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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Hydrualic Hydra

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
548
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Somewhere Safe
Board is moving crazy fast, can't tell if this was posted already, but the site was updated to confirm every single Pokeball and Assist Trophy, Skull Kid is still an Assist, not a boss, and Tapu Koko is a Pokeball summon, neato.
 

amazonevan19

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
917
As someone who wasn't even disappointed with the Direct, I think the "you should denounce any and all criticism of the game because Sakurai is tired" narrative is silly.

It's okay to be critical of things you like and love, just as long as you're being respectful and not throwing tantrums about it.

Like, I'm still ecstatic for the game, I really am. But I do have some gripes, I'm sad Trophies are gone and I think Spirits themselves are little underwhelming and remind me too much of both Stickers and Customs from Smash 4 which I'm not a fan of. The structure of the Direct was too bloated for what was a lot of fluff (Options? Really?) They also did a poor job selling me on Adventure Mode, but I'm keeping an open mind about it.

Anyways, it's good to be critical of things. Just don't be an ****** about it.
This. This so ****ing much.

I have a different perspective. My hype for the game is absolutely dead. But I'm glad others are happy and I'm going to make the best of the situation and try to find some humor in it even.
 

lightdrago

Smash Ace
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I’ve been in a good mood all day. Incineroar really set the tone for me. Now that I’ve got my most wanted, I’m in it for the ride. Sakurai could add literally anyone and I’d still be hyped. I mean, look at Piranha Plant!

Now I’m going to advocate for Phoenix Wright, Geno, Prince Sidon, and Monster Hunter. Let’s go!
 

CrunchyCHEEZIT

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
Messages
227
the only thing that disappointed me about this direct is that I'll have to wait until February to play Piranha Plant, god damn.
 

P.Kat

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Beginning of E3 Direct: EVERYONE IS HERE!

Final Direct: EVERYONE IS DEAD... except for Kirby.

Also Gardevoir is a Pokéball Pokémon NOOOOOOO! Another one bets the dust T_T
 

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
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I'm not cancelling my pre-order or not buying the game, but this is the most disappointed in Sakurai I've ever been. Not even really excited for DLC because they'll probably make up a ton of rules to shut down all the fan wants they deconfirmed through Spirits, Assist Trophies, and the likes.
Eh, all we can do is hope for the best, and try to shill for our favorites as much as possible.

Is anyone else annoyed about the way the new online is set up?
Seems weird. The fact that you set up what rules you want and then just dive in much more roundabout than before. I like going back and forth between 1 v 1 no items, and Doubles with no items for online, so it's weird to me they just can't just be counted as separate modes. Although a sort of ranked mode you unlock is cool.
 

KMDP

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
12,199
Incenroar is gen7?
Gen 1 - Red, Green, Blue, Yellow
Gen 2 - Gold, Silver, Crystal
Gen 3 - Ruby, Sapphire, Fire Red, Leaf Green, Emerald
Gen 4 - Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, Heart Gold, Soul Silver
Gen 5 - Black, White, Black 2, White 2
Gen 6 - X, Y, Omega Ruby, Alpha Sapphire
Gen 7 - Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, Ultra Moon
 

larlargaming

Smash Apprentice
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has anyone been updated about anything home run contest or any stadium stuff ?
 

Saelind Genesis

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
118
I gotta say guys. Even though the leak was fake, I'm not salty at all.

It was incredibly well done and got us talking. Also, I'm really, really excited to play as all these amazing characters! And Incineroar as well!!
 

Impa4Smash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2018
Messages
1,630
I lowkey always wanted Petey in Smash so I guess I finally got my wish.

Story mode looks really fun too. Although I wonder if the opening movie is the only cinematic. Cuz it looks like everyone is on the same side (baddies are with the goodies)
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
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Btw, "why Isaac/Shadow/whatever is AT, they could be DLC!" argument is stupid because they already decided DLC.
 

ZephyrZ

But.....DRAGONS
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Man it's kind of funny what they did to All-Star mode. You could say it was a demotion, but honestly Smash 4's version of it wasn't all that good so I consider this to be an improvement. Also if you think about it, while we may not have seen the fighting Ditto team we were all hoping for, the New All Star mode is essentially the same thing as what that would have been anyway. What's funny about this to me though is that it seems to be a better version of Multi-Man Smash. I'm not even sure why I'd play MMS outside of Achievements....wait a moment, is the challenge board coming back?

...Gosh i just realized that this game might not have a challenge board. Now that will be a shame if its true.
 

KingofKoopas

Smash Lord
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Messages
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It was a little funny though to see LeakyPandy bucked off their High Horse.. Even though skull kid wasn't playable.. Sure as **** wasn't a Spirits Mode Boss.
 

OreoSmasher777

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
60
SPIRITS DONT DECONFIRM KIRBY AND WFT TRAINER IS SPIRITS

Also

Season1 = Characters like geno

Season2? = Echoes?

Season 3 = AT's trophies upgraded? Gen 8 pokemon?
 

Fane

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
355
okay bit early but here's my DLC predictions, also worth noting that Sakurai said they are already chosen and WERE chosen during development time. New bois are ruled out 100%.(thank GOD)

I don't think that spirits rule anyone out, just like Trophies and Stickers wouldn't.

Either it'll be three 3rd parties + 2 first parties, or vice versa so here's my predictions for either or.

1) Sora or Geno
2) Bandana Dee
3) Dixie Kong
4) Banjo & Kazooie
5) Chorus Kids or unexpected 3rd party(Such as Minecraft/Halo/others)

Also in celebration of the final roster I did a thing:
smashultimate11-1-18.png
Hope ya'll use it as your backgrounds to remind you that this is the hypest roster in gaming history! ;)
 

Dee Dude

“Never ask Dee for anything again”
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In the end, we’ll all get over it no matter upset we are.

And who knows? Isaac/Shadow/Geno/Banjo/whoever’s exclusion means their demand and support will be even bigger then ever if there’s future Smash games planned. (No way Ultimate will be the last one, it’s way too successful as a franchise)

I have doubts any other fan requested characters that are still in the running (Bandana Dee) will be DLC because stating only 5 will be DLC means they’ve already planned the characters and there’s a high most of them will be “Sakurai picks”.

Besides, the Grinch hoax still did something.

It gave the idea of Mach Rider and Chorus Kids’ being in Smash a lot more publicity and popularity than it already has before.
 
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amazonevan19

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
917
I honestly don't think people who are a bit unsatisfied with the final base-game roster should be labeled as ungrateful. Even ignoring the leak altogether, newcomers such as Shadow and Isaac were hugely requested and Zelda hasn't received a new playable character besides the different iterations of Link in almost two decades. The lack of satisfaction stems from the apparent absurdity of some of the choices related to the roster.

I don't blame Sakurai for choosing to limit the number of base-game newcomers given how much effort developing this game has required, but choosing to make them Assist Trophies once again feels... bad. I (and many others, I'm sure) would have preferred them to be DLC instead of Assist Trophies. I don't know, Sakurai's choice doesn't make any sense to me, since it's a bad choice even from a financial standpoint (they would have sold like hotcakes).

Basically, I believe people would have been less salty if Isaac and Shadow hadn't been in the game at all (until a potential DLC announcement), since it would have left the door open for them to be added later. Right now, it looks like their fate is sealed, which is a huge shock considering the fact that a character like Piranha Plant was announced to be playable. Why have the Ballot if you're going to ignore some of the top choices?

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Piranha Plant himself, he's just the victim of bad timing and I would have been more than happy to see him included knowing that we could still get these highly-requested characters in the future. I think it's reasonable for some people to be slightly annoyed by the fact that Sakurai has chosen to make a generic enemy playable (completely generic, this time, unlike Bandana Dee) while relegating important protagonists/antagonists to Assist Trophy status once again. At the same time, I don't think comparing Piranha Plant to R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch or Wii Fit Trainer is fair, since they are either the main characters of their games or, in R.O.B.'s case, a unique moment in Nintendo's history.

Basically, had very popular characters like Shadow and Isaac been part of the DLC season, this game could have been perfect for more people than it's gonna be in this timeline. That alone seems like a good enough reason to be disappointed today, despite Sakurai's work which we all respect. Tomorrow, we know that we'll still have the biggest game in the series, we know we're still gonna have 103 stages, countless characters and so on, but we also know what we will probably never have in this same extraordinary and once-in-a-lifetime "Everyone is Here!" game - the possibility to play some characters that have been highly requested for years.
ABSOLUTELY THIS.

No one can deny that they've MAJORLY ****ed this up.

I don't hate Ken, Incineroar, or Piranha Plant. I absolutely loathe that Piranha Plant got in OVER Shadow and Geno and countless other highly requested characters.

This is all slightly ameliorated by the fact Ridley and K Rool finally got their rightful place. Good job, Sakurai. We all can't forget that even if you didn't want them. He listened to the community there.

But even then...WHY GIVE SHADOW AND ISAAC FANS HOPE LIKE SAKURAI DID FOR MONTHS? Should have been deconfirmed like Ashley or saved for DLC.

No matter who the DLC is, and whether you're rejoicing or sad today, no one can deny that they should have handled this so much better than they did.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Crash has a chance still.

The japanese support after the Direct will help a lot.
 

Garteam

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After giving it some time to ruminate, theses are my honest thoughts. If you disagree, good for you. Variety is the spice of life and in opinions this is no exception. Likewise, if you think I'm misunderstanding something, feel free to have a respectful reply. That being said...

I thought that direct was bad. In a Grinchless vacuum, I find it hard to consider that a fitting end to this speculation cycle.

Pros
Ken - You can really feel the love coming off Sakurai's inclusion in Ken. The fire shoryuken, the special focus attack, the general personality, everything about Ken feels so right. Even as someone who doesn't really play Ryu, I'm very much looking forward to picking up Ken.
That Cutscene - Holy moly Ravioli, that ending cutscene was incredible! Getting to see all those characters working together in a high quality, fully voiced cutscence where everyone is in character and the stakes are higher than they've ever been feels like the Subspace we should've gotten. I don't think anyone would disagree it was awesome, plain and simple
Bosses - It was really cool to see Galleom return and It's clear to see they're going all in on bosses in Spirits mode.

Cons
Incineroar - I suppose I should start off with the con that will get me the most flack, I think Incineroar is lame. Full disclosure, I was a adamant Lycanroc guy throughout this whole speculation period (and I still think he has a fighting chance with an Alola stage in the DLC). However, I had warmed up to Incineroar, mainly through dialogue with his supporters. My biggest fear with Incineroar is his wrestling gimmick would hit the same notes that characters like Bowser already do: a big, slow heavy with super armour, a strong punish game, and good grabs with a supporting command grab. However, hearing some of the ideas of Incineroar as a grappler did give me some hope, how bad could he be? Problem is, it feels like my fear has come true. His presentation is top notch, I'll give you that, but the underlying mechanics and gameplay feels about as generic as it comes. Darkiest Lariat looks some much like DK's grounded cyclone it's not funny, his command grab has a pseudo-rhythm mechanic but it doesn't really differentiate him much for other command grabs, and I'm certain Sakurai could've done something better for Revenge than yet another counter (how about it's a move that plays on rage? The higher percent, more power. Not the most unique idea, I know, but it's more unique than what's currently in place). Even his basic movements feel very similar to Bowser and K. Rool, unrefined blows of power using the whole body. Overall, Incineroar is a lot like a expensive socks, they're very nice to look at and there's a current novelty to them at points, but there's nothing that practically seperates them from the rest of the drawer.
Spirits Mode - A lot of what I said about Incineroar kinda applies here, a lot of style with no substance. The fundamental gameplay of Spirits just feels like Stickers Mode meets Events. While I do appreciate the sheer number of scenarios that have appear to have gone into this mode, the skeptic in me feels like it will get old fast, playing like a series of short battles between the bosses, which I think will be the reason I'll keep playing. I suppose the customizability of the spirits will be neat, but I don't know how impactful Spirits will actually be in the battle to battle gameplay. I imagine most players will simply have 3 main spirits you train (one for attack, defence, and grab) with the rest being collectable fodder. At least getting unique maps to explore is cool.

No Trophies - This complaint is largely a "me" thing. Even as a kid, I loved collecting trophies. I loved to check out the full 3D models, read their descriptions, and gain a feeling of what the game they were from is like. It was the same sort of appeal you'd get going to a museum, getting to see and experience history in a personal way. I'm not getting this vibe from Spirits. Spirits kinda lack the "soul" (for lack of a better term) that trophies had, which is ironic seeing how they're supposed to be the souls of these characters. It also kinda sucks to see such an iconic piece of iconography leave the Smash series.
Online - In a game that's as customizable as Smash, going from the For Glory/For Fun designations to a host's preference system feels like a major step back. I know the system is designed to match up players with similar preferences, but casual and competitive play are so night and day that they often feel like different games. Smash 4's online had a lot of problems, but you generally knew what you were getting into when you selected a mode. Now, it feels a lot more like a crapshoot whether or not you'll be playing the game mode you wanted to. Likewise, would it be too much to ask for dedicated servers in a major first-party release where precise movements are the difference between success and loss, especially when we're paying a $20 access fee?
Deconfirmations - This is where I'm going to start addressing the way marketing was done and the way the direct itself was handled instead of the content in the direct. Some may say this is stupid to critique this, as it has no real barring on the final content, but it also effects the general reactions people have to the content so I feel it's worth talking about. They should've deconfirmed Shadow and Issac in the August Direct or using blog updates, leaving people to speculate on them for this long was a pretty poor decision. Obviously, Grinch leak (which they obviously can't plan for) had some impact on this, but the fact they left people wondering for this long slanted perceptions in a bad way. This is especially true for Shadow, as much of his supporters came from the fact we hadn't seen him yet. Also, deconfirming Geno and Skull Kid, in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it icon under Shulk and being added to the website without any fanfare feels like a huge kick in the teeth to two of the most requested characters.
Options and How to Play
- This whole section felt like padding. We really didn't need 5 minutes to explain concepts like "hints is returning from Wii U/3DS" and "you can change the language" (which has been a thing since Melee?). If brevity is the soul of wit, this section was the definition of shortsightedness. Likewise, I'm not sure how I feel about the whole "you can buff and nerf the roster thing". There's a very obvious solution to this concer (i.e. don't use it), but it feels like this will simply cause more arguments than it will solve, namely in casual play where fights will break inevitably break out over whether or not is fair to nerf the "cheap" characters.
DLC and Amiibos - Going into the direct, I had zero doubt that we would get some extra info on the way DLC would be done, given Mewtwo's annoucement at the 50 fact extravaganza. However, it didn't expect it to feel as much like a commercial as it did. Trying to sell us a Season Pass without any knowledge of what exactly we're getting feels scummy, plain and simple. Even a little guidance beyond, "you're getting characters, stages, and music" would've been nice. Something like "we'll be listening to fan demand for the DLC characters" or "We're hoping these characters will surprise you" would at least set some expectations as to what we would be buying. Likewise, Amiibos felt very commercial. It was cool to see them, but you couldn't have elaborated on what they actually did or any changes between Smash 4?
Piranha Plant - Sakurai, I love you man. Your weird ideas are what makes Smash into a truly unique game and gives it such a strong identity. That being said, I don't get it. I know Piranha Plant is this game's surprise character, but he's just a generic enemy. He's not even the most iconic common enemy, Goomba and Koopa are way more recognizable than him. I'm sure I'll warm up to him eventually, but right now I'm just not feeling it. He feels like a step down after the hype machine that was Mewtwo's announcement.
Insiders
- This is less about the direct itself and more about the environment surrounding it. In particular, the attitude many insiders had towards those who did not believe that Incineroar and Ken would be our final newcomers. Specifically, Andre from Gamexplain and Liam Robertson throwing politically charged insults at those who were skeptical under the guise of "addressing toxicity". Ad hominems doesn't set good examples on how to act in speculation, it does the opposite by establishing that these sort of actions are the standard for the community. For people that are supposed to be ambassadors of the Smash Community, you're doing a piss poor job by starting stupid fights out of your own egos. Grow up.

Overall, if I had to rate the direct, I would give it a 3/10. For every step forward, there were at least 2 steps back. I'm still going to get Smash Ultimate on the day it comes out, but that speaks more to the fantastic E3 and 8/8 presentations than anything that went on today. Obviously, we're not owed anything from Sakurai, Sora Ltd., Nintendo, and Namco Bandai. That being said, it is still worth being critical as a consumer, even if it goes against the status quo. Smash Bros would not be half the game it was today if it wasn't for fan feedback. It is important to clap when pleased, and to boo when displeased.
 
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Artorias

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
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The Abyss, Lordran
Wait so is Piranha Plant base game or DLC? Haven't watched the direct yet.
DLC released on february 2019, but free as long as you either buy the game digitally or register on my nintendo the physical game until january 31st
chrome_2018-11-01_14-03-09.png
Also confirmed not to be part of the DLC pass 5 characters
chrome_2018-11-01_13-47-14.png

Btw why the hell did Peach and Daisy keep their awful final smashes? that's the only real dissapointment from today
 

Idon

Smash Legend
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Hold on, Mii Swordfighter used 2 different Up B's if I saw this **** correctly. Miis have customizable specials again I think.
A bit of old news buddy.
We've seen Brawler have 2 different upBs since the E3 trailer.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Incenroar is gen7?
Him, Primarina, and Decidueye were the starters. And when Concept art was leaked, we saw Ash & Pikachu (along with a then unconfirmed character, 'Mallow') which showed that he was probably going to be more featured in the anime (and likely to be Ash's fully evolved Starter by the end of the Sun/Moon series).
 

Bowserlick

Smash Hero
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People wanted all returning characters. Sakurai delivered.
People wanted King K. Rool and Ridley. Sakurai delivered.
People wanted Melee-esque gameplay. Sakurai delivered.
This game is a checklist of many things people demanded.
Plus 5 DLC's not including a fun character in Piranha plant.
 
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Untouch

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,783
Seriously I love really odd unorthodox characters like Duck Hunt Dog and Wii Fit Trainer so Piranha Plant is amazing to me.
 

Paperchampion23

Smash Champion
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Sep 16, 2014
Messages
2,031
I just realized....Steve/Minecraft make MUCH more sense as Mii Fighter costumes.

Leaving my boy Banjo in the running as a Microsoft pick instead:p
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
24,014
SPIRITS DONT DECONFIRM KIRBY AND WFT TRAINER IS SPIRITS

Also

Season1 = Characters like geno

Season2? = Echoes?

Season 3 = AT's trophies upgraded? Gen 8 pokemon?
Eh, be careful. After last DLC, they might not want to add a ton of fighters.
 
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