Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[A.G.L.]

The problem really lies with every Square rep that we can think of ends up always having a huge problem.

Sora? Kingdom Hearts 3 and other legality issues NonSpecificGuy brought up.
2B? Not on a Nintendo console.
Crono? "Square: What's Chrono?"
Dragon Quest rep? Literally Sugiyama.
Agnes/Bravely rep? Current status and priority within Square's eyes.
Octopath rep? Too new.
Neku? Poor reception of the franchise in Japan and not much of a priority to even Square.

Geno has the upper hand with all of these and is the only one with really any "Smash history". It'd be the most "feasible and realistic" to negotiate with, especially with, again, the whole Mario thing. We could use the whole "relevancy" argument, but when we have in the mix, I don't think that'd be the case either.

Its not a problem of relevancy to Nintendo its to Square. Square doesn't work like that, all their recent cross promotions have been with characters that are still relative and represent the company. Had it been any other company I could see it, but with Square they are very strict when it comes to lending out things to other companies. I mean we only have two songs in the Midgar stage so far, and one of them isn't even one winged angel, that alone speaks volumes. I do not see Square pushing for a character they cannot cross promote off of. The fact that Square has not cared for the character in years and Geno has not appeared in any of their own games speaks for itself. I just don't see it, they are more likely to try to make a deal with the composer of DQ or bargain with Disney and Nintendo.

 

[StrawHatX]

Boy, this is some STRONG doublespeak.

Yeah.... I know Geno is the fan favorite in the Smash community but I just don’t see why Square or Nintendo would want to go with him over many other choices. He’s a cool character, but he’s from a very old game that most aren’t familiar with and I don’t see the two companies doing anything more with.

 

[Potato_]

Im honestly kind of confused with the break comments for Sakurai sometimes. Like are people talking about a paid vacation or something? Otherwise he can't really just stop working as this is his job and if he isn't working on Smash then he will likely be working on a different project.

Sounds like he works really, REALLY long hours. That famous Japanese work ethic and all. I mean to be frank he looked tired as hell last direct.

I do think the people that tell Sakurai to take a break sometimes forget that he WANTS to work on this stuff. It's definitely not healthy, but he keeps coming back. Eventually however he won't be able to keep up this workload, and he'll be forced to take it easier on the projects he works on.

From what it sounds like sometimes it's as if people think Sakurai is working on Smash from the goodness of his heart, forgetting the fact that he probably gets paid a hefty sum for his work on Smash. That's not to discredit any of his work obviously as he and his team make something insane, but they aren't doing it just for fun.

 

[Double K]

Super Mario RPG had a Wii and Wii U virtual console release and was featured on the SNES Mini and before that the Geno Mii Costume.
Chrono Trigger had a Wii VC release and a butchered PC port.

You're forgetting something

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I would love Lloyd Irving but I have this feeling if Namco gets a rep AND if Nintendo goes with the "Promotional" route, I could see Yuri Lowelll from Tales of Vesperia being in instead of Lloyd.

With the Tales of Vesperia Definitive Edition coming next year, it could happen....Then again, this would have to be the first DLC character to be announced since the game is coming out in January. That way it would give them time to promote the game.

Of course now this seems unlikely.

There was an interview where the interviewer asked Sakurai about other possible Tales reps, and he acted confused and asked for examples, then after the interviewer brought up some other characters like the one from the original Tales game, he laughed and said “no, it would have to be Lloyd”.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Let's add Ramza as the Square rep.

He can throw pebbles.

That?

That trumps any sort of fan want or iconic level.

Let me chuck a pebble at the Mario Brothers' stupid noses and I'm all good.

 

[Starbound]

Still think Noctis makes the most sense as a SE character if we're looking at this in terms of promotional DLC.

 

[Double K]

Let's add Ramza as the Square rep.

He can throw pebbles.

That?

That trumps any sort of fan want or iconic level.

Let me chuck a pebble at the Mario Brothers' stupid noses and I'm all good.

Real talk, that'd be dope. Ramza a baller.

And it'd be like having Katalina too since both are Hideo Minaba!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I don't know why but my gut is still telling me the SE Disney rep will be Sora in response to Kingdom Hearts III.

 

[Idon]

Super Mario RPG had a Wii and Wii U virtual console release and was featured on the SNES Mini and before that the Geno Mii Costume.
Chrono Trigger had a Wii VC release and a butchered PC port.

A butchered PC Port they actually took the time to patch, with 5 of them reaching well into August.
That's pretty notable I'd say.

 

[AugustusB]

There was an interview where the interviewer asked Sakurai about other possible Tales reps, and he acted confused and asked for examples, then after the interviewer brought up some other characters like the one from the original Tales game, he laughed and said “no, it would have to be Lloyd”.

I remember that interview. It gives me hope for Lloyd, but Nintendo being the big choosers for DLC with Sakurai's grace...IDK

I'd be happy with either.

 

[osby]

This ^^^

Our fan rules need to be destroyed, because man speculation is dragging with the "Well durr there will be a FE Rep for DLC!"

Eh, I wouldn't mind a character from Three Houses but I feel like a lot of people are using hypothetical Fire Emblem DLC just to complain about nothing.

 

[Roberk]

Doubt it. The main character is Byleth, not Edelgard. And only reason Sakurai even accepted to put Corrin in was because they were selected by the development team and can do unique stuff.

People need to stop with "new FE game will get a rep, it's a rule!" There is no guarantee and it doesn't really make sense for this time.

>People like the Youtube/Twitter insiders thinking that Nintendo will significantly promote Three Houses itself.

Roy and Corrin were ultimately Sakurai's choice to put into the game in the end and Three Houses has no current marketing campaign. I'm expecting a trailer in a General Direct (maybe a game specific Direct) and a few Twitter posts at best for the game, I doubt that it's a prime pick for Smash by Nintendo.

 

[Idon]

Let's add Ramza as the Square rep.

He can throw pebbles.

That?

That trumps any sort of fan want or iconic level.

Let me chuck a pebble at the Mario Brothers' stupid noses and I'm all good.

Also he shouts to buff himself up and his teammates, which is hilarious.
Just shove his entire Dissidia moveset in there too while you're at it.

Real talk, Ramza 100% cooler tactician than Robin.

YA DON'T SEE ROBIN DOIN THIS KINDA ****.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I don't know why but my gut is still telling me the SE Disney rep will be Sora in response to Kingdom Hearts III.

It probably is Sora, Spawn Wave is saying it’s Sora and he has a good track record, and Imran always made it sound like it would be Sora. Also he’d obviously garner the most sales and increase consumer confidence in the fighters pass.

 

[KingofKoopas]

I don't know why but my gut is still telling me the SE Disney rep will be Sora in response to Kingdom Hearts III.

I would safely plant my flag there too. It would just be too perfect.. And literally all my friends would flip out and buy Switches... Switchs
Switchii?

 

[osby]

>People like the Youtube/Twitter insiders thinking that Nintendo will significantly promote Three Houses itself.
Roy and Corrin were ultimately Sakurai's choice to put into the game in the end and Three Houses has no current marketing campaign. I'm expecting a trailer in a General Direct (maybe a game specific Direct) and a few Twitter posts at best for the game, I doubt that it's a prime pick for Smash by Nintendo.

Eh, Roy was a part of an attempt to cram as many clones as possible to the game and Corrin was a request from the staff. Never saw Sakurai as a guy desperately trying to promote Fire Emblem, so considering Nintendo is also isn't that interested, I think no FE character via DLC is safe to say.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I don't know if this has already been posted (please delete my comment if it has), but here's a new Sakurai column:
https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...eroar-amiibo-creation-removing-trophies-more/

 

[Deleted member]

You're forgetting something

I legitimately forgot about this. While it's one more point to Chrono, they literally don't know what to do with the franchise at all. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't have that Chrono Break fanmade trailer or taking down stuff like Chrono Resurrection.

A butchered PC Port they actually took the time to patch, well into 2018 finishing at August.
That's pretty notable I'd say.

So we're just going to be a revisionist and forget that fans had to go and fix the game themselves before Square finally decided to do something then?

Its not a problem of relevancy to Nintendo its to Square. Square doesn't work like that, all their recent cross promotions have been with characters that are still relative and represent the company. Had it been any other company I could see it, but with Square they are very strict when it comes to lending out things to other companies. I mean we only have two songs in the Midgar stage so far, and one of them isn't even one winged angel, that alone speaks volumes. I do not see Square pushing for a character they cannot cross promote off of. The fact that Square has not cared for the character in years and Geno has not appeared in any of their own games speaks for itself. I just don't see it, they are more likely to try to make a deal with the composer of DQ or bargain with Disney and Nintendo.

I still think there's no way they're going to negotiate with Sugiyama. If the Indian reference in Game & Watch's moveset caused a stir, how much do you think them striking a deal with a nationalist AND a war denier? People are going to find out about that, no matter what, and we're gonna end up in that exact same situation as before, much worse, however.

I could've sworn someone else that or if it was also NonSpecificGuy said that Nintendo wouldn't want to do deals with Disney, or something to that end. Honestly, after that one post he made regarding the whole legalities surrounding Sora and the timing with KH3, it shot down my faith in Sora a lot.

 

[Will]

lol wtf is going on with my computer

 

[Will]

People need to stop with "new FE game will get a rep, it's a rule!" There is no guarantee and it doesn't really make sense for this time.

Isn't "it doesn't make sense so it won't be in the game" also a fan rule?

 

[Arcanir]

Super Mario RPG had a Wii and Wii U virtual console release and was featured on the SNES Mini and before that the Geno Mii Costume.
Chrono Trigger had a Wii VC release and a butchered PC port.

Chrono Trigger also had a DS remake that had a relocalization and additional content, a sequel (Chrono Cross), a Visual Novel (Radical Dreamers), and also had rereleases on the PlayStation network, iOS and Android.

Geno has his merits, but lets not erase everything attached to Crono to make him look better. SE actually tried to make a series out of Chrono Trigger, continue its story and put effort into its rereleases, SMRPG has not had that same luxury outside of cameos, so if you're going to call Crono a 'who?' then you have to extend the same criticism to Geno as well.

 

[Tako Tuesday]

This may have been mentioned already, but Seaskape from Splatoon is tonight's music track. I should also mention that it's not very good.

 

[A.G.L.]

Still think Noctis makes the most sense as a SE character if we're looking at this in terms of promotional DLC.

I don't know Sqaure would have already known when they chose the DLC's that they were already choosing him to appear in Tekken. I don't know if they would cross promote the same character in two fighting games. Its slightly possible as he had a brief cameo in Assassins Creed Origins before appearing in Tekken 7, but I still don't think it will be him.

 

[osby]

Isn't "it doesn't make sense so it won't be in the game" also a fan rule?

Not really. You can still make logical conclusions without turning them into rules.

 

[KingofKoopas]

In regards to Sora:

SquareEnix defaults to whatever Disney decides with the character
And Disney defaults to Nomura.

IT wouldnt be a matter of dealing with Disney in the end.. Just in giving them a share of the money.

 

[AugustusB]

So last I checked Spawn Wave did not out right say "Sora is the Square Rep"

But we did get a super vague response to a tweet. "Hey, is Sora the Square Rep?" To which he responds "Oh, would people like that?"

Has something changed recently or is this still the gist of it?

(I would like Sora, dont @ me)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I don't know why but my gut is still telling me the SE Disney rep will be Sora in response to Kingdom Hearts III.

Sora is in your gut telling you this

 

[PK-remling Fire]

I just got the special edition smash bros switch that I ordered from amazon.

It came in a grinch themed box...

 

[Idon]

So we're just going to be a revisionist and forget that fans had to go and fix the game themselves before Square finally decided to do something then?

No, we're going to go factual and acknowledge the fact that Squeenix got some guys to fix their game, when they easily could've left it to rot (as in the case of FF6's PC Port), especially considering those fan-patches already existed trying to salvage the game and that these patches wouldn't do much to repair the already mixed reviews.

That's a non-zero amount of effort and acknowledgement, and it certainly isn't less than that put into Geno.

 

[Kuraudo]

I don't know if this has already been posted (please delete my comment if it has), but here's a new Sakurai column:
https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...eroar-amiibo-creation-removing-trophies-more/

This was just pleasant.

I'm happy that Incineroar made the cut, and it's a great final tribute to the late Unshō Ishizuka. I'm a huge fan of his works, especially as older Joseph Joestar. There's so much more to find in this game, I can already feel it. Even my initial reluctance over the lessened hitstun/fear of less combos is diminishing.

 

[Will]

Not really. You can still make logical conclusions without turning them into rules.

Depends on what you mean by "logical conclusions", because your opinion of it not making sense is totally oblivious to another person who thinks that the consistent chain of FE advertising makes it, y'know, make sense.

 

[PsySmasher]

Still think Noctis makes the most sense as a SE character if we're looking at this in terms of promotional DLC.

What would be left to promote?
Final Fantasy XV is done come early 2019 (unfortunately) with one more DLC, so there really isn't much left of it.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrono Trigger also had a DS remake that had a relocalization and additional content, a sequel (Chrono Cross), a Visual Novel (Radical Dreamers), and also had rereleases on the PlayStation network, iOS and Android.

Geno has his merits, but lets not erase everything attached to Crono to make him look better. SE actually tried to make a series out of Chrono Trigger, continue its story and put effort into its rereleases, SMRPG has not had that same luxury outside of cameos, so if you're going to call Crono a 'who?' then you have to extend the same criticism to Geno as well.

Now hold on, I thought universally Chrono Cross was treated as only just a "spiritual successor" and less of a sequel? Unless if it's a Xenoblade Chronicles X situation, people I've talked with about the game in the past always treated it like a different game.

 

[osby]

I don't know if this has already been posted (please delete my comment if it has), but here's a new Sakurai column:
https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...eroar-amiibo-creation-removing-trophies-more/

Spoiler

On Spirits Mode…

“Everything will become clearer when you actually start playing. I’ll put together a summary of the mode’s design after the game’s release.”

On the “Biggest, Baddest, Enemy”…

“If the opportunity presents itself I’d like to write about the game’s ‘Adventure Mode’ bit by bit. That being said, as of right now it’s finished.”

You can't just say these and leave us hanging, come on! Now I'm even more curious.

Depends on what you mean by "logical conclusions", because your opinion of it not making sense is totally oblivious to another person who thinks that the consistent chain of FE advertising makes it, y'know, make sense.

Correction, then: We'll likely get a Fire Emblem character as DLC, but I don't think we will until I see it.

 

[Deleted member]

All this bickering about the Square rep. Imagine if it ends up being Noctis lol.

 

[A.G.L.]

I legitimately forgot about this. While it's one more point to Chrono, they literally don't know what to do with the franchise at all. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't have that Chrono Break fanmade trailer or taking down stuff like Chrono Resurrection.



So we're just going to be a revisionist and forget that fans had to go and fix the game themselves before Square finally decided to do something then?



I still think there's no way they're going to negotiate with Sugiyama. If the Indian reference in Game & Watch's moveset caused a stir, how much do you think them striking a deal with a nationalist AND a war denier? People are going to find out about that, no matter what, and we're gonna end up in that exact same situation as before, much worse, however.

I could've sworn someone else that or if it was also NonSpecificGuy said that Nintendo wouldn't want to do deals with Disney, or something to that end. Honestly, after that one post he made regarding the whole legalities surrounding Sora and the timing with KH3, it shot down my faith in Sora a lot.

I doubt Nintendo would not be willing to a deal with Disney. Especially with the fact there was a remixed version of Mari Kart heard in EPCOT at the Wreck It Ralph 2 exhibit. Nintendo has been reaching out to many companies lately, Warner Brothers and Comcast. Its very likely they are also dealing with Disney on some sort of level, if nothing else with some sort of Bowser appearance in Wreck it Ralph 2. Also Disney and Nintendo are making a game show to promote the Nintendo Switch.

 

[vaanrose]

The main character is Byleth, not Edelgard.

Byleth is the Sakurai choice. Sakurai seems to care more about importance over popularity. He put Villager in when Tom Nook was the popular choice, for example. And they're clearly aware of Tom Nook's popularity, given his appearance in Isabelle's trailer.

Meanwhile, if Nintendo felt the need to step in and take over creative control of who is DLC, they won't have done so for artistic reasons, they'll have done so based on who they think will make them a profit. In that regard, Edelgard strikes me as the Nintendo choice, since she is definitely the most popular character of the pre-release cycle, and has been for long enough to affect the decision making.

And Fire Emblem isn't the only franchise I'd offer this line of thinking toward. Sakurai would pick Spring Man over anybody else, but I think Nintendo would push one of the more popular, more marketable side characters like Min Min and Twintelle.

 

[A.G.L.]

All this bickering about the Square rep. Imagine if it ends up being Noctis lol.

I would be ok with that as he is a very interesting character and could have a great move set.

 

[Roberk]

Also he shouts to buff himself up and his teammates, which is hilarious.
Just shove his entire Dissidia moveset in there too while you're at it.

Real talk, Ramza 100% cooler tactician than Robin.

YA DON'T SEE ROBIN DOIN THIS KINDA ****.

Must I pick up that pebble in your way?