Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CrusherMania1592]

Decidueye > every other gen 1 pokemon

Also I would be seriously disappointed if we get yet another Gen 1 remake. GF (and the fanbase) **** over Gen 1 way too much and it's honestly tiring at this point. Give me more Gen 3/5 love.

I want Gengar to be the last Gen 1 rep and I'm good

And we need some 3 love. 5? They're in a tough spot

 

[Chiroz]

I just hate how there's a lot of cool pokemon from other generations that never got shown off in smash, despite more gen 1 pokemon being added in brawl.

Charizard is overrated AF, by the way. Mewtwo and Pikachu are the only good gen 1 pokemon for smash in my eyes. If any of the other ones weren't in smash I doubt people would be supporting Puff or Charizard as much as they do now. (not that they don't have their own merit though. The fact that they are in smash now kinda makes them more important than they truely are.)

Nah, Charizard won so many popularity polls in so many sites. I used to keep track of that stuff and get pissed at how Mewtwo (back then my 3rd favorite Pokemon, now like my 5th) would always place below Zard. Even Pikachu placed below Zard a bunch of times which is saying a lot.

His popularity comes from the fact that he is one of the 3 Pokemon you get immensely attached to due to being your very first, and from those 3 he is the coolest looking by far (IS THAT A DRAGON?), so like it was obvious he was going to be super popular.



All in all, all those cool new looking Pokemon you want to be in Smash, need to become as popular as Zard or Mewtwo or Pikachu in order to get added. I think it is a horrible idea to add a Pokemon for "representation", makes little sense.

The way GF is working is making 1-2 Pokemon super popular per generation. So if there is any chance for a Pokemon in a gen its that one or two Pokemon. Which has already happened twice with Lucario and Greninja, but didn't happen with Zoroark. It could happen this gen for Decidueye or Mimikyu.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Is it really that necessary to have equal playable representation between Generations? That's what Poke Balls are for

 

[Chandeelure]

だ、だ、大ニュースですっ！！！
25周年のクライマックスは、「ワドルディ」！
なんと！『星のワドルディ25周年』公式サイトがオープンしましたっ！
われわれが主人公の最新作ゲームも続々登場！？
どきどき……要チェックです！https://t.co/dfVk7BJVa7#ワド25周年 #エイプリルフール pic.twitter.com/9EdvkxOoRM

— 星のカービィ (@Kirby_JP) April 1, 2018

Bandana Dee confirmed.

 

[Chiroz]

だ、だ、大ニュースですっ！！！
25周年のクライマックスは、「ワドルディ」！
なんと！『星のワドルディ25周年』公式サイトがオープンしましたっ！
われわれが主人公の最新作ゲームも続々登場！？
どきどき……要チェックです！https://t.co/dfVk7BJVa7#ワド25周年 #エイプリルフール pic.twitter.com/9EdvkxOoRM

— 星のカービィ (@Kirby_JP) April 1, 2018

Bandana Dee confirmed.

Bandana Dee has been in Kirby for 25 years? I thought it was only like 10, lol.

Edit: NM The 25th anniversary is for Waddle Dees in general from what I gather.

 

[Pakky]

だ、だ、大ニュースですっ！！！
25周年のクライマックスは、「ワドルディ」！
なんと！『星のワドルディ25周年』公式サイトがオープンしましたっ！
われわれが主人公の最新作ゲームも続々登場！？
どきどき……要チェックです！https://t.co/dfVk7BJVa7#ワド25周年 #エイプリルフール pic.twitter.com/9EdvkxOoRM

— 星のカービィ (@Kirby_JP) April 1, 2018

Bandana Dee confirmed.

Pretty much, congrats little man! Your spear points true!

 

[CBO0tz]

Yeet Bandana Dee

I feel like his moveset would be like spear-based versions of Meta Knight or Dedede's moves

 

[BluePikmin11]

I still wanna get answers from Arcanir about the placeholder spots before I answer any questions about "recency" newcomers from FE and Pokemon TBH.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Ubisoft effectively treats them as their own series. It really doesn't ensure anything at all. It's obvious they would push Rabbids as playable, and Rayman still has a fair chance of being playable. Seeing them both is honestly pretty believable at this point. Though if they don't become playable, they'd make excellent Mii Costumes, as they got weapons/options from the various games that fit well.

Only thing I can see keeping them out is either the companies not cooperating(Rayman and the Rabbids being an overall package deal would make sense, and Nintendo/Sakurai not wanting to have both playable could happen) or moveset potential for the Rabbids not being good enough(which still makes the Mii Costumes a good workaround, if Ubisoft would be willing to do that).

Oh I wouldn't care if the Rabbids were a Mii costume, but I'd prefer if the minions of gaming (I know they came but they both fill in the niche of annoying characters to pander to the lowest common denominator) weren't on the roster. Bayonetta at the very least has more fans than detractors.

 

[MysticKnives]

Decidueye > every other gen 1 pokemon

Also I would be seriously disappointed if we get yet another Gen 1 remake. GF (and the fanbase) **** over Gen 1 way too much and it's honestly tiring at this point. Give me more Gen 3/5 love.

Decidueye ain't got nothing on Rhydon, Jigglypuff, Kabutops, or the amazing Cloyster. I'd personally love more Gen 3 and 5 stuff. Breloom, Hydreigon, Volcarona, and Haxorus are legit four of my five favorite Pokemon. But Gen 1 is the most popular and has been around the longest. It gets more exposure because it's the most popular and it's the most popular because of it's exposure.

 

[Starcutter]

I literally don't know what I was talking about on that last page regarding Charizard. I knew he was mega popular (I literally said he was overrated), but idk. I think I am just biased. I'm usually open minded about this sort of thing so idk what came over me.

Lucario and Greninja def reached the heights of Charizard, but idk if anyone else ever did. If I had to bet, Zoroark probably came close, but then died off with gen 5. I think Zoroark used to be in some game show but was replaced by Lucario or something.

Unfortunately, I don't think any new pokemon will ever reach the heights of the gen 1 smash characters, even puff. That may be in part due to smash, but a lot of it is nostalgia. I really don't like when people are super biased by nostalgia, so that's probably why I was so aggressive last page.


If any pokemon got as popular as the gen 1 pokemon, I hope it's Lycanroc. Just think about it. Lycanroc is
- Heavily promoted (especially for USUM) in out of game material
- is one of Ash's main pokemon in the SM anime
- Got an additional form in USUM, as well as a unique Z move

Lycanroc fits the formula for a popular pokemon. Hopefully that doesn't fade like a lot of other pokemon in the past.

Spoiler

(After writing that I remembered Mimikyu, and that's probably going to be one of the most popular pokemon tbh)

 

[IsmaR]

Gen V had:

• 3 of the 5 Pokemon enemies in Smash Run (Petilil, Chandelure, and Cryogonal).

• A B/W specific stage on 3DS

• 4 remixes across both 3DS and Wii U

• Victini, Kyurem, Keldeo, and Meloetta as Pokeball Pokemon.

• The usual trophies and cameos on the new Kalos League stage.

• If you want to get technical, Mewtwo's Final Smash was first introduced in Gen V.

Coming from a huge Gen V fan, I felt it was not underrepresented at all.

Having playable fighters is not everything (and no, I don't feel like we NEED the equivalent of each gen's 'Lucario' to fill an arbitrary "representation" quota).

 

[Superyoshiom]

Decidueye ain't got nothing on Rhydon, Jigglypuff, Kabutops, or the amazing Cloyster. I'd personally love more Gen 3 and 5 stuff. Breloom, Hydreigon, Volcarona, and Haxorus are legit four of my five favorite Pokemon. But Gen 1 is the most popular and has been around the longest. It gets more exposure because it's the most popular and it's the most popular because of it's exposure.

Holy cow we should've gotten Haxorus as a gen 5. It's a freaking dinosaur with a battle axe in its mouth. It isn't even overdesigned, it just screams awesome.

 

[MysticKnives]

I literally don't know what I was talking about on that last page regarding Charizard. I knew he was mega popular (I literally said he was overrated), but idk. I think I am just biased. I'm usually open minded about this sort of thing so idk what came over me.

Lucario and Greninja def reached the heights of Charizard, but idk if anyone else ever did. If I had to bet, Zoroark probably came close, but then died off with gen 5. I think Zoroark used to be in some game show but was replaced by Lucario or something.

Unfortunately, I don't think any new pokemon will ever reach the heights of the gen 1 smash characters, even puff. That may be in part due to smash, but a lot of it is nostalgia. I really don't like when people are super biased by nostalgia, so that's probably why I was so aggressive last page.


If any pokemon got as popular as the gen 1 pokemon, I hope it's Lycanroc. Just think about it. Lycanroc is
- Heavily promoted (especially for USUM) in out of game material
- is one of Ash's main pokemon in the SM anime
- Got an additional form in USUM, as well as a unique Z move

Lycanroc fits the formula for a popular pokemon. Hopefully that doesn't fade like a lot of other pokemon in the past.

Spoiler

(After writing that I remembered Mimikyu, and that's probably going to be one of the most popular pokemon tbh)

As far as Gen 7 goes, Rowlett and Mimikyu definitely seem to be the heavy hitters. Then in Japan from that poll, Primarina and Incineroar also seem to be popular too, but they aren't as popular as the former.

Holy cow we should've gotten Haxorus as a gen 5. It's a freaking dinosaur with a battle axe in its mouth. It isn't even overdesigned, it just screams awesome.

I'd love to have Haxorus in the game. It or Breloom would be so fun to play for me.

EDIT: Not sure why my computer reacted that way. Didn't mean to double post. It's been freezing on me.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

What up Warchamp7 . And hullo to you as well Ms. Cyn .

Edit: accidentally hit send early. Oops.

To be honest I’ve never been a fan of Gen 5. I don’t hate it, but it’s never stood out to me.

 

[Starcutter]

Gen V had:

• 
  
  
  • 3 of the 5 Pokemon enemies in Smash Run (Petilil, Chandelure, and Cryogonal).
  • A B/W specific stage on 3D
  • 4 remixes across both 3DS and Wii U
  • Victini, Kyurem, Keldeo, and Meloetta as Pokeball Pokemon.
  • The usual trophies and cameos on the new Kalos League stage.
  • If you want to get technical, Mewtwo's Final Smash was first introduced in Gen V.

Coming from a huge Gen V fan, I felt it was not underrepresented at all.

Having playable fighters is not everything (and no, I don't feel like we NEED the equivalent of each gen's 'Lucario' to fill an arbitrary "representation" quota).

That's true to be honest. There's plenty of pokemon in the Pokeballs and stuff. That's all pokemon fans really need. I especially liked the Rayquaza boss fight in Brawl, I hope they do more of that sorta thing in the future.

I just hate how attached to generation 1 everyone is, inside AND OUTSIDE of smash. I'm just tired of it. This is coming from a guy who has Beedrill as his favourite pokemon, who tf even likes Beedrill? Me. And I say Gen 1 is overrated.

 

[Polan]

Decidueye ain't got nothing on Rhydon, Jigglypuff, Kabutops, or the amazing Cloyster. I'd personally love more Gen 3 and 5 stuff. Breloom, Hydreigon, Volcarona, and Haxorus are legit four of my five favorite Pokemon. But Gen 1 is the most popular and has been around the longest. It gets more exposure because it's the most popular and it's the most popular because of it's exposure.

Badass archer ghost owl > a fat rhino, a sentient balloon, not-helix, and lewd joke fodder. fite me if you disagree.

 

[Warchamp7]

Absolutely definitely not testing April Fools 2018 in here

 

[Starcutter]

Absolutely definitely not testing April Fools 2018 in here

I'm going to be honest, I completely forgot about april fools.

There's no way it can top Shaqboards

(I'd like to see it top Shaqboards)

 

[Arcanir]

Arcanir , if it is not too much trouble, what about the timespan between Smash 4 DLC and Fire Emblem Fate's Corrin too?

Perhaps we can progress the FE newcomer situation further if we figure out both.

There's nothing definite on the matter, but if we take Sakurai's words on the matter and the internal slots, he likely was decided sometime early on, potentially after Roy and Ryu's release.​

By six months earlier or later, you mean Fire Emblem Awakening or Smash 4? What exactly would be the time span?​

Awakening, it was mentioned in his article about FE's 25th anniversary.

And it's pretty much as he said, if it came 6 months earlier or later from when development started, their characters may've not made it into the game.

For the FE Switch character's timing, I think since it is coming around Smash Switch's release, I think we will probably get a character from that game, whether it be last-minute or a unique newcomer, which makes the FE Switch's situation more akin to Greninja.

​

There still would be a pretty big gap between how those two games were treated though as Pokémon XY came out a year before Smash 4 while FE Switch would come out either just before or after Smash Switch. They could fill in a slot as the most current character, but that's where the similarities would stop.

I kinda agree with Pokemon SM, but who knows, GF may want to strictly change plans for Sakurai and add a Pokemon from the '8th generation'.

Potentially yes as Pokémon has been an outlier before and we know how TCPi is when it comes to promotion, it's just not something I'm certain on due to the timing differences between the two examples (especially if Pokémon Switch slips into 2019).

Since both new FE/Pokemon games are near, if characters from the new games were to be added, it could cause a dilemma to which more characters could get cut than in Smash 4, making the slots for add more last minute clones less of an opportunity. It could even cause a delay depending on the circumstances, but I am somewhat confident that they could make it in time with the Switch game development being a faster process than before.

I don't think that'd be the case. I feel if the new characters from those games are being added, it wouldn't be at a time where it'd affect development in a negative way as even with Greninja Sakurai avoided the issue by digging up concepts from GF/TCPi. I imagine if push came to shove and he had to represent the new FE/Pokémon game, he'd do the same here as he has experience in working with both companies and would likely know how to operate under the restrictions both pose. At the very least, I doubt it'd be another Sonic case where we get delays and (potentially) cuts, at best we'd lose a character that was already low priority anyway and was just on the cusp of being cut in the first place.

 

[Chandeelure]

Bandana Dee has been in Kirby for 25 years? I thought it was only like 10, lol.

Edit: NM The 25th anniversary is for Waddle Dees in general from what I gather.

Bandana Dee is 22 years old, so it is not really that different haha.

 

[Chiroz]

I literally don't know what I was talking about on that last page regarding Charizard. I knew he was mega popular (I literally said he was overrated), but idk. I think I am just biased. I'm usually open minded about this sort of thing so idk what came over me.

Lucario and Greninja def reached the heights of Charizard, but idk if anyone else ever did. If I had to bet, Zoroark probably came close, but then died off with gen 5. I think Zoroark used to be in some game show but was replaced by Lucario or something.

Unfortunately, I don't think any new pokemon will ever reach the heights of the gen 1 smash characters, even puff. That may be in part due to smash, but a lot of it is nostalgia. I really don't like when people are super biased by nostalgia, so that's probably why I was so aggressive last page.


If any pokemon got as popular as the gen 1 pokemon, I hope it's Lycanroc. Just think about it. Lycanroc is
- Heavily promoted (especially for USUM) in out of game material
- is one of Ash's main pokemon in the SM anime
- Got an additional form in USUM, as well as a unique Z move

Lycanroc fits the formula for a popular pokemon. Hopefully that doesn't fade like a lot of other pokemon in the past.

Spoiler

(After writing that I remembered Mimikyu, and that's probably going to be one of the most popular pokemon tbh)

Lycanroc is definitely popular. I haven't watched the anime or played any of the games since Platinum, if I know about a Pokemon from the newer gens, you can consider him popular, lol.

 

[Starcutter]

I honestly want more quadrupeds in smash. so far all that we have had is Ivysaur and Duck Hunt.

I'd be down for Lycanroc or Amaterasu. Or any other 4 legged doggos. I loved Amaterasu in UMVC3, but Duck hunt doesn't do it for me in smash, I would like one that plays more aggressively.

 

[MysticKnives]

Badass archer ghost owl > a fat rhino, a sentient balloon, not-helix, and lewd joke fodder. fite me if you disagree.

What? A pink balloon demon, Gastly in a shell, Horn Staggering Lightningrod-drawing bi-pedal Rhino, and the mutated shelfish > Owl with a hood.

 

[Deleted member]

This thread went to **** kinda fast.

Like my life.

Is it really that necessary to have equal playable representation between Generations? That's what Poke Balls are for

I agree. Let Pokemon handle most of the pokemon, and I say the only Pokemon that should be talked about for now are Decuideye and Incineroar.

だ、だ、大ニュースですっ！！！
25周年のクライマックスは、「ワドルディ」！
なんと！『星のワドルディ25周年』公式サイトがオープンしましたっ！
われわれが主人公の最新作ゲームも続々登場！？
どきどき……要チェックです！https://t.co/dfVk7BJVa7#ワド25周年 #エイプリルフール pic.twitter.com/9EdvkxOoRM

— 星のカービィ (@Kirby_JP) April 1, 2018

Bandana Dee confirmed.

I am a happy guy it is Waddle Dee's 25th Anniversary.
TWENTY FIVE YEARS OF GETTING SUCKED BY KIRBY.

I do not know if this could mean something for Bandanna Dee in Smash for Switch, but it seems like something.

 

[Hinata]

Absolutely definitely not testing April Fools 2018 in here

How dare you make us your guinea pigs?

 

[The Original Robot boy]

This thread went to **** kinda Isfast.

Isn't that kind of normal thing though?

 

[CBO0tz]

Honestly.. I feel like we got enough Pokémon representation, I wouldn't be too surprised, but I wouldn't be super excited.

Decidueye is the only Poke I'd like to see join up with the veteran pokes.

 

[MysticKnives]

I'd totally want more Pokemon. Problem is, the ones I want have pretty much no chance of happening. But that goes for most of my wanted characters in Smash.

I'll always have Ness, Falcon, Puff, and Marth in Smash though.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I feel like if we really look at the list of "possible" Pokemon, it's really next to impossible to actually guess what we're going to get. The standout that everyone talks about is Decidueye, but Decidueye was nowhere near the top in the popularity poll. I suppose Greninja hadn't been at the top of any poll by the time his inclusion was decided, though. But anyways, Sakurai is not required to complete the starter type trio, though many people like to speculate that he will with Decidueye. However if we ignore the starter trio and focus on things along the line of what pokemon are marketed since the announcement of gen 7, the newer ones include Lycanroc (in all its formes though primarily Dusk as of late), Mimikyu, Bewear, Rowlet, and Alolan Vulpix. No Third Stage starters have been marketed very heavily from this generation based on what I've seen. If Sakurai consulted GF when making this decision, there's a very significant chance they suggested Mimikyu or Lycanroc instead, because those guys seem to make an appearance in many pieces of Pokemon marketing. I may be wrong and missing something about whats being marketed, but I pay heavy attention to Pokemon and this is what I've been seeing. The only exception to the third stage gen 7 mon I've seen is Decidueye in Pokken, but that was a recent development and likely had no impact on Smash.

 

[Warchamp7]

How dare you make us your guinea pigs?

It was in the ToS. Shoulda read that thing

I know it's BIG but sometimes that's just how things are and you need to accept it

 

[Cyn]

It was in the ToS. Shoulda read that thing

Who has the time to read 2042 words anyways? That's like.....four pages......geez.

 

[thebadlamp]

I doubt Sakurai would add a Gen 7 Pokémon over a Sceptile or Blaziken or something, especially when considering Gen 8 is right around the corner. TPC might have even designed one of them to be in smash to be more popular (after seeing the success of Greninja). Chances are though, if Sakurai decides to add a new Pokémon (not from Gen 8), he'd just go by what was the highest in the smash ballot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yep, it's all much much bigger now. How fitting.

 

[BluePikmin11]

There's nothing definite on the matter, but if we take Sakurai's words on the matter and the internal slots, he likely was decided sometime early on, potentially after Roy and Ryu's release.

Awakening, it was mentioned in his article about FE's 25th anniversary.

And it's pretty much as he said, if it came 6 months earlier or later from when development started, their characters may've not made it into the game.
​

​

It's kind of weird to see that Sakurai says that an Awakening character would not have been possible if the game were released 6 months earlier, thinking about it more. Does not it being late matter more in the development matters? Where does Smash 4's timespan come into play for Robin's inclusion? Hypothetically, I guess a new FE candidate like Corrin would have been chosen if Fates came out at a nearby time where Sakurai would be able to develop the character for the base game of Smash 4. Now I have more questions...

 

[Hinata]

Ah, yes, the reptile scorned a thousand times over by Sakurai. Truly, this is the only recognition he will ever receive.

 

[Inawordyes]

So, on this blessed day, Riddley me this:

If Ridley finally gets in, will you main him? Or I guess a better question is, with as many different types of movesets we've collectively come up with, or just based on his personality and his size, would his hypothetical playstyle interest you?

 

[kylexv]

Really liking this big update guys. Makes it a lot easier to read posts.

 

[IsmaR]

We've come such a long way from Ridley threads getting banned in Brawl speculation days.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Why did everything get so big!