Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Bradli Wartooth]

No.

Any action you take in the air adds landing lag.

Test it out in Smash 4 yourself.

Jump and then jump with an air dodge.

Even after the air dodge is finished, it'll have more landing lag.

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Air_dodge
I got this 4 u
"However, air dodges now produce a significant landing lag of 21 frames as the character lands with an air dodge active, even during vulnerability frames, making air dodges easier to punish on land, and thus riskier to use close to the ground."

 

[Nekoo]

Sora and Earthworm Jim are two guest characters I'd consider putting on my runner-up list, but they're not historically big video game characters.. At least not compared to the icons most people have on their wish lists (myself included).

I kindly disagree with you. Sora IS a big Video Game Icons, just for the mere fact it's the child of the cross-over of Disney AND Final fantasy. Kingdom Heart Popularity only goes up, to the point where it trump 95% of the Marvel/Movie/Cartoon announcement in a DISNEY event in term of hype, and Disney themselves seems to know about it since some years ago...Probably the last two three years?

Where they were willing to let Sora Appear in World of Final Fantasy as DLC and cross over With Final Fantasy Record Keeper the mobile game in an event.
And KHIII is apparently the only game where Tetsuya Nomura is free to do whatever he want, alongside getting resources and Help from Disney themselves (Razpunzel teams/ Pixars etc)

Sora is probably the only Third Party and announcement that I think could Break the Internet once again like Cloud and Sonic.

 

[IronTed]

Well, it was a blast, and certainly a big surprise, but unfortunately RidleyBoards will be leaving us shortly. Godspeed.

 

[Danpal65]

I kindly disagree with you. Sora IS a big Video Game Icons, just for the mere fact it's the child of the cross-over of Disney AND Final fantasy. Kingdom Heart Popularity only goes up, to the point where it trump 95% of the Marvel/Movie/Cartoon announcement in a DISNEY event in term of hype, and Disney themselves seems to know about it since some years ago...Probably the last two three years?

Where they were willing to let Sora Appear in World of Final Fantasy as DLC and cross over With Final Fantasy Record Keeper the mobile game in an event.
And KHIII is apparently the only game where Tetsuya Nomura is free to do whatever he want, alongside getting resources and Help from Disney themselves (Razpunzel teams/ Pixars etc)

Sora is probably the only Third Party and announcement that I think could Break the Internet once again like Cloud and Sonic.

The dream would be to get the announcement that Sora is coming to Smash along with news that KHIII is being ported to the Switch.

 

[PeridotGX]

RIP Ridleyboards. I would say it was fun while it lasted, but lying is bad.

 

[Lyndis_]

...I still think a single directional airdodge that doesn't put you into special fall would be the best.

You can still use moves afterwards to further cover a landing/recovery but it kinda makes you think before you throw one out since it won't always be the best option.

Rivals of Aether and the Artful Phoenix mod for Sm4sh show this pretty well.

I have to say I prefer the special fall system though. Maybe I'm just used to it, but it always made the most sense to me. Being able to airdodge upwards then use a recovery feels OP.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

W o w this looks really weird now, even after only having 24 hours of pure bliss.

 

[kylexv]

Saying my goodbye to RidleyBoards. It was a big April Fools effort for the SmashBoards and, as I can tell, it had a BIG payoff

 

[Danpal65]

RIP Ridleyboards. I would say it was fun while it lasted, but lying is bad.

Boo! Long live Ridley and may he return soon (fingers crossed for E3).

Rivals of Aether and the Artful Phoenix mod for Sm4sh show this pretty well.

Rivals of Aether is actually a really tight game mechanically. Dan Fornace really knows what he is doing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Air_dodge
I got this 4 u
"However, air dodges now produce a significant landing lag of 21 frames as the character lands with an air dodge active, even during vulnerability frames, making air dodges easier to punish on land, and thus riskier to use close to the ground."

Yeah. It adds MORE lag when the air dodge isn't finished.

But it still adds lag even its if finished. Just less. Comparable to the lag an attack has when you land after the animation is finished.

 

[Warchamp7]

It will remain for the truly dedicated

 

[NintenRob]

Toad confirmed
https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/600769151137927170?s=19

 

[Chiroz]

Yeah. It adds MORE lag when the air dodge isn't finished.

But it still adds lag even its if finished. Just less. Comparable to the lag an attack has when you land after the animation is finished.

You are wrong.

Every action in the game has an amount of time it can add landing lag, once that time is done it will not add landing lag anymore. The only actions that go against this rule are very specific Up-Bs (Like ZSS' and Mario's) and Bayo's Up-B and Side-B.


You might be confused because the amount of time an action can add landing lag is often times greater than the duration of the action itself. Like aerials, which can last 25 frames in the air but you get extra landing lag if you land anytime before frame 30. Landing after frame 30 though means 0 extra lag.

 

[kylexv]

Toad confirmed
https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/600769151137927170?s=19

That's from 3 years ago...
Really doubt it confirms anything.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Regarding Captain Toad, if he gets in as playable, why not just call him "Toad" and give him both the iconic outfit and the Captain Toad alternative costume? That way everyone is happy. He could even use the pickaxe from the Captain Toad games without going through the convoluted "no jumping" mechanic.

The whole point is that Captain Toad is one of the more memorable Nintendo characters/games of the 2014-2016 era. Having him be a generic Toad or pretending he's just Toad by removing the "Captain" title would take away his personality. All the personality and move set potential derives from the Captain Toad persona and it's essential that it does in order to justify his inclusion.

A lot of us consider Captain Toad to be the only version of Toad that's even on the table when it comes to probable characters. Having both versions of Toad is neither a reasonable or doable compromise. Having normal Toad takes away the headlamp as an ability and it makes the references to the Captain Toad games and music out of place as well as the lethargic personality of Captain Toad. It's not as simple as a model swap. So everyone's not happy. Some people don't want a generic Toad. They want Captain Toad and for good reason because he actually has an identity and unique character traits. Toad has nothing that isn't desperately shoe horned into him by woefully desperate fan made move set concepts.

 

[NintenRob]

That's from 3 years ago...
Really doubt it confirms anything.

Toad doesn't care when something is posted, time is relative.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I kindly disagree with you. Sora IS a big Video Game Icons, just for the mere fact it's the child of the cross-over of Disney AND Final fantasy. Kingdom Heart Popularity only goes up, to the point where it trump 95% of the Marvel/Movie/Cartoon announcement in a DISNEY event in term of hype, and Disney themselves seems to know about it since some years ago...Probably the last two three years?

Where they were willing to let Sora Appear in World of Final Fantasy as DLC and cross over With Final Fantasy Record Keeper the mobile game in an event.
And KHIII is apparently the only game where Tetsuya Nomura is free to do whatever he want, alongside getting resources and Help from Disney themselves (Razpunzel teams/ Pixars etc)

Sora is probably the only Third Party and announcement that I think could Break the Internet once again like Cloud and Sonic.

I agree. I think Sora is the best option for a new guest character. I would see him as the most likely guest character, but who knows if Sakurai would be able to get the right to use him in the way he wants.

 

[Lyndis_]

It will remain for the truly dedicated

View attachment 140308

TFW no premium

Spoiler: oversized reaction image

Boo! Long live Ridley and may he return soon (fingers crossed for E3).



Rivals of Aether is actually a really tight game mechanically. Dan Fornace really knows what he is doing.

Agreed. Although I don't think porting mechanics from it works great in Smash without redesigning all of the characters to work around it. RoA has no ledge grabbing and most of the recoveries aren't great so the airdodge system works fine there.

One of my main complaints with AF is just how overpowered every character's recovery is with the RoA system. To be gimped you have to either be Little Mac or going way too far off to ever have recovered anyways.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You are wrong.

Every action in the game has an amount of time it can add landing lag, once that time is done it will not add landing lag anymore. The only actions that go against this rule are very specific Up-Bs (Like ZSS' and Mario's) and Bayo's Up-B and Side-B.


You might be confused because the amount of time an action can add landing lag is often times greater than the duration of the action itself. Like aerials, which can last 25 frames in the air but you get extra landing lag if you land anytime before frame 30. Landing after frame 30 though means 0 extra lag.

Are you sure?

Cause like, unless air dodges have a LOT of extra landing lag frames, it always seems to happen even after long drops after the air dodge.

Are you sure that there's no difference in lag between an empty jump and a jump that had an action (but finished the action) in it?

Coulda sworn.

Maybe I am wrong I guess.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Captain Toad's inability to jump is not an obstacle. It just makes for a more interesting fighter who works around the rules to recover. There are other ways to recover or "jump" without jumping. Like Captain Toad being abducted by Wingo, making him just as agile as any other character with wings.

 

[Lyndis_]

I honestly still believe the best middle ground for Captain Toad would be to just make them unable to double jump.

Aerials are pretty important parts of the game and he'd feel like much less of a character without having the part of the moveset, but I also definitely disagree with taking out his gimmick of the inability to completely jump (the main difference of how he plays in his games compared to other mario characters)

I also disagree with the idea of just making them a generic toad. Captain Toad / Archivist Toadette are pretty specific characters, along with Hint Toad and a few other characters that happen to be toads.

It'd be like just putting a generic Waddle Dee with no significance in Smash instead of Bandana Dee, doesn't really make sense when you have enough to work with already from the character.

 

[Danpal65]

Captain Toad's inability to jump is not an obstacle. It just makes for a more interesting fighter who works around the rules to recover. There are other ways to recover or "jump" without jumping. Like Captain Toad being abducted by Wingo, making him just as agile as any other character with wings.

As cool as it would be to be able to have Captain Toad without any jumps there is no way that Sakurai is going to have a character that can not jump in the game. He will at least have a jump that is like Little Mac's, short and demonstrative of his weak/inability to jump due to his backpack.

Alternatively, as some people have suggested many pages back, just stick some flavour text in his trophy description saying that he packed light in preparation for Smash, thus allowing him to jump. He can have a whacky, creative recovery, but he will need to have at least some semblance of a jump.

 

[Chiroz]

Are you sure?

Cause like, unless air dodges have a LOT of extra landing lag frames, it always seems to happen even after long drops after the air dodge.

Are you sure that there's no difference in lag between an empty jump and a jump that had an action (but finished the action) in it?

Coulda sworn.

Maybe I am wrong I guess.

I am very confident of it. I won't say I am 100% sure because I have never tested it myself on a vacuum, but I read a ton of frame data and theory of the game and I feel like if it was a thing, I would know. Also, if the game worked that way then L-Cancelling would in fact be a thing in Smash 4, except it would be A-Landing L-Cancelling.

A-Landing is a technique that eliminates landing lag by landing on the "auto cancel" frames of your aerials (which 90% of the chars have at least 1 aerial that auto cancels). If persistent landing lag was in fact a mechanic, then everyone would have to use A-Landing to eliminate that lag all the time.

Instead A-Landing is a technique that is only used when you Air Dodge too close to the ground, specifically because you want to eliminate the lag from the Air Dodge (or for some specific characters it can also be used to eliminate the lag from certain aerials, like Roy, who can make his F-Air landing lag 11 instead of 13). The fact that you can perform A-Landing proves the point I was talking about earlier, where the Air Dodge is already done and you can perform an aerial, but landing would still make you lag from the Air Dodge.

 

[Hinata]

It will remain for the truly dedicated

View attachment 140308

Just another reason I need to buy Premium.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

As cool as it would be to be able to have Captain Toad without any jumps

I didn't suggest that.

there is no way that Sakurai is going to have a character that can not jump in the game.

I didn't suggest that either.

 

[Starcutter]

All this talk about airdodging just proves one thing.

Airdodging is stupid and complicated.

Remove it. We 64 boys

 

[CBO0tz]

I kindly disagree with you. Sora IS a big Video Game Icons, just for the mere fact it's the child of the cross-over of Disney AND Final fantasy. Kingdom Heart Popularity only goes up, to the point where it trump 95% of the Marvel/Movie/Cartoon announcement in a DISNEY event in term of hype, and Disney themselves seems to know about it since some years ago...Probably the last two three years?

Where they were willing to let Sora Appear in World of Final Fantasy as DLC and cross over With Final Fantasy Record Keeper the mobile game in an event.
And KHIII is apparently the only game where Tetsuya Nomura is free to do whatever he want, alongside getting resources and Help from Disney themselves (Razpunzel teams/ Pixars etc)

Sora is probably the only Third Party and announcement that I think could Break the Internet once again like Cloud and Sonic.

Well, I'm also a bit biased in my opinion to not include Sora.. I'd probably put him in my Smash 5 Top 10 Most Wanted DLC.

Also, Toad would be interesting. Makes me wonder if they're gonna change Peach's Neutral B..

 

[IanTheGamer]

Sora won't get in for one reason, DISNEY, I doubt Disney will license their created characters for a fighting game, and no Disney characters = No Kingdom Hearts. Plus with Nintendo's deal with Universal, there will be Smash Bros featured in Nintendoland Hollywood and Nintendoland Florida in some way eventually, and I don't think Disney would want to promote their main competitor in one of their big moneymaking industries, anyway

 

[N3ON]

It will remain for the truly dedicated

View attachment 140308

Yet for now, Shaqboards remains only in our hearts. ;_;

Near, far, wherever you are
I believe that the heart does go on
Once more, bring Shaq to the boards
And my money I'll give
As my premium goes on and on

 

[Chiroz]

You know, Smash 5 could just add a dedicated "Dash" button like MvC, DBFZ, GG or any "Air Dasher" game.

1-) If you land during a dash you retain the momentum.
2-) When dashing backwards you don't turn around.
3-) During dash animations you can't dodge, shield or perform another dash but you can perform any other action with no lag.
4-) For balancing purposes: Air Dashes share their "charge" with mid air jumps. If you dash, you cannot jump, if you jump you cannot dash. You only get 1 dash until you touch the ground (Possibly characters with extra jumps could also get extra dashes).

There..., Wavedashing (and also Perfect Pivoting and Wavelanding too) with a 1 button input.

 

[Knight Dude]

Well, I'm also a bit biased in my opinion to not include Sora.. I'd probably put him in my Smash 5 Top 10 Most Wanted DLC.

Also, Toad would be interesting. Makes me wonder if they're gonna change Peach's Neutral B..

I just want her Neutral B changed if only for something more useful.

I know the game is less relevant than before, but I'd really like it if she had moves from her solo game. It was pretty fun if not easy as hell.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Oh boy, we talkin bout Captain Toad's jumping capabilities again?

I personally like the idea of him being able to pack and unpack his backpack. If you fill it up to the max you can't jump and your less agile, but your very heavy, and having it completely empty let's you jump high and you become more agile, but your very light.

 

[Knight Dude]

I never really wanted Toad playable, but if he was, I imagine a big deal regarding his movement is that he's pretty fast on the ground and air, but he has trash jumps just like Mario 2/3D World. And his specials could borrow from the NSMB games, like the Propeller Hat and Ice Flower.

 

[Starcutter]

You know, Smash 5 could just add a dedicated "Dash" button like MvC, DBFZ, GG or any "Air Dasher" game.

1-) In the air, you can dash in any direction (like Fox's Firefox or Melee Air Dodge).
2-) If you land from a Dash you retain the momentum.
3-) When dashing backwards you don't turn around.
4-) During dash animations you can't dodge, shield or perform another dash but you can perform any other action with no lag.
5-) For balancing purposes: Air Dashes share their "charge" with mid air jumps. If you dash, you cannot jump, if you jump you cannot dash. You only get 1 dash until you touch the ground (Possibly characters with extra jumps could also get extra dashes).

There..., Wavedashing (and also Perfect Pivoting and Wavelanding too) with a 1 button input.

Honestly good.

I was advocating wavedashing because of the simplicity of a movement option, but this just simplifies it further.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Look, I seriously doubt most of us Captain Toad fans are gonna go ''BUT WAAA HE CAN'T JUMP WAAA."

Can we please drop this? Like it's the dumbest thing to ask them to remain faithful to. Sonic can swim. Multiple characters have had their size decreased or increased.

Like him being to not jump in his game is not even the most part of his game to begin with.

 

[CBO0tz]

Yet for now, Shaqboards remains only in our hearts. ;_;

Near, far, wherever you are
I believe that the heart does go on
Once more, bring Shaq to the boards
And my money I'll give
As my premium goes on and on

Read that with Celine Dion singing in my head.

You know, Smash 5 could just add a dedicated "Dash" button like MvC, DBFZ, GG or any "Air Dasher" game.

1-) If you land during a dash you retain the momentum.
2-) When dashing backwards you don't turn around.
3-) During dash animations you can't dodge, shield or perform another dash but you can perform any other action with no lag.
4-) For balancing purposes: Air Dashes share their "charge" with mid air jumps. If you dash, you cannot jump, if you jump you cannot dash. You only get 1 dash until you touch the ground (Possibly characters with extra jumps could also get extra dashes).

There..., Wavedashing (and also Perfect Pivoting and Wavelanding too) with a 1 button input.

That's a neat idea.. But Idk that would change part of Smash's system in a pretty big way

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Also I'm realizing. God I'm an old **** when it comes to posting on this board. I remember Shaqboards, Knucklesboards, Emblemboards, and now Ridleyboards.

 

[Senselessbreak]

99% sure this is just a larper, but because we love digging into this kind of stuff, these "leaks" were going around earler.

Spoiler

Newcomer list:
インクリング
キングクルール
ディクシーコング
リドリー
ワルイージ
ジュナイパー
鷹丸
不来方夕莉
レックス & ホムラ
シャンティ
ボンバーマン
トラヴィス・タッチダウン
風間 仁
???

 

[Chiroz]

Read that with Celine Dion singing in my head.


That's a neat idea.. But Idk that would change part of Smash's system in a pretty big way

Yea, it would change a lot. It would do the exact same thing as adding Wavedash (it literally has the same physics and uses), only it's much easier to grasp conceptually and it's a 1 button input instead of 2 buttons + direction.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Captain Toad would be able to jump but on the flip side he might be a super heavy weight which would be ****ing awesome and make perfect sense. I’d totally dig a tiny super heavyweight.

Also I'm realizing. God I'm an old **** when it comes to posting on this board. I remember Shaqboards, Knucklesboards, Emblemboards, and now Ridleyboards.

Retroboards/Smash World Network was my ****ing jam. Speaking of, why ain’t that and Shaqboards a choice for Premiums? Memory issues?