Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[FlareHabanero]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is "roman cancels" exactly?

Roman Cancel is a recurring gameplay mechanic in the Guilty Gear series. At the cost of some of your meter, normal and special attacks can be interrupted mid animation. Being able to cancel these attacks opens up opportunities for possible mix ups.

 

[IsmaR]

I'll preface this by saying I still hate speculah now more than ever, particularly when the same cycles just repeat themselves over and over with nothing ever changing/being learned.

That said, this is just gonna get likes/quoted by random people missing the point anyway.

Here is a nice discussion topic.

What music remixes do you want in the next Smash?

A lot of games have new music potential...

Off the top of my head for the original 8 series/confirmed 3 we have thus far:

- RoboBrood Battle
- Divine Beast Vah Ruta Battle

- Acid Hues (Off the Hook)
- Battle! Wild Pokémon (Pokémon Black/White)
- The Strongest Knight in the Galaxy (Galacta Knight)
- Staff Roll/Credits (Metroid II: Return of Samus)
- Sector Omega (Star Fox Zero)
- Fear Factory
- Vs Boss (Yoshi's Island)
- Rainbow Road (it hurts me posting this but hey more Mario Kart is never bad)

And some hopeful music choices (even if they don't get anything new/playable characters or stages specifically for them):

- Press Garden Zone (preferably mixing elements of both Act 1 and 2)
- Unique Monster Battle Theme (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
(Arms) - Replay Mode

I could go on, but it already took me forever to reply to this on mobile.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Palutena's default Special Moves needs to be changed. I mean, a counter? Really?

This is kind of the key thing, Xenoablade has been established as a Franchise within Smash.

How likely do you personally think Rex is of getting the Greninja treatment in terms of having a Xenoblade slot reserved for him?

The Art Design and character design is one of the bigger criticisms of XB2. It's not surprising it would keep coming up when she's brought up.

I think part of the criticism, at least in terms of Smash, is that, for some people, Rex wouldn't seem or feel different enough from Shulk. At least that's what I'm guessing (I could be completely off-base).

 

[Baskerville]

Could be neat, but I wonder how said EX moves would be preformed. I mean, Ryu sorta, kinda has that with the traditional inputs enhancing his specials. Do you think this should be the case for guys like Mario and Samus?

Nah, Ryu's inputs are his thing so I'd rather not make that universal. So I think simply pressing A+B and a direction for your special would be a better choice.

 

[N3ON]

For gameplay modes, I know some people have mentioned something similar to the team battles in Tekken. Basically each stock would be a different character(let's say 4 max, unlike the 8 max in Tekken). I think that would be fun in such a hectic series.

They had something like this in Smash Tour, but seeing as everyone played it once and called it a day, giving it a dedicated mode would be a good idea I think.

I'm truly surprised that with its addition in Smash Tour, they didn't implement this elsewhere. Presumably it would've been easy. I'd really dig this mode, it'd be a nice change of pace. An alternate mode people would actually use.

And if they're smart, they could tie the "switching characters" concept into the branding of a "Switch Smash".

 

[True Blue Warrior]

And if they're smart, they could tie the "switching characters" concept into the branding of a "Switch Smash".

Now that would be a great idea.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

How likely do you personally think Rex is of getting the Greninja treatment in terms of having a Xenoblade slot reserved for him?


I think part of the criticism, at least in terms of Smash, is that, for some people, Rex wouldn't seem or feel different enough from Shulk. At least that's what I'm guessing (I could be completely off-base).

Maybe they'll go off the board and put in Elma and her gun-swords from X? That'd be quite different from Shulk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Knight Dude]

The Launcher part is really more of Smash being at least slightly incommensurable. You can already do one of sorts insofar as there are plenty of moves that knock the opponent up and easily allow for a follow up, but the pseudo-cinematic autocombos like you see in Marvel are an incoherent idea in Smash (and not even good for Marvel anyway). There are things that Smash could add, but they need to be things that don't conflict with the basic mechanics that make it not a normal fighting game.
More command-dash type moves would be great. I would unironically love Violent Ken being added just because he has a big aerial grab and a command dash.

Unrelatedly: Does anyone have an opinion on Dark Souls getting represented in this game? I know that newcomer Chosen Undead is a bit of a long shot, but I wouldn't be surprised by a Solaire assist trophy.

Yeah, the launcher wasn't as good of an idea I has as the dash button "Groove" or whatever. Also, Smash is simple enough to not need autocombos. Air grabs would be cool. But I wouldn't be surprised if that was left for specific characters as their gimmick.

I'm truly surprised that with its addition in Smash Tour, they didn't implement this elsewhere. Presumably it would've been easy. I'd really dig this mode, it'd be a nice change of pace. An alternate mode people would actually use.

And if they're smart, they could tie the "switching characters" concept into the branding of a "Switch Smash".

BOOM! Perfect name to call that mode too. Switch Smash.

Nah, Ryu's inputs are his thing so I'd rather not make that universal. So I think simply pressing A+B and a direction for your special would be a better choice.

That could work. I'm imagining a Crash Bomb that explodes on contact and lingers longer, a bit closer to the MM2 style of the Explosion.

 

[N3ON]

For real though.

She's the only Smash 4 newcomer that isn't fun to play.

Even oddballs like Wii Fit Trainer and low tier characters like Mii Swordfighter are still fun.

Mostly cause their moveset design isn't half baked and cannibalizing itself.

Palutena's default Special Moves needs to be changed. I mean, a counter? Really?

I have to wonder if Palutena's defaults were purposely made underwhelming to incentivize utilizing the new feature of custom moves. Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but it's hard to imagine they'd be so tone-deaf if not the case.

 

[JamesDNaux]

For real though.

She's the only Smash 4 newcomer that isn't fun to play.

Even oddballs like Wii Fit Trainer and low tier characters like Mii Swordfighter are still fun.

Mostly cause their moveset design isn't half baked and cannibalizing itself.

Gotta disagree here, Miss Fit is the only character on the roster I don't have any fun playing as, her moves have such bizarre hitboxes that I feel like I can never land a hit.

Palutena's default specials are garbage, but when I pick the right set of customs, she's at least usable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gotta disagree here, Miss Fit is the only character on the roster I don't have any fun playing as, her moves have such bizarre hitboxes that I feel like I can never land a hit.

Eh.

When you get used to Wii Fit Trainer, she's fairly consistent.

Palutena just feels sluggish and has several moves that seem useless.

 

[Hinata]

For real though.

She's the only Smash 4 newcomer that isn't fun to play.

Even oddballs like Wii Fit Trainer and low tier characters like Mii Swordfighter are still fun.

Mostly cause their moveset design isn't half baked and cannibalizing itself.

I liked Palutena's normals, but her default specials left so much to be desired. If they bring her back for this Smash, I really hope they change up her specials.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Palutena mainly suffers from the shield mechanics I feel. She heavily relies on grabbing because her other options are too unsafe if they whiff.

Her default specials are actually not that bad since she's the only character that can have a reflect and counter move on the same set, giving her useful defensive options.

But mainly the thing that needs to be fixed about Palutena is that her attacks are too risky with little reward.

 

[Deleted member]

And if they're smart, they could tie the "switching characters" concept into the branding of a "Switch Smash".

I like this. And could see this being a thing too tbh.

Also, on the topic of other modes, anyone remember the Bonuses in Melee?

It'd be cool if that was expanded on for a Stylish Smash, where victory goes to the player with the most points, rather than KOs. You could even have the different Bonuses pop on screen. So if you do stale moves, you see the words, and you lose points, if you get the first hit, you see it. Replace the stock count with a point counter, and you could have a fun mode imo.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Palutena's default Special Moves needs to be changed. I mean, a counter? Really?


How likely do you personally think Rex is of getting the Greninja treatment in terms of having a Xenoblade slot reserved for him?


I think part of the criticism, at least in terms of Smash, is that, for some people, Rex wouldn't seem or feel different enough from Shulk. At least that's what I'm guessing (I could be completely off-base).

How about Him being Paired up with Pyra/Mythra in a fashion similar to Rosalina & Luma, and the Ice Climbers(Who should return since they don't have to be limited by the 3DS Capabilities unlike with SSB4)

 

[Luminario]

Palutena's default Special Moves needs to be changed. I mean, a counter? Really?

I still don't get why they went with Counter as default. Celestial Firework is right there if they wanted to stick with a defensive special only more unique, and we all know how good Lightweight is. The others at least make some sense to be default specials, but the only one I'd actually like to see return as default is a buffed Reflect that actually does what it's advertised to do and hang around for more than half a second.

I think Palutena's customs and unique properties of her moves were ultimately her downfall. You can see how unique her moveset was meant to be, but balancing clearly got in the way.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Maybe they'll go off the board and put in Elma and her gun-swords from X? That'd be quite different from Shulk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well that depends. If the roster was finalised around the earlier part of 2016, that would make it ~ one year after the Japanese release of X, but only a couple of months after its international release which was early December.

 

[New_Dumal]

One minor change that I would like into Smash4 is a warning that the time is running out. Something like the SMWorld mechanic of speeding up the music or some visual tip like the clock going red.

I accept the argument that people should be aware of the counter/clock anyway, but at the same time people who wants to timeout should make it happen without the other one not seeing. And I think timeouts are most of the time superhype.

 

[Baskerville]

Speaking of Palutena, I'd like them to change Autoreticle projectile to have more homing properties, unless you're planning to do jab lock combos there's no reason to use Autoreticle.

Actually you can just rename it into Homing Boost.

 

[Bowserlick]

While a transformation-themed character might not be worth bringing back, a Switch ability could allow transformation through a tag-team attack that cycles between your stock-assigned characters.

 

[SlickWylde]

I definitely don't like the current way Smashballs work, and neither have ANY (and I've played Brawl and Sm4sh with a lot of people) of the people I've played with. Characters with higher mobility have a huge advantage, and they're super unbalanced. Some character can basically wipe the screen while others struggle to even get a single kill. I like the idea, but I think the whole system for the Final Smashes needs a rework.

 

[CBO0tz]

Man, I hope Palutena gets buffed. I really wanted to play her but she sucked so hard in Smash 4.

 

[blackghost]

Nah, I genuinely believe that adding Doom Guy would be a disservice to his "character" if he were not as violent. Travis could work without the hyper violence because he has other redeemable qualities. It is what it is, if you do not like it, I guess you just have to actually convince everyone who disagrees with you that they are wrong. "lmfao Bayo Bewbs" is not a great counter-point.

snake called it into question. bayonetta disproves it. I haven't seen anyone acknowledge doomguy is even remotely having a chance outside of thier own dreamlists. fps characters would be boring in smash anyway. I didn't bring up bayonetta bewbs you did.
what is his connection to nintendo? what would his moveset be? what does he bring to the game? i highly doubt nintendo will want to bring in BFG into smash. say the name out loud for goodness sake.

its not a question of what the game he originated in is rated. THAT is the excuse im referring to. If a character is known SINGULARLY for being violence then i dont think they should be in the game. travis has other things. laura croft (picked up steam lately) has other things besides violence, pyra has other things besides being eye candy. does doomguy?? standard of proof rests with you. not me.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

IMO, Palutena should get a new projectile for Neutral and Lightweight for her down special.

But maybe they'll have something new in the customs system...

 

[Baskerville]

Man, I hope Palutena gets buffed. I really wanted to play her but she sucked so hard in Smash 4.

I'm hoping Zelda gets buffed. I'm still perplexed as to why they gave Din's Fire a sour spot and thought it was a good idea.

 

[Bowserlick]

Palutena is a Smash Forum designed character.

In speculation, people beg for their favorite characters and then just want to slap a reflect and counter on them and call it a day.

Gross.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Hell, put Pikachu on the DLC block, he sells.

Yeah sure...if you want people to come to your house and throw some electric bombs are you

Someone brings up Pyra.

>Pyra can't get in unless she's censored.

>Don't censor Pyra.

>Can we stop talking about Pyra?

>Start talking about something else.

>Someone brings up Pyra.


Lovely cycle we have this season.

Pyra is the Ridley of Smash Switch confirmed



Would be nice if we stop talking about characters and movesets for 24 hours and talk about other things like items, Assist Trophies, stages, special modes, Adventure, etc


SOOO much discussion to be made and it's always about characters 97% of the time.

 

[blackghost]

a little

cough

didn't zss chest get bigger brawl to 4?
brawl smash 4

 

[Delzethin]

I guess that is the case. Which is why I precisely don't take the whole "scraping at the bottom of the barrel" arguments seriously, since people used that argument pre-Smash 4.

If anything, thanks to the Smash Ballot, the Smash 5 newcomer roster has the potential to surpass the hype level the vanilla Smash 4 newcomer roster had. People forget this factor.

That's the thing, the "bottom of the barrel" arguments come from people who are only looking at long lived all stars. We do have most of the old guard by now...which is why there was a clear shift in Smash 4's character selection. Now it's become more about Nintendo's rising stars!


Far as new mechanics go, how about this idea: What if custom specials got a rework so that each character had only one variant of each special, but that variant is more mechanically and thematically diverse and properly balanced? For example, Lucario's Aura Sphere alternate could be Focus Blast, a visually distinct copper-colored sphere that would not be affected by his aura level, giving him a more well-rounded move that wouldn't be as terrifying at high percents but would give him a viable kill option at lower percents!

 

[Chiroz]

Do you consider SS and 3D World to be very successful titles? Because those directly preceded BoTW and Odyssey.

Do you not consider them to be successful? I mean SS didn't sell as well as other Zelda games normally sell, but it was still a success, or so I believe.

Also I personally don't consider 3D World Odyssey's predecessor, because it's 2 different kinds of Mario. 3D World is another change in formula from the New Super Mario Bros formula. While Odyssey is a new formula (or old I guess, because it's trying to go back to 64 era) to the Galaxy series.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Would be nice if we stop talking about characters and movesets for 24 hours and talk about other things like items, Assist Trophies, stages, special modes, Adventure, etc

Yeah; Like who could be the New Announcer for Smash for Switch; or What will they use in place of the Slogan (In Xander Mobus' Announcer Voice) SETTLE IT IN SMASH ; And What could they use in place of the Splash Screens & Character Taglines(like Greninja Makes a Splash; or Mewtwo Strikes back, or Lucas comes out of Nowhere, etc) from SSB4 in the Character Trailers, or Black Subspace Emissary Borders with Names from Brawl

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Nah, I genuinely believe that adding Doom Guy would be a disservice to his "character" if he were not as violent. Travis could work without the hyper violence because he has other redeemable qualities.

If I may provide a counterpoint, Doomguy, particularly his "modern" incarnation Doom Slayer isn't so much known for the violence, but the brutality.For example, A down throw that slams the foe into the ground multiple times before letting go.

And he has other memorable character points:

• Arsenal: The guy carries an armoury's worth of gear at all times,
• Manoeuvrability: Doom's gameplay loop is based around dodging projectiles and closing the gap at all times.
• Beserker: One of Doom's most famous powerups strips you of all weapons but makes you super tough and super fast. Dual moveset maybe?
• Bunnies: The demons killed his pet rabbit and he's out for revenge. That's ocean deep characterisation compared to some of the roster.

 

[N3ON]

Palutena is a Smash Forum designed character.

In speculation, people beg for their favorite characters and then just want to slap a reflect and counter on them and call it a day.

Gross.

It was a hell of a monkey paw.

I just hope Sakurai hears the outcry like he did with tripping, even though that was much louder.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Palutena is a Smash Forum designed character.

In speculation, people beg for their favorite characters and then just want to slap a reflect and counter on them and call it a day.

Gross.

Reflect and counter are two things I deliberately avoid when coming up with movesets. They're so stale and unexciting.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Palutena's reflect barrier is kinda cool with it's push efffect but her counter... pure rubbish.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Reflect and counter are two things I deliberately avoid when coming up with movesets. They're so stale and unexciting.

I Disagree; I Love Counters; They're So Fun to do; I Love Countering an Attack!!!

 

[Bowserlick]

I think counters have design space.

Counters can absorb damage and translate that damage into an effect.

Bayonetta stopping time with her counter is an overpowered example.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Okay, so I'm gonna try something a little bit different. Let's talk about music. In particular, I'm gonna give you guys a challenge.

And to make it a little interesting, I'm going to give you a game I don't think many of you have played.

Let's imagine, that Xenoblade Chronicles X gets a stage. It can be any location from the game you want but the important thing its that its a stage from that game.

Point is, you are in charge of picking the music tracks for that stage. But there are some requirements...

1. There must be 10 tracks total.
2. They must all be from Xenoblade Chronicles X.
3. 3 of them must be remixes of some sort. You will need to specify which ones get the remixes.
4. EXTRA CREDIT: If you want, you can pick one extra track from a Nintendo series that you don't think will ever get a stage that would fit on the stage.

Now, that's kind of daunting, especially if you don't know Xenoblade Chronicles X. I'm a nice guy though, so I've compiled several tracks that are prominent in the game and put them in the spoiler below. I've even included links so you can listen to them and small descriptions of when they play.

Be warned, the official names in the Xenoblade Chronicles X OST suck balls.

For example, Tatsu's theme is named "z39b20co13mi01cal09

Still, with my descriptions, you should be able to figure out which tracks are which.

Spoiler: Lots of Xenoblade Chronicles X Music + Brief Explanations

Hope you guys like the challenge. If you do, I'm willing to do more in the future, but let's start with this.


Tagging some people I know like Xenoblade Chronicles and people who like video game music.

@Opossum
@theoria
@mario123007
@Aetheri
Bebe Mignon
@Venus of the Desert Bloom
@Final Smash Gamer

Have at 'em folks.

My location would be at Old Dragontail Tree in Noctilum.

1.
-CODENAMEZ (Remix)
-THEMEX
-MONOX
-Your Voice
-The Way
-Black Tar (Remix)
-Uncontrollable
-The Key We've Lost
-N木ig木ht木L (Noctilum)
-Don't Worry (Remix)

Extra Credit:
Alien Conflict from Perfect Dark

 

[CBO0tz]

I'm hoping Zelda gets buffed. I'm still perplexed as to why they gave Din's Fire a sour spot and thought it was a good idea.

I'm sure she will. I imagine both Link and Zelda will have some interesting new moves to complement their BOTW looks.
I have no idea what kinda BOTW-based moveset Zelda would have, though.

 

[Radical Bones]

The abundance of counters is the worst but I read a fake moveset recently which said that Wolf would have a new move which acts as a counter but has someone from Star Wolf target them off screen and fires dodgeable lasers at them. So it's not guaranteed to hit each time but has the opponent focus on dodging two attacks at once. Sounded cool.