Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

Is anyone throwing a tournament for posters in this thread when the game drops? It’d be a good send-off for pre release speculation, accompanied by the fact I know a handful of people won’t be around here anymore after the 7th.

...really hoping I’d get a chance to face Zinith. All that passion has to translate in-game somehow, right?

Maybe not right away as I have vacation plans (and possibly gigs before then) around that time. Plus, I'm rusty as all hell. But I will most definitely still be around after launch. I'm here for the long haul

 

[osby]

Well it would be for someone like me. For others it would basically be the Platinum Trophy

Also Yoshi vs. Giant Bowser has me curious...

It might not have anyting to do with Yoshi at all. Maybe it's only "KO one fighter 3 times in one match with Giga Bowser" or something.

 

[KMDP]

It might not have anyting to do with Yoshi at all. Maybe it's only "KO one fighter 3 times in one match with Giga Bowser" or something.

It might also be "Successfully dodge an attack from Giga Bowser as Yoshi" or something.

 

[Calane]

You know what influenced Undertale? Touhou Project and EarthBound.
You know what influenced Assassin's Creed? Metal Gear Solid.
You know what influenced PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale? Money. ...And Smash, I guess.

A lot of franchises have been influenced and a lot of franchises have what it takes to be considered for Smash. I'm not trying to **** on Dragon Quest, but it's pretty much undeniable that DQ11's success here in America is similar to the exact same event that GTAV did for the franchise in Japan.

Didn't Dragon Quest 8 do pretty well in the west back then? I'm pretty sure it did, because it's the most popular and well known DQ game over here. I think they even put a costume of Eight in XI because of it.

I also recall hearing that DQ 9 did pretty darn well on the DS as well. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think DQ 11 is the franchise's first success outside of japan. I don't have any numbers to prove it, though. I'm just going by what I've heard.

Also, I'm pretty sure Dragon Quest essentially created the "JRPG" genre. Without it, I don't think Earthbound would even exist to later inspire Undertale. It's probably one of the most influential gaming franchises of all time.

 

[osby]

I might not understand what they say, but I love how all Japanese commentators insist on calling Shizue-san.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Also, I'm pretty sure Dragon Quest essentially created the "JRPG" genre. Without it, I don't think Earthbound would even exist to later inspire Undertale. It's probably one of the most influential gaming franchises of all time.

This is something I don't think a lot of people get. DQ is a genera definer. It didn't just inspire the creation of a few games, it defined many mechanics and ideas that are still in use today in the RPG genera.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

I feel like a lot of this misinformation is spread because weightless rumors are being misconstrued as something bigger.

Yes, Vergeben has said that he heard some stuff about Katalina and whatever, but nothing definitive.

Yes, Papagenos has said he's heard some stuff as well, but as he just clarified, the things he's heard are just rumors.

We gotta take responsibility for ourselves and slow down. The base game isn't even released yet, and this thread makes it feel like we've already jumped to 2020.

 

[Gks1]

In NES Dragon Quest was more popular than Final Fantasy in Japan. Actually worldwide FF is more popular but I think that one of the characters of DQ can in the SSBU.

 

[Knight Dude]

I know it probably wont happen, but the themes from F-Zero GX would be cool in Smash at least for Captain Falcon.

I don't care if some compare it a Christian Rock song.

The Story Mode Credits theme would be even more hype.

 

[Zinith]

I kinda want to do a long term "Favorite Smash Character" tournament similar to what was done a few months ago before E3. Only I want to use a better system and my seeding is a little more particular, and I want some help with it...

So I want to take the fighters we have, cut the Mii Fighters and combine Pokemon Trainer into 1. That would give me 71.

Then put it into a 7 round tourney that may take several weeks. The first round would be the Echo Round where it's the characters vs. their echoes...

Spoiler: Echo Round

vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.

That will put it at a standard 64 contestants. So then the tourney begins, but I'll do something special. I will split it into 8 brackets, one for each of the OG 8 franchises: Super Mario, Donkey Kong, The Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Yoshi, Kirby, Star Fox and Pokemon. All the franchises will be together so it will look something like this:

Spoiler: Brackets

Super Mario Bracket:
vs.
vs.
/vs.
vs.

Donkey Kong Bracket:
vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.

The Legend of Zelda Bracket:
vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.

Metroid Bracket:
/vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.

Yoshi Bracket:
vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.

Kirby Bracket:
vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.

Star Fox Bracket:
vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.

Pokemon Bracket:
vs.
vs.
vs.
vs.

I'm not sure what the rest of the seeding will be. I want franchises to be closer together and I'd like the 3rd parties to go against each other in 4 battles and all of them are in separate brackets. For example:

Spoiler: 3rd Party battles

vs.(Sega in one bracket)
vs./(Konami in another bracket)
vs./(Capcom in another)
vs.(Miscellaneous in another)

I have NO goddamn clue what to do...

Edit: Oh, and DLC is not included. Sorry

 

[Kawaki&Boruto98]

if the cutscene they showed us is the only cutscene in the adventure mode i'm gonna be disappointed

 

[Knight Dude]

if the cutscene they showed us is the only cutscene in the adventure mode i'm gonna be disappointed

Can't say for sure at the moment. Maybe there'll be one at the end. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's only the one.

 

[zeldasmash]

I know it probably wont happen, but the themes from F-Zero GX would be cool in Smash at least for Captain Falcon.

I don't care if some compare it a Christian Rock song.

The Story Mode Credits theme would be even more hype.

What they should is remake some F-Zero Climax tunes and put them in this game. Some of the arrangements for F-Zero Climax are killer (Silence, Illusion, Mute City in particular).

 

[KMDP]

I feel like a lot of this misinformation is spread because weightless rumors are being misconstrued as something bigger.

Yes, Vergeben has said that he heard some stuff about Katalina and whatever, but nothing definitive.

Yes, Papagenos has said he's heard some stuff as well, but as he just clarified, the things he's heard are just rumors.

We gotta take responsibility for ourselves and slow down. The base game isn't even released yet, and this thread makes it feel like we've already jumped to 2020.

Something I thought about the other day about Smash is that, after the Direct, people have started talking about DLC, as if there's nothing more to talk about regarding the base game (at least until it comes out).

But that's not the case, there's quite a lot that can be talked about about the base game.

For instance:

• Who, or what, is Galeem?
• What's going to happen in World of Light? Will there be more cutscenes beyond the Opening one (and presumably, the ending)?
• Will there be Action Stages in World of Light?
• What order are the Player Characters going to be unlocked in in World of Light? Do you have a choice or is it purely linear?
• What Spirit Battles are we going to get? What can we come up with based on what we've already been shown?
• What are the non-Adventure Mode unlock conditions for characters going to be?
• Are there any other new Mii Costumes in the game that we weren't shown?
• Is Stadium mode really gone, or did Sakurai just figure it wasn't worth showing us because it's pretty much the same as last time?
• What Challenges can we expect to see?
• What Classic Mode routes do we think we'll get, now that we know the full roster?

 

[vaanrose]

I honestly think that's a good reason for it to be Erdrick. It hasn't really happened before, so it'd make the occasion extra special.

I said it before, but each new franchise that gets added into Smash is always represented with a protagonist first. I don't recall a single time where a new series was introduced into Smash with a generic enemy or side-character. Not saying that convention couldn't be broken, but I don't see a good reason to not pick Erdrick to rep the franchise. If not him, the only other ones that make sense are Eight or the Luminary from 11.

9 times out of 10, the main character is, if not the de facto most popular character from the game, among the most popular characters from the game. This is true for almost every franchise in Smash (lest we forget Pikachu was that 10th). But this is not the case for Dragon Quest, and never has been. Erdrick is definitely the most popular main character, and I doubt anyone would be upset by him being the DQ choice, but the DQ franchise is one where the side characters have always been significantly more popular than the leads.

I think the fact that most franchises get in with a protagonist first is more because the protagonist is usually a decently popular choice in their own right, and less because of some rule that franchises have to be represented by their protagonists.

 

[Calane]

9 times out of 10, the main character is, if not the de facto most popular character from the game, among the most popular characters from the game. This is true for almost every franchise in Smash (lest we forget Pikachu was that 10th). But this is not the case for Dragon Quest, and never has been. Erdrick is definitely the most popular main character, and I doubt anyone would be upset by him being the DQ choice, but the DQ franchise is one where the side characters have always been significantly more popular than the leads.

I think the fact that most franchises get in with a protagonist first is more because the protagonist is usually a decently popular choice in their own right, and less because of some rule that franchises have to be represented by their protagonists.

I see. It was just an observation on my part, but I guess I must have sounded pretty stupid. I should just leave things to people who know what they're talking about. I'll try to think more before I post in the future.

 

[ZephyrZ]

9 times out of 10, the main character is, if not the de facto most popular character from the game, among the most popular characters from the game. This is true for almost every franchise in Smash (lest we forget Pikachu was that 10th). But this is not the case for Dragon Quest, and never has been. Erdrick is definitely the most popular main character, and I doubt anyone would be upset by him being the DQ choice, but the DQ franchise is one where the side characters have always been significantly more popular than the leads.

I think the fact that most franchises get in with a protagonist first is more because the protagonist is usually a decently popular choice in their own right, and less because of some rule that franchises have to be represented by their protagonists.

I would like to point to Villager as a counterpoint. Tom Nook and K.K.Slider are far more popular and recognizable, yet they chose the generic avatar character seemingly because he was the player character. Granted neither Tom Nook nor K.K.Slider were actually playable in any Animal Crossing game as far as I'm aware but I still think it's worth noting.

Of course I try not to put too much faith in "fan rules" because they can easily be broken on a whim but I do get the impression they try to prioritize main protagonists or mascots over side characters.

 

[Zinith]

Here's the "Zinith approved best DQ rep":

 

[osby]

I would like to point to Villager as a counterpoint. Tom Nook and K.K.Slider are far more popular and recognizable, yet they chose the generic avatar character seemingly because he was the player character. Granted neither Tom Nook nor K.K.Slider were actually playable in any Animal Crossing game as far as I'm aware but I still think it's worth noting.

Of course I try not to put too much faith in "fan rules" because they can easily be broken on a whim but I do get the impression they try to prioritize main protagonists or mascots over side characters.

I can't really remember any instances where side characters got in over main ones, unless they appeared multiple times. I guess Pikachu over Pokemon Trainer is a thing but Pokemon Trainer never really become playable on their own, so there's also that.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh boy, am I seeing my daily dose of "actually [input highly influential and important game that's not represented in Smash with a fighter yet] isn't that big of a deal" from this thread already?

 

[osby]

Oh boy, am I seeing my daily dose of "actually [input highly influential and important game that's not represented in Smash with a fighter yet] isn't that big of a deal" from this thread already?

Considering some people used to say PAC-MAN only got in due to Bandai-Namco helping the game, this one is pretty mild.

 

[Knight Dude]

The rumors for one DLC character being a Square-Enix character, but not knowing for sure who it is makes things interesting to say the least.

Sora would probably be the character that'd make the most people happy. Dragon Quest has the most prestige behind it, though I don't think any of their protagonists are quite as popular as Cloud is for Final Fantasy, so taking an iconic side Character/Monster isn't too far fetched. Though Erdrick is still notable enough in his own right.

Then you got Final Fantasy in general. I doubt we'll get much content from them, but there's still the slight chance of another FF protagonist like Terra. Or another popular FF7 character like Tifa or Sephiroth. Crono, who's had a fairly strong following and would have less hassle than Sora I imagine but honestly has less going for him than either FF and DQ, but he'd be one of the cooler choices.

For their western IPs, Lara Croft would the most obvious, she's probably the biggest icon of said Western-owned SE characters. And even before some of the crazier 3rd party characters, she received some support, just less so than Crash for example. But given how notable she is, it'd make a lot of sense. Mario vs Sonic/Mega Man/Pac-Man, Link vs Cloud are all dream matches. Samus vs Lara is another one of those.

Hitman's popular, but I doubt Agent 47 would be the first choice, but who knows. Adam Jensen would be cool. Any ************ with shades built into his cyborg face has to be.

Geno's a weird case because it doesn't seem like either company wants to do something substantial with him. Despite the fact that him being connected to both companies.

 

[Zinith]

Technically Ness isn't the main character of the Earthbound games. Only one of them. Lucas is just as much of the main protagonist of the series as he is...

Then there's Fire Emblem...

 

[Kawaki&Boruto98]

this guy was so fitting to be a fighter in ultimate. first he's a new nintendo IP second he's literally a fighter unlike isabelle

 

[Kawaki&Boruto98]

Square-Enix character,

noctis from FF15!!!!!!

 

[Zinith]

noctis from FF15!!!!!!

Don't double post fella. Edit your message instead...

 

[Knight Dude]

Technically Ness isn't the main character of the Earthbound games. Only one of them. Lucas is just as much of the main protagonist of the series as he is...

Then there's Fire Emblem...

I mean yeah. But those two are still lead characters in their singular game. It's not like we're expecting leads of an entire franchise since we're talking Dragon Quest. Hell, Fire Emblem is comprised pretty much entirely of lead characters. With Chrom and Lucina, the echoes being technically exceptions, being nearly as important as Robin.

this guy was so fitting to be a fighter in ultimate. first he's a new nintendo IP second he's literally a fighter unlike isabelle

A shame too, since I really wanted him to be a fighter. I guess there's always next game. Either that or someone other than the lead ARMS character being picked, but I have some doubts about that.

 

[KMDP]

The rumors for one DLC character being a Square-Enix character, but knowing for sure who it is makes things interesting to say the least.

Sora would probably be the character that'd make the most people happy. Dragon Quest has the most prestige behind it, though I don't think any of their protagonists are quite as popular as Cloud is for Final Fantasy, so taking an iconic side Character/Monster isn't too far fetched. Though Erdrick is still notable enough in his own right.

Then you got Final Fantasy in general. I doubt we'll get much content from them, but there's still the slight chance of another FF protagonist like Terra. Or another popular FF7 character like Tifa or Sephiroth. Crono, who's had a fairly strong following and would have less hassle than Sora I imagine but honestly has less going for him than either FF and DQ, but he'd be one of the cooler choices.

For their western IPs, Lara Croft would the most obvious, she's probably the biggest icon of said Western-owned SE characters. And even before some of the crazier 3rd party characters, she received some support, just less so than Crash for example. But given how notable she is, it'd make a lot of sense. Mario vs Sonic/Mega Man/Pac-Man, Link vs Cloud are all dream matches. Samus vs Lara is another one of those.

Hitman's popular, but I doubt Agent 47 would be the first choice, but who knows. Adam Jensen would be cool. Any ************ with shades built into his cyborg face has to be.

Geno's a weird case because it doesn't seem like either company wants to do something substantial with him. Despite the fact that him being connected to both companies.

I'd say the choices boil down to:

Tifa or Sephiroth

I'd say it can't be any FF rep other than those two (except maybe Moogle or Chocobo), because they've made their bed with Final Fantasy in Smash being specifically FF7 and not just Final Fantasy in general.​

Sephiroth has the caveat that they must accommodate his giant sword, it's certainly doable, but Tifa would be way easier, not that difficulty would stop Sakurai.​

Lara Croft

Lara Croft is a house-hold name, almost everyone with any kind of video game knowledge at all has at least heard of her.​

Sora

Kingdom Hearts is an incredibly popular series, there are legal arguments to be made concerning Disney, but who knows how that might play out.​

A Dragon Quest representative (either Slime, Erdrick or a popular party member)

Dragon Quest has a prestige like almost no other, even if the West couldn't really care less about it. Also, it'd get the Toriyama artstyle into the game...​

Crono

Chrono Trigger is generally considered one of the best Video Games ever made, nuff said. XD​

Geno

Geno is the darling of the hardcore fanbase, requested for at least a decade and a half, if not longer. Unfortunately, hardcore appeal is pretty much all he has going for him at this point.​

 

[ZephyrZ]

A shame too, since I really wanted him to be a fighter. I guess there's always next game. Either that or someone other than the lead ARMS character being picked, but I have some doubts about that.

I could see Ribbon Girl being picked, it felt like she was pushed really heavily when it came to advertising Arms and was the game's "other mascot". Of course I wouldn't count on her as DLC at all anyway for the same reason we know we aren't getting Rex and Pyra. Not unless we get a round 2 of DLC, that is.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai chooses the main character from each game because they're the ones who better represent the core gameplay from their own series. The only time we've had a character join before the protagonist was with Robin in Smash 4 but FE already had other characters.
I mean, I wouldn't mind a secondary getting in before the main one but going with the protagonist is a sure choice that pleases all fans of that game while a secondary one could potentially get some less than positive reactions.

Also, Springman is definitely happen next game because Sakurai can't satisfy his own need to keep powercreeping character reach.
"Shulk has the most range of any fighter in Smash"
"Actually, Corrin has, but only in their FSmash"
"Lmao Simon"

 

[Wiziliz]

The big thing is that I doubt anyone outside the development team knows the full roster, but I don't have an issue with Ayumi or Travis as individual characters.

Travis is Nintendo exclusive (I think), has already had two games, and has an upcoming third. That wouldn't surprise me.

Ayumi WOULD surprise me, but that's the point; your typical unexpected character. And unlike the other ones I see get tossed around, like Excitebiker, I almost NEVER see anyone say Ayumi, so it'd truly be surprising.

I think they could pull a Bayonneta with Travis, I think at this point, if No More Heroes keeps going, there's a good chance that it will be Nintendo exclusive, however, the two Wii games were ported to PS3/Xbox 360, unlike Bayonetta where it was the Xbox 360/PS3 games ported to the Wii U/Switch, so he's not a Nintendo exclusive character yet. Not sure what to say with Travis Strikes Again, as it's just a spin-off.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Check the thread.

Nothing but pure adoration and fanservice in the house of Sakurai.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Knight Dude]

I could see Ribbon Girl being picked, it felt like she was pushed really heavily when it came to advertising Arms and was the game's "other mascot". Of course I wouldn't count on her as DLC at all anyway for the same reason we know we aren't getting Rex and Pyra. Not unless we get a round 2 of DLC, that is.

Maybe, but if people are getting either salty/smug that Rex got only a Mii costume and isn't playable, then it has to apply to Ribbon Girl too. Unless you think both have an honest shot later down the line.

 

[The_Naraotor]

The rumors for one DLC character being a Square-Enix character, but knowing for sure who it is makes things interesting to say the least.

Sora would probably be the character that'd make the most people happy. Dragon Quest has the most prestige behind it, though I don't think any of their protagonists are quite as popular as Cloud is for Final Fantasy, so taking an iconic side Character/Monster isn't too far fetched. Though Erdrick is still notable enough in his own right.

Then you got Final Fantasy in general. I doubt we'll get much content from them, but there's still the slight chance of another FF protagonist like Terra. Or another popular FF7 character like Tifa or Sephiroth. Crono, who's had a fairly strong following and would have less hassle than Sora I imagine but honestly has less going for him than either FF and DQ, but he'd be one of the cooler choices.

For their western IPs, Lara Croft would the most obvious, she's probably the biggest icon of said Western-owned SE characters. And even before some of the crazier 3rd party characters, she received some support, just less so than Crash for example. But given how notable she is, it'd make a lot of sense. Mario vs Sonic/Mega Man/Pac-Man, Link vs Cloud are all dream matches. Samus vs Lara is another one of those.

Hitman's popular, but I doubt Agent 47 would be the first choice, but who knows. Adam Jensen would be cool. Any ************ with shades built into his cyborg face has to be.

Geno's a weird case because it doesn't seem like either company wants to do something substantial with him. Despite the fact that him being connected to both companies.

Yeah for me Lara Croft makes sense though I am not Nintendo and Sakurai.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

though I am not Nintendo and Sakurai.

Indeed we are not, friendo. Indeed we are not.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Knight Dude]

Watch when we get the dude from the Bouncer instead.

 

[Calane]

Huh, seems like there's some people that actually agree with my observation about main characters always being chosen first... How about that.

And here I was thinking I was about to get told off by everyone and made a fool out of. Guess I shouldn't back down from my views so easily.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

this guy was so fitting to be a fighter in ultimate. first he's a new nintendo IP second he's literally a fighter unlike isabelle

Just because Isabelle doesn't fight canonically doesn't mean she can't fight period, a lot of characters in Smash weren't exactly fighters in their home series so that factor doesn't matter.

 

[Knight Dude]

Huh, seems like there's some people that actually agree with my observation about main characters always being chosen first... How about that.

And here I was thinking I was about to get told off by everyone and made a fool out of. Guess I shouldn't back down from my views so easily.

Even if you did, stick to your guns. Most people have gotten BTFO'd at least once anyway.

 

[Zinith]

Huh, seems like there's some people that actually agree with my observation about main characters always being chosen first... How about that.

And here I was thinking I was about to get told off by everyone and made a fool out of. Guess I shouldn't back down from my views so easily.

Yes, don't back down, but also be wary of getting worked up.

Trust me on this