Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PLATINUM7]

Yeah but Dixie is just Girl Diddy.

You know, just like the way Rosalina is just Space Peach and Ike is just Muscular Marth, amirite?

The amount of people who said Rosalina would be a Peach clone was insane. I never knew Rosalina had Peach's SMB2 abilities.

Similar and crazier arguments to exclude characters have been said. Like people saying Ryu would be a Mario clone.
Hadouken= Fireball
Shoryuken= Super Jump Punch
Tatsumaki= Mario Tornado
And he and Mario would fill a similar niche.

The Koopalings themselves wouldn't receive any palette swaps; only Bowser Jr. would receive them, since he is the default palette.

I think a good thing would be to give Bowser Jr. and each Koopaling an alternate colouring. Then if 2 people want to both Jr. or the same Koopaling, they can be. You also keep the number of alts down to 16.

 

[Danpal65]

Keep in mind Sonic was a late minute addition to Brawl and probably took a LOT of the attention away from Sakurai's original plans. The push to get in Sonic was real and he definitely hampered some roster plans with how late in the mix he was thrown in I'd wager.

Pretty sure that was the reason why Mewtwo did not make it into Brawl as well.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm glad a lot of the users on this board are not Masahiro Sakurai because a lot of us simply can not think out of the box and create things like that man can.

It amuses me that people think the man who took a white mannequin from a fitness series and gave it a moveset would have trouble giving a character in 19 video games and is the female lead of a franchise an original moveset.

Like wut.

 

[Krysco]

Krysco the slow here again, responding to the discussion from where I'm currently on catch up: page 737 and the pages before that. Discussion at that time was about K. Rool a great deal and part of that discussion was his moveset.

I'd just like to chime in on that and mention that Smash does have some characters with rather bland movesets in my opinion. Namely Duck Hunt. The specials are unique, sure and the smash attacks are all the third part of the 'trio' being the NES Zapper shooter but every aerial save for nair, every tilt, the dash attack and the rapid jab are all just pecks from the duck. Nair is the dog spinning, jabs 1 through 3 are the dog paw swiping, kicking and headbutting respectively and I personally don't care enough to mention the 2 get up attacks, the trip attack and the ledge attack since those require more specific situations to even be performed and they aren't inspired by anything for most of the cast (Link is an excellent exception since I believe his ledge attack is based on the shield stab).

Marth has this issue too to a lesser extent though that's moreso the fault of his sword than anything else. The Falchion doesn't do anything crazy like open up or shoot beams it doesn't have a duration amount forcing a discard it can't form into another type of weapon and Marth lacks other tools to go along with his swordplay . The tipper mechanic is the one saving grace from Marth just being some dude who swings a sword a lot...and go figure that that's exactly what Lucina ended up being.

Little Mac would be another one but there's not much else to expect from a boxer to be fair. Plus he has things like super armor on smashes and his neutral special and his whole 'amazing ground game, **** air game' thing going for him.

Lastly, to refer to a specific comment (though I won't quote it since I catch up on this thread on my phone and reply to it on my computer) someone mentioned that the moveset ideas that were being thrown around for K. Rool was just a 'kitchen sink' moveset and that's not a bad thing, is it? Mario himself has one with things like jab, bthrow, dtilt and dash attack I believe all being from SM64, his dair which was previously his down special being based on the spin jump from SMW which his side special is also from, his fsmash is a Smash original I believe, first appearing in Melee in 2001 but he got a very similar ability in M&L Superstar Saga, I've seen mention that moves like utilt and fair where his fist gets enlarged is based on his punching attacks from SMRPG, his neutral special is based on the Fire Flower Fireballs, his up special is based on him jumping to hit blocks and get coins and his down special from Brawl onwards is F.L.U.D.D. from Sunshine. Seems to me like they threw a bunch of separate abilities together to make Mario's moveset so I don't see why the same can't be done for K. Rool.

 

[Danpal65]

I'm glad a lot of the users on this board are not Masahiro Sakurai because a lot of us simply can not think out of the box and create things like that man can.

It amuses me that people think the man who took a white mannequin from a fitness series and gave it a moveset would have trouble giving a character in 19 video games and is the female lead of a franchise an original moveset.

Like wut.

None of us can comprehend the true genius that is Sakurai that's for sure.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think a good thing would be to give Bowser Jr. and each Koopaling an alternate colouring. Then if 2 people want to both Jr. or the same Koopaling, they can be. You also keep the number of alts down to 16.

Not everyone is fond of the Koopalings though, which is why I made the statement that Bowser Jr. should've received seven additional recolors of himself, as shown on the image below.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Friendly reminder the only reason the whole "BUT THEY'D BE A CLONE" argument exists is because the individual screeching it has no concept of creativity

 

[PLATINUM7]

Not everyone is fond of the Koopalings though, which is why I made the statement that Bowser Jr. should've received seven additional recolors of himself, as shown on the image below.

View attachment 140670

Not everyone is fond of Jr. either.

 

[RosiePeaches]

We have no reason to know why production on Dixie was stopped.

He probably had most of the work done on Diddy Kong and simply didn't want to hold the game back any further, but released that Donkey Kong was in need of another representative.

The fact that he even was including her WITH Diddy at any point proves he knows just how important Dixie Kong is to the Donkey Kong franchise.

EDIT: Keep in mind Sonic was a late minute addition to Brawl and probably took a LOT of the attention away from Sakurai's original plans. The push to get in Sonic was real and he definitely hampered some roster plans with how late in the mix he was thrown in I'd wager.

They did not add her in Smash 4 either. A lot of polls often put her at the lower end of the wanted newcomer spectrum.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

None of us can comprehend the true genius that is Sakurai that's for sure.

It puzzles me.

Wii Fit Trainer, Game & Watch, R.O.B.

This man is constantly picking things that have no business having good moveset potential and he just knocks it out of the park at all times.

Yet people legit think he's going to have trouble giving some characters who have tons of potential any sort of moveset so they scream ''Clone! Clone-y clone clone."

I'd like to note that a majority of the clones and semi-clones in the series all come from franchises that lend themselves to it (Star Fox for example.) or in the case of characters like Luigi are legit Player 2 in their series.

And at worse Lucina, Dr. Mario, Roy, and Dark Pit are cases of a ''Popular character" who is just an extra desert. Even Sakurai has acknowledged that with Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit.

 

[Danpal65]

It puzzles me.

Wii Fit Trainer, Game & Watch, R.O.B.

This man is constantly pick things that have no business having good moveset potential and he just knocks it out of the park at all times.

Yet people legit think he's going to have trouble giving some characters who have tons of potential any sort of moveset so they scream ''Clone! Clone-y clone clone."

I'd like to note that a majority of the clones and semi-clones in the series all come from franchises that lend themselves to it (Star Fox for example.) or simple well in the case of characters like Luigi are legit Player 2 in their series.

And at worse Lucina, Dr. Mario, Roy, and Dark Pit are cases of a ''Popular character" who is just an extra desert. Even Sakurai has acknowledged that with Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit.

He is certainly very unique in the best of ways.

You are right about clones as well. There has never been an instant where a character was inluded as a clone because he could not think of a moveset. It has always been because they were an end of development addition purely for the fans, which makes the complaining about them even more disappointing.

I would much rather be able to play as Lucina and have her face off against Bowser than for her to either not be in the game, or be represented by a colour swap for Marth (although their colours are the same, so, bad example I guess).

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Ganondorf is honestly the only clone or semi-clone in Smash I can think of that you could majorly rehaul and even he is someone Sakurai added because of the similar body frame to Captain Falcon and his popularity and relevance to his series.

And then the only reason he's admitted to not changing Ganondorf is that he doesn't want his current players to lose their playstyle.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They did not add her in Smash 4 either. A lot of polls often put her at the lower end of the wanted newcomer spectrum.

Meanwhile the same happened with Bayonetta and well...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Not everyone is fond of Jr. either.

Sadly, you can't make everyone happy, and since Bowser Jr. is the default palette, he'd be the one gifted with the recolors.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Fan polls are such a strange way to measure a character's popularity.

 

[RosiePeaches]

Meanwhile the same happened with Bayonetta and well...

I mean the ones with the larger sample sizes. These ones had Bayonetta much higher.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Character: *Can anatomically pull off the same moves as a character in Smash*
Smash fanbase: "Alt at best"

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Fan polls are such a strange way to measure a character's popularity.

What are you talking about, Smash fan polls are totally a reliable way of gauging popularity!

 

[Tree Gelbman]

What are you talking about, Smash fan polls are totally a reliable way of gauging popularity!

Oh yes, silly me. We have the ''rules".

You know me regular rule book burner. Get handed one and I just light it right on fire.

 

[Ura]

Meanwhile the same happened with Bayonetta and well...

Bayo was Top 10 in most fan polls. Especially the DLC ones.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Oh yes, silly me. We have the ''rules".

You know me regular rule book burner. Get handed one and I just light it right on fire.

Smash rule number 1: if you have an unpopular opinion or idea, you're objectively wrong and you should leave the forums!

 

[Ura]

Cause they're hungry like the wolf my friend.

Because we have basically nothing else to talk about at this point.

Ahh.

Well then I feel your pain lol.

 

[Pakky]

Something messy - Inklings

Something flat - Paper mario/Labo guy ?

Something hairy - Dixie Kong (Attacks with hair and is hairy) or Twintelle (Also uses hair to attack)

Something ghostly - King Boo/ E. Gadd (Ghost hunter and a ghost)

Something skeletal - Ridley (He's skin and bones)

Something sneaky - Impa (Ninja)

Something smelly - someone with a big nose or who smells bad. Waluigi kind of fits Rayman does too since his face is a nose. Tingle?

Something frosty - Ice Climbers (Brrrr)

Something classic - King K Rool?/ Cranky Kong/ Crash? (Classic villain, Classic character being that he is DK

Something old - Cranky Kong?

Something in unison - Rhythm Heaven (Chorus Kids)/ Wonder Red/ Rex and Pyra?

Something foreign - Rayman/ Shovel Knight/ Shantae/ Crash?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Something skeletal just doesn't fit Ridley imo, I know he's thin, but there are many more accurate ways of vaguely describing him. Sans was my first thought, but I think something foreign is the one 3rd party character on there as it's lumped on the end of it, so maybe Skull Kid?

 

[Pakky]

Something skeletal just doesn't fit Ridley imo, I know he's thin

Definition of 'Skeletal' cuz i was curious if it meant that that someone was a skeleton or just malnourished.


skel·e·tal
ˈskelədl/
adjective

1. relating to or functioning as a skeleton.
   "the skeletal remains of aquatic organisms"
   • very thin; emaciated.

 

[DJ3DS]

Here's an idea that doesn't seem to be done every other page - what additions would you like to see in the game in terms of modes, options etc? A good new mode can make things as fresh as a new character.

Here's one to start - I'd like to see multicharacter battles. That is, before the game starts you choose multiple characters, and when you lose your stock you move onto the next.

Its a simple thing and definitely suggested before but I think it would be a very popular addition to every corner of the fanbase. You could practically have full on Pokémon battles if you chose 6 Pokémon characters in your team and that sort of thing is really cool.

Another thing I would like to see added is a random character toggle, so that I can disable certain characters appearing whenever I pick random.

 

[Pakky]

Here's one to start - I'd like to see multicharacter battles. That is, before the game starts you choose multiple characters, and when you lose your stock you move onto the next.

Its a simple thing and definitely suggested before but I think it would be a very popular addition to every corner of the fanbase. You could practically have full on Pokémon battles if you chose 6 Pokémon characters in your team and that sort of thing is really cool.

Another thing I would like to see added is a random character toggle, so that I can disable certain characters appearing whenever I pick random.

Kind of like a theme match?

Ooooo what if each stock was a character related to the the theme?


So you could have pokemon battles

Kirby fights ect?

If multiple magic users get into the game that's another theme!

 

[Antimatter042]

I think something foreign has to apply to either a Western 3rd Party or a Rare creation. Something in unison may be Rex and Pyra, because affinity between the two is a pretty huge deal in XC2 and their likely gimmick if they get in. Something ghostly is probably either Decidueye or Mimikyu. Honestly since this leak is so obviously fake I can't be bothered trying to think what everything else is meant to be.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Definition of 'Skeletal' cuz i was curious if it meant that that someone was a skeleton or just malnourished.


skel·e·tal
ˈskelədl/
adjective

1. relating to or functioning as a skeleton.
   "the skeletal remains of aquatic organisms"
   • very thin; emaciated.

Yeah, I do get it, but I just think from a leaker's point of view that really wouldn't be the first word I'd choose to describe him.

Here's an idea that doesn't seem to be done every other page - what additions would you like to see in the game in terms of modes, options etc? A good new mode can make things as fresh as a new character.

Here's one to start - I'd like to see multicharacter battles. That is, before the game starts you choose multiple characters, and when you lose your stock you move onto the next.

Its a simple thing and definitely suggested before but I think it would be a very popular addition to every corner of the fanbase. You could practically have full on Pokémon battles if you chose 6 Pokémon characters in your team and that sort of thing is really cool.

Another thing I would like to see added is a random character toggle, so that I can disable certain characters appearing whenever I pick random.

Project M had a tag team battle mode which worked very well, and I think there's a decent chance we'll see it as it was experimented with in Smash Tour.

The random toggle I'd also love, but instead of having it in the menu like with the random stage toggle I'd probably make it so you can edit it for each name/profile, so that when you play with friends you can all choose your own preferences.

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

Thought I'd give this a go, but for the ones I couldn't think of anything easily, I picked something left field.



Something messy - Inklings

Something flat - Steve

Something hairy - Shantae

Something ghostly – Decidueye or Plasma Wraith


Something skeletal – Dry Bones (Even though I really want Ridley I don't see how he's skeletal, oh but maybe it's crocomire)


Something sneaky – Impa or Nameless Ninja (Mark of the Ninja)

Something smelly – The boy and his dog. (Secret of Evermore.) Dog had a smell mechanic.

Something frosty - Neo-Ridley

Something classic - Firebrand

Something old - Cranky Kong

Something in unison - Chorus Kids/Rex & Pyra/Lost Vikings Trio

Something foreign - Rayman

 

[IronTed]

Definition of 'Skeletal' cuz i was curious if it meant that that someone was a skeleton or just malnourished.


skel·e·tal
ˈskelədl/
adjective

1. relating to or functioning as a skeleton.
   "the skeletal remains of aquatic organisms"
   • very thin; emaciated.

That's true, but let's be honest, this leak is likely fake anyway. There's no need to try to fit Ridley into this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I hope a lot of Pokémon need more hats. I like Pika and Jiggs hats I just want to see Zard getting done hats or other gear in him like the other two get, if he is in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

Did someone say something... "skeletal leak"?
That leak is probably not going to be about Sans or Papyrus in smash, maybe more Undertale for Switch information.

I really want Smash news though.

Also just from reading this, I think it is very unlikely we are getting Melee HD.
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/08/10/sakuraimelee/

Waluigi>All

Let us have a true dancer in Smash.

That is one of the most beautiful dancing moves I have ever seen. I am absolutely stunned.

Sorry, but Waluigi's dance moves are weak compared to Poppi QTπ.

This is one of the most beautiful dancing moves I have seen as well. I am keeping this gif. Extremely beautiful.

...

The kids at school call me stubby...

*sob*

*Pats on back*
"It is going to be just fine..."

But Lucina's already in the game

 

[CroonerMike]

I kind of want Magnus from Kid Icarus alongside Hades in Smash Bros Switch.

 

[DJ3DS]

Kind of like a theme match?

Ooooo what if each stock was a character related to the the theme?


So you could have pokemon battles

Kirby fights ect?

If multiple magic users get into the game that's another theme!

Well it doesn't necessarily have to be a theme. You could set it to 5 stock and choose any 5 characters, one for each stock.

I think competitively it would be a hit because it's fresh, forces people to play a variety of characters and allows for some interesting CP scenarios, but it would be just as popular casually for the opportunity to have theme matches - for example, a 2 stock match where one person takes Mario/Luigi and the other Bowser/Bowser Jr.

Project M had a tag team battle mode which worked very well, and I think there's a decent chance we'll see it as it was experimented with in Smash Tour.

The random toggle I'd also love, but instead of having it in the menu like with the random stage toggle I'd probably make it so you can edit it for each name/profile, so that when you play with friends you can all choose your own preferences.

Personalising it to each name is definitely the best way of implementing it, and one which I hadn't thought of!

 

[Deleted member]

I personally am kinda doubting the leak more over time, because Isabelle does not fit any of the vague categories and seeing what the newcomers people are guessing frequently..

"Leak is fake because no Isabelle"

Yeah, can we not have that sort of mindset? Fake or not has nothing to do with the Shih Tzu people put too much stock into.

 

[Opossum]

"Leak is fake because no Isabelle"

Yeah, can we not have that sort of mindset? Fake or not has nothing to do with the Shih Tzu people put too much stock into.

I agree with the sentiment (that mindset is how the Tower of Smash "leak" got as big as it did, no pun intended), but personally I think people in general don't put enough stock into Isabelle.

Honestly I think she's the most obvious newcomer now that Inklings are confirmed and ARMS may or may not have happened too late.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I knew you were going to say that Golden, but I guess it is best to not put stock into anything and disprove leaks based on character exclusions.

 

[Pakky]

Honestly I think she's the most obvious newcomer now that Inklings are confirmed

Why? Honestly, I don't get it I like her and all but I'm not sure I get why she's more important than Tom Nook or Reseti.

 

[Staarih]

I just arrived from a 10 day visit to Japan and can confirm that something Pokémon, Splatoon and/or Kirby can be found in, like, every corner lol. Mimikyu-merch was everywhere as expected, but I was a bit surprised to see the amount of Marx-related merch when it comes to Kirby.

Oh, and some trains/railways had Isabelle (Animal Crossing) going through safety instructions on the screens. I found that adorable.