Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jubileus57]

- Paradiso, On top of the Jet, Fimbulventur

Heavens YES a Paradiso stage would be a most delightful stage if only visually. If we get one with the two Paradiso musics from the first game (which I my most favourite soundtracks ever in any form of media) I am gonna lose it.

 

[T-Hell]

On the topic of fake leaks, watch out. Pokemon started it's April Fools thing early and I don't imagine it was the only one.

Yeah somebody in one of my whatsapp groups passed earlier a bad quality pic which showed the character riding Lapras with a few other water type pokemon swimming along, claiming it was Pokemon Switch. That was just a poor photoshop of Sun&Moon, lmao.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I already, awhile ago, indicated that you were reading far into it with my "again with the semantics." I just meant the first year.

Eh, someone already alluded to its existence. So I could care less. It just means that I am not crazy which is priority number one over procuring it for you, to be quite honest.

No, there is a third possibility that it existed.

Right, but no one called Game and Watch a last minute addition, either.

None of this 'semantics', you were outright WRONG

May I see the earliest we saw this image? This is the first I've heard of it and I doubt it as I've been on the site for a while

Game and Watch is a veteran and for Dark Pit, Dr. Mario and Lucina we know for a fact they were only added as characters late into development based off of interviews which have been talked about here before, in which you WERE there and criticized Sakurai for not keeping his mouth shut

 

[Morbi]

None of this 'semantics', you were outright WRONG

May I see the earliest we saw this image? This is the first I've heard of it and I doubt it as I've been on the site for a while

Game and Watch is a veteran and for Dark Pit, Dr. Mario and Lucina we know for a fact they were only added as characters late into development based off of interviews which have been talked about here before, in which you WERE there and criticized Sakurai for not keeping his mouth shut

Okay, I admit that I was wrong for using a more liberal definition of "beginning," are you happy? That was really not my point. So I am not overly attached to it as you seem to believe.

I cannot even find the image, so I could not date it for you, I will tell you it was before Charizard's reveal, however. You would have to have been around DURING speculation for it to come up as frequently as it did.

Huh? I stated that Sakurai should not berate fans. He can provide insight on his choices all he wants.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Okay, I admit that I was wrong for using a more liberal definition of "beginning," are you happy? That was really not my point. So I am not overly attached to it as you seem to believe.

I cannot even find the image, so I could not date it for you, I will tell you it was before Charizard's reveal, however. You would have to have been around DURING speculation for it to come up as frequently as it did.

Huh? I stated that Sakurai should not berate fans. He can provide insight on his choices all he wants.

He didn't berate fans though, he was talking about the literal children. The casual majority
*grabs megaphone* IS ANYONE ELSE ABLE TO FIND THIS IMAGE OR IS THIS CHUNKY KONG ALL OVER AGAIN?

 

[Morbi]

He didn't berate fans though, he was talking about the literal children. The casual majority
*grabs megaphone* IS ANYONE ELSE ABLE TO FIND THIS IMAGE OR IS THIS CHUNKY KONG ALL OVER AGAIN?

No, you misread it. He implied that anyone that did not understand why clone characters exist were children which could definitely be construed as offensive. He also implied they were free which is blatantly false.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

*grabs megaphone* IS ANYONE ELSE ABLE TO FIND THIS IMAGE OR IS THIS CHUNKY KONG ALL OVER AGAIN?

I literally just googled "Sakurai twitter dark pit" and it was, like, the third image result. Linked to this thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/character-discussion-thread.347464/page-906

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No, you misread it. He implied that anyone that did not understand why clone characters exist were children which could definitely be construed as offensive. He also implied they were free which is blatantly false.

No, that's just you throwing a fit. The man's a petty arse at times but this isn't one of them.
The 'free' thing is they got added without extra cost when they weren't part of the plan. His analogy was getting a free desert at a restaurant and saying "I WANT A MEAT DISH" iirc

I literally just googled "Sakurai twitter dark pit" and it was, like, the third image result. Linked to this thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/character-discussion-thread.347464/page-906

I now acknowledge this image exists. However, morb's still wrong as this isn't marketing but Sakurai's personal twitter. Remember, Dark Pit was still planned as a skin with unique voice lines

 

[Superyoshiom]

I wonder if dark pit would have received as much hate if he has a completely original moveset. The only Nintendo character with an original moveset I see getting hate is Corrin, and I’m not sure why on that one.

 

[KingBroly]

Sakurai hasn't posted any Smash related pics like he did for Smash 4

 

[Superyoshiom]

Sakurai hasn't posted any Smash related pics like he did for Smash 4

I hope we get pic of the days after e3

 

[GaroMaster]

Do you guys think that this is going to be the Smash where we will finally get to 1,000 trophies?

 

[Morbi]

No, that's just you throwing a fit. The man's a petty arse at times but this isn't one of them.
The 'free' thing is they got added without extra cost when they weren't part of the plan. His analogy was getting a free desert at a restaurant and saying "I WANT A MEAT DISH" iirc

I now acknowledge this image exists. However, morb's still wrong as this isn't marketing but Sakurai's personal twitter. Remember, Dark Pit was still planned as a skin with unique voice lines

How am I throwing a fit by pointing out that he was berating, fans? You need to remember, I enjoy clone characters, there would be no reason for me to "throw a fit."

It is a bad analogy for one obvious reason. The game was not free. Perhaps if they were added as DLC, it would stick better.

That was originally what I stated with as "arguing semantics" again, I acknowledged it was not marketing about an hour ago when I stated that the image was on his twitter, Mr. Detective that seemingly cannot read.

Or, in other words, not last minute?

This is just too easy.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Doesn’t this conflict with your previous point of people wanting characters because of wanting characters and not representing things? Like...Daisy representing just sports and not herself? I get why you may not see something in Daisy if you have never played as her that much, but saying that Daisy has no potential comes across as ignorant in my opinion. There are many ways she can use flowers in Smash without it being out of character. Maybe she can trigger an energy sapping flower ala Lips’ Stick if she hits the sweetspots in her attacks? Namco also knows that Daisy is an outstanding pitcher, why not give her a pitching glove for example? Daisy is loud and energetic...why not portray this in her animations when she attacks in a dress. No one really acts like Daisy would in a dress.

Boo got an amiibo because of his iconic enemy status and glow in the dark gimmick.

Maybe I should clarify...first of all, i’m by no means saying you can’t support Daisy. If she is your most wanted, go ahead and support her.

However, when I say “moveset” I don’t just mean the aesthetic of it. How does the moveset function? Do flowers just follow her like when she dives in Mario Tennis? If so, that doesn’t tell me anything about how she plays in-game. If she’s a grappler, a trap-setter, a combo setter, or something else then that’s different. But I haven’t seen that yet. I’m, frankly, turned off by the idea because I’ve heard the same stuff with Daisy since pre-Brawl.

I need more than that to be convinced she’s a good idea. Believe me, i’m an incredibly open minded person. I’m a teacher after all, I am shown different points of view daily, and I learn something new everyday. Well, at least that’s what good teachers do.

Having played many games with Daisy in them, and wanting something more out of characters rather than them simply being a “rep” (I HATE the concept of “reps” by the way, just the connotation of it). Don’t give me a representative of a subset of game, give me something interesting that a character can do, that no other characters can do better than the one you’re suggesting.

That’s my inherent problem with Daisy. Anytime I see her brought up, it’s like “She’s another Mario character”. Toad is a pretty iconic/important Mario character in his own right, right? Toad also isn’t in Smash, but Rosalina and Bowser Jr., two characters with something no other character can do, are in the game and are pretty fun.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I hope we get pic of the days after e3

I highly doubt that he's going back to that after how it was received last time.

 

[Jubileus57]

I wonder if dark pit would have received as much hate if he has a completely original moveset. The only Nintendo character with an original moveset I see getting hate is Corrin, and I’m not sure why on that one.

I imagine it's because they have the unfortunate combination on being 1) yet another Fire Emblem char when there was already criticism over the fact that the series was overrepresented and 2) the most blatant and shameless advertisement character the Smash series has gotten (although I personally am kinda glad they got included, since I loved FE: Fates especially when the Gay Fates hack is installed)

 

[YeppersPeppers]

Just for more clarification, here is the original tweet of the photo dated April 29th, 2013: https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/328869208752521218

He notes in the tweet that the picture has nothing to do with the "game under development" (obviously referring to Smash).

 

[Wyoming]

I highly doubt that he's going back to that after how it was received last time.

Did I miss something? Are you referring to Miiverse comments?

 

[Morbi]

Just for more clarification, here is the original tweet of the photo dated April 29th, 2013: https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/328869208752521218

He notes in the tweet that the picture has nothing to do with the "game under development" (obviously referring to Smash).

Oh, look at that, another lie. Ha ha ha... Clearly one of the most trustworthy individuals. He said "x, x must be true." Never change Smash fans, never change. It gives me the self-esteem boost.

 

[N3ON]

Oh well 2 out of 6 that I like and that's a surprise if you got a switch i recommend at least renting the game it does have DMC familiarity.

It's a surprise that someone hasn't played or doesn't have an interest in every series Nintendo has a hand in? I also haven't played ARMS, not interested.

I don't doubt they're quality games, but there's a myriad of good titles out there; I don't have any interest in these. My gaming time these days is limited anyway, so I dedicate it to games that I actually care about.

 

[Chandeelure]

He didn't berate fans though, he was talking about the literal children. The casual majority
*grabs megaphone* IS ANYONE ELSE ABLE TO FIND THIS IMAGE OR IS THIS CHUNKY KONG ALL OVER AGAIN?

LOL Chunky Kong.

And don't forget Kraid in Smash Run!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Same could be said for Toad, realistically.

I cannot tell if you are serious. Chain Chomp appears playable in, to my knowledge, literally one spin-off game. And Boo, well, actually he is fairly underrated in the same respect that Koopa and Goomba are and I, along with hopefully everyone here, prays we do not get them in Smash because they are generic enemies, not full-fledged characters.

The game-play argument is piss-poor because Sakurai can make something out of nothing, or nothing out of something. One only need to look at the roster for examples of both.

Eh? I personally hated most newcomers to this game, how they played, I mean. Same can be said about Brawl, really. So that is probably just a personal issue. But if someone I did not want into the game was added, I would be mildly frustrated, not going to lie. Especially because there are not many I am opposed to.

I feel that the opposite is true, as in that if Sakurai can make a moveset out of nothing, then why are certain characters like Toad not in the game?

It’s because he found something more interesting and not just thrown together. There are a small handful of criteria that characters need to meet in Sakurai’s eyes, and clearly some do and some don’t.

The argument that he can make a moveset for anything is pretty much, from my point of view, a deflection away from the problem that particular characters simply don’t have that much to them.

I mean really, I don’t think Mario needs another character anyway. On a side note, I don’t think Mario should change to have Capps, as consistency is good for a game like Smash...unless the character themself isn’t very well designed, like Brawl Bowser or Zelda.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Oh, look at that, another lie. Ha ha ha... Clearly one of the most trustworthy individuals. He said "x, x must be true." Never change Smash fans, never change. It gives me the self-esteem boost.

That's right! Never let petty things like "evidence" or "direct quotes from people who made the game" get in the way of your theories!

I wonder if dark pit would have received as much hate if he has a completely original moveset. The only Nintendo character with an original moveset I see getting hate is Corrin, and I’m not sure why on that one.

Yeah, I think it was
1) "ANOTHER FE character??!" syndrome
2) Blatant advertising
3) A bit of a letdown as the last DLC compared to what came before/the final nail in the coffin of missing fan favorites

 

[Morbi]

I feel that the opposite is true, as in that if Sakurai can make a moveset out of nothing, then why are certain characters like Toad not in the game?

It’s because he found something more interesting and not just thrown together. There are a small handful of criteria that characters need to meet in Sakurai’s eyes, and clearly some do and some don’t.

The argument that he can make a moveset for anything is pretty much, from my point of view, a deflection away from the problem that particular characters simply don’t have that much to them.

I mean really, I don’t think Mario needs another character anyway. On a side note, I don’t think Mario should change to have Capps, as consistency is good for a game like Smash...unless the character themself isn’t very well designed, like Brawl Bowser or Zelda.

I am just saying that move-set is probably one of the least important aspects when it comes to intentionally dismissing a character. It only helps, of course, but that has not stopped characters, such as Little Mac, from being added with quite a lot of care. If he sees something in a character, regardless of whether or not they are just a pilot or a character that does not even canonically exist, he is going to make them a move-set.

That's right! Never let petty things like "evidence" or "direct quotes from people who made the game" get in the way of your theories!


Yeah, I think it was
1) "ANOTHER FE character??!" syndrome
2) Blatant advertising
3) A bit of a letdown as the last DLC compared to what came before/the final nail in the coffin of missing fan favorites

It is clearly not a good idea because, well, I am right. Sakurai has to do the whole PR dance, it is important to realize what information is valid, and when someone is saying something because they are unable to tell the truth. Such as the case... with the ballot.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How am I throwing a fit by pointing out that he was berating, fans? You need to remember, I enjoy clone characters, there would be no reason for me to "throw a fit."

It is a bad analogy for one obvious reason. The game was not free. Perhaps if they were added as DLC, it would stick better.

That was originally what I stated with as "arguing semantics" again, I acknowledged it was not marketing about an hour ago when I stated that the image was on his twitter, Mr. Detective that seemingly cannot read.

Or, in other words, not last minute?

This is just too easy.

Telling people to shut their mouths when they say children are children is throwing a fit, yes.
So you get to eat a restaurants for free? It's obvious he meant "Hey thanks for buying the game! By the way, here's three extra characters we managed to squeeze in last minute that won't cost you extra"

He was still a skin with his own dialogue UNTIL LATE INTO DEVELOPMENT how do you miss that crucial detail, not to mention you claimed "He was marketed since the beginning" which could only be more wrong if he outright wasn't in the game. Semantics are minor details, not major details
Yeah, it's VERY easy to just say "I'M RIGHT" and ignore facts

 

[Fenriraga]

If we do get another Smash Run, having bosses show up would be sick. Was really looking forward to that and was kinda sad it didn't happen. Thanks Rumormill.

It'd be even better in a proper Adventure Mode, but hey, I try and keep my expectations low.

 

[Morbi]

Telling people to shut their mouths when they say children are children is throwing a fit, yes.
So you get to eat a restaurants for free? It's obvious he meant "Hey thanks for buying the game! By the way, here's three extra characters we managed to squeeze in last minute that won't cost you extra"

He was still a skin with his own dialogue UNTIL LATE INTO DEVELOPMENT how do you miss that crucial detail, not to mention you claimed "He was marketed since the beginning" which could only be more wrong if he outright wasn't in the game. Semantics are minor details, not major details
Yeah, it's VERY easy to just say "I'M RIGHT" and ignore facts

Okay, now you are just putting words into my mouth. I stated that he should keep his mouth shut if he is unable to do his job, which is representing Nintendo, without acting like, ironically, a little child.

No. I cannot believe this goes over everyone's heads. I buy a meal, or a game. Everything in it, I paid for. Chef Sakurai tells me that the parsley, despite being included with my order, was free. The Chef giving me complementary desert did that outside of the initial purchase. Easy enough to understand? If not, feel free to ask me to dumb it down even further, I am clearly a very patient individual.

Ha ha ha... It is not a crucial detail once you hop off Sakurai and use a bit of common sense, really. However, I am not expecting that out of you. The inherent issue is, if you look back at my first post, I clearly could not give less of a ****. I even told you it did not matter. Had I known you were going to go crazy and misrepresent me constantly, I would have changed the word marketing to, well, I would rephrase it to, "we had information on Dark Pit since the beginning." At the end of the day, Dark Pit was not a last minute addition. Objectively. That is a fact and you yourself admit it. I have nothing further to add.

You are crazy, fam. It is pretty clear I was right and all you can do is desperately cling to my attitude and the context of the word "marketing." I suppose that is what happens when you go against a speculation god, it never really ends well.

 

[Hinata]

If we do get another Smash Run, having bosses show up would be sick. Was really looking forward to that and was kinda sad it didn't happen. Thanks Rumormill.

It'd be even better in a proper Adventure Mode, but hey, I try and keep my expectations low.

Instead of having bosses as stage hazards, just put them in Smash Run and let people fight them that way.

Give 'em their own little themed spot of the map, make it so that when you walk in, it's a 50/50 chance of either fighting the boss, or having to fight your way through a gauntlet of enemies from the same game as the boss.

Imagine walking into a Mega Man themed area, and you either have to fight a bunch of Mega Man enemies, or you have to beat the Yellow Devil.

 

[Jubileus57]

If we do get another Smash Run, having bosses show up would be sick. Was really looking forward to that and was kinda sad it didn't happen. Thanks Rumormill.

It'd be even better in a proper Adventure Mode, but hey, I try and keep my expectations low.

There are so many bosses I'd like to face in an hyppothetical Adventure Mode... I remember back in the pre-Sm4sh days I was hoping to see Koloktos, Sapientia and many others to show up.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Do you guys think that this is going to be the Smash where we will finally get to 1,000 trophies?

As long as 200 of them don't include original characters from Subspace Emissary or a million different Kirby poses. I'd rather take less and got unique original models like they did for Melee.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I imagine it's because they have the unfortunate combination on being 1) yet another Fire Emblem char when there was already criticism over the fact that the series was overrepresented and 2) the most blatant and shameless advertisement character the Smash series has gotten (although I personally am kinda glad they got included, since I loved FE: Fates especially when the Gay Fates hack is installed)

In addition to that, a 6th FE character wasn't highly demanded within the Smash community and Corrin's inclusion had nothing to do with fan demand. Add in to the fact that his game wasn't released yet in the west and Corrin being revealed as one of the last characters, and thus, for all these reasons, Corrin got tons of hate. There is also the "Another anime swordsman!?" people.

 

[FlareHabanero]

In addition to that, a 6th FE character wasn't highly demanded within the Smash community and Corrin's inclusion had nothing to do with fan demand. Add in to the fact that his game wasn't released yet in the west and Corrin being revealed as one of the last characters, and thus, for all these reasons, Corrin got tons of hate. There is also the "Another anime swordsman!?" people.

Also don't forget that Corrin was in the middle of the whole Smash Ballot thing too. Him being wedged between Bayonetta and Cloud made him stand out like a sore thumb.

 

[Jubileus57]

I imagine it's because they have the unfortunate combination on being 1) yet another Fire Emblem char when there was already criticism over the fact that the series was overrepresented and 2) the most blatant and shameless advertisement character the Smash series has gotten (although I personally am kinda glad they got included, since I loved FE: Fates especially when the Gay Fates hack is installed)

In addition to that, a 6th FE character wasn't highly demanded within the Smash community and Corrin's inclusion had nothing to do with fan demand. Add in to the fact that his game wasn't released yet in the west and Corrin being revealed as one of the last characters, and thus, for all these reasons, Corrin got tons of hate. There is also the "Another anime swordsman!?" people.

Also don't forget that Corrin was in the middle of the whole Smash Ballot thing too. Him being wedged between Bayonetta and Cloud made him stand out like a sore thumb.

... And so in the end the poor thing had literally nothing going for them.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The thing with a Corrin is that Sakurai even considered the fact that adding Corrin would add another Fire Emblem character, something he was a bit sketched out about.

What made Sakurai pick Corrin was the unique gameplay concepts, or so I would believe. That and the release of the new game.

I don’t hate the character, as I happened to enjoy Fates. However, in that case, I can see why somebody might be upset that Fire Emblem got another character in between Cloud and Bayonetta.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's achallenge.

Take each third party series represented in Smash and think of a new stage for each of them.

- Stardust Speedway (Sonic CD)
- Sky Lagoon (MMX4)
- Pac-Maze Arrangement
- Ken's Stage (SFA2) for all the potential cameos of other Capcom characters
- Narshe (FFVI)
- Vigrid, City of Deja Vu

 

[BluePikmin11]

Do you think themes will likely play a big role into choosing unique newcomers again, like in the project proposal?

I feel that will be the case for Smash Switch again. I realized this after analyzing Celica's chances more closely.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Remember when Sakurai said he didn't want more than 3 third party characters because he didn't want each of the 4 max players to be able to select a different 3rd party character? Well now theres 6 3rd parties but 8 player Smash. Does this mean the man 3rd parties we will get this time is <=7?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This thread went to **** kinda fast.

 

[Hinata]

This thread went to **** kinda fast.

C'est la vie. We have basically nothing to discuss at this point, so people are just talking about whatever comes to mind.

And uh, "whatever comes to mind" clearly ain't good.

 

[N3ON]

Remember when Sakurai said he didn't want more than 3 third party characters because he didn't want each of the 4 max players to be able to select a different 3rd party character? Well now theres 6 3rd parties but 8 player Smash. Does this mean the man 3rd parties we will get this time is <=7?

I don't actually remember this.