Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MamaLuigi123456]

If Smash 5 is being built off of Smash 4 as a base, it makes zero sense to cut characters when they can just be brought back relatively easily and changed a little to help improve them and/or make them more different from their previous incarnations, just saying.

 

[Freduardo]

So how do people feel about kid Icarus getting a 4th rep? Personally, I think Magnus has a decent shot. He was a AT in smash 4, and was even playable in Uprising. I think if we were to lose cloud for whatever reason, he could function as a sort of cloud clone. Or give him a new moveset, Idk I just want magnus lol

I’d love it. Uprising is my favorite 3ds game and I think they’re foolish not porting it to switch.

Magnus would be very easy to implement for the reasons you said, plus his AT really seems like a character in how it moves.

Plus Uprising played like a 3d super smash Bros.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If Smash 5 is being built off of Smash 4 as a base, it makes zero sense to cut characters when they can just be brought back relatively easily and changed a little to help improve them and/or make them more different from their previous incarnations, just saying.

Sane argument but a few counter points

All characters need new models
There may be an upper limit to the amount of character they can have in game before it's impossible to balance.
People have shown they're willing to buy Veterans as DLC (Thank Arceus Above that we're not dealing with EA)

 

[LancerStaff]

If Smash 5 is being built off of Smash 4 as a base, it makes zero sense to cut characters when they can just be brought back relatively easily and changed a little to help improve them and/or make them more different from their previous incarnations, just saying.

Smash 4 used Brawl as a base and still cut characters.

If they couldn’t even be bothered to remake Wolf after all that time I somehow doubt we’ll get a new game and not have any cuts.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

My mistake. I thought Mother 3 released in 2001 for some reason.

Even so, that’s a fair reason for Mother only having 2 characters in the game.

TBH, I do want Ninten to be in the latest Smash game, especially the recent release of Earthbound Beginnings (Translated copy of Mother) on the Wii U. Although Ninten looks similar to Ness (With an exception of having a bandana, flipped cap, spiky hair, no backpack, and different shoes), Ninten utilized different PSI moves that are unique to Ness such as PK Beam and 4th-D Slip. I do want to see Ninten in a unique moveset, or at least being a semi-clone of Ness like Lucas. Ninten, Ness, and Lucas are the trio protagonist of the EarthBound trilogy and having two main EarthBound representatives while leaving one doesn't feel right.

Also to note, EarthBound series is the only franchise (alongside Final Fantasy) to not have a character from their original installment playable in Smash Bros (which is Ninten). So putting Ninten there makes sense, especially the release of EarthBound Beginnings in 2015.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

All characters need new models

I don't see why every character needing new models is a problem. Wouldn't those be easier to make than the moveset, something that would already be intact when using the previous game as a base?

And even then couldn't they just touch up the models in Smash 4 (except in cases like Link) instead of making new ones from scratch? Work smarter, not harder.

There may be an upper limit to the amount of character they can have in game before it's impossible to balance.

Personally, I don't think we need to worry about that until the roster reaches at around the 90-100 range, which I think is a good long while from now,

People have shown they're willing to buy Veterans as DLC (Thank Arceus Above that we're not dealing with EA)

For the record my initial argument was taking DLC into account.

Smash 4 used Brawl as a base and still cut characters.

If they couldn’t even be bothered to remake Wolf after all that time I somehow doubt we’ll get a new game and not have any cuts.

Source please?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Aren't you thinking of Palutena and Female Corrin? Last time I checked, the only thing added to Bayonetta was her body getting covered up more when using her weave attacks.

Those two were changed too, but the back of Bayonetta's 2 design has a diamond pattern on her legs showing some skin, which they changed too

Both Xenoblade 2 and Smash WiiU are Pegi12.
Just throwing that out there.

Fire Emblem Fates was Pegi12 too, so? What were the Japanese and American ratings? Think Xenoblade had a B rating

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Source please?

Here it is.

 

[Chandeelure]

If Smash 5 is being built off of Smash 4 as a base, it makes zero sense to cut characters when they can just be brought back relatively easily and changed a little to help improve them and/or make them more different from their previous incarnations, just saying.

All Smash games use the previous one as a base.

We even saw Lucario's and Diddy's Brawl renders in some Smash 4 videos, before its release.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

All Smash games use the previous one as a base.

Even Melee?

 

[Ivander]

Those two were changed too, but the back of Bayonetta's 2 design has a diamond pattern on her legs showing some skin, which they changed too

Ah, I see now. I guess since I don't really pay attention to Bayonetta, I didn't know she did have a difference. I mean, it certainly wasn't as obvious as Corrin with her inner thighs.

 

[Louie G.]

I really can't see that many cuts this time around, Sakurai would clearly want to bring back all the original characters he worked hard to produce. I could see the clones getting cut if there isn't that extra time at the end to throw them in, or maybe Cloud (hopefully not Ryu) if they can't get him back. Cloud I could see being the Snake of this game, although there's no reason to cut any of the other third parties (very confident that Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man are safe forever because of how happy Sakurai was to have them all in the same game, Bayo returning is a no brainer at this point).

Pokemon and Fire Emblem are games where I consistently see people saying cuts could happen, but after four games of this being proven wrong (at least for the latter) I think it's safe to say that characters with original movesets are gonna stick around unless they are running into technical limitations like Ice Climbers or are of particularly low priority, namely Mewtwo and Wolf being added toward the end of their respective games' development cycles. As Mewtwo came back I definitely expect Wolf to do the same.

 

[Lyndis_]

Expect cuts. Hope for none.

We have no evidence there won't be any cuts or any knowledge on how much Smash Switch is using from Sm4sh other than speculation.

If there won't be any cuts, it will be a pleasant surprise. Expecting them will make it less disappointing of a potential inevitability.

 

[Louie G.]

I just have no idea who could legitimately be cut, I think most of the characters we have in the game right now would be prioritized to return. Other than Robin or Corrin (if they have to choose one hopefully the latter), the clones and potentially a third party or two I see no real plausible options to be cut.

Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy I would expect to be brought back on the basis of their popularity being apparent enough to bring them back in the first place, coupled with the thought of "why would we make them pay for these characters twice" (they would probably just end up being DLC again).

Also to be fair all the characters I care a lot about are pretty much locks so I'm not really setting myself up for disappointment either way. Always a shame when a popular character gets cut loose though.

 

[Camc10]

Remember, people just thinking they are reusing assets, people (like me) think they they are just pretty much gonna take the Smash 4 and everything, and just tweak some stuff for 4.

We already hve HD models, a lot of characters dont really need new modls to show them from a newer game, Smash 4 physics is pretty good, porting wont be as hard as Brawl to 4, etc etc.

 

[Ridel]

Why not? He could be one of the most unique and interesting newcomer characters in Switch, being sort of like Dhalsim.

I don't think understood what I said. I said I hope Spring Man isn't the ARMS rep. I'm all for an ARMS rep I just think Spring Man is a pretty boring choice from that game, and his abilities do not translate well to Smash. I went on and wrote why MinMin would be a better pick mechanically.

 

[Deleted member]

If Smash 5 is being built off of Smash 4 as a base, it makes zero sense to cut characters when they can just be brought back relatively easily and changed a little to help improve them and/or make them more different from their previous incarnations, just saying.

This. I really want no cuts in Smash for Switch at all, just some changes. There needs to be a balance patch, because some characters need buffs. Bowser Junior, Jigglypuff, Zelda and King Dedede need buffs badly. Maybe Ganondorf. Pac-Man needs his grab fixed as well, as his grab's hitbox is a little off and instead of being what it is, it is just a flashing moving circle.
Anyone agree that there should be no cuts from Smash 4 to Smash for Switch?
Edit: The Smash leaks are getting ridiculous at this point.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I really want to see an accessible Debug Mode in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Switch. People already hack the games to play as Master Hand and Giga Bowser that it would cool to have a mode where you can mess with all that stuff. Make a character any size you want. Play as Metal Mario or Giant Donkey Kong VS Giga Bowser.

I feel like that would make people play this game for hours.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I really want to see an accessible Debug Mode in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Switch. People already hack the games to play as Master Hand and Giga Bowser that it would cool to have a mode where you can mess with all that stuff. Make a character any size you want. Play as Metal Mario or Giant Donkey Kong VS Giga Bowser.

I feel like that would make people play this game for hours.

I really do not like it when not just Smash, but any game blocks off content from the player. Within the series, Super Smash Bros. on 64 is the biggest offender here, in which they lock off use of Battlefield, Final Destination, and Meta Crystal.

Like c'mon, people would wanna play on those stages. Don't make us hack for it.

 

[Camc10]

On the subject of ARMS, if its not Spring Man, i feel like it would be Max Brass

 

[Pacack]

When did he say anything that implied that?

However, reaching that limit [inability to keep transformations] can sometimes lead in good directions. Transforming characters had the drawback of ambiguous tactics and such, and I believe that they have become more fresh now.

I interpret the above as him saying that those characters have a more cohesive moveset and playstyle now that they are seperated.

 

[Burruni]

Those two were changed too, but the back of Bayonetta's 2 design has a diamond pattern on her legs showing some skin, which they changed too
Fire Emblem Fates was Pegi12 too, so? What were the Japanese and American ratings? Think Xenoblade had a B rating

I looked into things a bit.
Smash WiiU and Xenoblade 2 ratings
NA: E10+, T. ESRB specifically notes the depictions of characters being killed, references to alcohol, and a mixture of some character designs and moreso the way the game occasionally highlights them (rear shots, a character being called a pervert, etc).
EU: Pegi12 for both.
JP: CERO A, CERO C, effectively "Everyone" and "15+" XB1 was B, but XBX was C as well. But, given how some outfits in Xenoblade 1 were....

Spoiler

I feel like Pyra's outfit was not the major push. Praxis, Kora, Dahlia, Perun's jello-chest, Sheba's "harem" of women, and things like people being visibly impaled in cutscenes were more likely the discerning factor in the bump.

Edit: The image uploader seems to be on fire again, so I'm just gonna post the links.
http://orig06.deviantart.net/213e/f/2011/237/4/6/xenoblade_by_beholdcan-d47u97s.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...st/scale-to-width-down/2000?cb=20120504131735
Click at risk of Rated T for Teen sexual suggestiveness

Double Edit: This is not claiming Pyra's outfit won't have some minor tweaks, like FCorrin's armor losing the stupid butt window. But I feel it will be just that, minor, if it does.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Historically, clones don't have the best track record of returning in Smash games.


Out of the six newcomer clones in Melee (), only two returned for Brawl (technically three since Toon Link was intended to be a replacement of sorts).

Out of the three newcomer semi-clones in Brawl (), only one returned on the base roster for Smash 4. Since DLC was originally going to be limited to just Mewtwo, there was a point in time where Lucas and Roy weren't planned to be in Smash 4 at all.

Wow, thanks. I really needed that history lesson. A history lesson sprinkled with assumptions and speculation I might add.

People who say clones are the first to go aren't necessarily wrong here

Well, actually they are wrong. You can't just say "After this, therefore because of this". The point is that not all clones get removed. So you have to justify your assumption beyond "Well, they're clones and clones are ALWAYS the first to get cut."

The point is that not all clones get removed because they are clonesand those who speculate that the clones in Smash 4 could get cut are probably just going off the cuts from previous Smash games, not because they have a personal distaste for Dr. Mario and Dark Pit. I don't think it's illogical thinking in any way.

Here's the thing. Clones are way easier to make than semi-clones. The reason Dr. Mario & Roy probably didn't return to Brawl is because all the characters on that roster had to be semi-clones. So it would have taken more time to create Dr. Mario in Brawl than it would have in Smash 4.

You can't just say "Well, this happened in the last game so it will happen this time to these specific characters." You have to justify it more than that.

To be fair, Star Fox didn't have nearly as many fallback options as Pokemon. Since Wolf was added late in Brawl's development, Sakurai probably thought Falco would be the only other Star Fox character, which might have made him a higher priority.

As for Pokemon Trainer, bringing back all three Pokemon wasn't really necessary, especially when Charizard was far more iconic and the franchise had plenty of room to grow in the future. Cutting Sheik or ZSS would have been a bad decision, especially since neither franchise received a newcomer in Smash 4.

I love how people concede that there are exceptions to rules, but then they qualify it like "Well, that was different because this."

So you are admitting that there are exceptions, but then you're simultaneously defending the generalization that contradicts it.

 

[Morbi]

On the subject of ARMS, if its not Spring Man, i feel like it would be Max Brass

I honestly feel as though Ribbon Girl is the next most likely as she was promoted nearly as much, and after that, Dr. Coyle, who is the real main antagonist and has a much better theme, might I add. In all seriousness, it would be a good opportunity to pad the female characters a bit because Nintendo is really lacking. They did well last time, but half of them were "choice" characters. The number of pure females is still quite low and, I have not done this myself, but likely can be counted on one hand.

Edit - Apparently there are seven. But one is a clone that and the other is a third-party character, and therefore not Nintendo. But I guess you can just replace her with Jigglypuff if you want to assume genders and still get the same result.

 

[Camc10]

I honestly feel as though Ribbon Girl is the next most likely as she was promoted nearly as much, and after that, Dr. Coyle, who is the real main antagonist and has a much better theme, might I add. In all seriousness, it would be a good opportunity to pad the female characters a bit because Nintendo is really lacking. They did well last time, but half of them were "choice" characters. The number of pure females is still quite low and, I have not done this myself, but likely can be counted on one hand.

Edit - Apparently there are seven. But one is a clone that and the other is a third-party character, and therefore not Nintendo. But I guess you can just replace her with Jigglypuff if you want to assume genders and still get the same result.

Dr. Coyle is the "villian", but everything she has done (Make Helix, Hedlok, Springtron, bring back Master Mummy to the dead, and sebjecting herself to experiments) are for 2 reasons. A obsession for ARMS, and a Vendetta against Max Brass. For as little story as ARMS has, Max Brass is kinda the "Hero", of it, depending on how you view his former relationship with Dr. Coyle.

 

[zauberdragon]

I wouldn’t be that opposed to two arms reps. It’s a Nintendo series, on the console the new game is releasing on and has some really unique and interesting characters.
As long as they’re not clones that is. Not going to happen but imagine a stealthy ninjara and bruiser master mummy, for example. Food for thought

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I really do not like it when not just Smash, but any game blocks off content from the player. Within the series, Super Smash Bros. on 64 is the biggest offender here, in which they lock off use of Battlefield, Final Destination, and Meta Crystal.

Like c'mon, people would wanna play on those stages. Don't make us hack for it.

Exactly. It's like people already do it, so the devs might as well make it easy for them. Have a mode that's separated from the game's records where you can just mess around for fun.

In Melee, the debug mode let you make characters as big as you want, as dark or light as you want, make Metal characters face Giant characters, play as Giga Bowser versus four other characters. People are already doing all of these things on YouTube. A mandated Debug Mode could possibly be one of the biggest selling points of this game.

I don't think anything pissed me off more as a child than not being able to unlock Metal Mario in Super Smash Bros 64. Or Blue Yoshi.

 

[Morbi]

Dr. Coyle is the "villian", but everything she has done (Make Helix, Hedlok, Springtron, bring back Master Mummy to the dead, and sebjecting herself to experiments) are for 2 reasons. A obsession for ARMS, and a Vendetta against Max Brass. For as little story as ARMS has, Max Brass is kinda the "Hero", of it, depending on how you view his former relationship with Dr. Coyle.

Do not get me wrong, Max Brass would be sick. I definitely want him. I just feel as though they are going to go on the generic side and Max Brass is a bit less known to people who have never bought the game. Ribbon Girl is right there on all of the marketing material.

I wouldn’t be that opposed to two arms reps. It’s a Nintendo series, on the console the new game is releasing on and has some really unique and interesting characters.
As long as they’re not clones that is. Not going to happen but imagine a stealthy ninjara and bruiser master mummy, for example. Food for thought

Neither would I, fam, neither would I. Those designs are off the chain.

 

[Curious Villager]

I think a more in depth special Smash can help out with that. Let us be able to adjust every player character depending on every players own preference rather than restricting everyone on a specific mode, so one player can have a giant metal curry character while the other can have a tiny heavy flower character and whatnot

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think a more in depth special Smash can help out with that. Let us be able to adjust every player character depending on every players own preference rather than restricting everyone on a specific mode, so one player can have a giant metal curry character while the other can have a tiny heavy flower character and whatnot

I've always wanted to play as Metal Mario, so yes.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Expect cuts. Hope for none.

We have no evidence there won't be any cuts or any knowledge on how much Smash Switch is using from Sm4sh other than speculation.

If there won't be any cuts, it will be a pleasant surprise. Expecting them will make it less disappointing of a potential inevitability.

If its a half/engine port which its looking like it will be, I doubt any 1st party cuts are happening.

 

[Morbi]

I've always wanted to play as Metal Mario, so yes.

What you do is, you pick Mario, and then, you pick up a metal box.

 

[Louie G.]

I would honestly really dig two ARMS characters. Spring Man is a near guarantee by now, if they were gonna add a second character I think Helix just screams unique and fun potential.

 

[Chandeelure]

I don't know why, but I think Helix is disgusting and weird.

I hate it.

Also, yeah, I think we will get just Spring Man/Ribbon Girl or both.
I can't see the others getting in tbh.

 

[Camc10]

Also, no one EVER brings up Spring Man having a Springtron alt for some reason.

 

[Morbi]

Also, no one EVER brings up Spring Man having a Springtron alt for some reason.

He could be the new Wario. Have different color schemes for each version. If Spring Girl is an alt, he can be the new Little Mac... Which is definitely fitting.

 

[Deleted member]

Arms representation, I'd love too see Spring Man but that's the obvious choice. I wouldn't mind Ribbon Girl, Ninjra, or Master Mummy instead, any one of them including Spring Man would be great! Or they go include an odd out of world character like Helix considering Super Smash Bros. is wacky and crazy the DNA creation would fit right in.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I think Spring Man is highly likely to make the cut, either with the base roster or DLC.

I think it's unlikely we'd see Ribbon Girl or any other ARMS character in Spring Man's place or in addition to him.

I do think it's possible for Ribbon Girl to become an alt of Spring Man, but if not, a Springton alt or color pallet is possible.

 

[Morbi]

I think Spring Man is highly likely to make the cut, either with the base roster or DLC.

I think it's unlikely we'd see Ribbon Girl or any other ARMS character in Spring Man's place or in addition to him.

I do think it's possible for Ribbon Girl to become an alt of Spring Man, but if not, a Springton alt or color pallet is possible.

If he does not make the base roster, he is basically first in line for DLC, in my opinion. If not, he is still more or less guaranteed. The haters should just accept it, really.

 

[papagenos]

I would honestly really dig two ARMS characters. Spring Man is a near guarantee by now, if they were gonna add a second character I think Helix just screams unique and fun potential.

I’m not nearly as sure about an arms character as everyone else seems to be. I’m in no way opposed to them but, while sakurai adds new characters from the current console for already represented franchises (robin greninja etc...) sakurai has NEVER added a new series unless it’s at least one console back: olimar (GameCube) doesn’t show up until brawl (Wii) Wii fit trainer, Miis (Wii) don’t appear until smash4 (Wiiu) and now inklings (Wiiu) get their start in the New smash (switch). Now if years of smash speculation has taught me anything it’s that that there are no “rules” to who’s gets included and following patterns is often pointless HOWEVER this particular pattern makes some sense... adding a new Series to smash prematurely could be a very bad idea because instead of having to cut a character later down the road if The series doesn’t have any staying power and gets forgotten quickly sakurai will have to cut an entire series (character stages assistrophy ect...), something I assume he wants to avoid. This happened with snake but that was a third party character and a special circumstance. Now arms is very popular and seems like it will be a worth while Nintendo franchise with future sequels and will be remembered fondly, it’s not guaranteed and I could see sakurai waiting til next time or even DLC to make sure a year or two after release it’s still popular the way splatoon has remained popular and gotten a sequel ect... I wouldn’t be surprised at an arms character but I’m much less sure they’d are a shoe-in like everyone thinks for this reason.