Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MrPWNGER]

Nevermind.

 

[Wiziliz]

If Sakurai can make a ****ing potted plant interesting, I have no doubt he can make Steve interesting.

It's not that I doubt the moveset, I'm sure that'd be great, better than some of the characters we have. It's just that Steve is such a boring character with no personality. It's not even a matter of seeing him getting in over others like Banjo-Kazooie, it's just a matter of seeing him. I like the idea of Minecraft music, a Minecraft stage, a Minecraft Assist Trophy or a Spirit, but I dislike the thought of seeing Steve as a playable character. Hopefully if he is, he's the first shown, so I know not to buy the pass.
Speaking of, does everyone think that there will be a second, third and potentially fourth pass, or is this the last one?

 

[Idon]

Been out of the loop. What's going on about Sora?

Spawn Wave is pretty adamant about Sora being revealed during the VGAs which premiere a day after Ultimate's launch.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Spawn Wave is pretty adamant about Sora being revealed during the VGAs which premiere a day after Ultimate's launch.

Isn't it before? Video Game Awards happens on the 6th of December. Ultimate is coming out on the 7th.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sakurai said they haven't started work on any of the DLC characters, and that they won't until they've finished the game. Do people really think getting a DLC character reveal in 1 month from now is likely? I could maybe see them reveal the character ala Mewtwo, where it's just showing a model, but if it's someone like Sora I'd imagine they'd want to go big and reveal them through a legit trailer. I guess there is the chance Sakurai wasn't being honest with us, but I don't want to jump to that conclusion.

 

[Robertman2]

Also, I'd like to address something:

While I was originally the one who said that DLC was planned when the original roster was decided in December 2015, I've since come to doubt that statement a little more. @The DanMan051's argument about context got me thinking that we (read: I) might've taken the statement too far in applying it, and I'd like this to be known before others go spreading it around the internet (I'm sure it already is, Sakurai help us all).

Obviously, DLC has been in planning stages for a while, seeing as both Minecraft and Square Enix content have been known about for months but have yet to appear in the game, which signifies that they'll likely be DLC. However, Senrou_Hitagi's comments about recent talks between Nintendo and Cygames (occurring about 1-2 months ago) make me think that DLC could've been planned much later than December 2015, or at the very least plans for DLC were flexible up until negotiations began. Ultimately I believe that DLC wasn't planned out as a whole, but characters were planned individually as negotiations occurred. This would explain why information about certain DLC elements (Minecraft, Square Enix, Cygames) came out at different points, because nothing was known until negotiations either ended (in the case of Minecraft, Pre-E3, and Square Enix around September) or began (in the case of Cygames, around October, which makes it absolutely last second in terms of negotiation and planning if Senrou is to be believed and Katalina is going to happen).

What I'm saying is that negotiations, and therefore planning, for DLC could've occurred anywhere from December 2015 to October 2018, with different characters being planned at different times. I wouldn't necessarily give up hope for more recent characters (i.e. Rex and Pyra, Bethesda Rep, Crash Bandicoot, etc.), but I also wouldn't get them up either.

Nintendo characters seem to be facing an uphill battle as well, given Verge's other statement that Sakurai prioritizes third party characters for DLC over first party characters.

I'll make sure to pour one out to the fans of whoever got cucked out of Smash by Katalina.

Negotiations with Cygames could have just started recently because Katalina is planned for a second season of DLC

 

[Shroob]

They said they haven't started work on any of the DLC characters, and that they won't until they've finished the game. Do people really think getting a DLC character reveal in 1 month from now is likely? I could maybe see them reveal the character ala Mewtwo, where it's just showing a model, but if it's someone like Sora I'd imagine they'd want to go big and reveal them through a legit trailer. I guess there is the chance Sakurai wasn't being honest with us, but I don't want to jump to that conclusion.

"What am I, chopped liver?"

 

[MyDude213]

Never played a KH game so what does Sora do? All I know is he's BFFs with Mickey, I think?

Like I said earlier, not a Disney kid.

He can do a lot to say the least his kit is pretty massive in his games to the point that by the end of every game you basically pretty much delete whole armies in seconds by the end of a combo by yourself not even counting your party. Could write an assay on how much **** he could honestly do but I suggest just looking at videos of his games or actually playing them. The games are pretty easy to come by these days.

 

[Robertman2]

So the newcomers this time are kind of underwhelming for me. Ridley and KRool I'm hyped for, but man I wanted Skull Kid so bad. They did him and many other highly requested fighters dirty. And if these DLC rumors are true, then it really isn't about being an all-star anymore, especially with Piranha Plant being our first taste... if Steve and some girl from a mobile game get into Smash before any worthy Nintendo all-stars, then I seriously believe that Nintendo may have changed for the worse after Iwata died. Those character choices are so... cold. It's not that I'm not confident that Sakurai can't make fun and interesting movesets from these characters, it's just that they sincerely do not deserve to be in Smash bros.

Skull Kid isn't anywhere near as deserving as Steve. He's just another Zelda bandwagon character.

 

[NineS]

Also, I'd like to address something:

While I was originally the one who said that DLC was planned when the original roster was decided in December 2015, I've since come to doubt that statement a little more. @The DanMan051's argument about context got me thinking that we might've taken the statement too far in applying it, and I'd like this to be known before others go spreading it around the internet (I'm sure it already is, Sakurai help us all).

Obviously, DLC has been in planning stages for a while, seeing as both Minecraft and Square Enix content have been known about for months but have yet to appear in the game, which signifies that they'll likely be DLC. However, Senrou_Hitagi's comments about recent talks between Nintendo and Cygames (occurring about 1-2 months ago) make me think that DLC could've been planned much later than December 2015, or at the very least plans for DLC were flexible up until negotiations began. Ultimately I believe that DLC wasn't planned out as a whole, but characters were planned individually as negotiations occurred. This would explain why information about certain DLC elements (Minecraft, Square Enix, Cygames) came out at different points, because nothing was known until negotiations either ended (in the case of Minecraft, Pre-E3, and Square Enix around September) or began (in the case of Cygames, around October, which makes it absolutely last second).

What I'm saying is that negotiations, and therefore planning, for DLC could've occurred anywhere from December 2015 to October 2018, with different characters being planned at different times.

You know, I've been bringing this up an awful lot. I mean, a lot.

Spoiler

If this is the case, then it opens the possibility to characters after 2016. This means that not all of the DLC characters were planned as Sakurai originally said in an interview before the direct in which he said the opposite. I hope this is the case, but the question for me is whether it's 2B or not 2B.

It's odd. In the recent direct during Rex's Mii outfit bit, Sakurai said DLC was planned with the base roster, eliminating the possibility for anyone from a game after 2016

But in an interview a few months before that, he said he hadn't even begun thinking about DLC and would wait to finish ultimate before getting started on thinking about characters, opening the possibility to recent characters.

He's lying about one of these two, but which?

So, besides the fact that the DLC fighters could have potentially been chosen since 2015/2016 assuming he wasn't lying here, and he was lying that time in an interview he said they hadn't even thought about them yet and 2B would have little to no chance for round 1 of DLC,

There's a lot more quotes, but I don't want to bombard you more. Granted, I brought this up in a different manner than you have.

Warning: Lots of 2B propaganda

 

[staindgrey]

Or atleast her artwork. Corrin/Inklings have character portraits for both genders yet Robin doesn’t

You mean the full renders? Robin does.

Spoiler: And it's awesome.

 

[Starbound]

The games are pretty easy to come by these days.

I would if I owned anything that could play them.

 

[GoeGoe]

This isn't necessarily proof, but if Geno were to get in, wouldn't it have made more sense for him to be in the base roster? I really couldn't see him making much of a profit for DLC. Square Enix wouldn't have anything to gain from it, either.

probably kept for Ninty's Online service and Fighter's pass deal.

source

He just went for Cloud. Cloud had NOTHING to do with GENO, nothing at all, NADA
You missed the bait picture

That's not a proof that it had nothing to do with Geno, or particually being a door opener. It's just an interview, you're free to think he went for Cloud as pure fan service. And if you think so, then that's why Geno's in *wink*. And I'll quote from that iterview:
"Nomura: When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all." *wink, wink*
and a plus, that doesn't add a thing to your Sora situation, NADA.
Yeah maybe that sheebow ate it.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

BUT WHICH SORA THO
I swear we better get his KH3 version

KH3 Sora is best.
KH2 Sora is good as well.
KH1 Sora is...okay I guess. Outdated, but okay.
We don't speak of KH3D Sora.
And no. We definitely do not speak of KH:COM Sora.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Fox was also a Spirit, I believe.
Only he had sunglasses or soemthing of the like...?

In the stream I also saw Super Sonic.

The spirits mode is looking quite a bit more fun than I expected. There is more to it than it seemed. After the modes in brawl and 4, I just figured it would be gimmicky.
Which, it is, but it looks like the fun kind of gimmick now.

Classic mode being tailored to the source material of each fighter has me wondering how much thought was actually put into spirits, world of light and classic. I understand now why they didn’t have time for more characters and DLC is basically a requirement to make the roster any bigger in the time he and his team had for Ultimate.

World of light is in the Spirits section and it looks like the actual spirits mode applies accrued spirits to your choices in World of Light.

The shop in the vault has mii costumes in addition to music and some other things that I didn’t memorize.

The help section is massive. Even for characters, the tips shown on the direct can be opened for further information. I can’t wait until someone translates all that was seen tonight.

Everything looks gorgeous.

 

[osby]

So the newcomers this time are kind of underwhelming for me. Ridley and KRool I'm hyped for, but man I wanted Skull Kid so bad. They did him and many other highly requested fighters dirty. And if these DLC rumors are true, then it really isn't about being an all-star anymore, especially with Piranha Plant being our first taste... if Steve and some girl from a mobile game get into Smash before any worthy Nintendo all-stars, then I seriously believe that Nintendo may have changed for the worse after Iwata died. Those character choices are so... cold. It's not that I'm not confident that Sakurai can't make fun and interesting movesets from these characters, it's just that they sincerely do not deserve to be in Smash bros.

You don't decide who deserves to be in Smash, though. And it's not like Sakurai can make every single requested first party character playable, anyway.

EDIT: Smash wasn't about all-stars since the moment we got Jigglypuff, btw.

 

[NineS]

In the stream I also saw Super Sonic.

The spirits mode is looking quite a bit more fun than I expected. There is more to it than it seemed. After the modes in brawl and 4, I just figured it would be gimmicky.
Which, it is, but it looks like the fun kind of gimmick now.

Classic mode being tailored to the source material of each fighter has me wondering how much thought was actually put into spirits, world of light and classic. I understand now why they didn’t have time for more characters and DLC is basically a requirement to make the roster any bigger in the time he and his team had for Ultimate.

World of light is in the Spirits section and it looks like the actual spirits mode applies accrued spirits to your choices in World of Light.

The shop in the vault has mii costumes in addition to music and some other things that I didn’t memorize.

The help section is massive. Even for characters, the tips shown on the direct can be opened for further information. I can’t wait until someone translates all that was seen tonight.

Everything looks gorgeous.

I agree.

But I fear the worst for Shroob
It reminds me of a Gacha game, and we all know how those can work wonders on certain people. Guilty as charged.

 

[MyDude213]

I would if I owned anything that could play them.

Well there's one game on the gameboy 2 on the regular DS and one on the 3ds if you own any of those. rest are on ps4 as collections

 

[staindgrey]

Fox was also a Spirit, I believe.
Only he had sunglasses or soemthing of the like...?

That's James McCloud, his dad.

AKA the easiest costume ever that Sakurai for some reason has never, ever decided to use. Just put sunglasses on the damn guy.

 

[Shroob]

I agree.

But I fear the worst for Shroob
It reminds me of a Gacha game, and we all know how those can work wonders on certain people. Guilty as charged.

pft.

You merely adopted the gacha.

I was born in it, molded by it.

 

[IceKitsune]

Fox was also a Spirit, I believe.
Only he had sunglasses or soemthing of the like...?

That was his father James McCloud.

Edit: Ninja'd

 

[Starbound]

I agree.

But I fear the worst for Shroob
It reminds me of a Gacha game, and we all know how those can work wonders on certain people. Guilty as charged.

Switch Pro is going to have a special feature in the base where you just swipe your credit card for Smash coins.

 

[NineS]

That's James McCloud, his dad.

AKA the easiest costume ever that Sakurai for some reason has never, ever decided to use. Just put sunglasses on the damn guy.

That was his father James McCloud.

Edit: Ninja'd

Should've known there was something shady about him.

hah. dad jokes. i'm not a father. what's a father?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

95% of guesses that anyone with basic insider knowledge could pick out?

I predicted we would get simon Belmont and Richter as an echo. I guess that makes me a leaker

Hewas wrong about fighter z too. If he was credible he would have said PP will be a fighter or the SE character is DLC instesd he gave vague and unclear answers like oh decidueye wont ne the fighter. Lmao

He is a fraud but his fanboys will defend him forever I guess

Vergeben had plenty of information that basic insiders did not. Isaac as an AT, the Square Enix Rep, and the Piranha Plant video all immediately come to mind.

Things like Incineroar, Isabelle, and Ken being in and Spirits replacing trophies would classify "basic insider knowledge," or things that many people knew.

 

[RyuhoFox]

Sore honestly would likely be a magic swordsman. Has a bunch of different moves with his keyblades, has team mates which could be referenced, has different types of magic, has transformations that sometimes gives him new abilities like shooting magic shots with his blade or dual wielding, flow motion could be used but might be hard to implement, in 3 he can just transform his blade into other things too.
Sora is just gushing moveset potential honestly.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Never played a KH game so what does Sora do? All I know is he's BFFs with Mickey, I think?

Like I said earlier, not a Disney kid.

Sora has a lot of powers. I likely can't cover them all, but here are some.

• Magic, including
  • Fire
  • Ice
  • Thunder/Electricity
  • Wind
  • Gravity
  • Time
  • Magnetism
  • Barriers (named Reflect)
  • Healing Magic
• A variety of acrobatics, including Flow Motion, which is kinda ridiculous
• Oh yeah he can also teleport
• The ability to Glide and Air Dash
• A variety of physical attacks, including most of these
• Drive Forms, which completely switch up his physical and magic movesets and (some of which) allow him to dual wield
  • Derivative of this are Keyblade Transformations, which provide this effect as well
    • Sora can also switch Keyblades on the fly, allowing for multiple transformations to be used within one battle
• Shotlocks, which are essentially targeted Final Smash attacks
• Attraction Flow, which allows him to attack you with Disney Rides. Yes, you read that right.
• Limits, which are also a type of targeted Final Smash (most of which involve Disney characters, but some of which involve either him alone or with another KH character, so it's possible for them to happen in Smash)
• He can also hit the sickest dab of all time.

Here's a writeup of his abilities in general. It's crazy how much moveset potential Sora has.

Dude's also saved the Disney worlds a **** ton of times.

 

[PsySmasher]

So, Smash Bros Ultimate: World of Light.

What if in the future, we get another DLC story campaign that parallels it with even more spirits called "World of Darkness"? Or something along those lines, like "World Noir".

That sounds so Fire Emblem.
I love it.

 

[Will]

Sora has a lot of powers. I likely can't cover them all, but here are some.

• Magic, including
  • Fire
  • Ice
  • Thunder/Electricity
  • Wind
  • Gravity
  • Time
  • Magnetism
  • Barriers (named Reflect)
  • Healing Magic
• A variety of acrobatics, including Flow Motion, which is kinda ridiculous
• Oh yeah he can also teleport
• The ability to Glide and Air Dash
• A variety of physical attacks, including most of these
• Drive Forms, which completely switch up his physical and magic movesets and (some of which) allow him to dual wield
  • Derivative of this are Keyblade Transformations, which provide this effect as well
    • Sora can also switch Keyblades on the fly, allowing for multiple transformations to be used within one battle
• Shotlocks, which are essentially targeted Final Smash attacks
• Attraction Flow, which allows him to attack you with Disney Rides. Yes, you read that right.
• Limits, which are also a type of targeted Final Smash (most of which involve Disney characters, but some of which involve either him alone or with another KH character, so it's possible for them to happen in Smash)
• He can also hit the sickest dab of all time.

Here's a writeup of his abilities in general. It's crazy how much moveset potential Sora has.

Dude's also saved the Disney worlds a **** ton of times.

From what I understand he's just Black Mage with a bunch of keys.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly though, it makes 'sense' to have a BIG reveal at the VGAs(Though sense and Nintendo don't normally go in the same sentence together unless it's in a negative context)


proves that yes, DLC characters are already being worked on and HAVE been worked on for quite awhile, and outside of a Direct, the VGAs are the best time to sucke---err, I mean, PERSUADE as many people into buying the fighter pass.


You'd need a BIG name to do it, and since it's going to be a Square character, then the choices are limited, but kinda obvious.

 

[osby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-MIbnhhpeI

3.21

You guys need to look at the new and improved Blue Falcon.

 

[Will]

Honestly though, it makes 'sense' to have a BIG reveal at the VGAs(Though sense and Nintendo don't normally go in the same sentence together unless it's in a negative context)


proves that yes, DLC characters are already being worked on and HAVE been worked on for quite awhile, and outside of a Direct, the VGAs are the best time to sucke---err, I mean, PERSUADE as many people into buying the fighter pass.


You'd need a BIG name to do it, and since it's going to be a Square character, then the choices are limited, but kinda obvious.

so minecraft steve?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-MIbnhhpeI

3.21

You guys need to look at the new and improved Blue Falcon.

Right Click > Copy Current Link URL > Insert Media > Paste > ??? > Profit

 

[Shroob]

so minecraft steve?

Nah mang, E3. THAT'S when you drop Steve for max effect.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I wonder what the James spirit could be used for? Like, what event?

I can see a pink Fox as Pigma, one wearing the Bunny Hood fpr Peppy, and then... maybe they can make a unique model with sunglasses for Fox like some other events did with Dark Link and stuff?

I dunno. It's unlikely, I know.

 

[Zippo]

Spawn Wave is pretty adamant about Sora being revealed during the VGAs which premiere a day after Ultimate's launch.

Oh wow. I'd be ecstatic. Makes a ton of sense if there is going to be one last Kingdom Hearts III trailer there.

 

[Deleted member]

Changing one word in this makes it sound like a quote from 3 months ago.

Tots please don't go down this road I'm begging you

Don't worry, buddy! I won't go down that route! I'm in this Ultimate hype cycle all good, just like you!

Like you...

...AND ALL YOU GUYS!

JESUS ****ING H CHRIST SAKURAI WHY COULDN'T YOU MAKE NIA A GOD DAMN ASSIST TROPHY AT THE LEAST

 

[osby]

From what I understand he's just Black Mage with a bunch of keys.

He's Black Mage with a sense of fashion.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Sora is basically a godmode Link

 

[Will]

Sora is basically a godmode Link

Sora doesn't have a shield or really anything of Link's characteristics though

 

[Shroob]

I do think it's odd Sakurai would throw in the "We won't start work on DLC until the game is finished" card.... and then right after show


If characters really can take "Up to a year" of development, then it's kinda ****ing obvious that Piranha Plant was being worked on alongside the base game, which REALLY begs to question if DLC production had infact been started way, wayy earlier.



I honestly think that it's just PR speak and yes, DLC development has been in full effect for quite some time now.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You know, I've been bringing this up an awful lot. I mean, a lot.
There's a lot more quotes, but I don't want to bombard you more. Granted, I brought this up in a different manner than you have.

Warning: Lots of 2B propaganda

Square Enix seems to be varying their fighting game promotions though.

Noctis in Tekken
2B in Soul Calibur
Sora in Smash

Sounds about right.

Negotiations with Cygames could have just started recently because Katalina is planned for a second season of DLC

This is possible as well, but then why not just announce two seasons? Or 10 characters? It doesn't make sense to me.

So the newcomers this time are kind of underwhelming for me. Ridley and KRool I'm hyped for, but man I wanted Skull Kid so bad. They did him and many other highly requested fighters dirty. And if these DLC rumors are true, then it really isn't about being an all-star anymore, especially with Piranha Plant being our first taste... if Steve and some girl from a mobile game get into Smash before any worthy Nintendo all-stars, then I seriously believe that Nintendo may have changed for the worse after Iwata died. Those character choices are so... cold. It's not that I'm not confident that Sakurai can't make fun and interesting movesets from these characters, it's just that they sincerely do not deserve to be in Smash bros.

As someone who was here before loz18 opened up his dirty pipe:

• Skull Kid was a nobody
• Geno wasn't widely requested until Ridley and K. Rool came before him
• Isaac was as popular as ever - not popular enough
• Shadow wasn't popular until the concept of echo fighters came up, at which point it was likely too late
• Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they can't be fun

Also, don't you dare dishonor Iwata's name like that. Just because you don't like what they're doing doesn't mean that they're dishonoring him, and if he were still alive we'd likely get the same characters. This is the epitome of entitlement and it's straight up shameful at this point. Iwata was still a businessman, and he wanted nothing more than for his company to succeed, including Sakurai and co.'s work.

The current direction of Nintendo is one that Iwata set. While they have slightly deviated, we'd currently be seeing almost the exact same things if Iwata were still CEO.