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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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PsychoJosh

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Fire Emblem as a series has been around a lot longer then ARMS has (which I am guessing started development in early to mid 2016, maybe a bit earlier) and Sakurai almost always ends up going with the protagonist of the latest Fire Emblem game as is.
So your reason is that you don't have one.

"Ohh but I like Fire Emblem, that makes it completely different!"

If Corrin could get in without "proving himself" then so can the ARMS characters. This isn't hard. Fire Emblem deserves no favoritism in this regard since it gets new protagonists in every single game and each of them are as "unproven" as characters from a new game.
 
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Curious Villager

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Being fair, people did the same with the Inklings and various other characters before their debut games came out..

Likewise with how it was with the inklings before their game first came out. I'd agree to wait out how their game will do before hand, but people are free to support them now if they already got a liking for them imo.
 

Yellowlord

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So your reason is that you don't have one.

"Ohh but I like Fire Emblem, that makes it completely different!"

If Corrin could get in without "proving himself" then so can the ARMS characters. This isn't hard. Fire Emblem deserves no favoritism in this regard.
Uh... I had reasons listed; compared to Fire Emblem Fates, ARMS has yet to be released and hasn't been around long enough to make its characters viable (its not to say that you aren't allowed to start liking them, but they do need to be successful). In addition, I suppose what I said with your quote may of not worked together well in the same sentence, but still.

And like I said, he did seem to be well liked by Japanese players and his game in general was well liked (even if there was backlash by others from Japan and around the world).
 
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Staarih

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Promotion is what it is if an ARMS character does get in, not sure if a character being "worthy" is even a thing actually nowadays. And, anyway, ARMS will be out before the next Smash so at that point it won't be new and will probably have established somewhat of a fanbase/popularity. By the looks of it, Nintendo is really backing the game and betting it to do well, so that alone would make me think it's going to be a franchise to keep an eye on, in and outside of Smash.
Not saying that an ARMS character will happen, just that it could.
 

PsychoJosh

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Uh... I had reasons listed; compared to Fire Emblem Fates, ARMS has yet to be released and hasn't been around long enough to make its characters viable (its not to say that you aren't allowed to start liking them, but they do need to be successful). In addition, I suppose what I said with your quote may of not worked together well in the same sentence, but still.

And like I said, he did seem to be well liked by Japanese players and his game in general was well liked (even if there was backlash by others from Japan and around the world).
Even if we do get a new Smash announcement at E3, it won't be released for quite some time, possibly even until 2018.

ARMS is coming out this summer, so by the time the new Smash releases, ARMS will have already been out for quite some time. I don't think the game will be unsuccessful, but I don't think it really matters as to whether these characters are included or not.
 
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You know what tends to bother me? When people ask for Spring Man and Ribbon Girl when their game hasn't actually been released yet and thus have not yet proven themselves worthy. Until that happens, I do not consider these characters viable for Smash as I believe it to be too risky of a move right now for the Smash team to consider (if they plan on even making new characters or bringing back veterans, that is). If they are planning on adding any characters, I'd say we might get 2 newcomers and 2 veterans from the port, with the newcomers being King K. Rool and Inklings while the veterans are the Ice Climbers and Wolf, respectively. To me, that seems like a fair amount of characters on both fronts, especially with the Inklings; they've proven themselves to me as worthy additions to Smash based off their successful introduction to the world, so I now support them instead of go against them.
People can ask for whoever they like. To say otherwise just seems like obnoxious gatekeeping.
 

Kirbeh

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Promotion is what it is if an ARMS character does get in, not sure if a character being "worthy" is even a thing actually nowadays. And, anyway, ARMS will be out before the next Smash so at that point it won't be new and will probably have established somewhat of a fanbase/popularity. By the looks of it, Nintendo is really backing the game and betting it to do well, so that alone would make me think it's going to be a franchise to keep an eye on, in and outside of Smash.
Not saying that an ARMS character will happen, just that it could.
I wouldn't say there's no concept of a character being "worthy", it's just that who is considered worthy is going to be different from person to person. What makes a character "worthy" in Sakurai's eyes for example, might be whether or not they are iconic and have abilities with which he can craft a unique moveset. That's simplifying things, and we don't know all the ins and outs of the way Sakurai does things of course, just going by what he's said in interviews. It was more just to get the point across.

Overall, I think it depends on how successful ARMS turns out to be. If it's a big enough hit for Nintendo to continue and the characters become popular then an ARMS character will likely be considered. Whether they make the cut afterward is dependent on whatever criteria Sakurai (or whomever is in charge should Smash switch hands) has.
 

Yellowlord

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People can ask for whoever they like. To say otherwise just seems like obnoxious gatekeeping.
My views have changed over the past hour; people can and should like a character if they'd fit in Smash and/or make sense as a fighter, but I think we can all agree that its important to see how the game does first either way. When you think about it, perhaps it could become the next Splatoon? Patience is key, after all, so we'll see.
 
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Kirbeh

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My views have changed over the past hour; people can and should like a character if they'd fit in Smash and/or make sense as a fighter, but I think we can all agree that its important to see how the game does first either way. When you think about it, perhaps it could become the next Splatoon? Patience is key, after all, so we'll see.
Honestly, your reasoning was fine, just sounded a little aggressive. People can want who they want, just keep those expectations in check.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Inb4 MinMin for Smash

She's the most unique but probably won't happen since she's a side character in comparison. A huge shame too since her concept and design blows the other Arms characters out of the water.
 

FalKoopa

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I'd echo the general sentiment.

Feel free to ask for whoever or whatever. Don't expect them though.
 

AwesomeAussie27

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I'd echo the general sentiment.

Feel free to ask for whoever or whatever. Don't expect them though.

Just like what happened with characters like Dillon and Mallo.

The same reason why I'm not expecting anything big out of Ever Oasis for Smash either.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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I'm just trying to figure out how to make an Arms character work in Smash.

How would you implement the different arms you can equip in the game? It would be weird if you have the toaster arms equipped and it does ice damage, and having your arms be switched whenever you do a certain attack would be weird and kind of confusing.

The best idea I have is being able to switch between different arms using your neutral special. You would start with Toaster arms, but you can change them to Sparky, Popper, Tribolt, etc.

However the cool thing about Arms is that you can mix and match the different arms in the game, if you want to do that you can't use a single button for it. Maybe make neutral B be switching one arm and down B be switching the other? That sounds kind of messy/excessive though.

Also there is the matter of balancing the super long arms they have.
 
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Late as hell but I beli-
Feel free to ask for whoever or whatever. Don't expect them though.
TFW someone has your opinion word for word


Inklings just had cool designs man they would have been awesome for smash. Thought the same thing when Henry Fleming was revealed.
I'm just trying to figure out how to make an Arms character work in Smash.

How would you implement the different arms you can equip in the game? It would be weird if you have the toaster arms equipped and it does ice damage, and having your arms be switched whenever you do a certain attack would be weird and kind of confusing.

The best idea I have is being able to switch between different arms using your neutral special. You would start with Toaster arms, but you can change them to Sparky, Popper, Tribolt, etc.

However the cool thing about Arms is that you can mix and match the different arms in the game, if you want to do that you can't use a single button for it. Maybe make neutral B be switching one arm and down B be switching the other? That sounds kind of messy/excessive though.

Also there is the matter of balancing the super long arms they have.
Smash doesn't need to be 100% true to the source material. In smash, Arms characters would most likely either use just the normal Arms, or use different arms for different attacks, just like how :4pit::4darkpit: just suddenly have guardian orbitars/upperdash arm for two moves. They wouldnt need to have a weapon switching gimmick or anything like that, sicne long range punches would be more than enough for a gimmick.


As for balancing, huge end lag could be a reasonable way to balance it.
 
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Wolfie557

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I think that Spring Man/Ribbon Girl would make for interesting additions as an Assist Trophies, but I'll need a whole lot of convincing before I'm on board for them becoming individual characters.

Same thing back when Splatoon came out. The Inklings looked cool and all, but I waited until Splatoon released and proved itself before being more accepting of the Inklings possibly coming to Smash.
I agree.

Put MinMin as playable instead. :p
Inb4 MinMin for Smash

She's the most unique but probably won't happen since she's a side character in comparison. A huge shame too since her concept and design blows the other Arms characters out of the water.
And that just makes me sad. The main two are generic to me, design wise. MinMin looks great and does a lot more. Ofc, there may be others not revealed yet that could be considered even more unique.

Maybe as a second character to the arms mascots but that would only happen if arms is really succesfull and much more likley in the Smash after the Switches one...
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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Late as hell but I beli-

TFW someone has your opinion word for word


Inklings just had cool designs man they would have been awesome for smash. Thought the same thing when Henry Fleming was revealed.

Smash doesn't need to be 100% true to the source material. In smash, Arms characters would most likely either use just the normal Arms, or use different arms for different attacks, just like how :4pit::4darkpit: just suddenly have guardian orbitars/upperdash arm for two moves. They wouldnt need to have a weapon switching gimmick or anything like that, sicne long range punches would be more than enough for a gimmick.


As for balancing, huge end lag could be a reasonable way to balance it.
I'm not sure Sakurai would be satisfied with your suggestions. While not always being 100% true to the source material Sakurai is all about detail and making characters represent the games well for better or for worse.

This is the same person that made the Pokémon Trainer. Switching between 3 characters is unique of a gimmick enough, yet he went out of his way to make the Pokémon get weaker if they're out in battle for too long, made them weak to grass/fire/water respectively, and whenever a Pokémon got KOd they would be switched in with the next Pokémon.

He didn't need to give Shulk the ability to change his stats to make him unique, he didn't need to make Robin's sword and tomes limited use to make him unique, he didn't need to implement Palutena's special moves the way that he did to make her unique, but he did those things to better represent the games.

The Pit example where they pull out their weapons from hammer space isn't the same. It would be a different story if they're Palutena Bow/Silver Bow suddenly transformed into a completely different bow for certain attacks, but that's not the case.
 

Lord-Zero

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2B could be likely due to her butt...popularity. If anything, yes, new 3rd-Party "newcomers" probably have a different criteria.
 
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I have the feeling ARMS will be to Smash 5 what The Wonderful 101 was to Smash 4.
 
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Even if W101 sold well, the game was still probably released too late to have any playable representation in the base game (roster was decided in 2012, W101 was released in 2013).
 
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He didn't need to give Shulk the ability to change his stats to make him unique. . . but he did those things to better represent the games.
This is a terrible example, because it is the exact opposite of making the game true to source material :p


Hell Shulk even has another example of being way from source amterial because Smash Shulk just smacks people with the monad like it's a club when XC Shulk doesnt do that.


I admit the rest is fair though
 

Kirbeh

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2B could be likely due to her butt...popularity. If anything, yes, new 3rd-Party "newcomers" probably have a different criteria.
Well that suggestion came out of nowhere. :p

And when she's revealed the tagline will be:

YoHRa No. 2 Model B
> "I just really like girls." - Yoko Taro <

That being said, I think Nier: Automata would need to be ported to the Switch first. Either that or she'd need some sort of appearance be it major or minor in some other game that happens to be on a Nintendo system. People say that Cloud disproved this, but iirc, Sakurai did say that Cloud having appeared on Nintendo systems before helped, even if those weren't the major roles he's known for.

That aside I still need to get Nier (still need to get a PS4 first though, my PC can't run anything :c) More Platinum is always a plus imo, and given that it's Platinum we're talking about I'm sure she has more than enough to make for a good moveset.
 
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Wolfie557

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Even if W101 sold well, the game was still probably released too late to have any playable representation in the base game (roster was decided in 2012, W101 was released in 2013).
Awakening was 2013 iirc.
Well that suggestion came out of nowhere. :p

And when she's revealed the tagline will be:

YoHRa No. 2 Model B
> "I just really like girls." - Yoko Taro <

That being said, I think Nier: Automata would need to be ported to the Switch first. Either that or she'd need some sort of appearance be it major or minor in some other game that happens to be on a Nintendo system. People say that Cloud disproved this, but iirc, Sakurai did say that Cloud having appeared on Nintendo systems before helped, even if those weren't the major roles he's known for.

That aside I still need to get Nier (still need to get a PS4 first though, my PC can't run anything :c) More Platinum is always a plus imo, and given that it's Platinum we're talking about I'm sure she has more than enough to make for a good moveset.
**** 2B, give us the Square Enix ceo instead!! (with PG Ceo as costume)
 
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2B could be likely due to her butt...popularity. If anything, yes, new 3rd-Party "newcomers" probably have a different criteria.
Doubtful. Very doubtful.

Until she has the huge Smash demand and at least an appearance on a Nintendo system (while Sakurai mentioned having a Nintendo appearance is only a "courtesy", he ALSO said that he would have probably had misgivings about including Cloud had he not made ANY sort of appearance on a Nintendo system whatsoever), all she has going for her is that Nier: Automata is the current "hot topic" game.
 

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Doubtful. Very doubtful.

Until she has the huge Smash demand and at least an appearance on a Nintendo system (while Sakurai mentioned having a Nintendo appearance is only a "courtesy", he ALSO said that he would have probably had misgivings about including Cloud had he not made ANY sort of appearance on a Nintendo system whatsoever), all she has going for her is that Nier: Automata is the current "hot topic" game.
And her moveset! But yh she needs more Nintendo fans liking her and a port to the Switch which will only happen if Square is willing to publish it there according to PG.
 
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Awakening was 2013 iirc.
2012 in Japan, 2013 everywhere else. Pokemon X/Y is the only post-2012 game that has any playable representation on the base roster, and that's because Game Freak showed Sakurai some of its concept art.
 

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And her moveset! But yh she needs more Nintendo fans liking her and a port to the Switch which will only happen if Square is willing to publish it there according to PG.
As much as I'd like it to be ported I feel as though the Switch probably wouldn't be able to run it. But at the end of the day, I don't know how much Nier requires or how much the Switch can handle. From what I've gathered the answer is "not much", but for those of you that actually own one/know the specs, maybe you can fill us in?
 

Wolfie557

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As much as I'd like it to be ported I feel as though the Switch probably wouldn't be able to run it. But at the end of the day, I don't know how much Nier requires or how much the Switch can handle. From what I've gathered the answer is "not much", but for those of you that actually own one/know the specs, maybe you can fill us in?
If my ****ty laptop can run it according to steams min required specs for the game Im sure Switch could do it.

Would have to be 60fps cos of the type of game it is so graphics likely would be sacrificed.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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I have the feeling ARMS will be to Smash 5 what The Wonderful 101 was to Smash 4.
ARMS would have to bomb spectacularly for that to happen.

ARMS could be the new Golden Sun where bad timing just happens, but I doubt ARMS will bomb.
 

_Sheik

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People can ask for whoever they like. To say otherwise just seems like obnoxious gatekeeping.
I've seen you say this in the NintenZone social thread a long time ago when Tethu was brought up. At the time, I thought "yeah what a bunch of douchebags, who are they to shame somebody for supporting x and y for Smash?"

But that was, as I said, a long time ago. Since then, a pleasant supporter has enlightened me in this very thread, and now whenever you bring it up my face simply brightens as I sing "Smash speculation isn't restricted to 'viable', 'likely' or 'popular' characters! Any character who seems 'hopeless' possesses the right to be supported nonetheless! Thank you, Mushroom Genie supporter, for opening my eyes to this truth! Praise be to the Mushroom Genie supporter! Hail the Mushroom Genie supporter!"
 

PsychoJosh

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I really want to see Smash move away from serious anime characters and more towards cartoony/outlandish characters.

Anime-styled warriors are fine and all but I want to see more zany types of characters. Like a car from Stunt Race FX.
 
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AwesomeAussie27

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I really want to see Smash move away from serious anime characters and more towards cartoony/outlandish characters.

Anime-styled warriors are fine and all but I want to see more zany types of characters. Like a car from Stunt Race FX.
Volleyball Girl would be funny.

Or even the Ice Hockey Trio.
 

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I don't really see those being anything more than alts for Wii Fit Trainer and Ice Climbers.
I already want the Icies to come back, but now I really want them to have ice hockey costumes. Their Ice Shot could be changed into the shape of pucks, and they'd of course swap the hammers out for really short/stubby hockey sticks.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Another idea, Mini Kangaroo.

A character that was one of Nintendo's earliest mascots and she can fight with old Nintendo toys.

Yes, even the kangaroo was anthropomorphized in one old Ultra Hand ad (but she was blue with a purple joey for some reason).
 

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Track Meet, the athlete from World Class Track Meet, could be a new retro newcomer.

He could have Power Pad moves that involves jumping over hurdles and summoning foxes with bombs (from Eggsplode) and raining burgers (from Short Order) and his normal moves could be based on Dance Aerobics.
 
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Honestly, I'm sure there's going to be at least one character that almost no one saw coming.
 

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I remember BluePikmin bringing this up in Smash 4 speculation and I've wanted him ever since.

Dr Kawashima (Don't kill me)
 

Tree Gelbman

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Honestly, I'm sure there's going to be at least one character that almost no one saw coming.
I mean Smash 4 had about 4 or 5 of those if you go back and look at everyone's reaction to certain newcomers.

Honestly, Ryu would have made probably made it like 6 if he hadn't leaked.
 
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