Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Swamp Sensei]

Remember when Sakurai said he didn't want more than 3 third party characters because he didn't want each of the 4 max players to be able to select a different 3rd party character? Well now theres 6 3rd parties but 8 player Smash. Does this mean the man 3rd parties we will get this time is <=7?

I don't remember that because it's a false quote.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I decided to set up a small collage of potential newcomer characters that I'll probably use on my signature, after Waluigi leaves my account...

1. Toad
2. King K. Rool
3. Bandanna Waddle Dee
4. Buzzwole
5. Rex & Pyra
6. Spring Man
7. Rayman
8. Crash Bandicoot

And for those who are curious, I did edit Pyra's artwork to be less revealing. Of course, it's only the legs and torso that are covered; I saw no reason to censor the arms.

 

[Icedragonadam]

This thread went to **** kinda fast.

If today's bad wait until tomorrow. Trust nothing!

 

[Starcutter]

I wonder if dark pit would have received as much hate if he has a completely original moveset. The only Nintendo character with an original moveset I see getting hate is Corrin, and I’m not sure why on that one.

I think it's because as a character, Corrin isn't noteworthy really. The moveset is the best thing about her, everything else kinda stinks. Not that interesting of a character tbh, a lot of other characters have more personality.

Also notice how I said "her"? That was literally me subconsciously typing that, I guess even my brain doesn't acknowledge MCorrin


But hey guys, Remember Hector? Hector is cool!

 

[BluePikmin11]

I want you guys to respond to this certain scenario:

1. Rayman gets in Smash Switch's base roster, gets a playstyle of utilizing his limbless body for long range melee fighting.
2. ARMS character is too late in the development cycle to make a unique newcomer out of.
3. So, to compromise, they make Spring Man as a last-minute semi-clone of Rayman.

Is this situation a possible scenario, similar to the situation of Ganondorf and Captain Falcon last-minute clone situation in Melee, whose franchises have nothing to do with each other?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Oh goodness, don’t even start the, “Pyra is too sexual” topic again. That is so overblown it’s not even funny.

There’s a Kid Icarus trophy with similar lack of clothing, and Zero Suit Samus herself has a costume in Wii U/3DS that bares just about as much skin. They aren’t going to completely change the design of the character like some propose.

They’ll make her shorts cover up a bit more, but expect to see some skin.

Swimsuit Shulk is also in-game, and he practically shows off more than Pyra does.

 

[Starcutter]

I want you guys to respond to this certain scenario:

1. Rayman gets in Smash Switch's base roster, gets a playstyle of utilizing his limbless body for long range melee fighting.
2. ARMS character is too late in the development cycle to make a unique newcomer out of.
3. So, to compromise, they make Spring Man as a last-minute semi-clone of Rayman.

Is this situation a possible scenario, similar to the situation of Ganondorf and Captain Falcon last-minute clone situation in Melee, whose franchises have nothing to do with each other?

Considering that Ganondorf is literally the only clone that isn't from the franchise the non-clone if from, I think that anything similar to that situation might not happen again.

 

[Morbi]

I want you guys to respond to this certain scenario:

1. Rayman gets in Smash Switch's base roster, gets a playstyle of utilizing his limbless body for long range melee fighting.
2. ARMS character is too late in the development cycle to make a unique newcomer out of.
3. So, to compromise, they make Spring Man as a last-minute semi-clone of Rayman.

Is this situation a possible scenario, similar to the situation of Ganondorf and Captain Falcon last-minute clone situation in Melee, whose franchises have nothing to do with each other?

I suppose it depends on how fun Rayman is. I would not mind too much and Springman is the only character that I "want" this go around. That being said, if Rayman was lame, I would almost prefer just waiting for DLC to be honest.

Considering that Ganondorf is literally the only clone that isn't from the franchise the non-clone if from, I think that anything similar to that situation might not happen again.

Precedent is precedent.

 

[Pakky]

I'm so thirsty for more Kirby DLC.

I wonder if April will have any Nintendo news. I assume Pokemon stuff is coming sometime this spring.

If there is indeed a new DKC I would love another try at the 64 format without all of the banana nonsense also

Replace Chunky with Rool or just make him more interesting but make Rool the main villain again.

I am not a fan of either of the new guys, Fedrick is okay but he doesn't have any personality as far as I know

 

[Chandeelure]

I want you guys to respond to this certain scenario:

1. Rayman gets in Smash Switch's base roster, gets a playstyle of utilizing his limbless body for long range melee fighting.
2. ARMS character is too late in the development cycle to make a unique newcomer out of.
3. So, to compromise, they make Spring Man as a last-minute semi-clone of Rayman.

Is this situation a possible scenario, similar to the situation of Ganondorf and Captain Falcon last-minute clone situation in Melee, whose franchises have nothing to do with each other?

Yeah Sakurai, very cute, now where is Bandana Dee?

 

[Morbi]

Yeah Sakurai, very cute, now where is Bandana Dee?

You would regret asking that once he revealed that Bandana Dee was a last minute clone of Palutena.

 

[Chandeelure]

You would regret asking that once he revealed that Bandana Dee was a last minute clone of Palutena.

I will take it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You would regret asking that once he revealed that Bandana Dee was a last minute clone of Palutena.

Doesn't seem very likely for someone who knows how to use a spear.

 

[Pakky]

Thinking out loud but after seeing what Sonic Mania was all about I intend on getting the physical release.

But here I am excited about Mighty and Ray being the game but that got me thinking. "Why do I hate Shadow?"

I think the reason is, is unlike Meta Knight or Wario he's played too straight and edgy to the point of things not making sense.

He's not secretly just a cute little baby thing like Meta Knight, or goofy yet admirably manly like Wario. He's just dark and edgy in a game full of cartoon animals that eat junk food and collect jewelry.

He doesn't eat chili dogs he isn't dumb, nothing. He shoots human people with real guns and rides motorbikes despite him being able to spindash and skate at high speeds.

I wish they would just reboot the modern series trash the whole thing for the classic series.

I know it won't happen due to fan outcry but man the classic series looks great.

And no I'm not one of those "Hate Sonic's green eyes" sort of dudes but man I grew up on Sonic 3D blast and other than a few choice games (Adventure because of the Chao garden and most of Colors/Generations) that, the worst of the bunch is better than most of the 3D stuff we get now.

 

[Morbi]

Thinking out loud but after seeing what Sonic Mania was all about I intend on getting the physical release.

But here I am excited about Might and Ray being the game but that got me thinking. "Why do I hate Shadow?"

I think the reason is, is unlike Meta Knight or Wario he's played too straight and edgy to the point of things not making sense.

He's not secretly just a cute little baby thing like Meta Knight, or goofy yet admirably manly like Wario. He's just dark and edgy in a game full of cartoon animals that eat junk food and collect jewelry.

He doesn't eat chili dogs he isn't dumb, nothing. He shoots people with real guns and rides motorbikes despite him being able to spindash and skate at high speeds.

I wish they would just reboot the modern series trash the whole thing for the classic series.

I know it won't happen due to fan outcry but man the classic series looks great.

That is actually the very reason I appreciate Shadow. If it were more subverted, he would lose that edge that could cut your soul and what would be the point in that? For a black and red version of Sonic? No. His personality needs to match his color scheme, fam. I am glad he uses real guns and motorbikes because... Well, who else on the Sonic roster can claim that unless we are counting Coldsteel the Edgehog? He does it for the style, not because he wants to go fast. He does not mind taking life slow which is why his assist trophy slows time (canon fact). Beyond that, I will tell you right here, right now that a gun beats spin-dashing. Okay? I am a little concerned that you believe spin-dash is a suitable replacement for an actual firearm. Not going to lie.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Here's some stuff that was planned, but went unused in Smash 4 that could happen in Smash 2018.

Playable Characters

• Ice Climbers
• Rhythm Heaven
• Alph

Stages

• Dr. Mario
• Brain Age

 

[Luminario]

Maybe I should clarify...first of all, i’m by no means saying you can’t support Daisy. If she is your most wanted, go ahead and support her.

However, when I say “moveset” I don’t just mean the aesthetic of it. How does the moveset function? Do flowers just follow her like when she dives in Mario Tennis? If so, that doesn’t tell me anything about how she plays in-game. If she’s a grappler, a trap-setter, a combo setter, or something else then that’s different. But I haven’t seen that yet. I’m, frankly, turned off by the idea because I’ve heard the same stuff with Daisy since pre-Brawl.

I need more than that to be convinced she’s a good idea. Believe me, i’m an incredibly open minded person. I’m a teacher after all, I am shown different points of view daily, and I learn something new everyday. Well, at least that’s what good teachers do.

Having played many games with Daisy in them, and wanting something more out of characters rather than them simply being a “rep” (I HATE the concept of “reps” by the way, just the connotation of it). Don’t give me a representative of a subset of game, give me something interesting that a character can do, that no other characters can do better than the one you’re suggesting.

That’s my inherent problem with Daisy. Anytime I see her brought up, it’s like “She’s another Mario character”. Toad is a pretty iconic/important Mario character in his own right? Toad also isn’t in Smash, but Rosalina and Bowser Jr., two characters with something no other character can do, are in the game and are pretty fun.

I don't know if it'll change your mind, but I do have a Daisy moveset idea.
So in quite a few games now Daisy has had special moves that create a flower field that restricts opponents movements, so that could potentially translate into Smash as either Daisy setting down a flower field to slow walk and running speed, or setting down a flower bud that acts as a stun trap, stunning any enemies that stand on it or in range of the spores it shoots out as it opens. Alongside this Daisy could have a simple ball throwing projectile special, as reference to both the superball from Super Mario Land and the plethora of sports games she's starred in, and she could change the angle of the shot similar to Dedede's Gordo Toss. Couple both these ideas together and you get a character who restricts movement while tacking on damage at range.

For a side special, Daisy could bring out a baseball bat and hold it until B is let go, giving her a reflector, and for a recovery she could use any number of spin-off related elements such as the Flower Glider from Mario Kart or a Strikers Charged Crystal Smash rise-and-fall attack, though my personal choice would be a petal tornado that whisks Daisy upwards with a hitbox similar to Megaman's upair.

For normal attacks, Daisy can share multiple moves and elements with Peach, altered slightly to fit Daisy's personality. Examples being: taking inspiration from Peach's fair for Daisy's Fsmash where she uses her crown like brass knuckles to punch forward, using Peach's Melee up tilt headbutt and up air kick, or using Peach's dash attack only to trip over her dress and fall flat on her face. Peach and Daisy are similar, but I don't think that should be viewed as a detractor when it allows Daisy to be built off of Peach's assets.

So there we go~ I know quite a bit of it isn't exactly unique to Daisy, but I'd say it does suit her.

 

[Pakky]

That is actually the very reason I appreciate Shadow. If it were more subverted, he would lose that edge that could cut your soul and what would be the point in that? For a black and red version of Sonic? No. His personality needs to match his color scheme, fam. I am glad he uses real guns and motorbikes because... Well, who else on the Sonic roster can claim that unless we are counting Coldsteel the Edgehog? He does it for the style, not because he wants to go fast. He does not mind taking life slow which is why his assist trophy slows time (canon fact). Beyond that, I will tell you right here, right now that a gun beats spin-dashing. Okay? I am a little concerned that you believe spin-dash is a suitable replacement for an actual firearm. Not going to lie.

I get you and you're right. I just think its a bit silly to use real firearms when one possesses a body that can plow through metal with ease. Or shoot ki blasts (sometimes?). All of this is subjective mind you but I just find him to be more of meme than a character.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Here's some stuff that was planned, but went unused in Smash 4 that could happen in Smash 2018.

Playable Characters

• Ice Climbers
• Rhythm Heaven
• Alph

Stages

• Dr. Mario
• Brain Age

The Ice Climbers, Chorus Kids and Alph should all be playable in Smash Switch.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Here's achallenge.

Take each third party series represented in Smash and think of a new stage for each of them.

Metal Gear Solid: Mother Base from The Phantom Pain.
Sonic the Hedgehog: Radical Highway, Studiopolis Zone.
Mega Man: Mega Man X's opening stage - Central Highway, was it? Abel City?
Pac-Man: Anything that isn't that MS Paint mess.
Street Fighter: Shadaloo Base (Thailand), Oceania - Volcanic Rim, Air Force Base (Guile's Stage)
Final Fantasy: Planet's Core from FFVII, Ultimecia's Castle from FFVIII or the Highwind airship.
Bayonetta: The town at the base of Mt. Fimbulventr from Bayonetta 2, maybe Paradiso for a broader area.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The Ice Climbers, Chorus Kids and Alph should all be playable in Smash Switch.

Is there a definitive source for Chorus Kids themselves being the specific character planned? Because if not, I'm pretty sure it would be the Tap Trial Girl.

EDIT: I checked. There was never anything suggesting it was The Chorus Men.

 

[N3ON]

I find most "dark counterparts" that are simply a bad attitude and a trip to Hot Topic away from the protagonist, if not creatively bankrupt, overly cliche.

Imo that well has been run ****ing dry.

 

[Morbi]

The Ice Climbers, Chorus Kids and Alph should all be playable in Smash Switch.

I certainly hope not.

Alph genuinely works better as a costume, same as any of the clones, given how little they changed. We would sacrifice, what? Pills, a non-tipper blade, and Zelda's Final Smash? Oh no!

Chorus Kids... Ugh. I have no idea why people want them. Any other Rhythm Heaven character would be fine. But why them? I am just imagining an Ice Climbers trio without the hammer and ice.

Ice Climbers should have been on Smash for Wii U. So, at least we can agree on one thing.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I find most "dark counterparts" that are simply a bad attitude and a trip to Hot Topic away from the protagonist, if not creatively bankrupt, overly cliche.

Imo that well has been run ****ing dry.

Dark and edgy counterparts are pretty popular, which is why they are a recurring trope.

 

[Pakky]

I find most "dark counterparts" that are simply a bad attitude and a trip to Hot Topic away from the protagonist, if not creatively bankrupt, overly cliche.

Imo that well has been run ****ing dry.

That's why I like Wario he's multilayered, he can be goofy like in Wario Ware or manly and goal focused like in the Wario Land games.

Honestly, I always thought Knuckles was a better counterpart to Sonic than Shadow.

Then again that kid over there needs something to put on his DA account, you know the one.

 

[Morbi]

Dark and edgy counterparts are pretty popular, which is why they are a recurring trope.

There are honestly not that many edgelord characters, so people such as myself take what we can get, even if they are just counterparts. Reaper from Overwatch is probably my favorite because, well, ha ha ha... That edge!

 

[BluePikmin11]

Here's some stuff that was planned, but went unused in Smash 4 that could happen in Smash 2018.

Playable Characters

• Ice Climbers
• Rhythm Heaven
• Alph

Stages

• Dr. Mario
• Brain Age

Are those stages for real?!?!?!

*researches on Source Gaming*

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/01/28/smash-4-data-discoveries-round-2/

How have I not heard of this until now?!?!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Thinking out loud but after seeing what Sonic Mania was all about I intend on getting the physical release.

But here I am excited about Mighty and Ray being the game but that got me thinking. "Why do I hate Shadow?"

I think the reason is, is unlike Meta Knight or Wario he's played too straight and edgy to the point of things not making sense.

He's not secretly just a cute little baby thing like Meta Knight, or goofy yet admirably manly like Wario. He's just dark and edgy in a game full of cartoon animals that eat junk food and collect jewelry.

He doesn't eat chili dogs he isn't dumb, nothing. He shoots human people with real guns and rides motorbikes despite him being able to spindash and skate at high speeds.

I wish they would just reboot the modern series trash the whole thing for the classic series.

I know it won't happen due to fan outcry but man the classic series looks great.

And no I'm not one of those "Hate Sonic's green eyes" sort of dudes but man I grew up on Sonic 3D blast and other than a few choice games (Adventure because of the Chao garden and most of Colors/Generations) that, the worst of the bunch is better than most of the 3D stuff we get now.

That is actually the very reason I appreciate Shadow. If it were more subverted, he would lose that edge that could cut your soul and what would be the point in that? For a black and red version of Sonic? No. His personality needs to match his color scheme, fam. I am glad he uses real guns and motorbikes because... Well, who else on the Sonic roster can claim that unless we are counting Coldsteel the Edgehog? He does it for the style, not because he wants to go fast. He does not mind taking life slow which is why his assist trophy slows time (canon fact). Beyond that, I will tell you right here, right now that a gun beats spin-dashing. Okay? I am a little concerned that you believe spin-dash is a suitable replacement for an actual firearm. Not going to lie.

I think it depends on if he can keep those attributes to himself over time while developing as a character - and after seeing his progression on the True Ending in Shadow The Hedgehog to how much he had matured in resolve and demeanor in Sonic 06 (for all it's notoriety) made me accept him warmly as he is.

I think this is also why I couldn't ever like - because he was played too straight and couldn't really stand out well compared many more colorful characters in the game - and knowing how we got likes of Meta Knight, Wario and Shadow before, he just falls flat on his face to me.

 

[N3ON]

Dark and edgy counterparts are pretty popular, which is why they are a recurring trope.

For sure, they're designed to take a popular character and make them "cooler".

It just causes me some degree of exasperation, since I find them lazily derivative. You can make a rival without resorting to the most basic of "dark version" tropes.

 

[Pakky]

I think it depends on if he can keep those attributes to himself over time while developing as a character - and after seeing his progression on the True Ending in Shadow The Hedgehog to how much he had matured in resolve and demeanor in Sonic 06 (for all it's notoriety) made me accept him warmly as he is.

I think this is also why I couldn't ever like - because he was played too straight and couldn't really stand out well compared many more colorful characters in the game - and knowing how we got likes of Meta Knight, Wario and Shadow before, he just falls flat on his face to me.

I think started to turn around a little bit after becoming Viridi's officer but then that's a small dip in comparison to everyone else.

 

[Chandeelure]

Or when edgy characters have even edgier counterparts.

Spoiler

 

[N3ON]

That's why I like Wario he's multilayered, he can be goofy like in Wario Ware or manly and goal focused like in the Wario Land games.

Honestly, I always thought Knuckles was a better counterpart to Sonic than Shadow.

Then again that kid over there needs something to put on his DA account, you know the one.

I agree, they eschew the typical pitfalls and are more inspired counterparts to the protagonists.

Wario almost goes in the opposite direction, really. He's still got a worse disposition (though not the standard stoic/brooding/cynical variety) but they took Mario and gave him an uglier, brighter colour scheme, and made him fat and grotesque. That's like the opposite of "cool", but it worked.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Swimsuit Shulk is also in-game, and he practically shows off more than Pyra does.

Speaking of which, this needs to be an alt of Link

 

[Pakky]

Or when edgy characters have even edgier counterparts.

Spoiler

I cut myself

 

[Danpal65]

Speaking of which, this needs to be an alt of Link
View attachment 140145

Combine that with Mario's topless bathers, Shulk and Zero Suit Samus and we can really have some sort of beach party going on in Smash 5

Just need Isle Delfino to return...

 

[Superyoshiom]

Or when edgy characters have even edgier counterparts.

Spoiler

I'd much prefer Galacta Knight as an edgy clone over Dark Meta Knight.

In all seriousness, I think they should both be alts of Meta Knight.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Shadow was more than just an dark and edgy character in his debut appearance in Sonic Adventure 2 since he was also a pretty tragic character.

 

[Morbi]

Speaking of which, this needs to be an alt of Link
View attachment 140145

After Shulk and the Breath of the Wild design swap, I would be extremely surprised if they wasted the opportunity. I still prefer Link cross-dressing, however.

 

[Chandeelure]

It's almost April Fools, where is my tsunami of fake leaks?!

 

[Danpal65]

Shadow was more than just an edgy character in his debut appearance in Sonic Adventure 2 since he was also a pretty tragic character.

Like 90% of characters in Sonic are just "edgy" versions of characters, so much so that they'd make a dodecahedron feel inadequate.