Ganondorf" other than his general emphasis on power. While Piranha plant lacks the fireballs, it still has its far more iconic "strech-up-and-bite" move (multiple variants in fact), and whatever else was in that slew of references.

Basically, I'm of the opinion that:
If Ganondorf's going to be the incarnation that has the sword... give him the sword.
If Ganondorf's going to be the incarnation that has the magic... give him the magic.

 

[NineS]

While you're all talking about swords and magic with your Ganon Canon...

I would just like to point out that Ganondorf doesn't have any actual eyebrows, and the "eyebrows" are actually part of his hair. And that neat gemstone trinket over his "forehead" is just there to hide his bald spot and keep people from realizing it's not his actual forehead, and that the reality of it is he has virtually no forehead or real eyebrows.

 

[J0eyboi]

So, can we be honest here? The only reason we like TP Ganondorf is because of the BEARD. So I figured, if Ganondorf looked better with a beard, then I can use 5 minutes of PhotoShop magic and...

...I regret nothing.

Honestly, I think that looks better than vanilla OoT Ganondorf. Can this become canon, please?

While you're all talking about swords and magic with your Ganon Canon...

I would just like to point out that Ganondorf doesn't have any actual eyebrows, and the "eyebrows" are actually part of his hair. And that neat gemstone trinket over his "forehead" is just there to hide his bald spot and keep people from realizing it's not his actual forehead, and that the reality of it is he has virtually no forehead or real eyebrows.

You've actually got it backwards. Ganondorf doesn't have any actual hair. His "hair" is just a part of the most manly and badass unibrow in existence.

 

[staindgrey]

So, can we be honest here? The only reason we like TP Ganondorf is because of the BEARD. So I figured, if Ganondorf looked better with a beard, then I can use 5 minutes of PhotoShop magic and...

...I regret nothing.

I mean, speak for yourself. I like the entire TP design for everything better than the OoT design for everything.

No one agrees with me, but TP was just OoT but multiple tiers better. Fight me.

 

[Impa4Smash]

TP Ganondorf was the ultimate badass, but like old man badass, that relies less on physical combat and more on sheer willpower and determination to **** you up

So I think OoT design works better with kicks and punches in Smash. Though having both a la Ike would be cool

 

[Blargg888]

Besides, my issue with Ganondorf isn't that he lacks a few key iconic moves or that he has made up ones. It's that the ones he lacks almost anything recognizablely iconic to "Ganondorf" other than his general emphasis on power. While Piranha plant lacks the fireballs, it still has its far more iconic "strech-up-and-bite" move (multiple variants in fact), and whatever else was in that slew of references.

Yeah, PP has a surprisingly large number of references.
Piranha Plant has references to more than 10 different types of Piranha Plants across at least 10 different Mario games.

 

[Idon]

While you're all talking about swords and magic with your Ganon Canon...

I would just like to point out that Ganondorf doesn't have any actual eyebrows, and the "eyebrows" are actually part of his hair. And that neat gemstone trinket over his "forehead" is just there to hide his bald spot and keep people from realizing it's not his actual forehead, and that the reality of it is he has virtually no forehead or real eyebrows.

Wow, that iiiiiiis awful.
Thanks for this.

I mean, speak for yourself. I like the entire TP design for everything better than the OoT design for everything.

No one agrees with me, but TP was just OoT but multiple tiers better. Fight me.

He wields a goddamn sword that's stabbed through his chest.
How is that not the COOLEST?


Honestly, if ya want my opinion, we should go down the route that makes no one but me happy.

Trident Ganondorf, baby. Throwing spears and lightning bolts galore.

Spoiler

This as a costume as well.

 

[Impa4Smash]

It's unfortunate, but most newer characters tend to have more original movesets since most people don't like it when movesets change.

And all the Melee clones are pretty much stuck in semi-clone purgatory (for better or worse)

 

[Idon]

TP Ganondorf was the ultimate badass, but like old man badass, that relies less on physical combat and more on sheer willpower and determination to **** you up

So I think OoT design works better with kicks and punches in Smash. Though having both a la Ike would be cool

Nah, their proportions are... wildly different.
Unless you want something like this:

Spoiler

yeesh, that aint right...

 

[Zinith]

And all the Melee clones are pretty much stuck in semi-clone purgatory (for better or worse)

That's probably why most of them were cut in Brawl. Only Falco and Ganondorf remained...

 

[Blargg888]

While you're all talking about swords and magic with your Ganon Canon...

I would just like to point out that Ganondorf doesn't have any actual eyebrows, and the "eyebrows" are actually part of his hair. And that neat gemstone trinket over his "forehead" is just there to hide his bald spot and keep people from realizing it's not his actual forehead, and that the reality of it is he has virtually no forehead or real eyebrows.

Now photoshop out the eyebrows.

We need to see bare-faced Ganondorf.

The world needs this.

It's unfortunate, but most newer characters tend to have more original movesets since most people don't like it when movesets change.

And all the Melee clones are pretty much stuck in semi-clone purgatory (for better or worse)

I mean, I think all the Melee clones are fine as they are.

Falco is Fine, Doc is Fine, Pichu is Fine, and Roy is Fine.

I know people want Majora Young Link and Canondorf, and even though I at the very least want YL to have an MM alt, I think they're fine as well.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Nah, their proportions are... wildly different.
Unless you want something like this:

Spoiler

yeesh, that aint right...

Ah no, nevermind. I take it back. I guess I didn't Prepare Myself enough to see that

Now photoshop out the eyebrows.

We need to see bare-faced Ganondorf.


I mean, I think all the Melee clones are fine as they are.

Falco is Fine, Doc is Fine, Pichu is Fine, and Roy is Fine.

I know people want Majora Young Link and Canondorf, and even though I at the very least want YL to have an MM alt, I think they're fine as well.

They're definitely fine, but they could be completely unique

 

[NineS]

Now photoshop out the eyebrows.

We need to see bare-faced Ganondorf.

The world needs this.

I did you one better.
using my novice level photoshop skills...

I give you Ganondorf's True form.

The way he should've been in Ultimate.

 

[vaanrose]

I agree with the side B and ftilt being good references, but I feel like for the jab and warlock punch, it's an extremely far reach, and not a reference you would come to naturally when seeing them unless you tried to force it.
That leaves 2 minor moves that are clear references. In my opinion, that's not exactly what I would personally call "really accurate" or a "great effort."

Besides, my issue with Ganondorf isn't that he lacks a few key iconic moves or that he has made up ones. It's that the ones he lacks almost anything recognizablely iconic to "Ganondorf" other than his general emphasis on power. While Piranha plant lacks the fireballs, it still has its far more iconic "strech-up-and-bite" move (multiple variants in fact), and whatever else was in that slew of references.

Basically, I'm of the opinion that:
If Ganondorf's going to be the incarnation that has the sword... give him the sword.
If Ganondorf's going to be the incarnation that has the magic... give him the magic.

Say what you want about Warlock Punch, at best it's compromising by adjusting a non-canon move to have some canon swagger, but Jab is definitely a clear reference. He steps forward on the same leg, thrusts the same arm forward and pulls the other arm back the same way. It's just without the sword. Otherwise it's a 1:1 animation, and since it's nothing like Captain Falcon's (or Meleedorf's) jab, it's definitely intentional.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I did you one better.
using my novice level photoshop skills...

I give you Ganondorf's True form.

The way he should've been in Ultimate.

You monster. I know Ganondorf is evil but don’t give him a combover

 

[Deleted member]

Ugh, great, Ganondorf debates
You know, the swords actually really help kill the whole Black Shadow thing as now people can't suggest him taking Dorf's moveset lol

999 how can i help you?

You think that's bad?
I don't have screenshots... Sadly... But I used to argue that the Duck Hunt leak was fake becaue there was no way in my head at the time that Sakurai would choose a character like that. I don't know why I thought that Sakurai wouldn't do that, when we already got
I also didn't really know who Geno was at the time nor did I care for him, and thought K. Rool being in Smash was such a weird concept while simultaneously being a huge supporter of Ridley at the time.
I've changed into an entirely different person from the Smash 4 Speculation era to the 2nd year Smash 4 has been out.
I'm completely disconnected with myself from then and I can't relate to that me from then. I'm not joking when I say I literally feel like an entirely different person/being from the me from half a decade back.

And I think that's probably for the best seeing the type of person I was back then.

Did I mention I was one of those fools who believed the "Lucario stole Mewtwo's slot in Brawl" ideology? Thank Taro I've changed.

That's because I have no way of taking screenshots out of the leaks group. Probably for the better

Wait what?

You're younger than me?

Huh, I always thought you were older.

How old are you, old man?

 

[TheYungLink]

"Giving Ganondorf's current moveset to Black Shadow while giving him a revamped one that's more iconic to Ganondorf as a character" is a wish I abandoned long ago. It's clear Sakurai doesn't care enough about F-Zero's cast to add another playable character anyway, least of all a villain few people recognize.

All I want is another Ganondorf based either on the 2D games or the one from Wind Waker (actually I wanted one based on Ocarina of Time, but then Ultimate used that design while keeping the moveset and adding a sword, oh well...). The former can be a heavyweight with a long distance teleport and very slow movement otherwise, while the latter could be our first dual-wielding sword fighter (Pit uses dual knives rather than full on swords).

We have multiple Links and Zeldas, so why not another Ganondorf, especially since many of us don't think Ganondorf's current moveset reflects him properly despite being really fun to play? We don't have to get rid of the current Ganondorf to do this, which is what I used to believe. Too many people are attached to Gabondorf's current moveset and giving it to someone else, even if I think that someone else would make much more sense, just wouldn't be right to them.

Besides Skull Kid and Midna who are both deconfirmed, I think a new take on Ganondorf is the single biggest character request for a new Zelda fighter. But it's hard to be vocal about and rally around it, because what do you even do? On the Fighter Ballot in the Smash 4 days, were we supposed to write "A version of Ganondorf with a new moveset"? That's too clunky. And on Smashboards people don't make character support threads for either Ganon or a hypothetical new Ganondorf, they just discuss it as a talking point instead. As a result, it's hard to numerically gauge just how many people are interested in this concept, but I'd wager it's a LOT of people.

A new Ganondorf / Ganon is my single biggest wish for a new Smash character besides Paper Mario. Funny how both are alternate versions of characters we already have, and neither are very likely at this point.

 

[Bee Card]

OoT Ganondorf is the best Ganondorf. End of debate.

 

[Impa4Smash]

OoT Ganondorf is the best Ganondorf. End of debate.

Wind. Waker.

 

[vaanrose]

Wind. Waker.

OoT but with TP's nose.

 

[NintendoKnight]

"Giving Ganondorf's current moveset to Black Shadow while giving him a revamped one that's more iconic to Ganondorf as a character" is a wish I abandoned long ago. It's clear Sakurai doesn't care enough about F-Zero's cast to add another playable character anyway, least of all a villain few people recognize.

All I want is another Ganondorf based either on the 2D games or the one from Wind Waker (actually I wanted one based on Ocarina of Time, but then Ultimate used that design while keeping the moveset and adding a sword, oh well...). The former can be a heavyweight with a long distance teleport and very slow movement otherwise, while the latter could be our first dual-wielding sword fighter (Pit uses dual knives rather than full on swords).

We have multiple Links and Zeldas, so why not another Ganondorf, especially since many of us don't think Ganondorf's current moveset reflects him properly despite being really fun to play? We don't have to get rid of the current Ganondorf to do this, which is what I used to believe. Too many people are attached to Gabondorf's current moveset and giving it to someone else, even if I think that someone else would make much more sense, just wouldn't be right to them.

Besides Skull Kid and Midna who are both deconfirmed, I think a new take on Ganondorf is the single biggest character request for a new Zelda fighter. But it's hard to be vocal about and rally around it, because what do you even do? On the Fighter Ballot in the Smash 4 days, were we supposed to write "A version of Ganondorf with a new moveset"? That's too clunky. And on Smashboards people don't make character support threads for either Ganon or a hypothetical new Ganondorf, they just discuss it as a talking point instead. As a result, it's hard to numerically gauge just how many people are interested in this concept, but I'd wager it's a LOT of people.

A new Ganondorf / Ganon is my single biggest wish for a new Smash character besides Paper Mario. Funny how both are alternate versions of characters we already have, and neither are very likely at this point.

I'd be totally OK with a Pig Canon getting in using moves he's actually known for using like the teleporting, fire bats, and trident. I'd probably play him a lot.

Wind. Waker.

Agreed.

OoT but with TP's nose.

...Isn't that what WW Ganondorf is?

 

[Blargg888]

Ah no, nevermind. I take it back. I guess I didn't Prepare Myself enough to see that




They're definitely fine, but they could be completely unique

Oh, they could, sure.

And honestly? That's probably be pretty cool.

But it's not necessary, that's the thing about it.

I like that Doc is being differentiated from Mario, but I don't think he needs to be a completely different character. Same with Falco and Pichu.

Admittedly YL, Dorf, and Roy have more potential to be unique, but again, it's not necessary in the end.

...
...
...

I'll confess though.
I love the way Roy plays in Brawl-. And if Smash Roy was that Roy? Yeah, I'd be happy.

So I do understand how that feels.

 

[Bee Card]

Wind. Waker.

He's the second one

 

[NineS]

OoT but with TP's nose.

I possess a counterargument.
Best Ganon:

Oh, they could, sure.

And honestly? That's probably be pretty cool.

But it's not necessary, that's the thing about it.

I like that Doc is being differentiated from Mario, but I don't think he needs to be a completely different character. Same with Falco and Pichu.

Admittedly YL, Dorf, and Roy have more potential to be unique, but again, it's not necessary in the end.

...
...
...

I'll confess though.
I love the way Roy plays in Brawl-. And if Smash Roy was that Roy? Yeah, I'd be happy.

So I do understand how that feels.

It took me a moment to register your Roy joke. Understandable.
I know a lot of people who loved Bayonetta in Brawl.

 

[osby]

OoT but with TP's nose.

Brawl Ganondorf. Change my mind if you care enough to try, which I can't see a reason for

 

[Blargg888]

Ugh, great, Ganondorf debates
You know, the swords actually really help kill the whole Black Shadow thing as now people can't suggest him taking Dorf's moveset lol

That's because I have no way of taking screenshots out of the leaks group. Probably for the better

How old are you, old man?

19.

Don't go actin' all smug, you'll be here soon.

It took me a moment to register your Roy joke. Understandable.
I know a lot of people who loved Bayonetta in Brawl.

...

It uh... It wasn't...

Huh. Well I suppose I could have worded that better.

This should explain what I meant:

Brawl Minus' Roy is pretty fun. If this Roy was in Official Smash, I'd be pretty happy.

 

[Deleted member]

All Ganondorf are valid.

19.

Don't go actin' all smug, you'll be here soon.


...

It uh... It wasn't...

Huh. Well I suppose I could have worded that better.

This should explain what I meant:

Brawl Minus' Roy is pretty fun. If this Roy was in Official Smash, I'd be pretty happy.

I am 19 you silly doof

 

[Knight Dude]

I think one of Richter's colors is a reference to Julius Belmont. That's pretty cool.

 

[Blargg888]

All Ganondorf are valid.

I am 19 you silly doof

Huh, sooner than I thought.

Your previous post implied that you were 13 in 2014. Since I was 15 in 2014, that'd make you 2 years younger.

But I guess I misread it or something.

Still, sometimes people's real ages on this site can be surprising.

oops

 

[osby]

I'm going to be 21 tomorrow -_- Somehow I feel old.

 

[Zinith]

Huh, sooner than I thought.

Your previous post implied that you were 13 in 2014. Since I was 15 in 2014, that'd make you 2 years younger.

But I guess I misread it or something.

Still, sometimes people's real ages on this site can be surprising.

oops

If I didn't say I was 27 on my profile, how old would you think I am all things considered?

 

[ZephyrZ]

I've always liked the explanation/headcannon that the reason Ganondorf fights mostly with his fist in Smash Brothers is because he's not taking the fight all that seriously and isn't giving it his all. He is the king of disrespect after all and has a history of underestimating his arch nemesis.

This "theory" also extends to Palutena who clearly isn't taking the fight seriously herself, as indicated by her obnoxious laughing, and possibly Mewtwo as well, who doesn't seem to want to put any actual physical effort into the fighting.

Of course the Smash power scale is all messed up and none of this explains why heckin Isabelle could take them out, but it is a fun explanation for Ganondorf not throwing everything he's got at the situation.

 

[Deleted member]

Huh, sooner than I thought.

Your previous post implied that you were 13 in 2014. Since I was 15 in 2014, that'd make you 2 years younger.

But I guess I misread it or something.

Still, sometimes people's real ages on this site can be surprising.

oops

No, sorry, it's me who can't do the math, yeah, I was actually 14 lol

 

[osby]

If I didn't say I was 27 on my profile, how old would you think I am all things considered?

25? You sound like a guy in his 20s either way.

 

[Zinith]

25? You sound like a guy in his 20s either way.

With MY signature?!!!

*insert J. Jonah Jameson laugh*

 

[osby]

With MY signature?!!!

*insert J. Jonah Jameson laugh*

I mean, you have a signature of a teenager but you talk (write?) more mature than that. But not too mature.

 

[Blargg888]

If I didn't say I was 27 on my profile, how old would you think I am all things considered?

Before you told me, I thought you were close to my age.

But in reality, the gap between you and I is the same as the gap between Brawl and Ultimate.

 

[hazza5557]

With MY signature?!!!

*insert J. Jonah Jameson laugh*

I thought you were about 17

 

[Zinith]

Before you told me, I thought you were close to my age.

But in reality, the gap between you and I is the same as the gap between Brawl and Ultimate.

I thought you were about 17

That realization where you expect a child to grow out of a character obsession only to realize they're almost 30

Spoiler

 

[Iridium]

Surprised I don't remember seeing this victory animation.