Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NintenRob]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

But I can easily see people getting upset over something shown in his moveset. The longer you play the game, the more that he has to offer

 

[BluePikmin11]

I made a post in the Roster Prediction Thread, it contains all of the reasonings (written for RTC) for why I think certain newcomers will be in Smash for Switch. Might come in handy if you are really into speculating.

 

[Staarih]

If nothing else, gotta give props for Rex and Pyra for always stirring up a disussion, be it about spoilers or design or timing haha.

Then again, speculation is running thin. Please let us have something before E3.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well if Pyra DOES appear she's gonna get a changed design. If Bayonetta needed added leggings then Pyra ABSOLUTELY needs to change

 

[Freduardo]

On topic for Rex and pyra, but off topic for Smash:

I’m just starting to play the other characters in Xenoblade (primarily Zeke as he fills the same party role Rex does in my team). It really brings wishes that this game had multi screen internet multiplayer and I could actually set up a party. And I think when I get to new game plus I’m going to essentially just play constant Tora.

-

On topic for Smash:

So I think I’m the only one who likes the ancient minister and the primids.... any thoughts on how these guys can return to the game?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

On topic for Smash:

So I think I’m the only one who likes the ancient minister and the primids.... any thoughts on how these guys can return to the game?

I mean technically Ancient Minister never left since we still have ROB.

 

[NintenRob]

Yeah, Ancient Minister was definitely a highlight in Brawl. His unveiling was definitely one of the best moments in the story.

R.O.B. main and proud

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm ready to reveal my next prediction roster. I'm not exactly certain of one addition until I do more research. But here:

Let me know what you think.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

So how do people feel about kid Icarus getting a 4th rep? Personally, I think Magnus has a decent shot. He was a AT in smash 4, and was even playable in Uprising. I think if we were to lose cloud for whatever reason, he could function as a sort of cloud clone. Or give him a new moveset, Idk I just want magnus lol

 

[Pacack]

So how do people feel about kid Icarus getting a 4th rep? Personally, I think Magnus has a decent shot. He was a AT in smash 4, and was even playable in Uprising. I think if we were to lose cloud for whatever reason, he could function as a sort of cloud clone. Or give him a new moveset, Idk I just want magnus lol

I would be surprised to see a new Kid Icarus character, especially if it wasn't Medusa.

 

[DJ3DS]

I'm ready to reveal my next prediction roster. I'm not exactly certain of one addition until I do more research. But here:

Let me know what you think.

I would personally be very disappointed with the roster. No new Zelda or Metroid is sad, no KKR is sad (though at least you have Dixie) and strangely many Animal Crossing characters.

This said I'm not commenting on the likeliness; I tried to stop playing that particular game after Sm4sh.

 

[Lyndis_]

I would be so happy to get Hades as KI's villain character.

Medusa is OK, but they've got nowhere near as much personality as Hades does.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

I dunno, I just don't see KI getting a villain seeing how we haven't grabbed KKR or Ridley yet. Did hades or Medusa appear in smash outside of trophies? I'm not too up to date on the items in 4 lol.

I'm pretty sure magnus' moveset would write itself too. His AT had quite a few moves

 

[JustCallMeJon]

While look at the Smash Invitation 2018 at Nintendo E3 site, a description caught my eye as it says:

"Join the party as players from around the world battle in this invitational tournament for bragging rights, for fun, and for glory on Nintendo Switch!"

The word for fun and for glory is pretty interesting. If you haven't notice, in online, there are two modes, for fun and for glory. For fun is for the casuals while for glory is for the competitive smashers. The way they said that has me wondering, will they have a separate casual and competitve bracket in this tournament or will they combine the casual and competitve ruleset like they did in the previous Smash Invitational? Time will ever tell.

 

[Cosmic77]

So how do people feel about kid Icarus getting a 4th rep? Personally, I think Magnus has a decent shot. He was a AT in smash 4, and was even playable in Uprising. I think if we were to lose cloud for whatever reason, he could function as a sort of cloud clone. Or give him a new moveset, Idk I just want magnus lol

Even with Sakurai's love for Uprising, I can't imagine any reasonable scenario where KI would get a newcomer. The series is already niche enough as is, and it's been dormant for nearly six years now. Personally, I think development time should be spent on franchises that have been more active in recent years, particularly those who need a newcomer even more than KI (DK and Metroid are preferable).

A new stage for KI doesn't seem unlikely though. We might get a new Uprising stage with possibly one of the two new stages from Smash 4 returning as well.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I doubt Kid Icarus will get a fourth rep in Smash 5.

And if it does, it will be Viridi. Magus is also pretty likely.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I really hope the ARMS rep isn't Spring Man......but it likely will be.

Why not? He could be one of the most unique and interesting newcomer characters in Switch, being sort of like Dhalsim.

It seems that him getting in would upset a lot of people, and that alone would dampen his inclusion for me.

Spring Man would get no more backlash than . Of course, the only character listed here that got an overall negative reception was Dark Pit with everyone else at worse being merely polarizing, if not fairly well-received. And given that Spring Man is in no way comparable to Dark Pit, he'll most likely be more well received than hated if he were to be playable. Whilst there will be people who complain about Spring Man, there more common response in the scenario he were playable would be something like "Well, of course he's the only sane choice for an ARMS rep. Not having him as the first ARMS character is like not having Marth be the first Fire Emblem character. Why on earth would you want anything else?" Don't underestimate the power of Smash altering the perception of whether or not a character is logical/popular/deserving/great.

My only problem with Spring Man, honestly, is just that he gives me serious Little Mac vibes from a design standpoint somehow.

Nah, Little Mac has more of a stereotypical western comic book aesthetic, whereas Spring Man looks more like Archie with toothpaste hair.

Also, Bayonetta being "casual" is the last thing anyone should say about her. She didn't get in because old ladies and young kids were the silent majority. Rather, her dedicated fans voted her in in large enough numbers, granted considering unrealizable characters, to get her a spot.

Given the nature of her franchise, as well as the fact her best selling game being around 1 million copies, people cannot say she is a "casual" favourite.

Ah, then perhaps it does have a Fire Emblem situation waiting to happen. I just really hope it doesn't end having too many characters too soon because of it's success. I felt that kind of happened with FE last time.

If Sakurai gets accused of Xenoblade bias, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Pacack]

I'm ready to reveal my next prediction roster. I'm not exactly certain of one addition until I do more research. But here:

Let me know what you think.

- I'm confused by the lack of Captain Toad
- While I understand your perspective on transformations, I'm not inclined to believe they are returning based on Sakurai's comments.
- Personally, I would argue Bandana Dee should be included.
- I appreciate your willingness to include a new Animal Crossing character, but I would argue that only one would make the cut unless one of them is a clone.
- I would be extremely surprised to see Pokemon Trainer return, especially if we get a new Pokemon character on top of that.
- Based on the wording of Sakurai's comment on him, I don't think Heihachi (spelling?) was or would be seriously considered.
- I would be surprised to see an ARMS character make the base roster considering that Sakurai wouldn't have known how successful the game would be. I see him as DLC.
- While I'm less averse to the idea of getting Rex in the base roster for the same reasons as above, I do understand where that one's coming from. I urge you to consider Elma as a serious alternative.

+ No needless cuts is a bold, but solid prediction.
+ No cut Fire Emblem characters is good.
+ Wolf.
+ Animal Crossing newcomer.
+ New historical rep, which most people don't know to include.
+ Takamaru
+ Ice Climbers
+ While I'd rather see a different Rhythm Heaven character, I appreciate the prediction of one.
+ New third parties is good, though I'd argue that Bomberman is a more likely inclusion than Heihachi by far.
+ A Nindy is a solid prediction, though I'm not convinced absolutely that they fulfill the criteria for third parties (namely, history).

Overall, a solid roster in its newcomer predictions, with a good balance between expected and surprising newcomers. My biggest criticism is the inclusion of Pokemon Trainer given that he's two character's worth of time added to an already oversaturated series. Even if transformations return, I do not expect to see the return of Ivysaur and Squirtle, especially alongside a Pokemon newcomer.

A bit of an aside, but the placement of Samus on your roster is boggling. Maybe put her back near Zelda and Kid Icarus?

 

[Cosmic77]

If Sakurai gets accused of Xenoblade bias, I wouldn't be surprised.

I don't think we really need to worry about that. With my limited knowledge of Xenoblade, I don't think there are many characters that would work well as a Shulk or Rex/Pyra clone. Plus, there probably aren't any future Xenoblade games coming out soon, so the odds of Xenoblade getting a promotional DLC character is slim. The only way there could be an oversaturation of Xenoblade characters is if two or more unique characters get added on the base roster, or if fan demand causes a character to get added in DLC. I don't see either as being likely.

Stages, items, and trophies however... Can't predict that if I tried.

 

[Bowserlick]

Rex can have a clone of himself.

On the character select screen you can pick Rex. Two women are behind him.
One as a silhouette and one colored in.
Once you pick Rex, you can toggle between the blade you want to pick.

The blade acts as a partner that is regulated to the Z-Axis (where characters roll and side-step).

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If Sakurai gets accused of Xenoblade bias, I wouldn't be surprised.

Well to fair, Mother at a grand Total of 3 games (and one remake) has two characters so that shouldn't be a problem. Then again, some people think that Lucas is too much.

 

[Ivander]

Well if Pyra DOES appear she's gonna get a changed design. If Bayonetta needed added leggings then Pyra ABSOLUTELY needs to change

Aren't you thinking of Palutena and Female Corrin? Last time I checked, the only thing added to Bayonetta was her body getting covered up more when using her weave attacks.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Let's take a moment to reflect on how much the DLC for Smash For changed the landscape of speculation by shattering many preconceptions.

1. Mewtwo: "There won't be DLC"
2. Lucas: "It was only Mewtwo"
3. Roy: "They won't add a veteran from an overrepresened series"
4. Ryu: "No fighting game characters (Punch Out doesn't count because reasons)" AND "Only one character per company"
5. Cloud: "No new companies will get in on this" AND "They must have debuted on a Nintendo System/Arcade" AND "He'll be in Playstation All Stars first"
6. Corrin: "They won't add a newcomer to an overrepresented series"
7. Bayonetta: "I think I have a good idea of who won the ballot" AND "Bayonetta is too mature for Smash Bros"

I wonder what we'd be speculating if the DLC never happened. We'd still have all gotten Inkling as first character but just about everything else would be different.

I think that DLC is going to be a wild card of sorts, once again. With the previous game being the first in the series to utilize it, most of the downloadable characters having very little in common with any of the others, and, as you pointed out, so many preconceptions and misconceptions being destroyed with the arrival of each new DLC character, there's no telling what DLC will bring in this time.

I think the one thing about DLC that we can safely bet on is that it will be apart of the next game. Time will tell what specific characters or any other content it's going to brings us in this entry.

 

[DBPirate]

Well to fair, Mother at a grand Total of 3 games (and one remake) has two characters so that shouldn't be a problem. Then again, some people think that Lucas is too much.

Well, Mother has been dormant for nearly 20 years so I wouldn’t say that’s a fair comparison.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

As for why the clones are cut. Simple, clones are always first to get cut.

No. It's not simple. That doesn't make any sense. They take no time to develop. The whole point of cutting characters is time constraints. On the other hand, they are the only ones cut. Characters get cut because there's not enough time to add them. What about Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Mewtwo? Those aren't clones.

This is totally illogical. If clones are always the first to get cut, then how come they came back? How come we have Dr. Mario, but not Lucas, Wolf, or Mewtwo if clones are always the first to get cut?

This is a rhetorical question by the way.

 

[Burruni]

Well if Pyra DOES appear she's gonna get a changed design. If Bayonetta needed added leggings then Pyra ABSOLUTELY needs to change

Both Xenoblade 2 and Smash WiiU are Pegi12.
Just throwing that out there.

 

[Cosmic77]

So here's some good news for Kirby fans. Star Allies had the best launch week for a Kirby game in Japan since Super Star Ultra in 2008, selling over 220,000 copies. In the UK, Star Allies debuted at #2 and is currently the fastest selling Kirby game in UK's history. This especially impressive since Nintendo has a history of struggling to get sales in the UK. It's been a pretty good week for the pink puffball.

This success may or may not have come out in time for it to influence Sakurai's plans for Smash, but least these numbers provide more proof that the Kirby series is still going strong. Who knows? Maybe Sakurai could surprise us with Bandana Dee as a newcomer or maybe even a modern Kirby stage.

 

[Chandeelure]

So here's some good news for Kirby fans. Star Allies had the best launch week for a Kirby game in Japan since Super Star Ultra in 2008, selling over 220,000 copies. In the UK, Star Allies debuted at #2 and is currently the fastest selling Kirby game in UK's history. This especially impressive since Nintendo has a history of struggling to get sales in the UK. It's been a pretty good week for the pink puffball.

This success may or may not have come out in time for it to influence Sakurai's plans for Smash, but least these numbers provide more proof that the Kirby series is still going strong. Who knows? Maybe Sakurai could surprise us with Bandana Dee as a newcomer or maybe even a modern Kirby stage.

This pretty much confirms we will get 10 Kirby newcomers.

Also, Ridley.

 

[Lyndis_]

Well, Mother has been dormant for nearly 20 years so I wouldn’t say that’s a fair comparison.

You're almost a decade off there.

 

[DBPirate]

You're almost a decade off there.

My mistake. I thought Mother 3 released in 2001 for some reason.

Even so, that’s a fair reason for Mother only having 2 characters in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

- While I understand your perspective on transformations, I'm not inclined to believe they are returning based on Sakurai's comments

When did he say anything that implied that?

 

[Cosmic77]

No. It's not simple. That doesn't make any sense. They take no time to develop. The whole point of cutting characters is time constraints. On the other hand, they are the only ones cut. Characters get cut because there's not enough time to add them. What about Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Mewtwo? Those aren't clones.

This is totally illogical. If clones are always the first to get cut, then how come they came back? How come we have Dr. Mario, but not Lucas, Wolf, or Mewtwo if clones are always the first to get cut?

This is a rhetorical question by the way.

Historically, clones don't have the best track record of returning in Smash games.


Out of the six newcomer clones in Melee (), only two returned for Brawl (technically three since Toon Link was intended to be a replacement of sorts).

Out of the three newcomer semi-clones in Brawl (), only one returned on the base roster for Smash 4. Since DLC was originally going to be limited to just Mewtwo, there was a point in time where Lucas and Roy weren't planned to be in Smash 4 at all.


People who say clones are the first to go aren't necessarily wrong here, and those who speculate that the clones in Smash 4 could get cut are probably just going off the cuts from previous Smash games, not because they have a personal distaste for Dr. Mario and Dark Pit. I don't think it's illogical thinking in any way.

 

[Lyndis_]

When did he say anything that implied that?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/gamera...s-3ds-wii-u-no-transformations-explained/amp/

 

[True Blue Warrior]

No. It's not simple. That doesn't make any sense. They take no time to develop. The whole point of cutting characters is time constraints. On the other hand, they are the only ones cut. Characters get cut because there's not enough time to add them. What about Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Mewtwo? Those aren't clones.

This is totally illogical. If clones are always the first to get cut, then how come they came back? How come we have Dr. Mario, but not Lucas, Wolf, or Mewtwo if clones are always the first to get cut?

This is a rhetorical question by the way.

It's really because of the fan assumption that clones are always low priority and non-clones Nintendo characters are safe. An assumption that already was contradicted with Falco being higher priority than Mewtwo in Brawl and Toon Link (the only Brawl clone newcomer) being higher priority in Smash 4 than Ivysaur, Squirtle (if ZSS could return in spite of transformations being cut, so could they), Wolf and Lucas.

 

[Lyndis_]

I'd like some more unique Final Smash moves this time. I think Lucas should get his Brawl one back (to differentiate him from Ness) and both Link/Toon Link deserve new unique ones.

Does anyone else have Final Smash attacks they'd like to see changed?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Historically, clones don't have the best track record of returning in Smash games.


Out of the six newcomer clones in Melee (), only two returned for Brawl (technically three since Toon Link was intended to be a replacement of sorts).

Out of the three newcomer semi-clones in Brawl (), only one returned on the base roster for Smash 4. Since DLC was originally going to be limited to just Mewtwo, there was a point in time where Lucas and Roy weren't planned to be in Smash 4 at all.


People who say clones are the first to go aren't necessarily wrong here, and those who speculate that the clones in Smash 4 could get cut are probably just going off the cuts from previous Smash games, not because they have a personal distaste for Dr. Mario and Dark Pit. I don't think it's illogical thinking in any way.

I'm inclined to agree, especially with 4's close clones . When a clone returns they have an additional challenge, changing them to feel different while not completely reoworking them/breaking them. Lucina has a thing going to her with her balanced blade and higher shield damage but DP... it felt like the Final Smash was the only part of him that was given enough time.

I hate to see any character cut (I'm that guy who mourns for ) but it's likely.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's really because of the fan assumption that clones are always low priority and non-clones Nintendo characters are safe. An assumption that already was contradicted with Falco being higher priority than Mewtwo in Brawl and Toon Link (the only Brawl clone newcomer) being higher priority in Smash 4 than Ivysaur, Squirtle (if ZSS could return in spite of transformations being cut, so could they), Wolf and Lucas.

To be fair, Star Fox didn't have nearly as many fallback options as Pokemon. Since Wolf was added late in Brawl's development, Sakurai probably thought Falco would be the only other Star Fox character, which might have made him a higher priority.

As for Pokemon Trainer, bringing back all three Pokemon wasn't really necessary, especially when Charizard was far more iconic and the franchise had plenty of room to grow in the future. Cutting Sheik or ZSS would have been a bad decision, especially since neither franchise received a newcomer in Smash 4.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

To be fair, Star Fox didn't have nearly as many fallback options as Pokemon. Since Wolf was added late in Brawl's development, Sakurai probably thought Falco would be the only other Star Fox character, which might have made him a higher priority.

As for Pokemon Trainer, bringing back all three Pokemon wasn't really necessary, especially when Charizard was far more iconic and the franchise had plenty of room to grow in the future. Cutting Sheik or ZSS would have been a bad decision, especially since neither franchise received a newcomer in Smash 4.

I mean, that's all fair and well, but it doesn't do anything to contradict the idea that Sakurai has no real problems prioritizing clones over non clone characters and thus the fan assumption still doesn't fundamentally work.

If anything, the most "obvious" characters to get cut due to priority would be the characters who already got cut because of being low priority and (in two of the cases) only managed to come back as DLC in spite of their fan demand for the base game. I'm talking of course about.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Listing for a new Nintendo game incoming. About Eclairs?

I'm not sure how relevant it is for Smash but hey, I won't object to fighting on a giant chocolate eclair for a DLC stage.

 

[Bandana Dee3]

Can we get some villain stages (Bowser's Castle , Dedede's Boxing Ring, etc.)
In the new Game?
I know this sounds like begging but still think they need some of them.